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You've already 'outlined' it but it's complese horse**** when you analyze our interactions on d1 and d2. Additionally, J did not actively push zaixl and actually defend zaixl when the going was getting rough for the slot. You are just plain wrong.I've already outlined why I think you and J are scum together. Between the other two, it's honestly not that hard. Zaixl's some of the easiest bus bait I've ever seen in mafia. I doubt Moosy's scum but that's what PoE is for.
Yeh, that's why I'm gonna have to do a complete analysis tomorrow if I want to lynch J. In that analysis, your partner will likely crawl out of the woodwork. It doesn't matter right now, because you're the lynch that I want to happen today. Tell me, why are you not scum? Why are you avoiding defending your own argument that FML is scum? I care infinitely more about responses to that than potshots at my theory of your potential scummates.
I've said that Zaixl is a patsy and that if we did lynch him, it would never be for the right reasons if he flipped scum and for all the wrong reasons if he flipped town. He's a literal wildcard with absolutely no basis to his decisions in thread because there's no actual mafia sense there. I could flip a coin and be about as accurate. That was never a pass for Zaixl, simply that I don't think it'll be a very fruitful lynch and that guessing his alignment is exactly that--a guess. There's nothing there to influence it otherwise.
What the flying ****? I've been the biggest Glyfe supporter in this thread. I've been the one thing that's been holding back a Glyfe lynch this entire time. The second I dip from the thread, Glyfe's lynch occurs. That's not a coincidence--had I been there, that lynch would've been MUCH harder to pull off if not altogether prevented. Get that **** outta here.
Kinda hard to lead the town when you haven't had any cases, pushes, or directions all game that weren't just pandering to the majority in the first place and the ones you've had were either wrong (Fandangox) or are so poorly structured that it should never result in a lynch (FML).
Also I disagree with this. You're trying to lynch a slot for horrible reasons and have managed to get our tracker to claim in the process. You're justifications for lynching are purely that he's wrong, that he voted for a slot he thought was town because it was the end of the phase (something everyone does to avoid a no lynch), and that he tried to lynch a slot he thought was scum (you) in a method that involved killing another townie because he couldn't see a way to lynch you at that stage without doing that. Those are all null actions to me in a vacuum (at worst) and yet you're spinning them all into a scummy light and saying they're scummy without outlining why. You speak in complete absolutes and when called on your bull****, there's no logical explanation behind it, merely appeals to emotion, appeals to people's sensibilities, and appeals to authority. As a result, I can't see some logic working behind this that allows me to understand your point of view which suggests to me that there's not some flawed-but-townie logic that explains your actions. You just look like a guy desperate for a lynch and went all-out on FML because there's no real love for that slot. That looks scummy as **** to me and that's just your actions from toDay.
so me saying one line later "soup comes back once the indy dies' totally isnt clear at all
kinda hard to mislead when you dont lead at all
#HBC | Red Ryu
Okay let's keep talking. Like some others have pointed out, my logic hasn't really been as good as I'd like it to be. But I think that's partly because of the format of the game, and the many unknowns that I've never dealt with before. Also, some of it still has to be based off gut feeling, becuase we can't "know" whether or not something someone did was scummy or not.
Right now, I think that Laundry is trying to make sense of the situation and is being very transparent and upfront about his opinions while doing so. I've seen very little scuminess from him since his whining yesterday with Soup.Spak what's ur thoughts on the situation of laundry, bard, fml?
MoosyDoosy
just because you shouldn't self-vote doesn't pardon you from defending yourself. Please respond to my accusations of you, as I want to get a stronger feeling of your alignment.
Wait, I’m confused by this. Are you saying that you caught him as scum or town with your tracker claim?Right now, I think that Laundry is trying to make sense of the situation and is being very transparent and upfront about his opinions while doing so. I've seen very little scuminess from him since his whining yesterday with Soup.
Bard's actions have been pointing to scum since the start of D2, but I think I caught him off guard when I claimed tracker and nullified his gambit. I don't think that his action was justified because if FML is actually town he could have screwed everyone over (since we might be in a MyLo/LyLo situation), but his perception and my perception of what defines a "good" decision differ.
I haven't looked into FML at all for most of the game, and am intending to go back and read his slot more carefully. Being wrong on a lynch isn't a good reason to lynch someone (a majority of the people alive right now have been a participant in a mislynch), so I'd need more evidence of FML scum to be comfortable with him dying today.
Also,
Also, thanks for bringing up your case on me again. I meant to ask what you meant by “town-slips”.
I'm saying that I thought he was scum until the indie PM (and a little bit after). After that, he pointed out why a tracker and a cop could both be useful on the same team, which nullified scum-confirmed mindset on the slot (purely based on meta). Bard's interactions yesterday seemed really sketch (look at my re-read late-ish yesterday for more info on that), and his whole gambit seemed to have no possible outcomes that were positive for him, but he seemed to be genuine on pretty much everything after he came clean. I still think he's a moderate scum lean, but at least he tried to provoke conversation in town early-phase (which is more than what could be said from nearly everyone else).
You pushing confirmed townies "accidentally".
Fine, I'll correct it to: "you go for the safest reads a vast majority of the time."
You responded to everything I quoted within a decent period of time. Don't use "I didn't care" as an excuse.
