Bingo Mafia: OVAH! Who won?

[smargaret]

No, I will not claim. We're lynching the claimed vt. Or we're lynching scum. We're not lynching me.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

PL didn't seem to like a Smarg lynch prior to now -- correct me if I'm wrong, PL.

I'm pretty sure that I brought up the idea of Smarg scum early in the game but not much since because my other heads were concerned that I'm just not a fan of her playstyle (which I wasn't in Rusty, although she turned up scum so it worked out) rather than it being a legitimate scum read. Her current stances and voting, admittedly along with some meta, make it really hard for me to believe its just her playstyle I don't like and not scummy, scummy behavior.

 

[smargaret]

Asking "Do you want a claim?" instead of just outright claiming at L-1 shows reluctance to claim.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Asking "Do you want a claim?" instead of just outright claiming at L-1 shows reluctance to claim.

Smarg who is this addressed to?

Are you suggesting that Asdioh should be lynched because he asked before he claimed?

 

[Seikend]

Yes, asking if you should claim is more reluctant than outright claiming.

But no one had suggested he should claim. He himself brought up the suggestion of claiming. And y'know what? No one agreed he should then.

Asdioh brought up the idea of claiming with no prompt from anyone else.

 

[smargaret]

Everyone who suggested Asdioh wasn't reluctant to claim because he asked.

I'm suggesting Asdioh be lynched because you lynch claimed vt's. When does town need to ever gambit a watcher claim? If we had a real watcher, all that gambit would do would out them - Ran, you should see what I'm saying.

Asdioh was at L-1. That, to me, is a suggestion that he claim. And then, it's supported when people started saying "claim!" and he didn't.

Anyway, since I'm not sure I remembered to do this last night -

Unvote
Vote: Asdioh

 

[Seikend]

So just to clarify.

Your scumlist is Aposl, PL, Seikend, Asdioh, and TDW and Nabe as Null leaning scum, correct?

 

[Seikend]

EBWOP:

Oh, and KevinM.

 

[Seikend]

Asdioh was at L-1. That, to me, is a suggestion that he claim. And then, it's supported when people started saying "claim!" and he didn't.

Come up with quotes to prove this part please.

 

[smargaret]

KeevM isn't scum, KevM is coasting (this isn't parroting, I've said it before). Since he's coasting, I can't read him and he has to stay null until he gets off his butt and does something. He needs attention, but not until tomorrow since we have to lynch Asdiohscum today.

I want to see Asdioh lynched today. I am astonished that nobody is even considering why town - vanilla town, at that - would have to gambit like that. I'd put PL and Aposl next, in that order. You're in the null leaning scum zone. My nullscum read on TDW is based on meta - and I have good meta on Gord, since kuz hasn't been posting much - and the fact that he's lurking. He should also point out that this length of a scum list isn't atypical for me in a game with this many players when it's this early on.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Everyone who suggested Asdioh wasn't reluctant to claim because he asked.

I'm suggesting Asdioh be lynched because you lynch claimed vt's. When does town need to ever gambit a watcher claim? If we had a real watcher, all that gambit would do would out them - Ran, you should see what I'm saying.

Asdioh was at L-1. That, to me, is a suggestion that he claim. And then, it's supported when people started saying "claim!" and he didn't.

Anyway, since I'm not sure I remembered to do this last night -

Unvote
Vote: Asdioh

I think that he said this has to do with the kinds of gambits X1 and Kuz use as town and can be effective, and it was part of his explaining how he didn't check his PM until a couple days in. Honestly I don't see him making that up, but if he did then that means he was scum at L-1. He then claimed but didn't use any of the gambits he set up and claimed just vt. Alright but then he revealed his gambits when clearly he didn't have to. He didn't try to out the tracker or watcher if they exist when he could have. I'm just not seeing where he would benefit from this if he was scum, unless he thought all this through and his story he would make up in case he was about to get lynched ahead of time.

Also, this is the July side, but I'm guessing you are relating this back to what you did in Rusty counterclaiming him, but since a counterclaim didn't actually happen and he put all his cards out there at once as if he expected to be lynched I don't think it is the same.

Smarg, you said you will not claim. Is that now because you are not at L-1 or in general?

 

[smargaret]

I can see him panicking and not knowing what to do.

This is not an appropriate time for me to claim.

The appropriate course of action is to lynch the claimed vt.

 

[smargaret]

Seikend - sorry I didn't see your earlier post. The quotes have already been posted elsewhere - I'm talking about the separate time when I think it was you told him to claim or he'd be put at L-1.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

[Seikend]

I just realized JTBs vote is no longer on me.

ummmmm awkward

anyway, do you or anyone else think I should claim?

