Bowser Vs. Marth!?? Can it be done?

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

To concluse this,there is no possibly way for Bowser to have any Advantage over Marth,thus meaning there is no effective way to beating him.

Bowser can't do anything if Marth camps.

 

[JesiahTEG]

I^ completely agree^

 

[vincentninja68]

Marth's foward smash is the devil against Bowser.
And all my friend does is camp and forward smash, ****ing spammer..

 

[Micheloxx]

man just try to do something, dont be in air, try to grab and down throw, jump and hit from air when he is on the floow with n-air or n-air, try iy and tell me how is it going, i know marht its like a cliptonite for superman, but try it, it may be easier to win..

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

man just try to do something, dont be in air, try to grab and down throw, jump and hit from air when he is on the floow with n-air or n-air, try iy and tell me how is it going, i know marht its like a cliptonite for superman, but try it, it may be easier to lose..

Fixed it...

 

[smasher_25]

there is no way a bowser can beat a marth player of the same skill level, besides luck. Marths range and speed= dead bowser.

 

[~Tac~]

Ok, if it was Bowser vs. Marth. What's the point. I know Bowser may be slow and Marth is fast, but if your a great Bowser player. You may win, but still Marth may be fast, but his abilities are weak compared to Roy. It's like getting hit by a paper fan.

Marth's attacks are hardly similar to getting hit by a paper fan. Roy may be more powerful, but Marth is faster and has better comboing ability. This is why Marth is fourth from the top of the tier list and Roy is sixteenth.

no offense, but stfu

The reason Marth is so much higher on this fabled tier chart than Roy and everyone else is because all of his strength is at the tip of his sword. He's quick, and when used correctly has pretty wicked knockback and damage potential, PLUS he can combo insanely well. That's why Bowser does so bad. That, and he's Bowser

so even if marth's sword WAS a paper fan. he would still have the better matchup.
cause getting hit by a paper fan 20,000 times is better than getting koopa clawed once.

Multi-Owned.

 

[BDawgPHD]

man just try to do something, dont be in air, try to grab and down throw, jump and hit from air when he is on the floow with n-air or n-air, try iy and tell me how is it going, i know marht its like a cliptonite for superman, but try it, it may be easier to lose..

Fixed it...

hahahahhaha...*win*

yea, I seriously doubt a Bowser could beat a good Marth, except with EXTREME mind games and a stupid Marth.

 

[technomancer]

Any strats for playing for the draw?

 

[KevinM]

I've been looking for someone to help my guide with some Marth Character Help, i don't have any good marth's around.. a couple of c-stickers but thats nothing big

 

[Gimpyfish62]

this match isn't as unwinnable as you all think, you just have to out space marth

SIMPLE AS THAT lol

 

[E_Ress]

Brilliant!!!!

EDIT: As for strategies, assuming the Marth has the basics of smash down, I would think tilts are gonna be your best bet (Arash said it earlier, but that was during the whole "ROY>MARTH" mess). The only attack of Bowser's that I can ever imagine consistently outspacing some of Marth's moves is your D-Tilt. The sad part is, it would only be outspacing moves like his neutral A, not anything like his fsmash (this is assuming you're not already in a combo =P). U-Tilt would work for some early over-the-top KOs (unless you're on Dreamland 64), and F-tilt (angled up, as Arash suggested) can be handy in interrupting aerials (if they're spaced incorrectly, otherwise, GL).

In the air... no, just stay out of the air unless you think you've got a combo working (even then, Marth's fair is rediculously fast, be careful).

Depending on skill (and if the Marth isn't camping), I guess you COULD hope for a shield-grab on a missed L-cancel, but that really loses weight when the Marth SHDFairs or simply jumps away without fast-falling his first fair. In reality, Marth would only have to do a cross-up nair to prevent sheild-grabbing, Bowser really has nothing on Marth.

Using Fortress out of your shield is an absolute must, but it won't guarantee anything. Against a really good Marth (especially one good at spacing), even that seems hopeless.

Bottom line, if the Marth is any good at spacing, you should really try another character. Your best bets are using your tilts and fortress to max, but you'll still need to be quite a bit better than your opponent to consistently win this matchup.