I'm bummed too, but if we both bum together we won't get anywhere.
mallorean_thug
Do you agree with my take on Bardull? Did my perspective of J/Bardull help give voice to the idea that J is bussing Bardull after all?
MoosyDoosy
you've said you've been wrong on all your scumspects, but do you have any ideas on new ones? Don't let your disappointment get to you.
His anger was likely legitimate but keep in mind, he walked in here with a fake claim on a slot, and then decided to continue pushing that slot despite his claim being exposed. The rest of his justifications for being on that slot are still garbage. How does that factor into your read?
Oh it factors in BIG TIME. At some point I'm just gonna have to go with the decision that makes the most sense to me. The reason I'm nervous is because I played a game with someone who acted just like him, seemed really scummy, but was just a townie who messed up, and we lost the game because he threw everyone off and we lynched him.His anger was likely legitimate but keep in mind, he walked in here with a fake claim on a slot, and then decided to continue pushing that slot despite his claim being exposed. The rest of his justifications for being on that slot are still garbage. How does that factor into your read?
SlickWylde
I'll get back to you on your questions and my ideas on what to do for today later. I got stuff to write atm.
Can you point where i did the later?
I can try, but that's a lot of pages to look through. The first was the "Upside down thumbs up", and then you later on say "Slick's logic ain't aces" when talking about the fact that I'm confirmed town, and then you said something along the lines of "Even if (I think you were referring to Ryu, but I have to double check) is confirmed town, I don't trust anything he says like Slick".
Great help guys. I guess we'll have to come back to this toMorrow if the game doesn't end.
Yeah, no Spak. Please get your butt on one of the actual wagons that could happen today.
Wow, really? Moosy, you can't get out of publicly picking a side this day phase by claiming "I'm depressed that I was wrong yesterDay". You also can't get away with not even trying to come up with your own reasons for your eventual vote, and you definitely can't get away with "Well, I'll only vote when its a policy vote to hammer and avoid No Lynch".
Like, all of it is pretty sound. And if we were on fs.com, I'd already be measuring the rope for Bardull's neck. But we're over here, and none of this strikes me as terribly different than the mess over Glyph. Except that we have a slightly different group of major actors. And the way that Bard reacted to Spak's claim flet really genuine to me. If he's scum fakeclaiming cop, how was he so completely flummoxed by somebody counterclaiming him and then not backing off? And then thinking about things more, dropping the gambit, and considering that spak could be town? What does he have to gain from doing that instead of just rolling with an FML/spak scumteam theory? (which, from his POV, should be very very possible. My own analysis pointed to as much). His content since has been terrible, but not really in a way that really implies "scum reaching for a lynch" and not "town convinced that the scumteam is dogpiling them after a mistake that could lose town the game"
FullMetalLynch
. (In regards to him trying to discredit a confirmed towny)
Like, rereading all of his posts, I still get the same impression I had when I voted him on D2. Its like FML is part of the peanut gallery watching our game, and only deigning to step in when there's something easy to jump on, or they feel like they have a particularly witty remark. So, maybe this is just a playstyle difference, but you read that and say "Nothing scummy to see here". While I read that as "Nothing towny to see here", which comes off as especially scummy in a game where we're looking for the scumteam that has sat back and laughed as we've gone after townie after townie.
And his vote is only in response to pressure from J about why he hasn't voted yet. He's voting Ryu for being "lazy", and he also has this to say at the time:
Right after that, Zaixl voted Glyph, and then FML is happy to jump aboard.
With this to say:
The two big things to note here is that he doesn't vote again until 12 hours and 100 posts later (and only 3 hours before deadline) and that his unvote here is actually what made the Maven wagon the largest wagon. And arguably what crushed the Zaixl possibility.
Well, unfortunately for FML, in his absence, the Glyph wagon resurfaced. So when he makes the vote that ties the Maven and the Glyph wagons, he comments on that , right?
Nope, instead he wants to talk about how my Soup wagon obviously wasn't happening, and why he wasn't starting a new wagon 3 hours before deadline with no case.
If it was explicitly for the same reasons as J, or for some reasons left over from D1, he certainly didn't say them. Instead he gave us:
He then parks his vote there for the entire rest of the day until he's "forced" to consolidate onto Glyph.
Its funny, because the biggest thing I remember about FML from yesterday was his continuing argument with RR. Yet, that's never really represented in any of the votals. Instead its just him parking his vote on Bard, and then complaining that his wagon never found enough traction to happen yesterday.
SlickWylde
MoosyDoosy
:Was any of this helpful? Can you understand why I might think FML is pretty damn scummy after staring at these votals trying to solve the game?
mallorean_thug
Very helpful! I want to see his response to this. My vote is between him, Bardull, and Laundry. I believe Spak. I sort of believe J.
I think that Bardull and FML are not knowingly coaligned.
Care to tell me why?
Wut, do you want a wagon to start on me? You could have just asked lol.
Bruh, you just unvoted and revoted yourself. The wagon we had contained you and me before I realized your lynch wasn't gonna happen today. Like, every time I say something about you you self vote, even if I'm unvoting you. I'd love to push you harder right now, but some people seem stubbornly convinced of your townieness and adding another possibility for a lynch would NOT help us get in a lynch by tonight.
