Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

[MBlaze]

http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=406

To all of you guys who supports Brawl+ and haven't joined the Brawl+ Brigade plz do it now.

We need all the support we can get.

We should post this on Brawl Tactical Disscussion.

 

[Revven]

Hey guys, I just had ANOTHER thought.

What if instead of trying to change the physics of the game or the gravity to make kills occur earlier, how about making the death boundaries smaller on the sides and up the top? This still allows for ridiculous recovery but, people will die earlier just like they do on the Melee stages (although they are TOO small... something between would be nice).

It's something to try if it's possible, but, I doubt it'll be small at all in lines. This is of course, if all else fails for making people die earlier.

 

[genki]

I think that might break more than it fixes...

 

[MuBa]

Hey guys, I just had ANOTHER thought.

What if instead of trying to change the physics of the game or the gravity to make kills occur earlier, how about making the death boundaries smaller on the sides and up the top? This still allows for ridiculous recovery but, people will die earlier just like they do on the Melee stages (although they are TOO small... something between would be nice).

It's something to try if it's possible, but, I doubt it'll be small at all in lines. This is of course, if all else fails for making people die earlier.

That's not a bad idea but what I'm worried about is having separate codes for each stages (although we can fix that by manipulating only tournament-worthy stages)

Plus like you said, we don't know how many lines of code that requires.

 

[Eten]

Did we need to make kills occur sooner? I didn't know that was a problem. I mean, you can play Luigi(not even one of the elite tournament winning character) and KO D3(the heaviest character) off the top at 98%.

It's not KO potential that'st he issue on the duration of time before a KO, it's the campy nature of the game itself do the to the lack of momentum in a fight. Snake has no problem killing with utilt, etc. it's just that it takes so long as you camp with explosives, building up that damage.

 

[Revven]

I think that might break more than it fixes...

Nahh, it won't. The stages themselves would still be the same size, so you'd still have that big space to recover from. The death boundaries would just be closer to a certain point so they die earlier. Like, for example, if Snake is at 150% and it's FD and Pikachu does an Fsmash, that SHOULD TOTALLY kill him, amirite? Yes, it should, sad thing is it doesn't because the Snake SDIs and of course survives. If the boundaries were to be made closer, then that Snake would die. Have you ever thought that someone was about to die but, they don't? Like, they're SO close to the boundary that they barely survive? Doesn't that anger you at least a little? Well, my idea is to fix that and make them closer so they WILL die at that 130% or at that 110%.

The problem with the Melee stages is that they're much smaller in size, their recovery sections are just too **** narrow, like Corneria for example. The part on the right side compared to the actual Melee Corneria stage is MUCH too small for Brawl characters to come back at 90%. I don't want to make the boundaries THAT small, bigger than that but smaller than they currently are (because they are WAY too far away in comparison) and I believe that's ONE of the problems that contributes to Brawl's floatyness, even the ceilings are too far away, only like 6 moves will Star KO under 100%, the rest fail to do so. If this was fixed, either making the ceilings lower or making all three boundaries closer to the stage, it would accommodate for earlier kills and we'd still retain the same gravity and floatyness that Brawl is known for, people would just die earlier which is what we want when we've done an epic combo that SHOULD kill at that 90%.

Someone shouldn't be able to survive a knee at 80%, that's just ********.

 

[genki]

Nahh, it won't. The stages themselves would still be the same size, so you'd still have that big space to recover from. The death boundaries would just be closer to a certain point so they die earlier. Like, for example, if Snake is at 150% and it's FD and Pikachu does an Fsmash, that SHOULD TOTALLY kill him, amirite? Yes, it should, sad thing is it doesn't because the Snake SDIs and of course survives. If the boundaries were to be made closer, then that Snake would die. Have you ever thought that someone was about to die but, they don't? Like, they're SO close to the boundary that they barely survive? Doesn't that anger you at least a little? Well, my idea is to fix that and make them closer so they WILL die at that 130% or at that 110%.

The problem with the Melee stages is that they're much smaller in size, their recovery sections are just too **** narrow, like Corneria for example. The part on the right side compared to the actual Melee Corneria stage is MUCH too small for Brawl characters to come back at 90%. I don't want to make the boundaries THAT small, bigger than that but smaller than they currently are (because they are WAY too far away in comparison) and I believe that's ONE of the problems that contributes to Brawl's floatyness, even the ceilings are too far away, only like 6 moves will Star KO under 100%, the rest fail to do so. If this was fixed, either making the ceilings lower or making all three boundaries closer to the stage, it would accommodate for earlier kills and we'd still retain the same gravity and floatyness that Brawl is known for, people would just die earlier which is what we want when we've done an epic combo that SHOULD kill at that 90%.

