Social Bowser's Castle

[Cassius.]

B reversing is a nice option too, but it does have a decent amount of recovery afterward. Bowser's fast enough to still catch you.

If the Bowser player has already committed to attacking you or intercepting your landing (before you actually have done anything indicative of committing to an option), then yeah, using a b reverse will get you out of that situation free.

We can catch bombs and any item that's thrown at us, really. Remember the post I made months ago about instant tossing items, and how it was useful in Brawl and how to apply it to this game? It's still in the game, and it's still just as useful as it was when I made the post lol

 

[MagiusNecros]

Might have to practice. Link only gives me trouble with his bombs. Since I can't punch them to make them go away or ride a Gale Boomerang current to make myself a moving hitbox.

 

[Cassius.]

Just walk and power shield them, or instant toss them (airdodge with l/r/z + c stick in any direction).

I can't remember if Link's bombs bounce off of shields, but some items do, and it's very important that you learn how to instant toss those. (ie bananas)

Example: block Diddy banana toss, then short hop air dodge to catch the banana + c stick to instant toss it back/up/wherever.

If you're having trouble in that MU I highly recommend that you practice that. It's helpful in a lot of other matchups besides the Link MU.

 

[link and ike lover]

Might have to practice. Link only gives me trouble with his bombs. Since I can't punch them to make them go away or ride a Gale Boomerang current to make myself a moving hitbox.

Link can be beat by bowser to. All you need is reads, pressure, and patience. If you have trouble approaching Link.Let him approach you. Then link wont have enough time to use his projectiles. If you see a link just using items just go to the other corner of the stage. And perfect sheilding is great as well!

B reversing is a nice option too, but it does have a decent amount of recovery afterward. Bowser's fast enough to still catch you.

If the Bowser player has already committed to attacking you or intercepting your landing (before you actually have done anything indicative of committing to an option), then yeah, using a b reverse will get you out of that situation free.

We can catch bombs and any item that's thrown at us, really. Remember the post I made months ago about instant tossing items, and how it was useful in Brawl and how to apply it to this game? It's still in the game, and it's still just as useful as it was when I made the post lol

Yea but usually he has his forward dash too. But they are really easy to get out of

 

[Karsticles]

Just walk and power shield them, or instant toss them (airdodge with l/r/z + c stick in any direction).

I can't remember if Link's bombs bounce off of shields, but some items do, and it's very important that you learn how to instant toss those. (ie bananas)

Example: block Diddy banana toss, then short hop air dodge to catch the banana + c stick to instant toss it back/up/wherever.

If you're having trouble in that MU I highly recommend that you practice that. It's helpful in a lot of other matchups besides the Link MU.

Instant Toss is new to me. Is it really instant, or does the air dodge have to resolve? Does Link recover before the bomb hits?

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ Karsticles C-stick tossing while air dodging will cancel the air dodge.

@ MrEh Yo, I see your 'zard vs ZSS. Brave man.

 

[Cassius.]

Instant Toss is new to me. Is it really instant, or does the air dodge have to resolve? Does Link recover before the bomb hits?

check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRv3VagcXVE

this as well. it's the same concept but p1's video explains it a bit better and shows the directly application of picking up an item and cancelling the frames w/a toss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7tIIDzlab8

 

[Karsticles]

check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRv3VagcXVE

this as well. it's the same concept but p1's video explains it a bit better and shows the directly application of picking up an item and cancelling the frames w/a toss https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7tIIDzlab8

Thank you!

 

[MrEh]

@ Karsticles C-stick tossing while air dodging will cancel the air dodge.

@ MrEh Yo, I see your 'zard vs ZSS. Brave man.

Sometimes you gotta SD with Dragon Rush like a man.

 

[MagiusNecros]

Sometimes you gotta SD with Dragon Rush like a man.

Bthrow > Dragon Rush won me a online tourney match so it's kinda worth it.

