Bowser has no good match ups

[DiasFlac]

Lets face it Bowser has no good match up aside from Ike ,Ganondorf and maybe Sonic.

Every character in the game has a great advantage over Bowser. DK moves are much faster then Bowser's and he can kill faster then Bowser can. Sure Bowser has firebreath but a good DK player wouldn't fall for that move knowing they can beat it out with shorthop bair's.

A good Kirby will abuse Bowser's more grounded game with aerial attacks and make sure he DI just so you can't Up B him out of shield. (not to mention he can suck your power and use it against you and if you've Bowser ditto with anyone you know that Firebreath on Bowser = pain)

Captain Falcon Fair (Lighten Knee) is easier to hit on Bowser and he's tough to catch in the air. Brawl a good C.Falcon to get a better understand of this.

Even tho Bowser is one of the worst characters in the game I will still main him till the end and I'm sure you will to.

I just wanted to point out to all of the Bowser mains who think Bowser has a lot of good match ups the fact that he doesn't.

I used to think Metaknight was a good match up for Bowser but then I brawled my first good Metaknight player. A Metaknight that is great at DIing his attacks, using his quick and hard to control (hard to control for Bowser I mean) moves to his advantage, and abusing Metaknights almost if not godly edgehogging game is not a good match up for Bowser at all.

If you ever brawled a Metaknight you know to use quick moves, Firebreath and Up B and you probably find it hard to beat even the lamest of Metaknight players but if you thought it was tough beating a newb metaknight try facing a good one. (can you say 3 to 2stocked?)

Even so we're keep doing all that we can to help each other beat our bad and worst match ups by learning from the loses we take but don't blame yourself when you lose to that Yoshi that 2stocked you because he's great at using his Eggs and high priority to his advantage just remember that your using a character that has it rough all over.

A hand shake in the end and Good Game with no complaints to how the other player beat you is what we as good Bowser players and Good players all together will continue to do.

but yeah this topic was mostly just to point out that Bowser has no good match ups. Guess I should say imo he has no good match ups incase someone strongly disagrees

Keep Brawling!!

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Bowsers pretty dang good in my opinion. Hes pretty fast especially with his AA combo and has some good killing moves and isnt killed as easily as most. His F-tilt has good range same with the down one. I dont see whats so bad about him hes got an aerial grab that does 18%. That is powerful and my friend does it when hes jumping back to the stage and I go to B-air him with wolf he just grabs me and ground pounds me in the stage.

 

[DiasFlac]

Bowsers pretty dang good in my opinion. Hes pretty fast especially with his AA combo and has some good killing moves and isnt killed as easily as most. His F-tilt has good range same with the down one. I dont see whats so bad about him hes got an aerial grab that does 18%. That is powerful and my friend does it when hes jumping back to the stage and I go to B-air him with wolf he just grabs me and ground pounds me in the stage.

Yeah he's great dont get me wrong but its why other characters are better then him and why they beat him out.

Trust me I love Bowser which is why he's one of my mains. :bigthumbu

haha nothing is more fun then flying slamming someone onto the cliff.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Your logic makes no sense. So bowser sucks but hes good?

In my opinion bowser is good because my friend sure beats me with him.

 

[DiasFlac]

Your logic makes no sense. So bowser sucks but hes good?

In my opinion bowser is good because my friend sure beats me with him.

He's not that great against other characters.

He's great character imo but against other characters he has it bad.

My logic makes sense you just have to read and understand it better. Don't jump so quickly to say what I said makes no real sense.

Simply put.

I believe Bowser is a great character but against other characters he has it bad in so many ways. Just because your friend beats you all the time with Bowser doesn't mean he's the best against that certain character you were using.

It just means your either still learning or not as good as your friend is.

I win a lot of matches using Bowser but I lose to the same characters when their being played by someone who knows that character and how to take advantage of Bowser better then the last guy I've brawled.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Your logic makes no sense. So bowser sucks but hes good?

In my opinion bowser is good because my friend sure beats me with him.

Bowser is an extremely good character, but he has qualities that other characters can abuse. My freind mains bowser and he's pretty good with this dumb turtle, but most characters have a move that abuse's bowsers big size and weight.

