Bowser Jr. Was Almost Cut From Smash 4

[JagoTheTiger]

Patiently waiting for Isaac, K. Rool, and others. It's a crime that they aren't already in the game over garbage like Wii Fit Trainer, Dark Pit, and other "fan-favorites".

YEAH, King K. Rool would have been waaay better then having copycats like dark Pit and Stupid Lucina.
!! LIKE COME ON SAKURI !!

 

[Tino]

I wish they would've cut him from the game...but whatever.

 

[LancerStaff]

I still don't get why we thank Sakurai so much. He's a ****ty dev that just comsins about his fan base and despises making his own games. He brags about how quickly he can make movesets and designs, but pumps out uninspired and homogenized movesets over and over. Half the cast has a counter. Straight clones are in the roster, with no effort to differentiate semi clones even further. Why does Toon Link still have the spin attack up b, when there is clear source material in the deku leave that would be interesting and unique? He spent a lot of time reimagining movesets for already unique characters (bowser, zss, shiek, etc) instead of attributing that time to characters like Toon link or ganon, who could use some love and a luigi treatment to get some flair that makes their characters more true to themselves.

Sakurai is a bass ackwards dev who hates his move endearing/dedicated fan base, and he conplains about time restraints and hard work, problems which could probably be addressed by giving the project to someone who actually wants to do it.

Toon Link, like adult Link, represents young Links as a whole. That's why he has the Zelda staple items instead of the Deku Leaf and the like.

Ganondorf used a sword once, and otherwise his powers are generic powerful darkness stuff.

Shiek got a whopping two moves, Bowser had like five. And neither make the characters any more accurate to the source material. The only character changed to be more accurate was Pit, but he required a total rehaul anyway because his camping power was way too strong.

He probably calls the Smash fanbase children for people like you, all complainy and failing to spell every other word correctly.

YEAH, King K. Rool would have been waaay better then having copycats like dark Pit and Stupid Lucina.
!! LIKE COME ON SAKURI !!

Do you really think he had the time for anything but clones?

 

[MP8]

Mewtwo making it in as DLC was very clutch.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Every single newcomer, besides Duck Hunt (who is the retro character for this game) has had at least one major role since Brawl.

Rosalina - Galaxy, Galaxy 2
Bowser Jr. - Galaxy, Galaxy 2, New Super Rehash Bros
Palutena - Uprising
Robin - Awakening
Little Mac - Punch-Out!! (Wii)
Greninja - Pokémon X & Y
Villager - Animal Crossing City Folk, New Leaf
Wii Fit Trainer - Wii Fit
Dark Pit - Uprising
Lucina - Awakening
Shulk - Xenoblade
Pac-Man - Ghostly Adventures (The Pac is Baaaa-aaaaa-aaaack!)
Mega Man - Mega Man 9, Mega Man 10

Now let's look at some characters that were wanted, but didn't make the cut.
Let's see what their last appearance was (not counting spin-offs).

Dixie Kong/King K. Rool (TF is too recent, roster chosen 2012) - Donkey Kong 64, 1999
Samurai Goroh/Black Shadow - F-Zero GX, 2003
Yoshi Newcomer (Baby Bros., Kamek) - Yoshi's Island DS, 2006

If course, there were some characters that were wanted that did have an appearance after a Brawl, but were just deemed too obscure, like Isaac, whose last appearance was in 2010.

 

[LordCQ]

Every single newcomer, besides Duck Hunt (who is the retro character for this game) has had at least one major role since Brawl.

Rosalina - Galaxy, Galaxy 2
Bowser Jr. - Galaxy, Galaxy 2, New Super Rehash Bros
Palutena - Uprising
Robin - Awakening
Little Mac - Punch-Out!! (Wii)
Greninja - Pokémon X & Y
Villager - Animal Crossing City Folk, New Leaf
Wii Fit Trainer - Wii Fit
Dark Pit - Uprising
Lucina - Awakening
Shulk - Xenoblade
Pac-Man - Ghostly Adventures (The Pac is Baaaa-aaaaa-aaaack!)
Mega Man - Mega Man 9, Mega Man 10

Now let's look at some characters that were wanted, but didn't make the cut.
Let's see what their last appearance was (not counting spin-offs).

