Brawl by the Numbers: Roster Size

[PRINCESS PEACH 777]

40 or at least 42

 

[brawlpro]

well i want like 45, i said 40 cause 38 is too small

 

[Knyaguy]

the more the merrier!

 

[PRINCESS PEACH 777]

yeah guess so

 

[Icetrash]

38 is to small? Thats 13 newcomers and plus more newcomers since Sakurai said some characters will be cut. I think 38 is quite a good number.

 

[pkmnrngr]

sure 13 more characters!

 

[pineappleupsetshark]

Let's see, uh...I want 40-45.
Pichu, Doc, and Roy are obviously gone.
Leaves 22.
We have Pit, Wario, Snake, Pokemon Trainer, Metaknight, Diddy Kong, Ike, ZSS.
30.
10-15 other new characters under that thinking.
With Marth, Ice Climbers, G&W, and Young Link out, we'd get 14-19 new characters.
Wait...actually 9-14/12-17, if we're counting PT as three characters.
The mandatory additions:
Ridley
King Dedede
Lucario
Animal Crossing Character
Fire Emblem Character
WW Link
Krystal
Captain Olimar
Actually, just these additions alone would make things allright.
That would be 41. See why 35 is preposterous?

 

[Brwlvy]

im just glad Ivysaur is in Brawl!! nice calulations i agree but i doubt ww link will make it though you cant be sure look at the wario stage

 

[OnyxVulpine]

117% Growth?

Doesn't that mean

12 x 1.17 = 14?
26 x 1.17 = 30?

Getting confused...

Shouldn't it be 217%?

Uh..

 

[MFZ95]

^^^^
Actually, I believe he said all 3rd Party guests will be unlockable.

Snake too.well for those who dont know,theres a thread saying that sakurai invited Metal gear producer komeji for a game of smash bros. brawl for Wii,and he choose Snake,and sakurai choose mario,and komeji said this game could sell a million copies!, not all Third party characters,expect Snake maybe

 

[Johnknight1]

I'm guessing 43-46 actually. Anything under 40 is totally unacceptable, and would prove Nintendo was being pushy for the release date on Sakurai, to where he couldn't finish when he's ready. He was always kinda like "WFT" when Reggie jumped on the 2007 release after the first trailer, so ya. Clones can fix the number to be higher, definitely. Sakurai will take advantage of it, for sure.

The developing team is larger, HAL's still as much of a help, they have a new and better pysics server, they have APE and Gamefreak's undiveded attention, and the rest of Nintendo. Plus don't forget the mysterious developer of Brawl, Shigeru Miyamoto, Anouma, and Hideo Kojima. I'ts Nintendo's biggest games, and increase of the roster can happen easily with the inclusion of 6-9 well made clones.

Cut Pichu, make Doc a alternate Mario outfit, declone Falco a bit, make G'dorf original. Keep Rot as a clone, but decloned [or add the Black Knight as a Ike clone], and keep Marth. Shiek IDC [her or Midna], keep Captain Falcon, Luigi [super luigified, but hopefully more origianal], Ness, Jigglypuff, and Mewtwo. YLInk=decloned into WW LINK [YES!!!!!=the equivilance of Luigi in Brawl/Melee]. As for the newcomers, that is a whole diffrent story. Falco is probably going to remain a clone, just somewat decloned [as should all returning clones become original, but decloned is okay=limited time].

So ya, CLONES FTW! Also, Dark Samus would make a good [somewat not very clooney] clone, Wolf could be a somewat last minute clone [added like Doc, but less clooney], Lucas [Mother 3] could be a doec-like Ness clone, and then the returning clones can be clones [minus Ganondorf; maybe Luigi] decloned clones. DONE! Well...except for 3rd party characters and every none confirmed newcomers [here's to WW Link].

I think you forgot the double update, and I think once we see clones, we'll see the amount of characters announced rise. And hopefully since we have 100 days til' Brawl, we get a good character today! SONIC! SONIC! SONIC! Also note that Sakurai hasn't been all "WTF?" about the release date, so they obviously are near ready, and Sakurai is probably more than satified. Which means myself [and hopefully everyone else] will be very happy in the end.

