Bear and Fish 11: Over. Everyone loses, Town loses a little less

[Swiss]

FF are you confirmed town? How?

Who DIDN'T want to lynch GLG yesterDay? Hi Indie.

 

[Swiss]

Convenient how you tell us J is immune when WE ALREADY KNOW he is.

 

[Swiss]

What are your remaining actions?

Quote your crumbs.

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

Wait, I have a question then X1.

Why th3kuzi>Swiss. You told iirc for people to investigate Swiss and that we were gonna be lynching him D2. th3kuzi had just started this game along with Nabe but you choose to RB him instead of your strongest scum pick? Why?

Can someone tell me what this claim is? Is it a Variant of JOAT and even if it is can someone explain it to me ^^" Never played a game with it.

 

[X1-12]

Convenient how you tell us J is immune when WE ALREADY KNOW he is.

We do?

What are your remaining actions?

Quote your crumbs.

I have a vig shot.

crumbed black bear when Cello claimed it and I said "I think he is just baiting for CCs". I also asked a few times about the number of remaining mafia to see if anyone would push the idea of there being 3 mafia, iirc all that really came from it was J gets town points. I also weak crumbed I think I wrote my post numbers for rolecrumbs down. The only action I intentionally crumbed was vig. I think you will laugh when you see them

@J: its just a jack of all trades but with different actions, each Night I can pick one of those three actions to do, I can only do each action once. I also thought that a combined force of Me and Nabe would be enough to get Swiss lynched on scumminess, didn't want to waste a RB

 

[Swiss]

X1. Please claim again bearing in mind that

 

[X1-12]

also how did I miess this


nah Swiss I'm Vig

Yeah, thats right I will NK you Lynch you if Swiss flips town. Contribute something. Tell me who is scummy. Failure to answer this question will have serious reprecussions

Bolded the parts that are crumbs yeah

 

[Swiss]

Fail crumbs.

Thinking X1-scum.

 

[X1-12]

Fail crumbs.

Thinking X1-scum.

mm yah why fail crumbs

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

FF are you confirmed town? How?

Who DIDN'T want to lynch GLG yesterDay? Hi Indie.

Pretty sure I'm not objectively confirmed town like you via PR claims, but I'm personally clear obviously.

Idk, yesterday was a ****ing mess with all the Kuz drama. I don't like reading it. I hope it wasn't me. =(

Fail crumbs.

Thinking X1-scum.

Agreed. Pretty he's the scum, especially with him and Cello claiming the same thing. Could very easily be a long term orchestrated bus. Gonna have to go back to where Cello claimed to see just how genuine X1's reaction is, but point is, if Cello was under big pressure at the time then this makes sense as a bus that was meant to set up X1 for a PR claim in late game, esp. one as lame as JOAT.

So yeah, Imma look into that and then go back to indy hunting.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Oh and @ X1, how exactly does "fishing for people to suggest that there were 3 scum" when you allegedly knew via PR that there was only 1 left, help you scum hunt? What would someone thinking that there were 3 scum in this game tell you exactly?

 

[X1-12]

Scum would want to give town the impression there was more of them than there actually were to cause panic etc.

 

[X1-12]

also you can explain why I am scum so I can tell you why you are wrong

 

[X1-12]

also you can explain why I am scum so I can tell you why you are wrong

bullet points or a numbered list would be preferred

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

@J: its just a jack of all trades but with different actions, each Night I can pick one of those three actions to do, I can only do each action once. I also thought that a combined force of Me and Nabe would be enough to get Swiss lynched on scumminess, didn't want to waste a RB

So wait you only have those three to pick from and you already used them? Since you said you can only pick one of those three actions. Why do you say then you have a vig shot? And your reasoning for picking th3kuzi>Swiss is tbqh shoddy. I mean you picked a random person and decided to RB him instead of trying to hit your biggest scum-suspect because you got arrogant in thinking you would get him lynched the next day with your buddy Nabe. Is this correct?

 

[X1-12]

I was going to lie about not having a vig shot so I could try to save town if we lynch non-scum but I decided against it.



Yes to the second part, kuz was second suspect, with Nabe onside I was confident I could get Swiss lynched, that's why in D2 Nabe said someone else should go that Day I was liek ¬¬ why? but I made the concession so that we could get rid of Swiss the following Day, he was evidently not going to move on that point.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

So first, Nabe states that J's claim is both of a suggested "high calibur" and is "totally believable".

Misquoting me? Quotes out of context? I didn't realize Kuz had replaced Tiger. Coulda sworn it was FF.

Well, maybe I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're completely mistaken rather than spouting BS that a 5-year old can catch. Here's what I actually said.

Before I get into this post, I want you to know: I absolutely expected a claim of this caliber from you.

You might not know this about me, but my dislike for J implies that I mean low caliber, not high. More obviously though, the rest of my post (as you've said yourself) goes into why it was a ****ty claim. "High caliber"? Nah.

