Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[standardtoaster]

http://www.livestream.com/stminus

Zelda's better. ;o

 

[CyberGlitch]

Hey BlackRainNFire >.>
I'm maybe one of those friends, right? Nice coincidence catching this convo here.
Neenah~~~represent!

Great work on Minus guys! I highly anticipate the more refined next release.

 

[Mera Mera]

Hellz yes CyberGlitch

 

[MonkUnit]

omg CyberGlitch, if you are close to Eau Claire, I can see if you can come to my smashfest on the 23rd or with BlackRainNFire when we get a day chosen between the 26 and 2 of Jan.

 

[Z'zgashi]

Utah might be having a minus tournament on the 18th. All depends on wether or not we have time as it's not top priority.

 

[Carretero89]

Hey, can someone help me, i download the brawl-, and i installed all the stuff, but i can't use my gc control, i don't know if it has to do with the 4.3U or something

please help, T_T

 

[MonkUnit]

Do you have any extra codes in the GCT? Are you using a nintendo made controller? Is it a wireless controller?

 

[Carretero89]

first, im from puerto rico, and i dont know what "GCT" stands for, xD

but im using a GC control from nintendo which is the one that comes with the GC "non-wireless"

 

[TL?]

.gct is a filetype. A file with this type is the codeset for brawl minus and should be in the codes folder on the sd card.

 

[Carretero89]

well i will check if i have that one...but..do i need that GCT file? and for futrther replys...do i need any extra codes for that file to make my controllers work? thanks for the help by the way!

 

[Carretero89]

well i do have the GCT file. now how do i know if i have the right extra code? or what should i do now?

 

[MonkUnit]

Just make sure you use the RSBE01.GCT that is included with the download of minus.

 

[Shiroyu]

Would there be any chance of 2.0 being the perfect Christmas gift?

 

[MASTERLINKX]

As much as I want 2.0, I want it to be ready before it's released.

They can take all the time they want.
No rushing. :3

 

[MonkUnit]

There is no chance of this being done by Christmas. Maybe early janurary 2011.

 

[standardtoaster]

first, im from puerto rico, and i dont know what "GCT" stands for, xD

but im using a GC control from nintendo which is the one that comes with the GC "non-wireless"

Are you using ntsc-u brawl or PAL brawl?

There is no chance of this being done by Christmas. Maybe early janurary 2011.

We can only hope that we get a gift out.

 

[PosthumusES]

We are working on balancing the characters atm :V

 

[Supreme Dirt]

ftr Yoshi's Island Melee is a great cp for toon link.

 

[Z'zgashi]

@Prosthumus: +10 cool points for Raiza. I used to run a kick *** Monarch Removal deck, and even to this day, it still owns when I break it out.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Oh, which reminds me, have you guys decided if TL gets to keep his DTaunt in the next build? It's so great when people be getting all up in your face, yo.

It'd almost be the ultimate move if it weren't DIable and had no ending lag.

 

[Lightosia]

Really, guys, you are underestimating Bowser's potential with the Heavy Armor.
Second time in a row a Bowser wins a (big) minus tournament here in Brazil.
Bowser has many setups from Uthrow, like Fair or Uair, that kills really early.
Also, it isn't that easy to combo him until death, since some ways are situational. Jiggs comboed him hard, but Bowser still managed to win. And no, attacks that doesn't surpass the Armor weren't even used.

Or, our Bowser main is TOO good.
I wish I'd have vids to show for you guys.

 

[MonkUnit]

Dirt, TL's dtaunt is already reworked to still do damage but not be as absurd. ie: hitboxes that don't match, invinc, etc

 

[Z'zgashi]

Just go yoshi and pivot grab bowser OVER AND OVER (it out ranges his everything except fire breath) then chaingrab him to the ledge EVERY TIME, dthrow, then sweetspot uair for a kill around 100. That's a hard counter right there.

EDIT: You can also egg toss camp to force an approach, and since the eggs break his armor, they have a bigger explosion hit box, and the hit twice, power shielding them is pretty hard. Also, you can combo with only eggs lol.

 

[Lightosia]

Well, no one used Yoshi...
And I'm pretty sure Bowser can do something against Yoshi's Pivot Grab, especially if Bowser approaches from the air.

 

[DtJ Composer]

Jigglypuff!
Luigi!
DK!

 

[Lightosia]

Just go yoshi and pivot grab bowser OVER AND OVER (it out ranges his everything except fire breath) then chaingrab him to the ledge EVERY TIME, dthrow, then sweetspot uair for a kill around 100. That's a hard counter right there.

EDIT: You can also egg toss camp to force an approach, and since the eggs break his armor, they have a bigger explosion hit box, and the hit twice, power shielding them is pretty hard. Also, you can combo with only eggs lol.

Now I've tested in training mode and egg toss DO NOT surpass the Armor. It takes 9%, fresh.