Although you may not believe me, when it somes to fox vs bowser it's pretty equal provided bowser knows wtf he's doing. Too many times have i gotten and airiel or approach destroyed by a well timed up-B.

Ya guys got some good things going for ya, but also some bad things too.

 

[Resident_Smash_Genius]

He's got a good thing going against fox, actually. Aside from blaster spam Bowser's almost unapproachable for fox. It's kinda funny actually.

I'm no Bowser expert but I do count him in my top 5 characters. I usually just.... "trdae hits" against faster characters. Good MK's are tough though... mostly off the stage....

EDIT: LOL didn't read the guy above me! But clearly I'm not crazy to think fox has it tough.

 

[KevinM]

Seriously guys, basing match-ups off if your friends is stupid

 

[trafficwarden99]

KevinM wins.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

I still dont get whats so bad about bowser. He seems pretty dang good to me and a good character. Hes fast and tough that AA combo is speedier then a LOT of things. I still dont see how bowser is a bad character hes fast, tough, and has decent aerial moves like f-air and up-air.

 

[DiasFlac]

I still dont get whats so bad about bowser. He seems pretty dang good to me and a good character. Hes fast and tough that AA combo is speedier then a LOT of things. I still dont see how bowser is a bad character hes fast, tough, and has decent aerial moves like f-air and up-air.

Once again guy. Its why other character are better then him, what they have him beat in and why they have him beat.

Bowser is a great character this is true but when put up against the majority of the SSBB cast he falls short compared.

KevinM got it right when he said don't base character match ups by playing your friends. You have to play other people outside of your friend circle. Players on these forums or any other Brawl match making forum so you can play against players who use the same characters your friends do at a better level.

I strongly believe my Bowser is at his best don't get me wrong I learn something new and I'm still improving with him every day but when I brawl someone who is using a character like lets say JigglyPuff. I notice how horrible Bowser is in that kind of match up.

That JigglyPuff I'm brawling has me beat with quick aerial attacks at which Bowser isn't to good at and the fact that Bowser is such a big target makes it so he doesn't have to be to precise when trying to land a hit on me not to mention how much easier it is for him to hit Jigs best move "Rest" on Bowser seeing he has lag in 99% of his attacks and the fact that he has a huge hitbox area.

Flamebreath will not work on a good Jig's player. Jigglypuff is in the air 99% of the time and seeing how much time it takes to aim that flamebreath upward so you can stop his appoach makes it so he can punish you before you even think of saying "Ima flamebreath him now"

You'd think "Jigs is always in the air so I'll beat him out with my aerial attacks" but remember Jigglypuffs aerial come out faster and they hit harder then Bowser's does plus your be making it easier for him to gimp your recovery.

Word of advice when brawling a good Jig's DON'T GET KNOCKED OFF THE CLIFF. I learned that the hard way xD

I'm not saying you CAN'T beat these characters I'm saying that the odds are greatly stacked against you. You can win in these brawls but your have to outwit your opponent by a big margin compared to how much he has to think when it comes to brawling your Bowser.

 

[S_B]

I've said it before, but I think Bowser needed super armor in just a few of his moves (maybe 2, tops) and he'd have been of a higher tier.

Specifically, I think his down+B should've had super armor on the way down: that way, it guarantees that Bowser has a scary move he can hit players with in the air, a move which is GUARANTEED to get him back to the ground and to his ground game again. Right now, characters with disjointed hitboxes can easily keep him in the air.

The sad truth is, Bowser can still be utterly molested by characters which have him beat in speed (especially those with fast yet incredibly powerful smash attacks).

Even then, most of his killing moves have punishable lag and, as a result, depending upon the matchup, Bowser can't use certain moves without opening himself to an easy KO, like Jigg's rest or Luigi's Uppercut.

I win most of my matches with Bowser and he's my main for life, no question, but even I acknowledge that he's not top-tier material and has more disadvantages than advantages.