The opposing player was very salty.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

So I was messing around with Ryu. Ryu has this god-like jump, where he instantly tucks his entire body in as soon as he leaves the ground. I swear I've avoided more ground follow-ups this way than by rolling or spot dodging. Jump OoS became an incredible option. What madness is this...

 

[MrEh]

It's Ryu. We all know the best way to avoid ANY kind of followup is to mash DP.

 

[Cassius.]

Jump OOS is never a bad option

you just have to cancel it into Up-B ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[trombonophone99]

Can we talk about that true shoryuken tho. And how you can do it out of a jab/tilt. And how it kills at pre 90 or something.

True the range is short af but bruh. That's hype.

Also inb4 Sakurai pulls the nerf gun out on these sweet dlc chars and pulls a diddy on them.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ trombonophone99 lol Sakurai would have to be watching CEO and notice someone (coughzerocough) winning hard with them.

 

[Krysco]

YOUR WEIGHT IS MEANINGLESS TO THE PRINCESS OF THE MUSHROOM KINGDOM!

...Or, ya know, he could have probably airdodged or attacked or jumped or DIed...but the King of the Koopas died off the top at 12% all because of a trade.

 

[MagiusNecros]

That is the worst Bowser I have ever seen.

 

[herpyderpherper]

That is the worst Bowser I have ever seen.

you should of seen my Bowser when I first started playing, it would of given you complete cancer

 

[LIQUID12A]

I'm sure that all of our Bowsers were cancer inducing in their beginnings.

 

[trombonophone99]

Mine was only cancer inducing because I did drop shield up b, not jump up b, and then I rarely used up b OoS. Now i tend to overuse it.

;(

 

[MagiusNecros]

I'm sure that all of our Bowsers were cancer inducing in their beginnings.

Well I started Bowser casually in Brawl.

 

[Cassius.]

Going to try Tilt-Stick Bowser at Bum's house either today or next Tuesday. I realized I can finally do the old waveland dtilt tech we found a while back that we all thought was removed in 1.06/7 due to the change to the Cstick. And ppUTilt is actually pretty good with tilt stick also due to the buffs to the hitbox/speed. We already know perfect pivot DTilt is pretty good.

I would recommend using Tilt stick with Dash Slash for the same reason as above. Waveslashed tilt buffs + With the default C stick, the only thing you have access to is a wave slashed UpSmash (which is actually r i d i c u l o u s) but yeah.

If I'm extremely late to the party, please let me know. I haven't been playing this game lately lol

 

[MagiusNecros]

I don't use c stick for tilts.

Maybe I should try it.

 

[Zigsta]

More people need to abuse pivot grab to beat people who roll or stand up from the ledge. It's busted and makes people PISSED.

 

[MagiusNecros]

More people need to abuse pivot grab to beat people who roll or stand up from the ledge. It's busted and makes people PISSED.

~I know~

 

[MrEh]

I can't wait for hitbox data to become available for this game.

Bowser's pivot grab is some serious voodo magic.

 

[Xandercosm]

Hey, I love bowser too! I see I'm getting to the party a little late, though.

I'll try to hop in: I notice sometimes when playing For Glory that bowser seems kind of intimidating to less-skilled players. I find it makes matches way shorter and my opponent SDs more often. It's kind of strange how different characters and situations play with people psychologically...

 

[MagiusNecros]

I've scared people where they will actually give up and SD their second stock.

And the cool thing about Bowser is that even if you are losing you can still make a comeback. You are never out of the game until it is over.

 

[Cassius.]

Well yeah. If you give Bowser some rage, anything is possible. Just land three-five good hits and look for a bad defensive option that you can side-b, and voila--stock gone.

This is a lot easier at lower levels of play, too. People aren't really aware of what Bowser truly can and cannot do, and players at that level tend to over-emphasize certain traits that he has.