Someone shouldn't be able to survive a knee at 80%, that's just ********.

I see where you're coming from, and if they could pull it off it would be dope. But I'm still skeptical something about it just sounds alittle off...

 

[cultofrubik]

Lets point out a few things here. Coding is limited. Therefore the things we do to alter the game must also be limited. It's best to avoid competitive coding for specific characters or specific anything per se, as obviously those kinds of codes could very well add up to the limit faster than one prefers.

The primal goal in these competitive hacks is to come up with a consensus on the most general aspects of the game to modify. It's more efficient to increase the damage ratio or knockback than to change the ceilings of specific levels for example.

As much as I really wish Charizard and Squirtle could be wholly their own characters without stamina issues, it just doesn't help the cause for these limitations. Of course, if we could eliminate the limit, then we could literally do whatever we want. But that's besides the point of relevancy for Brawl+ talks today.

We seek to make this a true Smash game - with an added excitement to the mix of things via combo ability and a faster game speed.

To meet these needs, these are some of the changes we are directing towards.

No Tripping is a no-brainer.
Lag canceling [Any agreed up form is fine.]
Hitstun
Melee Air Dodge and Wavedashing [Probably the only debatable code on the first page at the moment.]
Possibly a gravity change [This one depends on basically everything else]
Dash Dancing
Crouch Canceling [Well, maybe.]

We seek to diminish the "camping" gameplay. We seek to add combos. We seek to add the awesomeness that characterized the Real Smash games before. Our limited coding must resemble these general ideas.

My point is that our discussions should reflect our goal. Better organized conference might lead to better insight.

 

[The Great Leon]

when i first saw these re-codes i was a bit skeptical

but im pleasantly surprised by the professionalism found here

 

[MuBa]

Gravity code is a must if we want to have a more exciting Brawl+

By the way what gravity are you guys using anyway?

I have 3F900000 on mine and it works pretty darn good.

 

[leafgreen386]

Excellent post cultofrubik/blankuser15.

As for gravity... for those without access to a decimal/hex converter, 3F900000 is 1.125x gravity. I'm currently using 1.175x gravity, which is 3F966666. It's a great balance imo. It increases the grav nicely, improving the combo and edgeguard games (and just general gamespeed) without nerfing recoveries too badly. Some do get nerfed, but they're still usable, and no worse than recoveries were in melee. I wouldn't wanna increase it much more than that, though, because then recoveries start getting nerfed pretty badly.

 

[eet]

so can anyone explain how to implement the gravity hack? I understand its in hex, i just dont get what i need to put for the code content to edit it in ocarinas code manager >>

 

[leafgreen386]

Here's a link to the grav codes:

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=5648248&postcount=14

 

[cultofrubik]

I wonder if this can be made to be Wi-fi compatible. It desynchs far too much.

EDIT:

While using the updated Melee Air Dodge, S-Cancelling, Grav at 1.175, Hitstun 1.1, Desynching was inevitable.


The lack of the Melee Air Dodge ALLOWS Wi-fi play. Perhaps this could be fixed so it too can work?

 

[Imainlowtier]

Changes to the physics engine probably can't be fixed to not cause desynch.

 

[MuBa]

there are 2 versions of the wavedash code. One by PW and the other by kupo.

Use the PW wavedash. That might be the reason why you guys are desynching online.

 

[leafgreen386]

We are using the one by PW... =/

We're using the very latest one made by PW, actually - the one fixed to work with the hitstun code. I dunno why it's desyncing so much, but the melee AD code is definitely the cause for it.

 

[Phantom Wings]

I just thought I'd point out that the latest version of the Air Dodge code has been rendered irrelevant with the latest update for the hitstun code. So anyone who's posted the version as of October 29(?) please delete that post to avoid confusion on the boards.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I applaud Leaf's revelation on increased percent simulation, and I think it should be looked at. But even while reading that, another good idea popped into my head...

Leaf mentioned move decay in his post, and it hit me: why don't we use move decay to help us out with our combo project? We could try a hack that defaults every move to max decay. This would cause less knockback while leaving hitstun alone, right? Combine that with the hitstun code, and we could create that combo environment we've been aiming for! I'll admit that I don't really know much about move decay, and it's possible that it also effects hitstun. Some research needs to be done, but it seems like a fairly low-line code that could at least be tested.

You probably immediately considered this problem, though: If we are decreasing knockback, we're increasing survivability, so that might not be a good idea in the first place. The addition of gravity would increase bottom deaths, but top and side deaths would be a lot harder with max decay. Perhaps there is a way to have the code only active during the lower percents. In other words, set it up so that it only effects hits below, say, 50%. After 50, normal decay would resume, which would put kills back to normal while increasing low percent comboability.