 

[slickmasterizzy]

your not giving firebreath enough credit.

say someone is coming towards you in the air and you jump>firebreath.

because they are in the air they cant roll away all they can do is airdodge...which if they do they are STILL going forward so will just end up taking more damage from your firebreath.

plus edgeguarding with firebreath is awesome too.

so they are hanging onto the ledge and you start spamming firebreath they have a few choices

wait until the invincibility runs out and take damage
jump and take damage
attack and take damage
or roll and take damage

if you time it right and are in a good location its even possible to see them begin the roll and stop firebreath in time to f-tilt or b-tilt

i find myself using just the basic AA combo a lot it does decent damage and has good knockback

oh and finally. bowser is the ONLY PERSON with an air grab.

he can approach someone from the air without fear of being shield grabbed.

they are standing there>jump towards them over-b
they shield=grab
they roll=time to run or attack
they dodge=AA combo once their dodge runs out

im not saying im for or against the fact that bowser has "good " matchups

but even if he didnt that doesnt automatically mean he is a bad character to use against everyone.

i mean if one character was REALLY good against 3 SSBB characters but sucked against all the rest would that make that character "better"

by your logic of course? =p

bowser has to switch up his moves and strategy more so then most characters, ill give you that.

but that doesnt mean he is bad
it just means that a new player will have a harder time learning to play bowser then they would a character which they could just abuse the same moves over and over.

bowser is the worst character ive found to play online when theres even the slightest of lag though haha

 

[residentevilrulz]

Lol you're crazy. Bowser is hella good in Brawl. There are no matchups for him that downright suck. He's got a fighting chance against anyone

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

He's got a good thing going against fox, actually. Aside from blaster spam Bowser's almost unapproachable for fox. It's kinda funny actually.

I'm no Bowser expert but I do count him in my top 5 characters. I usually just.... "trdae hits" against faster characters. Good MK's are tough though... mostly off the stage....

EDIT: LOL didn't read the guy above me! But clearly I'm not crazy to think fox has it tough.

Yeah, i know a bit about fox. Not gonna lie about this... but it isn't completely unapproachable. The fox can DI over to the otherside of bowser on some air attacks and only have to worry about his up-b. But approach is really hard regardless.

Seriously guys, basing match-ups off if your friends is stupid

Ahhh, that's true but he's the only Bowser player that i know around here. He goes to Parallax with me... so he isn't terrible.

 

[Sosuke]

Bowser sucks. lets just face it. sorry. And telling from my name you know its hard for me to say that -_-.
This doesn't mean people can't be good with Bowser, anyone can beat anyone with any charecter. Its just that Bowser in general isn't so good.

 

[DiasFlac]

your not giving firebreath enough credit.

say someone is coming towards you in the air and you jump>firebreath.

because they are in the air they cant roll away all they can do is airdodge...which if they do they are STILL going forward so will just end up taking more damage from your firebreath.

plus edgeguarding with firebreath is awesome too.

so they are hanging onto the ledge and you start spamming firebreath they have a few choices

wait until the invincibility runs out and take damage
jump and take damage
attack and take damage
or roll and take damage

if you time it right and are in a good location its even possible to see them begin the roll and stop firebreath in time to f-tilt or b-tilt

i find myself using just the basic AA combo a lot it does decent damage and has good knockback

oh and finally. bowser is the ONLY PERSON with an air grab.

he can approach someone from the air without fear of being shield grabbed.

they are standing there>jump towards them over-b
they shield=grab
they roll=time to run or attack
they dodge=AA combo once their dodge runs out

im not saying im for or against the fact that bowser has "good " matchups

but even if he didnt that doesnt automatically mean he is a bad character to use against everyone.

i mean if one character was REALLY good against 3 SSBB characters but sucked against all the rest would that make that character "better"

by your logic of course? =p

bowser has to switch up his moves and strategy more so then most characters, ill give you that.

but that doesnt mean he is bad
it just means that a new player will have a harder time learning to play bowser then they would a character which they could just abuse the same moves over and over.

bowser is the worst character ive found to play online when theres even the slightest of lag though haha

I know Bowser up,down,left,right, side to side trust me when I say that the Firebreath approach isn't as great as you make it out to be. The move has lag on the start up and the end of it. All characters can DI into very quickly and punish Bowser because of the ending lag thats on it

Characters like Luigi,Jigglypuff,Marth,Metaknight,Mario,Shiek,Zelda,Charizard,Squitle,Ike,Wario can DI into the Firebreath then punish Bowser badly. (all characters can do it but with some its better to just DI out of it) Its sad how horrible that move really is if you think about it. You have to really know when to use that move in order for you to avoid being punish for it. I usually do a flame tickle.