Also, about the CG, the CPU could escape sometimes WITHOUT proper DI by using fair. So I can't really see it working on real players.

 

[Z'zgashi]

So the eggs don't hit him out? Must be thinking of an earlier version then. But if the cg isn't working, that means you're not buffering it correctly. It's not an easy cg, it takes getting used to. It's not really hard though either. And bowser has no answer pivot grab, that's why yoshi wrecks him so hard in vbrawl.

 

[Lightosia]

But in vBrawl, Bowser doen't have a dash attack that leans him foward half of a stage or a wind pulling nair.
And I think neutral B works well against Pivot Grab.

I'll test more about the CG on real players when I get the chance. The bad thing about it is that platforms interrupt the CG, so...

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

If bowser is giving you trouble use zelda, her lightning kicks combined with his huge body he has no were to run. She destroys bowser imo as long as you dont try up-smash or f-smash on him.
Or if you want to have some stupid fun chose sheik and every time bowers uses a more counter it with up-B this will beat bowser every time since his moves are slow and predictable plus sheik's up-B is fast and hard to punish. Lastly bowser is not that good since grabs destroy him.

What are popular characters in Brazil? b/c unless everyone is playing wolf and lucario who have some trouble breaking through his armor or olimar who is just terrible bowser should not be a problem

 

[Lightosia]

If bowser is giving you trouble use zelda, her lightning kicks combined with his huge body he has no were to run. She destroys bowser imo as long as you dont try up-smash or f-smash on him.
Or if you want to have some stupid fun chose sheik and every time bowers uses a more counter it with up-B this will beat bowser every time since his moves are slow and predictable plus sheik's up-B is fast and hard to punish. Lastly bowser is not that good since grabs destroy him.

What are popular characters in Brazil? b/c unless everyone is playing wolf and lucario who have some trouble breaking through his armor or olimar who is just terrible bowser should not be a problem

When I say Brazil, it is actually São Paulo, since I've never seen minus in other states, yet.
So, the most popular here is probably Captain Falcon, but it is actually very balanced about the characters.
I have yet to see a Zelda vs Bowser match here. I think Zelda has some advantage, but not too much. The kicks destroy him, but..... that's it. I don't remember if Din's Fire works on Bowser, but if it does, I can really see her as a good counter to him.

All Bowser's moves are slow? Fortress is REALLY quick, FTilt, Dtilt and Fair are somewhat quick. This Sheik's strategy won't work.
Grabs only destroy him if you actually have good followups that work on him, or a good CG.

 

[Z'zgashi]

But in vBrawl, Bowser doen't have a dash attack that leans him foward half of a stage or a wind pulling nair.
And I think neutral B works well against Pivot Grab.

I'll test more about the CG on real players when I get the chance. The bad thing about it is that platforms interrupt the CG, so...

God, seriously, think about what you're saying. Dash attack can be pivot grabbed regardless of how far it goes because bowser still has a hurtbox the whole time. Sure it can punish a miss, but you should just reset if it's risky anyway. Plus with yoshi's dominate mobility with a great air speed, fast run, and the ability to egg roll cancel, he can be pretty much anywhere in an instant.

Bowser's nair just makes our grab range longer. Yoshi can also double jump through it, his nair sweetspotted out prioritizes it, and uair out ranges it from below and combos into itself at low damages. Yoshi can also egg lay his nair, and wavebounce away which will stop bowser's suction from pulling him any further.

Fire breath does beat it out, but we can just double jump through it and uair, nair, etc him in the face.

The CG will work perfect as long as you buffer correctly and if platforms are in the way, just throw him and combo out of that. You're only missing out on probably 5%ish if you stop early. Dont forget to finish combos with fair when possible cuz it puts a flower on their head that racks up damage for a good length of time.

All Bowser's moves are slow? Fortress is REALLY quick, FTilt, Dtilt and Fair are somewhat quick. This Sheik's strategy won't work.
Grabs only destroy him if you actually have good followups that work on him, or a good CG.

This is exactly what yoshi has. A CG, amazing combos out of dthrow, a kill at 100%ish on bowser out of dthrow, and a huge ranged grab that comes out fast with minimal lag. Oh, and he also has an air grab that out ranges bowser's own and better mobility + 2 double jumps with super armor to deal with him in the air.

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

When I say Brazil, it is actually São Paulo, since I've never seen minus in other states, yet.
So, the most popular here is probably Captain Falcon, but it is actually very balanced about the characters.
I have yet to see a Zelda vs Bowser match here. I think Zelda has some advantage, but not too much. The kicks destroy him, but..... that's it. I don't remember if Din's Fire works on Bowser, but if it does, I can really see her as a good counter to him.

All Bowser's moves are slow? Fortress is REALLY quick, FTilt, Dtilt and Fair are somewhat quick. This Sheik's strategy won't work.
Grabs only destroy him if you actually have good followups that work on him, or a good CG.