Aside from the kill problem, there is one BIG advantage if this could be pulled off: it would nerf a few of DDD's infinites! If you recall, DDD's infinites on Luigi, Mario and Samus stop working after 5 throws because the move decay, for some reason, actually pushes them farther instead of closer. If max decay is on at all times, DDD won't be able to infinite them at all. If normal decay kicks in around 50, that still 50% where you don't have to worry about the infinite.

What I DON'T know is how decay effects the other grabs in the game. I'm pretty sure there are no infinites that become possible because of decay, but you never know.

At any rate, what do you guys think? Worth a try?

 

[Wind Owl]

Someone catch me up on what's been happening so I can update the OP.

 

[zxeon]

I'm lost too. What's going on now?

 

[leafgreen386]

Well, PW came out with v1.2 for hitstun:

[b]Hitstun[/b]:(29 lines)[Phantom Wings]
80000000 80623320
80000001 00000000
60000006 00000000
60000003 00000001
4A001000 00000000
4A101001 00000000
32000000 0000001C
36000000 00000032
58010000 00000004
DE000000 80008180
58010000 00000060
DE000000 80008180
92210002 00000070
58010000 0000007C
34000038 00000042
36000038 00000046
4A001002 00000000
58010000 00000024
58010000 0000000C
1400001C 00000088
14000018 00000088
E2000002 00000000
80100001 00000008
62000000 00000001
E200000F 00000000
80000001 00000000
80100000 00000244
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

[I had the melee AD code here before, but after seeing PW's post I see we can just disregard that]

Also this thread needs to link to the gravity discussion thread. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201239

And here are the grav mod codes for the first post:

Gravity modifier (P1)
4A000000 90180F20
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Gravity modifier (P2)
4A000000 90180F7C
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Gravity modifier (P3)
4A000000 90180FD8
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

Gravity modifier (P4)
4A000000 90181034
140000E0 XXXXXXXX
E0000000 80008000

[i]To find what value to put in the Xs, use the decimal to hex converter found here: 
[url]http://babbage.cs.qc.edu/IEEE-754/Decimal.html[/url][/i]

Whether we actually end up changing the gravity or not, it doesn't matter. This should still be up there for now.

 

[MuBa]

Wait...there's yet ANOTHER version of hitstun?

 

[leafgreen386]

Yes. He came out with a third version shortly after releasing the second.

 

[kupo15]

there are 2 versions of the wavedash code. One by PW and the other by kupo.

Use the PW wavedash. That might be the reason why you guys are desynching online.

Since when did I come out with a wavedash code? I never did lol

 

[Wildfire393]

How much has the hitstun code been tested? It seems to me that there are some combos that are nearly inescapable pre-hitstun code that would almost certainly be inescapable with the histun code on. Especially given increased gravity. For one, Sheik's Ftilt lock. With higher gravity and increased hitstun, I'm fairly certain it becomes like a 0-90% on just about every character in the game, guarnteed.

 

[M15t3R E]

=0

How much has the hitstun code been tested? It seems to me that there are some combos that are nearly inescapable pre-hitstun code that would almost certainly be inescapable with the histun code on. Especially given increased gravity. For one, Sheik's Ftilt lock. With higher gravity and increased hitstun, I'm fairly certain it becomes like a 0-90% on just about every character in the game, guarnteed.

And we cannot allow characters like Sheik or anyone else to become broken due to the hacks.
Increasing the ability of every character's DI might be necessary to compensate for things such as Sheik's f-tilt lock. I mean, combos are what we're looking for, but not a simply executed combo like that which does an absurd amount of damage.
Alternatively, and perhaps more easily, we could iron out the bugs by producing short coding specifically to modify moves such as Sheik's f-tilt to prevent brokenness.

 

[kupo15]

Add this to the collection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEgnGTG68gc

 

[Eten]

You amp up hitstun. Now imagine the end result is that most characters can carry a combo for an extra 30%. But you need to NERF SOME character's moves specifically because they were already using combos before the hitstun code? In effect, removing their version of getting that extra 30%, because they already had it(I think that's right).

If so, also look at nerfing:
Wario's Dair Dair Uair true combo.
Kirby's fthrow->uair->Fthrow->uair etc. combo
Kirby's, Luigi's, Mario's, Pikachu's, Fox's, etc... utilt combos.
There's a lot.

We can not allow these characters to become broken due to hacks.

 

[Alphabravo]

Awesome video. Were you using the gravity modifying code?