Dixie Kong/King K. Rool (TF is too recent, roster chosen 2012) - Donkey Kong 64, 1999
Samurai Goroh/Black Shadow - F-Zero GX, 2003
Yoshi Newcomer (Baby Bros., Kamek) - Yoshi's Island DS, 2006

If course, there were some characters that were wanted that did have an appearance after a Brawl, but were just deemed too obscure, like Isaac, whose last appearance was in 2010.

Yoshi's Wolly World has not even been released yet.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Yoshi's Wolly World has not even been released yet.

That's a stage though, and one that Samurai said they rushed to get in.

According to Mashpotato, the characters take a full year each to develop.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Fascinating. It's really neat to see Jr. around after all, as well as the all Koopalings that got in by that regard. Still will be always happy for Lemmy in my Sm4sh.

 

[Altais]

Interesting article. As much as I would like to know which characters were originally planned but were ultimately cut, I can fully understand why Sakurai will not reveal said characters; fans would go insane.

Personally, I really like what they've done with Koopa Jr, in terms of moveset. Him using the Koopa Clown Car really fits his character, since, unlike his papa, Jr tends to fight with his machines and whatnot.

Anyhow, until Sakurai confirms that Mewtwo will be the only downloadable fighter, I am not giving up hope for Isaac.

 

[EndlessRain]

the characters that don't have a new title coming up have an overwhelming disadvantage

captain falcon

Falcon is a vet, and probably the most beloved character in the game. If he is ever cut, there will be a mod that does nothing but add him back in.

Actually, this is probably just confirmation of a new F-Zero. Woot.

 

[link2702]

should of cut bowser jr and kept just the koopalings instead.

 

[Soft Serve]

Toon Link, like adult Link, represents young Links as a whole. That's why he has the Zelda staple items instead of the Deku Leaf and the like.

Ganondorf used a sword once, and otherwise his powers are generic powerful darkness stuff.

Shiek got a whopping two moves, Bowser had like five. And neither make the characters any more accurate to the source material. The only character changed to be more accurate was Pit, but he required a total rehaul anyway because his camping power was way too strong.

He probably calls the Smash fanbase children for people like you, all complainy and failing to spell every other word correctly.



Do you really think he had the time for anything but clones?

Beautiful ad hominem, really solidifies your counter argument, expecially because it's completely unrelated to what I said. I don't know how you got "children" out of me saying he hates the competetive fan base.
My point still holds that if the project was given to someone who actually wanted to do it, there would be more charm and innovation in the game, instead of complaints/posts about how much work it is and how little time he had to work with deadlines.

 

[Gangsta_inc]

Beautiful ad hominem, really solidifies your counter argument, expecially because it's completely unrelated to what I said. I don't know how you got "children" out of me saying he hates the competetive fan base.
My point still holds that if the project was given to someone who actually wanted to do it, there would be more charm and innovation in the game, instead of complaints/posts about how much work it is and how little time he had to work with deadlines.

Man **** all the politics I expected the roster to be filler, I just want my proper fuggin Daisy skin.

 

[EgeDal]

Gotta make sure those important characters get in, like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. Make sure our time and resources are put to good use.

Dr.Mario's addition is silly imo, but Dark Pit is an important character in Kid Icarus Uprising, which definitely will have a sequel

 

[PhantomShab]

I wish they would've cut him from the game...but whatever.

Bowser Jr is far more deserving of being in Smash than Rosalina tbh.

Ganondorf used a sword once

That is false.

Greninja moveset designed overnight by Sakurai's imagination from art works he got.
Palutena every custom is unique.
Pit get new moves.
Bowser get a huge revamp to his move set.
Zero suit get a huge revamp to her move set.
DK get his iconic roll dash
Etc.
Mega Man, Pac Man and Duck Hunt Dog get major love put into their move sets to really show their respective universes and canons.

And.... Ganondorf is still a clone with not one new move from brawl (customs don't count). How about some love for Ganondorf fans... Seriously the blatant disregard to make Ganondorf unique is astounding especially since Sakurai puts so much effort and love into some character while other get the shaft...
Can some one at Bandai Namco (or anyone else that works with Sakurai) tell him to change him already. Reading his awesome inspiration about Greninja's move set only pisses me off. Because Sakurai is so talented but keeps making the laziest choices on some characters.