Zelda's lightning kicks with spacing destroy him, he has no answer for it.

Also sheik's Up-B is safe if you hit his shield twice and while moving away or hit his shield once and angle the up-B up slightly, going slightly in the air lowers sheik's landing lag on the move. This means that even if you jump the gun you can still often be safe with the up-B.

Now Falcon does have some trouble just b/c most of his combo starting moves dont do enough dmg. As long as people use ether stronger characters or characters with long grab range Bowser should not be a problem.

 

[Swordplay]

How is bowser broken.

Does ganondorf not bypass the super armor?
Does Yoshi not grab him to death?
Does jiggs not gimp/rest?
Do projectiles not bother super armor? Play Link. I've done it!
Does luigi not own this entire game ? I've seen it!

Other characters i havent tried but im sure would work.

DK Lots of range and heavy hits, deadly barrels
Snake? o yes, snake.......You just don't know it yet but ive seen it!

 

[Z'zgashi]

Does bowser slip on bananas in this version? I cant remember...

 

[Supreme Dirt]

DK's Barrel Pull with items on makes me chuckle.

Even more so when playing SSE. So far I haven't gotten a Smash Ball, though.

 

[Lightosia]

Yoshi's CG on Bowser is ESCAPABLE with jump. Even if you buffer it correctly, Bowser will be too high to grab again.
In this match you are FORCED to hit with the sweetspots for Nair and Uair. Any sourspot will be punished BAD.
Bowser also has a followup from Uthrow to Fair or Uair (depending on DI).
Fire Breath is quick enough do cancel it before you get punished. You won't be holding it like an idiot.
Upsmash has a tripping hitbox with a range that is bigger than Yoshi's grab range.
I just can't see this matchup as a hard counter.

How is bowser broken.

Does ganondorf not bypass the super armor?
Does Yoshi not grab him to death?
Does jiggs not gimp/rest?
Do projectiles not bother super armor? Play Link. I've done it!
Does luigi not own this entire game ? I've seen it!

Other characters i havent tried but im sure would work.

DK Lots of range and heavy hits, deadly barrels
Snake? o yes, snake.......You just don't know it yet but ive seen it!

I've never said he was broken.
It's just that he is better than most of what you guys think.
Bowser- is not only made of the Armor. When someone says that some character bypass the armor with this or that attack, or all attacks, it won't mean he would be an imediate counter.

Ganon, Jiggly, DK and Luigi I can see as counters to Bowser. But Bowser can still manage to win those matchups without abusing his armor and DIing correctly when you get comboed.
Only some projectiles bypass the armor. Link's arrows have to be almost full charged to do a knockback.

1.6 build....

 

[MonkUnit]

Does bowser slip on bananas in this version? I cant remember...

Bananas do not cause bowser to slip due to the bananas not doing enough damage when thrown at him or slipping to go through the armor. Also, IIRC Ganondorf's aerial sideB grounding does not go through the armor, thus not impaling bowser.

 

[Z'zgashi]

1. Yoshi's CG on Bowser is ESCAPABLE with jump. Even if you buffer it correctly, Bowser will be too high to grab again.
In this match you are FORCED to hit with the sweetspots for Nair and Uair. Any sourspot will be punished BAD.
Bowser also has a followup from Uthrow to Fair or Uair (depending on DI).
2. Fire Breath is quick enough do cancel it before you get punished. You won't be holding it like an idiot.
3. Upsmash has a tripping hitbox with a range that is bigger than Yoshi's grab range.
4. I just can't see this matchup as a hard counter.

lrn2buffer

Then DJ away from firebreath. Not that hard.

Then mix up with short hopped aerials.

Watch any decent yoshi fight bowser in minus and you will understand.

Bananas do not cause bowser to slip due to the bananas not doing enough damage when thrown at him or slipping to go through the armor. Also, IIRC Ganondorf's aerial sideB grounding does not go through the armor, thus not impaling bowser.

That's what I thought, just making sure.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

If Ganon is aerudoing Bowser, he's playing the MU wrong. You want the grounded version, so you can techchase with some ridiculous followup. Just don't try to gerudo through an FSmash, taking ridiculous amounts of damage hurts Ganon's longevity.

Also, Falcon wins against Bowser every single time.

 

[DunnoBro]

I don't think any of you are understanding what Lightosia is trying to say...

He's merely trying to say bowser is viable, perhaps even more than viable. But not broken.
Yeah, there are ways to deal with bowser... lots of them, which is why he isn't broken.
But he still can absolutely CRUSH a lot of the cast. Whereas only a handful have good ways to deal with him, and even then they usually aren't any worse than the MUs he has on other chars.

He's easily CPed and has difficult MUs with popular, easy to pick up characters. However, he's an ideal character to use as a pocket pick as a last match cp. Especially against other popular characters, like pikachu, metaknight, etc.