Brawl at EVO 2009

[Dastrn]

James Chen has suggested that EVO might be interested in doing items-off Brawl next year at EVO.

Most of us weren't happy with what they put up this year, but they've shown up on our boards and posted respectfully about their decisions and are actively seeking cooperation between the SWF community and the EVO staff.

I, for one, would LOVE to see us interact maturely, without all the flaming that was present in the other thread.

If you have an opinion that isn't "ITEMS ARE GHEY!!!one" then post it here. If you want to complain about the past, do it somewhere else.

 

[Anth0ny]

Items off next year would be good

There would be an obvious increase in participation, possibly breaking even the 300 player mark.

 

[Sad Panda323]

Cool. I might actually pay attention to EVO next year.

Btw, I heard Ken lost to some ROB player, did the items play a part in his defeat?

 

[Beeble]

TZ is Evo. The guy who runs TZ is on our staff.

Can we get someone from SWF on your staff?

 

[jchensor]

Can we get someone from SWF on your staff?

I'm not personally in position to make that decision, but I personally can't see why not. But keep in mind that being on the staff is signing up for a LOT more than you are thinking it is. ^_^

Pretty much, being on Evo Staff also entails helping doing all the manual labor crap no one wants to do. Such as getting to Evo earlier than everyone else to help set-up (lifting TVs and supplies from trucks and setting the TVs up onto tables, and doing all of the other set up stuff, etc.), helping with handing out badges and getting people into the hall and such, running pools for any game you might have to (which is never fun), running around putting out random fires as they come up, never getting a chance to leave the hall without telling someone and having people be able to keep track of you at all times, leaving Evo later than everyone else for clean-up (moving the TVs BACK onto the trucks and such after the event), and basically working from 8:30 a.m. in the morning to 1:30 a.m. every night for three to four nights in a row (which means about an average of 4-5 hours of sleep every night once you take into account getting ready for bed and getting ready in the morning) with nary a break. After every Evo every year, all staff members are pretty much beat for the entire next week, and your feet are killing you for a few days afterwards, too. I'm at work right now as I type this, and I have my head down on my desk like every 30 minutes 'cause I'm still exhausted from Evo, and I even had all of Wednesday to sleep and rest.

I'm not trying to scare you off. I'm just trying to prepare anyone who volunteers for what's in store for them. ^_^

- James

 

[bizkit01]

Cool. I might actually pay attention to EVO next year.

Btw, I heard Ken lost to some ROB player, did the items play a part in his defeat?

Only if you consider flying around and laser-popping the smash ball from across the stage for like his 3rd final smash playing a part

I actually like the randomness and tier-changing ability of the items, but if you are interested in finding out who the best player is, randomness probably shouldn't be involved.

 

[Dastrn]

I'm not personally in position to make that decision, but I personally can't see why not. But keep in mind that being on the staff is signing up for a LOT more than you are thinking it is. ^_^

Pretty much, being on Evo Staff also entails helping doing all the manual labor crap no one wants to do. Such as getting to Evo earlier than everyone else to help set-up (lifting TVs and supplies from trucks and setting the TVs up onto tables, and doing all of the other set up stuff, etc.), helping with handing out badges and getting people into the hall and such, running pools for any game you might have to (which is never fun), running around putting out random fires as they come up, never getting a chance to leave the hall without telling someone and having people be able to keep track of you at all times, leaving Evo later than everyone else for clean-up (moving the TVs BACK onto the trucks and such after the event), and basically working from 8:30 a.m. in the morning to 1:30 a.m. every night for three to four nights in a row (which means about an average of 4-5 hours of sleep every night once you take into account getting ready for bed and getting ready in the morning) with nary a break. After every Evo every year, all staff members are pretty much beat for the entire next week, and your feet are killing you for a few days afterwards, too. I'm at work right now as I type this, and I have my head down on my desk like every 30 minutes 'cause I'm still exhausted from Evo, and I even had all of Wednesday to sleep and rest.

I'm not trying to scare you off. I'm just trying to prepare anyone who volunteers for what's in store for them. ^_^

- James

I volunteer. I'll even organize all the regional qualifiers.

not kidding.

 

[Harbinger631]

How much importance does EVO place in a game's spectateablility? We all know how much slower Brawl is, matches frequently go 5 min (more if a ROB is playing). Is that a factor in EVO's desicion-making process for its game line-up?

 

[Sad Panda323]

^Obviously, not much since there was Brawl this year and they're thinking of having it next year too. I really don't think Brawl videos are too boring to watch, maybe less exciting than Melee videos, but they're still watchable.