Also, something tells me with the 100 days til' Brawl mark, we'll either see almost all double updates, or just flat out a lot more, since there is a lot of ground to cover. HEHE, 2382 hours until Brawl....I'm excited! Especially since that last update confirmed we'll get "Secrets" to discover. Deja vu'=like the last three games=??? Hopefully taunt cancelling returns, as well as all other AT [that were useful].

If anyone is revealed next [returney], my evidence show's it's either the Ice Climbers, Shiek Captain Falcon, or Ness. They're the last of the unconfirmed starters from SSB. The starters will be shown first [as proven=Sakurai hasn't done anything bold like deconfirming/confirming Pichu, G&W, or Doc], and showed the basics. Luigi also has a chance of a story mode appearance [to save peach], along with Link and Wind Waker Link. Then we'll probably see Jiggs, and Ness, and then the returning Melee secret characters. YAE!

BTW, good analysis, but your last comment isn't going to happen. If Sonic's announced to overshadow Halo, it'd be great for Nintendo. More publisity, more money, more "WHOA I WANT THAT GAME!". Same tihing if Megaman or some other big name character Geno is announced. That'd rock, simply put. Also, any big gaming event is a possibility, or revealed on a Wii Channel, similar to Metroid Prime 3, if needed [hopefully earlier ]. But otherwise, definitely good analysis, as always.

Nintendo hasn't ceased to impress, with the series. In SSB Melee we expected 20 characters, or maybe a little more. In SSB Brawl the team is bigger, there are two companies [HAL and the unnamed developer] working together to create the game. Plus add in APE, Game Freak [now not focusing on a Pokémon Game], and all of Nintendo backing wat was their sleeper hit on the GCN's sequal, I expect no less than 40. Call me a dictator, but they can do better than that. The Pokémon Trainer proves they got lots of time, and we've seen a lot of double updates as of late=once a week the last few weeks or so.

Overall it's unacceptable to have less than 38 characters IMO, since the team and support is so huge. This is Nintendo's make or break game, in ways Mario Galaxy never will be. Anything less will be a huge mistake on their part for pushing Sakurai. Plus we got Sakurai, Miyamoto, Anouma, Kojima, etc. etc. etc. Plus Sakurai was upset with Reggie jumped "on Brawl will be out in 2007 hopefully", and now he remains happy, and really hasn't show himself to the public. Sakurai went from angered, to wat I'm guessing is satified.

If anything, they have 37 or so characters made now, and are working on the last originals and clones. Clones can make the roster jump from 38 or 39 to 43-45, like the 20 or 21 [guessed] from Melee became 26, thanks to 6 clones. In the end, Sakurai will be forced to make clones to represent all the other characters who were clones in Melee, popular, not too clooney, and good. ie: not Doc, not Pichu...and I'm guessing either Shiek or Roy are gone. Hopefully I'm wrong though].

So if Sakurai adds 6 clones again, we could see abou 43 or 44 characters. If he adds more, then that number goes up. Hopefully the time that would have taken to make original characters goes into tier balance, stages, the story mode, and HOPEFULLY online play. Clones can make the game roster a bit above common expectations, or bring it to whole new levels as it's predicesors did. The gameplay is looking clean. The graphics look clean. The levels look clean. Now for a diverse roster, with tons of choices. So many, that your head will spin at choosing a main. That will be the worst thing about the game if this is the chase. Choosing a main would be torture, they way we like it! XD

But here's the deal, redoing movests is easier. You just gotta do tier balance, and remake them. The character models redo them. Newer characters take much longer. Characters like the Pokémon characters, Kirby, and a few others take less time to program, since they aren't as graphically upgradable as let's say Link or Mario are. Also, G&W is 2D, easy to make, and would take like 1/100th the time=only create easy to make moves, and the tier balance is the most hastle.

Put into terms, you people are expecting TOO LOW with anything below 35. Seriously, that number would be pitiful, and Nintendo should be ashamed if that happened, since it's their biggest title, on their newest system, and they have their best people at work. It would prove they worked too much on story mode, and lost focus of wat really matters. TONS OF FIGHTERS, styles, and worlds colliding into high-paced gameplay, that players of all skill levels can enjoy. The big favorites need to be there, and there need to be some cool classics as well.

In otherwords, if story mode, ATs, final smashes, items, etc. get in the way of having a 35+ character roster, Brawl obviously had much time wasted into production. It's all about the multiplayer, straight down to it. The characters and the stages are the main focus, and I've reached the conclusion they're already done with most of it, and are adding clones.