Rant over sorry guys.
Just my 2 cents

It really is quite amazing, yeah.

 

[SmashBros50]

My theory on those planned characters that were cut is that they were made into assist trophies. To support this theory, the assist trophies now can be hit which may mean at one point they could have been in the game and still have the data to register hits.

 

[Vaidya]

Bowser Jr. allowed me to live like So respect that he got in by a hair.

Dr. Mario and Mewtwo returning only fuels my hope for Young Link to return. Hopefully, they tinker with him so they can get him to be different than Link, despite the odds. Hell, I'll take him as a Melee clone.

...I'll take Rayman too, but I'll just stop there.

There is literally nothing good about Young Link. The demand for him is ridiculous. Toon Link is much more worthy.

 

[TheFadedWarrior]

Is Sakurai doing interviews literally every day?

 

[Raheem The Dream]

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Geno...3DSWii-U-verisons/1722501687975421?fref=photo & https://www.facebook.com/pages/Shan...s-in-Smash-4-3DSWii-U-version/769600476420657

 

[LancerStaff]

That is false.

Are you counting HW or the Spaceworld ones? They don't really count... Ganondorf only used a sword once.

 

[Gangsta_inc]

Dr.Mario's addition is silly imo, but Dark Pit is an important character in Kid Icarus Uprising, which definitely will have a sequel

No.

the spot shoulda went to a villain. like Medusa or Hades.
Hell even Amazon Pandora woulda been fine.

 

[EgeDal]

No.

the spot shoulda went to a villain. like Medusa or Hades.
Hell even Amazon Pandora woulda been fine.

Sorry, for a second i forgot you were qualified to make better decisions than Sakurai.

 

[LancerStaff]

No.

the spot shoulda went to a villain. like Medusa or Hades.
Hell even Amazon Pandora woulda been fine.

The point is that Dark Pit is a quick and easy clone. Hades is too big lol, and Pandora doesn't really have anybody to go off of.

And he's pretty darned important, having two chapters devoted to him.

 

[_Ganondorf_]

Ganondorf used a sword once, and otherwise his powers are generic powerful darkness stuff.

What Zelda game did you play?

"Powerful Generic darkness stuff"... What?!?!

There is no "darkness powers" in Zelda.
There is magic and Ganon uses curses and spells. For which of are usually electrical looking or fire. I OoT he uses one move that resembles the darkness effect in smash. One time,

Also he uses a trident as Pig Ganon.
Duel wield Swords as beast Ganon in OoT. Human form flies/hovers while he shoots projectiles than when Link is close punches the ground to create a magical shockwave.
Wind Waker - duel wielding swords
TP - becomes formless orb of magical energy (orange color btw).
Beast Ganon, summons ghost soldiers, controls Zelda's body and hovers and shoots projectiles (electrical based), uses a long sword to battle link cause guess what he is a sword expert him self. Gerudo tribe are known to be combat experts (duel wielding/swords especially).

So your statement couldn't be more wrong, about using "a sword once" and except the one move (which he used once) in OoT there are no "darkness powers".

People need to stop defending Sakurai he was rushed for time in Melee. Anything beyond that regarding Ganondorf is laziness and outright disservice to the character/series and fans for as many smash Ganon fans there are there are more that want him to change.
And with a change he would also gain more fans. Enough is enough it's time for a change. Both for Ganondorf AND for the games director Sakurai should step down he can't really contribute any more to the series.

 

[DeiSakuChris]

I still hope the release of Starfox Wii U and the possibly left out data of Wolf in the game convince them to still make him, Smash Bros isn't the same without him. I know people will say it's just a video game, but when I replayed Brawl this past day with Wolf it really touched me in the feels.

 

[LancerStaff]

What Zelda game did you play?

"Powerful Generic darkness stuff"... What?!?!

There is no "darkness powers" in Zelda.
There is magic and Ganon uses curses and spells. For which of are usually electrical looking or fire. I OoT he uses one move that resembles the darkness effect in smash. One time,

Also he uses a trident as Pig Ganon.
Duel wield Swords as beast Ganon in OoT. Human form flies/hovers while he shoots projectiles than when Link is close punches the ground to create a magical shockwave.
Wind Waker - duel wielding swords
TP - becomes formless orb of magical energy (orange color btw).
Beast Ganon, summons ghost soldiers, controls Zelda's body and hovers and shoots projectiles (electrical based), uses a long sword to battle link cause guess what he is a sword expert him self. Gerudo tribe are known to be combat experts (duel wielding/swords especially).