Let's look at where I said "totally believable".

The animal alone: totally believable.

Let's break this complex statement down: sun bears climb trees and could look out from trees onto what's below. Oh wow look at that. Voyeur coupled with sun bear is totally believable. Does this imply that in sum total I think J's claim is believable, or even good? No and no. Does anything in my post suggest otherwise? No.

He justifies this saying that the claim "makes sense with voyeur" (wait what?) and "makes sense with regards to balance." Ok, well atleast the 2nd justification makes sense (no really wtf does "your claim makes sense with voyeur" even ****ing mean), but is that really the best way to validate a claim? No. It's a decent supporting argument, but there are far more reliable things to look for in validating a claim, since using game balance as a primary argument ASSUMES THE MOD BALANCED THE GAME THE WAY YOU THINK IT SHOULD BE BALANCED. For a glaring example of how this doesn't always happen, reference the recently completed Soul Calibur mafia.

I didn't think your Caps Lock here was enough emphasis, so I've added my own.

Yes, I've assumed that the mod balanced the game the way I've suggested. I've also explained my reasoning for doing so, and am quite content with continuing to assume it until the game's end. I haven't read Soul Calibur; if you're comparing it to this game, then I'm sure it was gripping.

But anyway, here's the funny part. In the very same post, Nabe goes on to ask questions about both J's questionable night choice last night (btw, night choice analysis is usually the best way to determine whether or not a claim is legitimate), AND his lame-*** crumbs. Again, both of these aspects of the claim (night choices and crumbing) are far more important than stupid meta BS like game balance guesses and.... that collection of verbal spittle that was "your claim makes sense with voyeur".

Nabe's dumb!!

Like dear lord, at first I wanted to believe Nabe and was leaning toward J as being the more likely liar but Nabe's horrendous assessment of the situation is making me take a huge double take.

!

And don't even get me started on the "a look at balance" treatise from pre-school. Nabe, wtf is even going through your head? Not only did you completely discount the possibility of there being an indy immunizer who can also track or voyeur (which should be a natural possibility to consider if you're already considering that the scum may have these powers), but you STILL COMPLETELY IGNORED THAT POSSIBILITY EVEN AFTER I SUGGESTED IT. Like literally, you don't even bother to explain why my suggestion isn't likely. You do plenty of legwork to justify why the scum likely don't have one of the two PR claims in question, which I can believe, but why is there no indy analysis? Selective omission much?

This kid is in pre-school oh man what a dumb thing to say Nabe you're so dumb.

In all fairness, let's take an unbiased look at the possibility of indy immunizer having extra abilities.

There is a independent role called the 'Immuniser' in this game. Each night he can submit a target, and this player will be rendered immune to poison for the rest of the game. This does not cause an alignment change and the person will not be informed they are immune.

No mention of auxiliary abilities. Glad we've solved that mystic dilemma.

And I also love how he just concludes that "likely scum are X1 and FF" and calls it a night, when we all know not lynching the indy here puts in in threat of a loss to it overnight.

Teehee.
You're the immunizer. I've already said why I know that to be the case. Mafia has been between J and X1 this whole time, and I have never considered you in the running. Likewise with X1, I've never considered him as indy. Or J. I've made my picks and their expected alignments very clear.

This post I've just responded to was scum 101. I understand you've replaced into a difficult spot where we know you to be scum, but you're floundering. You could do way better than this.

Vote: Frozenflame

Amuse me. You've read this game, right? At least a bit? Do you have anything outside of this Day to suggest that anyone at all is scum? Do you care enough to make a case? You should go ahead and do so.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Yes to the second part, kuz was second suspect, with Nabe onside I was confident I could get Swiss lynched, that's why in D2 Nabe said someone else should go that Day I was liek ¬¬ why? but I made the concession so that we could get rid of Swiss the following Day, he was evidently not going to move on that point.

Refresh my memory. Did you ever have a case on Swiss? Do you have one now, despite his cleared status? I'd like to see it. At the very least, a summary of why he was scum before toDay.

 

[#HBC | J]

Nabe, please get your vote off of FF.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Swiss, tell me what to think about 797.

 

[X1-12]

woow wtf nabe

post-writing now fyi

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nah. He's our indy and needs to go.

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

Nabe, set your arrogance aside for once second and think about things.

Get your vote off of FF now.

 

[X1-12]

Agreed. Pretty he's the scum, especially with him and Cello claiming the same thing. Could very easily be a long term orchestrated bus. Gonna have to go back to where Cello claimed to see just how genuine X1's reaction is, but point is, if Cello was under big pressure at the time then this makes sense as a bus that was meant to set up X1 for a PR claim in late game, esp. one as lame as JOAT.

So yeah, Imma look into that and then go back to indy hunting.