Simply put if Nintendo can't make their roster AT LEAST 10 characters bigger on a 3 times of big disc, and system with actual hardware, and real gameplay would be pitiful. Seriously, ALL of HAL is working on it, the secret developer is working on it, APE is working on it, Game Freak is working on it, Miyamoto is working on it, Kojima is working on it, and Cero is probably working on it. Heck, with MP3 out of the way, SM Galaxy and Brawl are the main focuses. And if they can't deliver with their biggest hit, they will fail this gen with the dedicated gamers, badly.

We might enjoy SM Sunshine, MP3, Super Paper Mario, but when it comes down to it, nothing beats multiplayer. In a age where gaming has a big focus on mutliplayer, and Nintendo SHOULD REALIZE that. If Reggie is too blind to force Sakurai to push for a incomplete game, and Nintendo is too, then Halo 3 will eat them alive, vs. being close in sales. This is make or break, and options are wat the series is all about. If it fails to blow the copmetition out of the water, the good dozen or so games coming out this year and early next will eat Brawl alive, and the Wii will begin to fall. Obviously the game is near done, because if it wasn't Sakurai wouldn't be satified, as he's stated he is.

And Sakurai's stated he's wanted many new fighters, so if we don't get many new characters, it will be obvious we got it Reggie's way, not Sakurais. And no one wants that. [insert Miyamoto's famous quote here]. That my friends, is why I expect 40+. Any less than 35 is a disappointment. And if Nintendo can't put in over 35 characters in the game, they rushed the game, and failed IMO, because it could have been so much more. A good game takes time, Sakurai and Nintendo realizes that. And if they sped up this game for not much of a improvement in roster size, why not just call it SSB Melee 2.0=???

They gotta be dedicated to the game, not just think of it like another new game they're making it. And we can already feel the love put in the game, so I expect nothing from the best. If they're multiplayer fails [and online if it has it], then the Wii loses this gen. amongst the real gamers. Not the new older non-gaming generation Nintendo's aimed at, the people who actually play games. I don't want a rushed game, and I'm not getting one. It's obviously not rushed, so expecting under 35 characters...well prepare to be AMAZED! Sakurai's mindgames skills will dazzle, enlighten, and amaze you! XD

HEHE, love my past posts! [when they don't suck]

Anyways, I forgot something. Sakurai said he'd be saving some characters for "THE END!" *dun dun dun dun* Could this mean 3rd party [Sonic, Megaman, Geno,Bomberman, Simon Belmont], or multiple characters=??? Maybe even clones....the drama continues! Plus at the rate we're going, I expect 23-28 by November.

@ pineappleupsetshark
You deserve a cookie just for having Wind Waker Link on that list!

 

[Homelessvagrant]

way to praise yourself JohnKnight1.

 

[Vicious Delicious]

Sorry, computer acted up

 

[2007]

Let's see, uh...I want 40-45.
Pichu, Doc, and Roy are obviously gone.
Leaves 22.
We have Pit, Wario, Snake, Pokemon Trainer, Metaknight, Diddy Kong, Ike, ZSS.
30.
10-15 other new characters under that thinking.
With Marth, Ice Climbers, G&W, and Young Link out, we'd get 14-19 new characters.
Wait...actually 9-14/12-17, if we're counting PT as three characters.
The mandatory additions:
Ridley
King Dedede
Lucario
Animal Crossing Character
Fire Emblem Character
WW Link
Krystal
Captain Olimar
Actually, just these additions alone would make things allright.
That would be 41. See why 35 is preposterous?

s\scratch some of those out.