So your statement couldn't be more wrong, about using "a sword once" and except the one move (which he used once) in OoT there are no "darkness powers".

People need to stop defending Sakurai he was rushed for time in Melee. Anything beyond that regarding Ganondorf is laziness and outright disservice to the character/series and fans for as many smash Ganon fans there are there are more that want him to change.
And with a change he would also gain more fans. Enough is enough it's time for a change. Both for Ganondorf AND for the games director Sakurai should step down he can't really contribute any more to the series.

Sorry, I'm too used to people with picky definitions. Ganondorf used one sword once and two a separate time. Otherwise, he uses rather generic spells and junk. Gannon is not Ganondorf, and Ganondorf with a sword would just riff on Ike too much.

 

[Tino]

Bowser Jr is far more deserving of being in Smash than Rosalina tbh.

I'm gonna have to disagree on that...but that's just my opinion.

 

[C-SAF]

There is literally nothing good about Young Link. The demand for him is ridiculous. Toon Link is much more worthy.

Compromise and get rid of both. They are both just little clones of link.

 

[Vaidya]

Compromise and get rid of both. They are both just little clones of link.

Who cares, this game is a novelty title that represents Nintendo characters.

 

[LiamMail]

@CyberHyperPhoenix @Aninymouse oops.

 

[Swiftie_Muggle]

That's why they revived Dixie Kong and the Koopalings, right?

Believe it or not, some people want beloved Nintendo icons in the game, not just whatever Nintendo happens to be advertising at the time.

And the majority of people who buy Wii Fit aren't buying Smash Bros. At best, it's some parents buying it for their kids when all they want is Smash Bros.

Except , that Dixie Kong was never forgotten the way K.Rool is. Dixie Kong Still appeared in Mario Super Star Baseball , Mario Super Sluggers and Diddy Kong Racing along with Tiny Kong meanwhile K.Rool was never touched again after one last apperance in MSS. Not to mention antagonist in videogames are way more reemplaceable than Protagonists. Also thinking that the people who play Wii Fit don't play Smash too is just as delusional as it gets , one thing is playing the game another is playing it competitively , but it's still for EVERYONE ; get off that horse.

 

[FangedSniper]

Thanks Sakurai and the team, I always wanted to play as bowser Jr. In smash bros. Looking back at how big golden sun is makes me think Isaac will be in as Dlc, the franchise is sort of like the Portables earthbound(3 games, beloved characters, RPG and underrated)

Portable Earthbound? Hmmm, that is a surprisingly good analogy!

 

[MYU2]

I have a feeling that Isaac, Ray & Jill were going to be playable at one point which might explain their disappearances. A RH character was possibly in the works (Chorus Kids, Marshal or Karate Joe) due to the fact that in Smash Run playable characters have an enemy, the only series without a character to coincide with an enemy being Rhythm Heaven.

 

[PhantomShab]

I'm gonna have to disagree on that...but that's just my opinion.

Well why do you feel that way? Tbh Nintendo has just been shoehorning Rosalina into everything (did she really need a friggin baby form in MK8?) recently to pander to her fanbase. Bowser Jr on the other hand, has been a reoccurring character and villain since his debut 2 console generations ago. Plus with him, he also brings a classic cast of Mario villains that are now being put back into the spotlight a bit more. Not to mention the uniqueness Bowser Jr's moveset has. I'd rather have Smash Bros' first vehicle-based fighter over not-Ice Climbers with an annoying meat shield to hide behind.

I know this is all opinion, but you come across as downplaying Bowser Jr a bit is all.

Are you counting HW or the Spaceworld ones? They don't really count... Ganondorf only used a sword once.

Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Like, what are you even going on about? lol

Gannon is not Ganondorf

Yes, he is. No offense, but how qualified do you think you are to make these claims when you can't even spell the character's name right?

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Without Bowser Jr., the Koopalings wouldn't be here. I'm glad Bowser Jr. made the cut.

Me too. Wendy is one of my mains.