This is the only thing I find on me right now.

I started the Cello lynch, and even though Swiss was trying to give him a free pass pushed his wagon until he died. Hate to parrot but seriously, did you read this game?

 

[Swiss]

No content from me for an hour maybe more.

Skimming posts.

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

Also X1 it wasn't you who pointed out Cello first. It was me....

Then you re-brought up that I wanted Cello lynched after telling me it wasn't going to happen.

Larxene
X1
Swiss

then idk what else atm. Re-reading of that section will need to be done.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

J, are you scum?
If not, then the scum are X1 and FF. Do you believe X1 to be our indy?
If not, then what things do you want me to stop and look at?

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

Nabe, it is potential LYLO. Get your vote off if you understand this concept. I mean seriously am I really having to tell you why?

No, I'm not scum. X1 could be our indie but I do not know at the current time.

So are you actually saying you are okay to end the day this second with an FF lynch?

 

[X1-12]

@Nabe: I'm pretty sure it originated when I asked him to be bros, something which we both know helps us read each other, he ignored it so I asked again and he said no, it made sense on one hand since he thought he could read me whatever, but then why would he have an issue with me being better at reading him? Also later on he tries to give Cello a free pass despite fitting into his 100% so very simple to distinguish scum meta, he justified it by saying "I thought he was joking" I'm pretty sure there's more like him wanting to lynch some obv town but I don't remember.

Also X1 it wasn't you who pointed out Cello first. It was me....

Then you re-brought up that I wanted Cello lynched after telling me it wasn't going to happen.

Larxene
X1
Swiss

then idk what else atm. Re-reading of that section will need to be done.

OK perhaps you pointed it out first, something I would consider suspicious in itself bearing in mind that it was only 48 hours after the Day start, and imo before the first tell from cello - you said you had cracked his meta when he was yet to exhibit it, me and Swiss know it much better than you do. But then after Cello dropped his first actual scumtell (prod-dodge) you completely ignored it and voted for Grump. Please also quote me where I told you it wouldn't happen, and make sure you include a link to the post.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

That's what I'm saying, yes.
Regardless, there are two scum left of different alignments. I'm the first vote. We're not going to see a quickhammer.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Ninja'd.

X1, if you were immunizer, who would you have chosen? Humour me and put some thought into this. Same question to FF.

 

[X1-12]

Just to check: I'm going to reveal my thought process behind how one would play the immunizer, this will help whoever answers after me. I take it this is ok since its FF and he's probably capable of thinking of it on its own?

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11858944&postcount=187

^This is the post where I express fully that Cello is scum and the reason I had unvoted to Grump is because TRS was sure that Grump was scum. We decided collectively on that but she really wanted Grump. I did not ignore it. Also I wanna bring up these posts.

So Cello isn't the lynch toDay. Sorry Cello.

I'd happily lynch Kuz for vengeance. Could do Grump. X1 if he doesn't even try, but it'll probably be a town flip - wouldn't stop me lynching though (anyone have an issue with this?). Nabe got anything else to say? There was another player but I forget who.

Unvote Vote Grump

Lynch him with me and free pass to LYLO, I won't even mention your name.

Unvote
Vote: Cello

I gotcha confused with Swiss sorry but the posts are close in intervals and out of the freaking blue you come in saying "Alright let's Lynch Cello and Swiss if you do then you get a free pass to LYLO." In which you completely 180'd him in which you started a Swiss lynch to make it seem like he bussed Cello along with some apparant meta you have on him.

Also you're funny saying it was 48 hours into the day start. It was actually 216 hours if you wanna get techincal because the day started on 12/13/10 and I brought up Cello's inactivity on 12/22/10. Sooo maybe someone else needs to double check what they are thinking.

 

[X1-12]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11858944&postcount=187

^This is the post where I express fully that Cello is scum and the reason I had unvoted to Grump is because TRS was sure that Grump was scum. We decided collectively on that but she really wanted Grump. I did not ignore it. Also I wanna bring up these posts.





I gotcha confused with Swiss sorry but the posts are close in intervals and out of the freaking blue you come in saying "Alright let's Lynch Cello and Swiss if you do then you get a free pass to LYLO." In which you completely 180'd him in which you started a Swiss lynch to make it seem like he bussed Cello along with some apparant meta you have on him.

Also you're funny saying it was 48 hours into the day start. It was actually 216 hours if you wanna get techincal because the day started on 12/13/10 and I brought up Cello's inactivity on 12/22/10. Sooo maybe someone else needs to double check what they are thinking.