 

[Goldkirby]

Just FYI, it's James Chen, not Chensor.

 

[Dastrn]

Just FYI, it's James Chen, not Chensor.

editted. thanks!

 

[Turbo Ether]

I'm positive Evo will achieve higher attendance next year if they turn items off. Although, I will say that this years tourney was still exciting and competitive. I believe items can be viable with some adjustments.

Official Item Standard Play

If you're gonna use items, I strongly recommend taking a look at this thread. It covers how items can be most effectively and fairly be implemented into competitive play.

 

[Dastrn]

I'd like to point out that Vegas is by far the cheapest place to travel to in the country. You shouldn't expect to pay any more than $250 for a round trip ticket, and hotels will run like $50 a night. It's a great place to have a tournament.

 

[angelslayer13]

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=162161

"Smash this year was immensly more interesting than last year. I liked watching the top 8. I got hella bored watching melee last year. THis year with items on made the game a lot more interesting. Ink summed it up great. People always *****ed that players would just run to the smash ball's everytime, and this definitely wasn't the case. Players were baiting eachother to make the first hit, so the other can get the 2nd hit to break it for themselves.

And I gotta say, when CPU sniped the smash ball, full screen with ROB, that was the illest **** I ever saw in smash.

Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, Smash with items is WAY more fun and gives the game so much more meat and more strategies. The best players still made top8. Us fighting game players deal with our games at the default setting, love it or hate it, we accept it. This is the nature of EVO and It hasn't failed us. Fgihters have their fair share of randomness, we still accept it for what it is.

I can't count how many times I lost crucial 3s matches due to a random parry. So should we turn parries off? lol.

I don't like the idea of stripping a game down to the bare basics to make it "playable." EVO proved item play is legit. I think smash community is too stubborn to accept a game as is. The matches werent even ****, so many close matches that it made the game more enjoyable. Lots of crazy tactics. If these items and final smashes are so good, it would just be ****, most of the time. But it wasn't"

 

[omegawhitemage]

I'm not personally in position to make that decision, but I personally can't see why not. But keep in mind that being on the staff is signing up for a LOT more than you are thinking it is. ^_^

Pretty much, being on Evo Staff also entails helping doing all the manual labor crap no one wants to do. Such as getting to Evo earlier than everyone else to help set-up (lifting TVs and supplies from trucks and setting the TVs up onto tables, and doing all of the other set up stuff, etc.), helping with handing out badges and getting people into the hall and such, running pools for any game you might have to (which is never fun), running around putting out random fires as they come up, never getting a chance to leave the hall without telling someone and having people be able to keep track of you at all times, leaving Evo later than everyone else for clean-up (moving the TVs BACK onto the trucks and such after the event), and basically working from 8:30 a.m. in the morning to 1:30 a.m. every night for three to four nights in a row (which means about an average of 4-5 hours of sleep every night once you take into account getting ready for bed and getting ready in the morning) with nary a break. After every Evo every year, all staff members are pretty much beat for the entire next week, and your feet are killing you for a few days afterwards, too. I'm at work right now as I type this, and I have my head down on my desk like every 30 minutes 'cause I'm still exhausted from Evo, and I even had all of Wednesday to sleep and rest.

I'm not trying to scare you off. I'm just trying to prepare anyone who volunteers for what's in store for them. ^_^

- James

I'd be happy to take this on as well. This takes into account most of the stuff I enjoy about running tournaments and having run the second biggest EC tournament ever, I do believe I'm qualified.

 

[Big_R]

CPU must be the greatest smasher int he world! esp cuz ive heard so much about him

 

[Nobie]

It's easy to criticize CPU for not having a reputation in the community.

That said, I remember comments from early on in Melee's life when people said something along the lines of, "There's some new player named Ken. I'd never heard of him but he supposedly has a really good Marth!"

 

[AlphaZealot]

run the second biggest EC tournament ever

Hate to do this...

MLG New York playoffs: 204
Pound 3: 230ish (forget the official count)
Pound 2: 200
Those are the top 3.

And...Smashtality, I forget *I believe this is the one you are referring to*
MLG New York opener: 143
EC cirvuit event #1 had over 100 as well.

old record holders:
BOMB4: 104
MLG DC 102
Game Over: 98

Correct me if I'm wrong/forgetting some tournaments.

 

[EnigmaticCam]

I look forward to this. Props to those at Evo for making it happen if it does.

 

[omegawhitemage]

Whoops, guess i'm fourth. VLS has 189.

I really shoul've added independent to that. And I forgot completely about MLG. SO if we exclude tournament MLG has funded in someway, then I am in fact second. A stretch I know.