 

[Tino]

Well why do you feel that way? Tbh Nintendo has just been shoehorning Rosalina into everything (did she really need a friggin baby form in MK8?) recently to pander to her fanbase. Bowser Jr on the other hand, has been a reoccurring character and villain since his debut 2 console generations ago. Plus with him, he also brings a classic cast of Mario villains that are now being put back into the spotlight a bit more. Not to mention the uniqueness Bowser Jr's moveset has. I'd rather have Smash Bros' first vehicle-based fighter over not-Ice Climbers with an annoying meat shield to hide behind.

I know this is all opinion, but you come across as downplaying Bowser Jr a bit is all.

Look, I'm not gonna lie to you when I say this. Even though Rosalina will always be my all time favorite Mario character ever (mainly because of her background story and personality), I'm not too thrilled about her having a baby counterpart of herself. Just like Baby Daisy in Mario Kart Wii, Baby Rosalina was just another random character Nintendo just threw in there just to expand the roster or whatever their reason was (the same applies with Pink Gold Peach). And to answer your question as to "Why I feel this way", Bowser Jr. has always been one of my least favorite Mario character ever mainly because of how much of a spoiled brat he is and I don't see him as much of a villain as his father is. And what so unique about his gimmicky movesets when all he does is ride around in his little toy with gadgets instead of fighting with his bare hands like the rest of the cast? This "first vehicle based fighter" is perhaps the main reason why I rarely see him online.

Again, this is just my opinion.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Gotta make sure those important characters get in, like Dr. Mario and Dark Pit. Make sure our time and resources are put to good use.

Oh look, another ignorant soul who thinks he knows better about game design.

 

[Gangsta_inc]

The point is that Dark Pit is a quick and easy clone. Hades is too big lol, and Pandora doesn't really have anybody to go off of.

And he's pretty darned important, having two chapters devoted to him.

Not sure if srs.

That would be two out of 25?

So does that means Magnus was a chapter short of being relevant?

We know what the point of Dark pit, that doesn't excuse the fact that it comes across as lazy work.

There is really no reason DP and Lucina and Doc couldn't be relegated to skins.

Personally out of the myriad of assist trophies that are I can't look to smash4 Roster and say "yes these clones surely deserve the spot over these guys."

 

[LancerStaff]

Well why do you feel that way? Tbh Nintendo has just been shoehorning Rosalina into everything (did she really need a friggin baby form in MK8?) recently to pander to her fanbase. Bowser Jr on the other hand, has been a reoccurring character and villain since his debut 2 console generations ago. Plus with him, he also brings a classic cast of Mario villains that are now being put back into the spotlight a bit more. Not to mention the uniqueness Bowser Jr's moveset has. I'd rather have Smash Bros' first vehicle-based fighter over not-Ice Climbers with an annoying meat shield to hide behind.

I know this is all opinion, but you come across as downplaying Bowser Jr a bit is all.


Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. Like, what are you even going on about? lol


Yes, he is. No offense, but how qualified do you think you are to make these claims when you can't even spell the character's name right?

Considering you quoted an older post of mine instead of what I just posted...

Er, Ganon and Gannondorf. I always goof them up since I've always pronounced Ganon as Gan-non as a child.

Not sure if srs.

That would be two out of 25?

So does that means Magnus was a chapter short of being relevant?

We know what the point of Dark pit, that doesn't excuse the fact that it comes across as lazy work.

There is really no reason DP and Lucina and Doc couldn't be relegated to skins.

Personally out of the myriad of assist trophies that are I can't look to smash4 Roster and say "yes these clones surely deserve the spot over these guys."

Dark Pit had starred in two chapters, and appeared in about five more to do something important.

The ATs couldn't of been characters because there wasn't enough time, dude. No amount of complaining or "clones should of been costumes" would of given Sakurai enough time to do anything but make a few costumes into clones.

Oh, and there's infinitely more fans of the clones then haters. Sakurai made a good choice in including them.

 

[LasermasterA]

I don't mind Bowser Jr's inclusion but I do mind the fact that Isaac was not one of the people included. Considering Sakurai said there were people not included in from the big draft and how Isaac, Ray and Jill's trophies are missing, it is likely that they were cut out in the initial planning process.

I still hope that Nintendo does release DLC after Mewtwo so we can get characters who didn't make the initial cut. And Sakurai does not restrict the process in his stubbornness. He has made worse decisions before.