Firebreath as an edgehog is good but once they hit the cliff they can just keep falling down then going up and repeat till the firebreath range gets smaller and smaller. Try it on a couple of players in wifi matches your see what I mean.

I believe one of the main things of maining a character is to know their goods and bads and admit whether they suck compared to other characters or not.

I can admit when it comes to facing off against other characters Bowser sucks this doesn't mean he can't win these battles but it means that the odds are greatly stacked against him. Your have a much harder time brawling a good opponent who is using any character other then Ike and Ganondorf (and maybe Sonic) then they will while brawling Bowser.

It does feel great when you beat a good player with Bowser because it shows that your learning how to get around his weakness and use them to your advantage but in the end your still going to have a very tough time.

I'm not even going to get into Bowser vs Campers because if you have ever brawled any character that can spam projectiles with Bowser then you already know how that is.

A tactic I find useful is playing very patiently when brawling a good player with Bowser. I'm not saying you can't brawl aggressively but whenever I've tried it they usually pwn me badly but then again I've been playing defense for so long I don't really know how to play offensively.

Bowser for life!

 

[S_B]

I'm Bowser for life, personally.

Do I acknowledge that I could do better with a higher tier character? Sure, but so long as I'm not going to tourneys, I don't exactly care.

Besides, when some hardcore tourneyf*g gets his Falco beat by my Bowser, I'm sure it drives him insane.

 

[Sosuke]

Ok, all you guys are starting to do is point out positive point on Bowser, he has negatives too ya know. And other characters have better positives. -_-

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Ok, all you guys are starting to do is point out positive point on Bowser, he has negatives too ya know. And other characters have better positives. -_-

Bowser boards, you think they're gona bash their own character. He aint bad... just leave them be. :D

 

[Excellence]

Lol you're crazy. Bowser is hella good in Brawl. There are no matchups for him that downright suck. He's got a fighting chance against anyone

Haha, no. Lucas = Dead Bowser

 

[Popertop]

No.
I haven't seen a lucas using ATs effectively yet, but...
Not really.

 

[Excellence]

Then you need to play a friend of mine named "STUD" I can give you his FC and tell him to be on.

 

[acv]

bowser has a bad matchup against himself but wouldnt that make it a good matchup.wtf

 

[BadGuy]

Lucas, olimar, wolf, falco, link, game and watch are all characters that can completely destroy bowser. The fact that he can't defend against projectiles and that some the characters above actually out prioritize his attacks leave him helpless. That doesn't go to say that he is a bad character, he's not great, but he's not bad. As strange as this may sound, I've found that bowser works great against metaknight. All of bowser's attacks out prioritize meta's, that and bowser has longer reach then meta. If the two were to clash in the air, bowser would win. And we already know about bowser awesome ground game. Bowser clearly has the advantage.

 

[FreakingMethodiC]

Haha, no. Lucas = Dead Bowser

HAHA last time i checked bowser and infinite Lucas ...

 

[DiasFlac]

Ok, all you guys are starting to do is point out positive point on Bowser, he has negatives too ya know. And other characters have better positives. -_-

But I created this topic to bash Bowser xD. I'm pointing out the bad points about Bowser and the fact that he has no good match ups.

I'll still main him but the truth must be heard.

@Smash Brother. I'm sure it drives the hardcore touney***s crazy when I pwn them with my Bowser as well. I'm not really into touneys I just enjoy playing friendly matches. You'd probably be surprised what characters I've beaten with my Bowser and the level the players played them at.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Bowser does have some good matchups. He means trouble for Jigglypuff, but he's at a disadvantage against Snake.

 

[S_B]

Bowser does have some good matchups. He means trouble for Jigglypuff, but he's at a disadvantage against Snake.

Odd. I've found JP's floatiness and WoP is far more of a problem for him than Snake, who doesn't have a projectile fast enough to stop Bowser, it seems.

 

[Kitamerby]

...Waitasec. From what I've seen, Bowser does have at least SOME Good matchups....er... one really good matchup? ...