 

[KevinM]

Haha... so in my character match-ups for the guide i'll just put

Vs. Marth- GIMPY SAYS OUTSPACE MARTH.. so let it be written, so let it be done

 

[Dogysamich]

this match isn't as unwinnable as you all think, you just have to out space marth

SIMPLE AS THAT lol

Yeah.

I know a bowser player than get go through marths, he's even gone through mine (although my marth is hot garbage).

He doesnt like the matchup, but he can do it.

And when he beat me, he did exactly what gimpy said. He outspaced me.

The only thing that's REALLY bad about marth is there's a range where you cant reach him and you get punished for being in (which is the main thing marth's obviously aim to set you up for).

To avoid it, in general, you're going to stay either in or out of that range; naturally. There isnt a character that really benefits from trading off with marth in his "danger range".

The hardest thing to watch out for is

#1- grab into tipper range

and

#2 - recovering into tipper range.

Those are the 2 places where good marths ***** the hell outta people.

For dealing with grabs, you just want to try your ****est not to get grabbed at low percents. You can actually afford to get grabbed at a high percent, you just have to be careful of how you DI. But at low percents, you have to watch grab - f.throw. Because that leads to either chain grabbing or a tipper, depending on what YOU do.

As for recovering, you just have to be tricky.

I dont really know the extent of bowser's recovery, so I cant give any specific advice. But I can tell you what kind of marth things you need to look for.

First thing is you obviously wont want to come in at marth's jump range, cause he'll try to f.air/n.air/d.air you. So if you HAVE to come in high, be ready to throw a sheikslap to defend yourself (i think bowser's is fast enough, and yes i know i called it a sheikslap, that's my general term for that move.)

The second thing you want to watch for is coming low. If you're aiming to sweetspot, that's when you'll see the d.tilt and f.smash. Both of which are bad punishments for being predictable, you just have to know what's coming.

Now, the part where marth really trips people up is the thing most people dont think about, you're actual recovery.

Most good marths will start taking steps back once you grab the ledge. Now normally speaking, if you see your opponent do this, you know they're usually setting you up for some sort of dash attack/grab/ shffl, or just giving you room to not punish them.

But marth on the other hand is setting you in his tipper range. So you have to make more of an effort to be tricky getting up the ledge than you would most other characters.
_______

So, imo. Beyond the obvious problem of not getting tipped, I think the time when most people are most vunerable to the tipper is when they're recovering. That's where marth has the best chance to exploit peoples' range without fear of getting punished.

That's the big advantage marth has over everybody. If you try to get up and punish him while he's stading out, you get tipped. If you try to roll past, you get hit. Maybe not tipped, but you get hit. You try to jump up, and you'll probably get hit. So you have to come up with safe ways to get back on the ledge while either making Marth guess wrong, or making him completely miss.

But, IMO, the worst thing you can try to do is ledgehop to an attack. Again, i dont know bowser well, so correct me if im wrong, but im pretty sure you cant ledgehop - f.air

 

[Gimpyfish62]

his 2 big points were "outspace marth"

get it? what i already said?
its hard,b ut possible, i'll try and record a few with forward when i see him on wednesday at skypals place

 

[DarkKnight077]

Bowser vs Marth? If Marth wasn't soo broken then maybe he had a chance. As for Phoniex, Link>>>Marth. Projectiles kill dummy.

 

[KevinM]

Dogy thats a nice little mini guide, mind if i grab it and credit you in the guide?

 

[Gimpyfish62]

its also riddled with false information because, as he said, he doesn't know bowser very well. lol



i think its interesting how everyone is advising everyone to stay grounded vs marth for the most part... i've seen other bowsers do it... i've tried it... from waht i've experienced that just doesn't work, you gotta out space him and get the right angles on him in the air, trading hits is DEFINITELY something that goes to your favor, just fyi, at any %.

whats gonna be more effective? ONE marth fair hitting with no chance of any follow up or ONE bowser fair hitting with no chance of follow up?

hm??

obviously bowsers, more %, and more knockback, genearlly if you trade hits at the right % you get a free techchase as well and you simply get knocked so you can waveland into the techchase lol

 

[KevinM]

gimpy sorry for being off topic but

He doesn't like starch get it

i don't lol

 

[MikeMoney]

Yeah was playin my marth friend the other day I think we did 2 matches and he 3 stocked me on FD >.< But I manged to only got 1 stocked on yoshi's For me the key is really just feeling the marth out the best you can and captalize on every single mistake.