Asking "Do you want a claim?" instead of just outright claiming at L-1 shows reluctance to claim.

So what you're saying is, from this (and only this) post you inferred that Asdioh had a PR?

It's the only reference to claiming before.


And calling me obtuse doesn't help your case. It'll just make me dig deeper I'm afraid.

 

[smargaret]

*headdesk* People claim at L-1 here, right? Asdioh DID NOT claim at L-1. You CANNOT provide quotes to prove it, you CANNOT reference it.

You are asking me for something that nobody can provide. Reread the last two pages if you really don't get it, stop beating a dead horse.

 

[Seikend]

*headdesk* People claim at L-1 here, right? Asdioh DID NOT claim at L-1. You CANNOT provide quotes to prove it, you CANNOT reference it.

You are asking me for something that nobody can provide. Reread the last two pages if you really don't get it, stop beating a dead horse.

You see, we wouldn't have had these last two pages if you actually said this instead of just "reluctance to claim".

I've got what I want.

 

[Asdioh]

I want to see Asdioh lynched today. I am astonished that nobody is even considering why town - vanilla town, at that - would have to gambit like that.

Did you actually fully read my claim? I went pretty in-depth explaining what I did as why.

Is this an air of desperation?



And, this is delving into some wine here, but if I were scum I could have easily self-hammered at L-1 to prevent the tons of discussion that has happened afterward.

Still not done rereading smarg, will finish after work. Hopefully J posts by then.

 

[Seikend]

@Soup

A question here. Scum can be reluctant to claim, right?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

from my experiences, scum would claim if they were in really deep waters, and they would usually claim a power role, but that's EM, so i'm not sure if that's in the same category.

Asdioh bread-crumbed Tracker-Watcher, which is a very powerful role, had he not been voted and pushed into L-1, and moved along to D2, would he have claimed this then?

the fact he had a folly for his play concerns me, but this is contradicting towards my read right now, which is town.

 

[Seikend]

Souppp .__.

I just wanted a simple answer.

Can scum be reluctant to claim? Yes or no?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

i just said it, they would be reluctant to claim if they did not have a back-up.

 

[Seikend]

@GLG

Is it standard for scum to have safeclaims for roles?

 

[GandhiLaserGun]

They often do, not always.

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT!

[5] Smargaret - Aposl / KevinM / Seikend / Soupamario / Pink Lemonade
[4] Asdioh - J / Nabe / Toasting Dat Walrus / Smargaret
[3] J - Glyphmoney / GandhiLaserGun / Asdioh
[1] Aposl - JTB

[0] Pink Lemonade
[0] GandhiLaserGun
[0] Seikend
[0] JTB
[0] Glyphmoney
[0] KevinM
[0] Toasting Dat Walrus
[0] Nabe
[0] Soupamario

[0] Not Voting

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch!
Deadline set for Friday, April 8th, Midnight GMT.

 

[Seikend]

They often do, not always.

Good, thats the answer I wanted.

Because we cannot assume that scum have safe roles, it is possible for scum to be reluctant to claim. Correct?


From pushing Smarg for a while about it, her reason for seeing Asdioh as a town PR is the following:

*headdesk* People claim at L-1 here, right? Asdioh DID NOT claim at L-1. You CANNOT provide quotes to prove it, you CANNOT reference it.

You are asking me for something that nobody can provide. Reread the last two pages if you really don't get it, stop beating a dead horse.

Buuuuut, Asdioh not claiming at L-1 could also mean he is scum. Town PR and scum are both perfectly reasonable possibilities.

Smarg rules out the possibility of Asdioh scum though. She instantly assumes Asdioh is a town PR.

The only reason for Smargtown to jump to such a conclusion is if she has a town read on Asdioh before.

If she had a town read on Asdioh though, why didn't she just say Asdioh as town? If questioned, she could simply point back to whatever town reads she got from Asdioh before he refused to claim. It wouldnt out Asdioh as a PR, and she could remain consistent.

Instead, she goes with this wishy washy null response for Asdioh.

If she was town, saying Asdioh town would make a lot more sense than null on Asdioh.

Does that make sense?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

yo Seikend, while we're on that subject, answer my question i gave to everyone, but sorta focused to you.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So yea I believe Asdioh's claim. It's pre' cool and elaborate actually.