35 would be perpostrous--it's be anywhere between 38 and 39. Why?
I hope you're comfortable...
If everyone from Melee came back, that means we'd know the whole cast
38!?! 39!?! dang right.
Let's be nice and say we have 22 characters returning from Melee, much to my dismay. let's just say that Sheik, Young Link, and Pichu got the axe. Marth maybe, or Roy would be the 4th. with the 8 newcomers, that makes 30. (counting PokeTrainer as 1).
Now, assuming they made some former secret characters starters (Luigi, Jigglypuff, Dr. Mario or Falco), that puts us at 18 starters perhaps (even if that list was true, I have doubts that all of them would be starters) so, 18.
then we add Wario, Pit, and Meta-Knight, and count ZSS in as her own character. that makes 22 starters.
Assuming that the characters that say: WARNING: CHALLENGER APPROACHING are secret, and throw in Snake, that makes a grand toal of (drumroll) 4: Ike, Diddy, PT, and Snake. add the remaining Melee characters: Ganondorf, G&W, Roy, (or Marth, depending on who returned) and Mewtwo. that makes 8 total, bringing us back to 30.
Now, 22 to 8 is 26.6667%--less than SSB64. since SSB64 had 33.3333% secrets, and Melee had 42.3077% (look it up) secrets, we can radically assume it would be in between those numbers.
If Brawl had 33.3333% secret charcters, we'd have a total of 33 characters (a coincidence? yep.) if Brawl had 42.3077% secret characters, we'd hit 38.596491, which round up to 39 (or for those of use who are conservative, 38). there's 38-39.
having 45 or 47 would be perpostrous too. If we had 22 startes and 45 characters total, there'd be more secret characters than starters. nuh-uh. If you throw in Sheik we break even, but what for 47? nope.
Young link, Pichu and Roy are secret characters... probably going to stay that way... most likely to be removed from Brawl... there you go.

ding!

 

[X-x-Dyce-x-X]

How come PT gets counted as 1 character, while Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zamus count as 2?
...just a thought...

 

[Knyaguy]

i dont get that "for the end" part the next smash bros or.....

 

[ChozoChampion]

im hoping that he will show a screenshot of the char select screen at some point. this would give us a rough idea of the roster size.

 

[Johnknight1]

way to praise yourself JohnKnight1.

I love myself, what cna I say=???

How come PT gets counted as 1 character, while Zelda/Sheik and Samus/Zamus count as 2?
...just a thought...

Well because you're the Pokémon Trainer [but he doesn't fight], and you play as his Pokémon. In a sense, you're right and wrong at the same time.

BTW 2007, you forgot the whole saving characters for "the end". Clones? Supe Secret Characters? 3rd Party? Fan Favorites? THE SUSPENSE! BTW, math doesn't count it for me, it's all about the hours of staff work, a massize staff size, support, time, and devotion. And quite frankly, the Brawl team has the biggest support team and staff size I've ever seen [including all the extra 1st, 2nd, and 3rd party support]. They've had more time than Melee already I believe [not sure, but I know it's around the same time], and they should have the most devoted staff, being Nintendo's make, break, or dominate game. Therefore 43-46 is definitely not out of the question.

YAE META KNIGHT!

 

[<π]

With friday's update I thought it would be a good opportunity to bump the thread and quote and boldmy "i told you so"s.

Nice post Omni, but I disagree on the cap you set. For a handful of reasons, Brawl was anounced at e3 2005 (wasn't started yet, but whatever, not my point) come e3 2006 a full movie demo showing in game play was already shown with newly textured characters, completely new characters, and new stages all working and functioning well. It was later revealed that brawl was based on melee's engine.

So in my little game programers mind it clicked that the game was done nearly from day one, and I mean that very literally. pika, mario and the rest of the "original 4" were all shown using their melee move sets with a few tweaks on knock back here and there if you want to get picky. It literally looked like old models with new textures. And if that could be done with those for, the same could easily be done for the rest of the melee cast starting you off right off the bat with 21 fresh original movesets to play around with (and probablly a few that didn't make it to melee as well).

And when you couple that with the fact the most game cycles are only 18 months long, and that brawl is shooting for past two years, and way past the development team size for your average fighting game, you can kind of get in perspective exactly what they can do with all that time.
Stickers, a branching story mode, bosses, and of course ATs(lots of work here) means that the game as a whole has grown so much more than we can weigh. I for one wouldn't be shocked if the game had well over 40 characters.

Basically:
Melee started from scratch, they had to build the engine, the tools, and then they could go for the meat of the game. with brawl they have a main course people already enjoy. The engine and tools are already there as well as some characters, that two years to add test and balance content instead of 8 or 9 months

yes @ hard to understand examples... and the @ sign

 

[san-romanov]

You're right, probably we get just those characters. Anyway, i think a rooster of 40 is enough, minimun 36.