 

[KevinM]

I'm doing a lot better with my friends Marth just by using different aerial mix-up attacks.. i always use the bowser bomb to surprise him from the air...

Yea ok disreguard the last part but seriously just mix up your aerial game and trade hits with the marth

 

[SoxSoxy1]

Yeah skill is a factor but i've smashed on a player using Mario(thier main) to be ***** by a mediocre Shiek or Marth.Now if i four-stocked them before and character matchups barely affect the game,then why did i lose.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

character matchups barely effect the game?

O.o

*asplodes*

 

[KevinM]

Yea gimpy you didn't hear... That tier list mumbo jumbo... garbage >.>

 

[thebluedeath1000]

*slowly puts gimpy back together*

Actually, my first fight against a bowser with marth, I won but didn't do too well..I really don't know what to do when he started comboing me, I was just in utter awe over it.

"I'm getting beaten down by a turtle demon, oh my god" was basicly all that was going through my head.

 

[SoxSoxy1]

It obviously does but that doesnt stop me from playing Boozer 100% of the time.It just sucks when i know i could have annialated someone with any other character.I play best with my Boozer but it sucks getting comboed like fifty times before i can even counter.(yeah DI would probably help im alright at it but not great.)I try not to complain about tier lists but when people talk tons of smack about beating me its hard not to pull out falco and butt **** em.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

basically saying "i could have annialated someone with any other character" is a ridiculous, and stupid john. play a different character or dont whine about a matchup that is solely your own fault.

 

[KevinM]

.... You make no sense...

 

[thebluedeath1000]

That was directed at who kevin?

Yeah, character johns aren't any good, its your own fault for picking him..now controller johns are fair game.

sox, you say it like bowser can't win though..you must not be raising him right.

 

[KevinM]

That was directed at sox...

Yea go look at my guide on how to raise the kutesttt boozer

SHAMELESS PLUG FOR THE WIN

 

[SoxSoxy1]

I dont mean i could beat ANYONE,i ment,that paticular player,in that paticular match.Keep in mind our play group knows nothing about wavedashes and priority.We just play.Obviosly If I played smarter I would have preformed better.Thiers a million things i could have done different to have improved my match but i didnt,my falt.And for changing my main?No way!One thing we can all agree is Boozer is the most fun to play.Even if i lose every match i ever play from now on i wouldnt change.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

or you can watch my videos in the GIMPYFISH VIDEO THREAD!

HERES A LINK!!!!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=96709

you can even see them on my wikipedia page!

www.smashwiki.com/wiki/gimpyfish

i'm better at shameless self promotion ;P

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Someone needs to rigg their controller with weak fireworks and a setup switch to make it explode..now that would be the ultimate john.

Gimpy, got a question, bowser's up-b fortress, does it clank with marth's f-tilt or does it go through? I can't remember as I've not fought a bowser in a long time.

 

[SoxSoxy1]

to the bluedeath100-No i donty mean he cant win i mean i win most matches i play with my play group regardless of character.that doesnt mean anything.I constantly try to improve my boozer and will continue if i lose i try to find a srategie to not fail again.(spacing,maybe my opponent doesnt avoid the Klaw).

 

[Gimpyfish62]

it'll ting with any of marth's ground moves

 

[SoxSoxy1]

I watch your videos all the time Gimpy.Thier awsome and i love seeing marths and shieks get smashed on.its what i aspire to eventually do.

 

[KevinM]

how dare you out promote me >.>

 

[Gimpyfish62]

spamming myself is the reason i'm known XD

 

[SoxSoxy1]

Kevin I've read some of your stuff too.Also great.I read,I learn,I practice,I improve.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

I eat and sleep, beat that sox

But yeah, keep with it, as mookierah said, "you've gotta believe in yourself!" well..hes a mewtwo player but you get the gist of it...