Unvote

Kinda reread the thread, might have skimmed over some things, but I think I got a good idea for where we're at in the game. I'm REEEEEALLY indecisive, with lynching Smarg or J. First of all, let me say that I don't understand why people are calling Kevmo a coaster or a lazy player or this or that. I mean come on, he's actually playing the game, making connections, pressuring, giving reads, this and that. Just because he's not spoonfeeding some of the morons who need to be told everything right upfront, doesn't mean that he's not playing the game. It's one of the things that I'm really getting annoyed by Smargz over. That, combined with all of her stupid play makes her a fabulous play for the Day (I mean COME ON you're really gonna use LAL as a reason to vote asdioh even though his lying makes legitimate sense and was actually a really good pro town move?). But at the same time, J's play has been seriously off and he's been too dumb to comprehend. His AtE is just seeming like a ploy to try to get dumb people/meta *****s to get a town read from em, but you can't hide scummy play amirite?

I'll be back after talking our vote over with my other head. Deadlines in... 2 days iirc?... yea, seems like plenty'a time to make a choice.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ninja'd.

@Mod, for clarification, when you say April 8th at midnight, do you mean the minute following 11:59 on April 7th, or the minute following 11:59 on April 8th?

 

[Seikend]

yo Seikend, while we're on that subject, answer my question i gave to everyone, but sorta focused to you.

You're gonna have to repeat the question for me.

 

[Kataefi]

@Mod, for clarification, when you say April 8th at midnight, do you mean the minute following 11:59 on April 7th, or the minute following 11:59 on April 8th?

I mean the minute following 11:59 on April 8th. So this Friday at midnight.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@Seikend

Asdioh bread-crumbed Tracker-Watcher, which is a very powerful role, had he not been voted and pushed into L-1, and moved along to D2, would he have claimed this then?

the fact he had a folly for his play concerns me, but this is contradicting towards my read right now, which is town.

quote
10quotes

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Smarg rules out the possibility of Asdioh scum though. She instantly assumes Asdioh is a town PR.

Wait I thought that post was explaining why Smarg thinks that Asdioh is scum....wasn't her #1246 and that vote calling him scum? When did she say he was town pr?

I'm tired but did I misunderstand that really badly?

 

[Seikend]

Wait I thought that post was explaining why Smarg thinks that Asdioh is scum....wasn't her #1246 and that vote calling him scum? When did she say he was town pr?

I'm tired but did I misunderstand that really badly?

Well, now that Asdioh's claimed I can post the reason for my wishy-washy stance on him - his reluctance to claim made me suspect he was a pr and I saw the crumb and didn't want to out a power role. What was I supposed to say, that he was the watcher? Which apparently he isn't. LAL and all that, I'm angry and I want him lynched now.

Smar thought Asdioh was a town PR at first. That was her explanation for not taking a stance on Asdioh earlier. Didn't want to out him apparently.


However, seeing Asdioh's claim of VT, she's claiming we should LAL.

 

[Seikend]

@Soup

I'm not sure how I'm meant to answer that. If he was town then yes, I could see that as a possibility of his plan.

But I can't know what his plan was. Only Asdioh knows that answer.

 

[Toastin Dat Walrus]

@Smarg

Curiously, what was your read of Asdioh's actions prior to the claim. Disregard your finding of the crumb when answering this question.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Vote: Smarg
Oh hey look at that. Smarg is L-1.

 

[Toastin Dat Walrus]

Oh, remembered another thing:

Smarg should claim.

Hey, check it out, I had to ask her before she claimed. She must be scum!

No, that's not something that makes you scum. And neither is asdioh not claiming scummy. It's a null tell. Some things are better hidden from town until absolutely necessary. Is it odd that you (possibly J, but I don't think he's posted after his claim so ya can't really count em) are still the only one on his wagon? Is it weird that town seems to find his claim/reasoning legit?

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Smar thought Asdioh was a town PR at first. That was her explanation for not taking a stance on Asdioh earlier. Didn't want to out him apparently.


However, seeing Asdioh's claim of VT, she's claiming we should LAL.

Ah kk thank you, that makes a lot more sense now.

@Soup: If Asdioh were scum then having those as fake claims would be very powerful, true. However, I'm still not sure why if he were scum he'd have revealed those gambits now or at all unless he was planning to use them against town. He explained his experiment not to check his role pm until a couple days into the game in that post as well, so what as scum would revealing those gambit crumbs actually do for him now? If his plan was to make up this story about not checking his role and being just vt, explaining his gambit plan at that point doesn't seem necessary.

The reasons he states for setting up the gambit are reasonable imo, he cites X1 and Kuz as examples of good gambiters users of gambits and I would agree with that, and his role pm story seems legit and explains a lot of his indecision.

 

[Seikend]

Is it weird that town seems to find his claim/reasoning legit?

Just a reminder, I don't.

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12490699&postcount=1237

But most of town seem fine with it. Eh.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

@PL

he revealed the gambits once he was at L-1..or L-3.