 

[Ignatius]

I don't like the idea of stripping a game down to the bare basics to make it "playable." EVO proved item play is legit. I think smash community is too stubborn to accept a game as is. The matches werent even ****, so many close matches that it made the game more enjoyable. Lots of crazy tactics. If these items and final smashes are so good, it would just be ****, most of the time. But it wasn't"

This isn't really true, EVO didn't play the game as is. They changed it as well from it's default settings. Their line is just as arbitrarily drawn. And really, any insight given into rules with items on once EVO decided to go with it was more or less laughed away because we're from "LOL SMASHBOARDS GET OUT OF THE IRC".

And most people knew before EVO that item play isn't impossible to pull off, it's just a different way to play the game. A way that most of the community here prefers not to play. We've tried it, and prefer items off, that's really about all there is to it. Personal preference.

With items on the game is a bit more focused on stage control, and if it's a good time to grab an item or bait someone into going for it themselves. With items off it's more about character/stage matchups, and knowing as much as you can about your character. That's not to say that items-on is devoid of character knowledge, and items-off is devoid of stage control; but the focus shifts when either is played.

I'm not personally in position to make that decision, but I personally can't see why not. But keep in mind that being on the staff is signing up for a LOT more than you are thinking it is. ^_^

Pretty much, being on Evo Staff also entails helping doing all the manual labor crap no one wants to do. Such as getting to Evo earlier than everyone else to help set-up (lifting TVs and supplies from trucks and setting the TVs up onto tables, and doing all of the other set up stuff, etc.), helping with handing out badges and getting people into the hall and such, running pools for any game you might have to (which is never fun), running around putting out random fires as they come up, never getting a chance to leave the hall without telling someone and having people be able to keep track of you at all times, leaving Evo later than everyone else for clean-up (moving the TVs BACK onto the trucks and such after the event), and basically working from 8:30 a.m. in the morning to 1:30 a.m. every night for three to four nights in a row (which means about an average of 4-5 hours of sleep every night once you take into account getting ready for bed and getting ready in the morning) with nary a break. After every Evo every year, all staff members are pretty much beat for the entire next week, and your feet are killing you for a few days afterwards, too. I'm at work right now as I type this, and I have my head down on my desk like every 30 minutes 'cause I'm still exhausted from Evo, and I even had all of Wednesday to sleep and rest.

I'm not trying to scare you off. I'm just trying to prepare anyone who volunteers for what's in store for them. ^_^

- James

Sounds like running an FC.

 

[AlphaZealot]

189, nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Snakeee]

And I gotta say, when CPU sniped the smash ball, full screen with ROB, that was the illest **** I ever saw in smash.

LMFAO that is getting sigged

 

[Beeble]

I can't count how many times I lost crucial 3s matches due to a random parry. So should we turn parries off? lol.

For the last time, parries aren't random. Random indicates that no one but the game had control over that element and there is no predictable pattern of occurence. Parries are controlled by each player, and are not a random game element. Items are random.

Props Ignatius

 

[kirbstir]

The SRK folks should never claim to be playing the game in default settings; if they were, Evo would've been timed 3 minute matches with all items and stages on, and none of them "banned."

In reality, the argument that items off is changing the game applies just as well to Evo's ruleset.

 

[Nica K.O]

For the last time, parries aren't random. Random indicates that no one but the game had control over that element and there is no predictable pattern of occurence. Parries are controlled by each player, and are not a random game element. Items are random.

Props Ignatius

yeah pretty much...i play 3s competitively and parries shouldnt be called random rly

cuz someone does it when they expect a move...theyre anticipating theyre not just pushing forward just to walk and yet they get a parry....with items....things pop up out of nowhere so you can instantly get an item that can shift the momentum of the game to one players side which doesnt take much skill (to use an item.....i mean)

either way EVO is still trying out the ruleset for brawl...nothing will hurt for a change like this...besides they might just get an even bigger turnout just cuz ppl prefer NO items on

 

[GI Josh]

If they have an EVO midwest, I may be intersted...

 

[Dastrn]

Lets not derail the thread by talking about items. We've already been told that if it happens, items probably will not be on. There's nothing to argue here about items.

I'm interested in hearing how many of you would make the trip out to Vegas next year if EVO used the SBR ruleset. Assume the trip will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $250-300.

 

[Serris]

I'm interested in hearing how many of you would make the trip out to Vegas next year if EVO used the SBR ruleset. Assume the trip will cost you somewhere in the neighborhood of $250-300.

I'd go if I could somehow convince my parents. I've already been to Vegas twice, both times for the Star Trek thing at the Hilton. Now that that's gone, I have no idea on how I'm going to get out there.