And I lied. I went to Bum's yesterday and didn't use tilt stick. I haven't sat down and played Smash 4 seriously since the last tournament I went to (April-May), so I just wanted to play from where I left off. I do urge you all to try tilt stick Bowser, though. Especially if you have really great movement and a good handle on movement mechanics. Bowser's pivot isn't anything to write home about, but his tilts (as of 1.08) cool for what it's worth, so it makes up for it.

I really need to make it out to more sitdowns/tournaments in general. I'm hungry for improvement, but I'm too busy handling life lol

 

[MrEh]

Utilt now functions as an insane anti-air against stuff that up-angled Ftilt doesn't reach. The faster recovery on Utilt means that you can usually keep your pressure up if your opponent air dodges it or something, which is excellent.

And if it trades, who cares? You're Bowser. The trade is most likely in your favor.

 

[herpyderpherper]

Why does pivot grab work as a ledge stand punish? Ive recently just been using whirling fortress because a 1 frame punish window is super hard to hit.
Also: if president Obama endorses Bowser does that mean all Bowsers players are sponsored by america?

 

[MagiusNecros]

Well I play Bowser and I am American so it may have some merit.

 

[UltimaLuminaire]

@ herpyderpherper The reason is because most people want to get up and shield. That's beaten straight up by grab and might as well be a 14 frame window. Fortress seems good, but say you misread a roll, or the opponent successfully shielded? Bam, instant 30% damage on Bowser, and possibly death. Pivot grab is far less punishable and helps you maintain stage control.

 

[herpyderpherper]

So i need to position myself so if they stand, i can grab them, and if they roll i can pivot grab, i saw a video of it, Bowsers pivot grab range is ridiculous

 

[MrEh]

Fortress is still fine for covering options. You just need to make sure you Fortress away from the ledge to match your opponent's getup timing. That way Fortress will catch rolls as well as neutral getups.

Keep in mind that pivot grab is superior if you predict a ledge drop or hop. It's a case by case basis.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Bowser's pivot grab has more range than Link's standing grab. Not sure if it still does, but nonetheless........ l0l

Edit: A bit offtopic but maybe relevant to some extent?

Bowser and Charizard often get compared to each other despite not being anything alike. Previously it was pretty obvious that Bowser was the better character, but with the Charizard buffs, now I'm not so sure. Charizard is faster, has a better anti-air, lands on the ground easier, better neutral game, better throws, has a better recovery... The only thing Bowser does better is grab (because range), side B and up B OoS.

idk I just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[MrEh]

It still amazes me how Melee Marth had more grab range than Yoshi.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

It still amazes me how Melee Marth had more grab range than Yoshi.

It's important.

​

This poor Yoshi be like... "Oh, ok".

Did Bowser get anything off roll cancelled pivots grabs before it was patched? Zelda and Palutena had comparable ranges to Bowser's current grab range.

 

[Cassius.]

Edit: A bit offtopic but maybe relevant to some extent?

Bowser and Charizard often get compared to each other despite not being anything alike. Previously it was pretty obvious that Bowser was the better character, but with the Charizard buffs, now I'm not so sure. Charizard is faster, has a better anti-air, lands on the ground easier, better neutral game, better throws, has a better recovery... The only thing Bowser does better is grab (because range), side B and up B OoS.

idk I just wanted to throw that out there.

You may be right (I'm not sure, wouldn't that mean that Charizard is suddenly a B-Tier character if he is better than Bowser? That would be splendid), but you also said it yourself in the first sentence--Bowser and Charizard are both pretty different characters lol. Even with the buffs, that is still true. There's no need to compare them really.

I never tried roll cancelled grabs with Bowser before. I only used it with Mac. It's still in the game, right?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

You may be right (I'm not sure, wouldn't that mean that Charizard is suddenly a B-Tier character if he is better than Bowser? That would be splendid), but you also said it yourself in the first sentence--Bowser and Charizard are both pretty different characters lol. Even with the buffs, that is still true. There's no need to compare them really.

I never tried roll cancelled grabs with Bowser before. I only used it with Mac. It's still in the game, right?

They're apparently still in the game but they're really hard to do. lol