 

[MuBa]

Since when did I come out with a wavedash code? I never did lol

Lol at first you didn't cite who made the code sounded like you were the one who did it.
And 10 hours later you edited it lol.

 

[5ive]

You amp up hitstun. Now imagine the end result is that most characters can carry a combo for an extra 30%. But you need to NERF SOME character's moves specifically because they were already using combos before the hitstun code? In effect, removing their version of getting that extra 30%, because they already had it(I think that's right).

If so, also look at nerfing:
Wario's Dair Dair Uair true combo.
Kirby's fthrow->uair->Fthrow->uair etc. combo
Kirby's, Luigi's, Mario's, Pikachu's, Fox's, etc... utilt combos.
There's a lot.

We can not allow these characters to become broken due to hacks.

I don't know about using codes to nerf, but I somewhat agree on the fact that combos may outway gameplay if this gets out of hand.

 

[M15t3R E]

=]

The tier list for Brawl+ is going to need a complete makeover from regular Brawl.
Low tier characters like Ganon (in your vid) will now have devastating combos. Therefore, he and many others should move up on the tier list while few characters will seemingly become worse. It'll take a long time to create the official Brawl+ tier list even after we get a "perfect" hitstun code. The good thing is that this may all serve to also balance out the characters. That's killing 2 birds with 1 stone!

I don't know about using codes to nerf, but I somewhat agree on the fact that combos may outway gameplay if this gets out of hand.

Right. Our goal was to make certain strings of attacks that looks like they are close to inescapable, actually inescapable. Not to form easily executed, no skill devastating combos. Then we'll just have a new Brawl in which noobs can own. Back to square one for us in that situation. So let's be careful here.

 

[Eten]

I don't know about using codes to nerf, but I somewhat agree on the fact that combos may outway gameplay if this gets out of hand.

I'm actually being sarcastic.

 

[kupo15]

Awesome video. Were you using the gravity modifying code?

Thanks. No I did not use a gravity code

Lol at first you didn't cite who made the code sounded like you were the one who did it.
And 10 hours later you edited it lol.

lol, actually looking back, i did cite him, but missed the quotes making it look like I did it. So I just added the quotes....whoops :embarrass

 

[SketchHurricane]

Add this to the collection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEgnGTG68gc

You say those are the only super combos, so I'm assuming you experimented with everyone? And those could still be DI'ed out of by a human, correct (to a degree at least, because what we don't want is guaranteed 90% combos)? If so, the hitstun code is looking viable.

Also, no one likes my move decay idea?

 

[kupo15]

Yea, well, idk how much DI the lvl 9 was doing so im sure those combos arent set in stone. Your DI will prob make it harder. Also, that was in training which means the decay didn't come into effect which should help those combos out. I have tried practically everyone out and couldnt find anything quite like that but I still need to test. I found a little thing with ivy's Dthrow>Up b and Dthrow>utilt>uair>utilt>uair

Interesting idea, im not sure what to think about it atm

 

[SketchHurricane]

Yea, well, idk how much DI the lvl 9 was doing so im sure those combos arent set in stone. Your DI will prob make it harder. Also, that was in training which means the decay didn't come into effect which should help those combos out. I have tried practically everyone out and couldnt find anything quite like that but I still need to test. I found a little thing with ivy's Dthrow>Up b and Dthrow>utilt>uair>utilt>uair

Interesting idea, im not sure what to think about it atm

I just didn't want it to slip past with no consideration at all. If it sucks, have at me!

I could live with the combos being garenteed if they are at least made harder by DI. And I'm sure decay would further complicate things, so if you could really pull that off in a match, you deserve it! And that's what combos are all about, so in practice, the Smash combo system in general is a lot more rewarding than most other games, it seems!

 

[Zelc]

I haven't read the entire thread. If this was addressed already, I sincerely apologize (although maybe it deserves to be addressed a second time?).

With directional airdodges, you probably need to restrict people to one airdodge or everyone can recover easily by airdodging all the way back. So, airdodges are restricted to one. However, this could make several characters really really good. Pretty much everyone with a homing projectile would rock (Zelda!, Pit, Ivysaur?, maybe even Snake's nikita???), characters with long-ranged straight projectiles would improve (Falco, Wolf, etc.), and characters with multiple jumps would also improve significantly (Meta Knight, Pit, DDD, Kirby, Jigglypuff). These characters' edgeguards could be too good. Is there anything being done to address this?

 

[Kyd]

A Melee gravity (because Heavy Brawl just doesnt pull it off) would be good. Zelda's fire didnt have as strong of an effect on Melee so we should find out why and try t implement that.