Not to mention I don't have the option of only paying $29 for a one-way ticket any more. Why couldn't Allegiant Air be a national airline instead of being exclusive to the Fresno area?

 

[IShotLazer]

http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=162161

"Smash this year was immensly more interesting than last year. I liked watching the top 8. I got hella bored watching melee last year. THis year with items on made the game a lot more interesting. Ink summed it up great. People always *****ed that players would just run to the smash ball's everytime, and this definitely wasn't the case. Players were baiting eachother to make the first hit, so the other can get the 2nd hit to break it for themselves.

And I gotta say, when CPU sniped the smash ball, full screen with ROB, that was the illest **** I ever saw in smash.

Bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, Smash with items is WAY more fun and gives the game so much more meat and more strategies. The best players still made top8. Us fighting game players deal with our games at the default setting, love it or hate it, we accept it. This is the nature of EVO and It hasn't failed us. Fgihters have their fair share of randomness, we still accept it for what it is.

I can't count how many times I lost crucial 3s matches due to a random parry. So should we turn parries off? lol.

I don't like the idea of stripping a game down to the bare basics to make it "playable." EVO proved item play is legit. I think smash community is too stubborn to accept a game as is. The matches werent even ****, so many close matches that it made the game more enjoyable. Lots of crazy tactics. If these items and final smashes are so good, it would just be ****, most of the time. But it wasn't"

Anyway it's ok to run a tournament with items on, and again it ok to LIKE the game with items on. However it also matters what the general public enjoys. EVO wanted to have the most people come to their tournament but yet they didn't accept the public's general consensus. Further more, the side group that actually does enjoy items use a completely different item set than what was used in EVO and they completely ignored that as well.

Also I have no clue what you're talking about in Street Fighter 3... RANDOM parries? I can parry well and I BARELY play the game. SF3 doesn't have anything random in it... Never did...
Which is why they have consistent good players win their tournaments. Not to mention changing the settings in the other games revolves around changing health and if even possible changing best out of 3/5/7. So yeah, the people are playing the game as is, they can't play it another way!

On another subject, the reason Smash is played the way we play it because again... It was meant to be a party game. However we found out it was an incredibly deep party game because of the way it is played and the physics used so we sought out to make it as deep and balanced as possible. SF3 MVC2 and all of those also have a built in best out of three.
To further the point the default mode of play is a two minute time match all items on medium appearance in SSBB. I DARE you to enjoy THAT one in a serious 1v1.

 

[IShotLazer]

Evo should go East...
I mean... not to start flame wars, but Smash is more popular in the East coast.
Far west has a chance considering California but... NY would be perfect and it's easy for more smashers to get there as well.

 

[thesage]

I would've gone this year if there weren't items on so I'm pretty sure I could go next year too.

 

[Beeble]

Evo should go East...
I mean... not to start flame wars, but Smash is more popular in the East coast.
Far west has a chance considering California but... NY would be perfect and it's easy for more smashers to get there as well.

As previouly mentioned though, vegas is the cheapest place to fly to regardless of where from, not to mention staying there is also cheap. The same cannot be said of NY. Also, this isn't just smash. This is actually more of an SF based tourney, which is less east coast heavy than smash. The city in all likeliness will not be changing.

As for the specific venue, was it at the tropicana this year (and not red rock)? Which was better?

 

[OmegaXF]

All in All EVO was something different this year that a lot of smashers will probably want less of next year.

 

[AfroQT]

If Evo2k9 brawl is ran with no items i'll show up. As im sure alot of people from florida will as well.

 

[Doggalina]

It'd be interesting if they had Brawl AND Melee. Melee went over well in 2007, I believe, so why not have it again?

 

[TheManaLord]

bc they don't know the game series at all and they don't understand the series are not sequentially and intentionally good competitive games.

 

[Gerjay]

Or because they only run 6-8 games max and with 4+ new games coming out next year there's barely going to be room for the older SF games, yet alone melee.

PS - I'd love to see Brawl at EVO again.

 

[Dastrn]

It'd be interesting if they had Brawl AND Melee. Melee went over well in 2007, I believe, so why not have it again?

There's no way they'll run Melee next year. Take this year's roster, and add 4-5 new games coming out, and they'd need to do like 12 games to have Melee. That just doesn't make any sense at all. There's no reason to cut out any of the other games if they're having 2 smash titles.

Expect their total number of games to be between 6-8, and Melee will not be one of them.

 

[Mega_$m@sh]

Hopefully they use the SBR rule list for EVO 09 because it's good IMO