...****, he needed Super Armor. D:

 

[S_B]

I think he's an Ike-counter, personally, but that's only because Ike is one of the few characters slower than Bowser but is also lighter.

Plus, Bowser just seems to have a natural counter to everything Ike has up his sleeve.

 

[ElectroBlooper]

Does anyone else get the impression that Bowser mains seem to have a lower opinion of Bowser than everyone else?

Originally Posted by DiasFlac
He's great character imo but against other characters he has it bad.

As much as I hate to say it, having a disadvantage against almost every other character is pretty much equivalent to not being very good.

I do understand what you're saying. Bowser has a lot of very good qualities, some of which I believe have been mentioned in this thread. That might explain why people who don't main Bowser are more likely to think he's pretty decent: they've messed around with him and seen his jab, ftilt, etc. People who main him, however, and fight different characters at a competitive level will eventually notice that pretty much every character they face is an uphill battle.

The problem is that the way Bowser fights, he is at a disadvantage to projectiles, any combo ability, good aerial games, etc. Almost every character in the game has at least one of the many advantages that gives Bowser serious trouble. In other words, what makes Bowser mediocre is not that he lacks positive attributes but that he lacks the tools necessary to counter the kinds of advantages that most other characters have. And at least according to my understanding of the word, not having the necessary qualities to keep up with the other characters = bad.

He's still probably my favorite character.

 

[KevinM]

Competent, read in that extremely competitive top level Bowser players where only a few come to mind, realize how retardely bad Bowser is. People that play him casually or ***** up to place in the top 30 just think he's bad and people that suck think he's ok or good.

 

[Ayaz18]

agreed, I usually smile when facing a bowser, cause all I need is one grab, then i can actually suffle bowser to a knee, as bad as my priority is, Bowser has nothing in terms of speed attacks to catch someone off gaurd, unlike Ganon's auto cancel Dair or DDD's chain grab, but when Bowser does lay an attack it really hurts

 

[Buuman]

As I am gaining experience..I am starting to realize, bowser really isn't a great character. I've been to a few tournies now..my bowser competes with chars like D3, GW, and snake..but I CONSTANTLY have to be on my toes. There's no room to **** up with bowser. Not trying to toot my own horn or anything but I have competed with really good players...it's just sooooooo much harder to win..and realzizing it now..with bowser..I'm starting to feel like it's a chore to win with him. There is no room for screwing up,mistakes, or failure. You have to be on edge 100% of the time with good players. The video game becomes frustrating and irritating..and against the really good players..it's a matter of surving and trying to recover half of the match, and attempting to punish them when and IF they **** up. I'm slowly leaning back to D3..but I will attempt to work with bowser a bit more. I still have a little bit of hope.

 

[KevinM]

Go Buuman he's not your main main, not for real real just for play play.

 

[S_B]

As I am gaining experience..I am starting to realize, bowser really isn't a great character. I've been to a few tournies now..my bowser competes with chars like D3, GW, and snake..but I CONSTANTLY have to be on my toes. There's no room to **** up with bowser. Not trying to toot my own horn or anything but I have competed with really good players...it's just sooooooo much harder to win..and realzizing it now..with bowser..I'm starting to feel like it's a chore to win with him. There is no room for screwing up,mistakes, or failure. You have to be on edge 100% of the time with good players. The video game becomes frustrating and irritating..and against the really good players..it's a matter of surving and trying to recover half of the match, and attempting to punish them when and IF they **** up. I'm slowly leaning back to D3..but I will attempt to work with bowser a bit more. I still have a little bit of hope.

This is what it sadly boils down to.

As a Bowser player, you just have to be THAT much better than whoever you play against in order to win, and like you mentioned, that means never f*cking up even once.

 

[Silveraen]

All the more glory when you win :D

 

[Dan_X]

All the more glory when you win :D

Yeah, if you win.

 

[DiasFlac]

This is what it sadly boils down to.

As a Bowser player, you just have to be THAT much better than whoever you play against in order to win, and like you mentioned, that means never f*cking up even once.

You got that right LOL

When brawling good players as Bowser whenever I mess up or do an attack I didn't mean to do it really F*** me up badly. You have to be on your P's and Q's whenever brawling a good player because they know Bowser's weaknesses just as well as you do and how to expose them.