Actually I was talking about post #91. You talked about him very briefly in that IM chat, not in any way "express fully" but without even mentioning his #181 which was the only thing Cello had on him at that point. Swiss (namedrop) will back me up here because I'm certain there is no legit way you could have known he is scum before that point. I evidently would never let Swiss coast to LYLO, lol have you ever played with me before? The Day also definitely started on the 17th. I would also ask you to please stop trying to discredit my meta on Cello, I've modded a game with him where he posted "Prod Dodge" and basically nothing else for about 2 game Days. Its also pretty common knowledge that cello essentially doesn't play the game as scum, Cello even said it himself in a festive game you should be very familiar with I've also alreasdy talked about the possibility of me bussing Cello, its in my #824

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Yes to your 832.

 

[#HBC | J]

Actually I was talking about post #91.

This leads to this very page and no where else but I went back to see what exactly you were talking about. I even stated in that post that is was a joke to what Cello was exactly.

also definitely started on the 17th[/URL].

My time it says 16th but whatever that is still 144 hours and that is not even close to 48 hours nonetheless. You are gonna try and pull up that you are still referring to the #91 in which it is moot because I did not pressure Cello and express that he needed to be lynched.

I would also ask you to please stop trying to discredit my meta on Cello, I've modded a game with him where he posted "Prod Dodge" and basically nothing else for about 2 game Days. Its also pretty common knowledge that cello essentially doesn't play the game as scum, Cello even said it himself in a festive game you should be very familiar with I've also alreasdy talked about the possibility of me bussing Cello, its in my #824

X1, I am in no way trying to discredit you so I have no clue what you are talking about here. I understand what a Scum=Cello looks like. I have played with him in 2 games where I have seen it unfold. Quit trying to discredit my Cello meta. Also your #824 does not explain the possibilty of you bussing Cello. It's like one line of you telling FF to re-read the game because you just said you started the wagon on Cello. That doesn't talk about it at all. To bring up the quote in question:

This is the only thing I find on me right now.

I started the Cello lynch, and even though Swiss was trying to give him a free pass pushed his wagon until he died. Hate to parrot but seriously, did you read this game?

Are you seriously talking about this post?

 

[X1-12]

This leads to this very page and no where else but I went back to see what exactly you were talking about. I even stated in that post that is was a joke to what Cello was exactly.

What you actually said was essentially "Cello, glad you are town based on meta (this is a joke everyone) Your points here, here and here are dumb, explain them" Check it out:

Oh goodie Cello's town again =_= (joke for those who don't get why i'm saying this) Anyways

I think I have cracked your meta. And your my first person I believe I have a meta on. If you want me to delve into the questions I have asked, point out which questions you want me to go into more. I'd be happy too. I am not concealing the true identity. She is one of my friends who is new to SWF. Her name on here is Top Ranger Skye. Quit assuming please. Each time you assume your wrong like ALWAYS. Seriously look her up and see that she had just created her account.

Your question to Dourin, how am I full of crap, elaborate.

Swiss Question, No I have not been lieing. Quit trying to lie about me.

Tom statement. What is....? Xiivi is not on this account. As I'll say again, It's Top Ranger Skye.

Why should I need to bring up his posts in an aim chat to explain why I think he is scummy?

I didn't ask you to, what I am saying is that you claimed to have explained fully why Cello is scum in your#187, something which is fundamentally not true.

You're forgetting my personal history with Cello in which I do not expect you to know. I just came from a game where scum-Cello flipped (DGames Mafia) in which he literally told people if you do not lynch him when he is inactive then it is town's fault. Also I was in Discworld as well where I saw Cello as scum and know his mafia meta just as well.

Bolded partly for jokes, but partly because you're full of crap. I also at no point said that you do not know his scum meta - merely that he had not acted in his scum meta when you called him scum - he wasn't doing any of the traditional celloscum things

Lol dumb question because we have played in about all the same games for the past 4 months or so (whenever OddWorld was). So you told Swiss that in order to trap/lie to him? Kay, duely noted.

No, I do actually give Swiss some credit, It wasn't a trap, I just plain wanted another person on the wagon so I lied to try to get him on.

My time it says 16th but whatever that is still 144 hours and that is not even close to 48 hours nonetheless. You are gonna try and pull up that you are still referring to the #91 in which it is moot because I did not pressure Cello and express that he needed to be lynched.

In this quote here you clearly are saying that you didn't want to lynch him, despite knowing that he is scum.

X1, I am in no way trying to discredit you so I have no clue what you are talking about here. I understand what a Scum=Cello looks like. I have played with him in 2 games where I have seen it unfold. Quit trying to discredit my Cello meta. Also your #824 does not explain the possibilty of you bussing Cello. It's like one line of you telling FF to re-read the game because you just said you started the wagon on Cello. That doesn't talk about it at all. To bring up the quote in question:

Calling my meta "some apparent meta" when you know I've modded a game where he was scum is trying to discredit me. I am definitely talking about my #824: I am saying it is entirely possible that I did bus Cello, however that would be the most ****ing *** dumb **** I've ever seen when Swiss is just sitting there giving me an out so I can let him coast to another Day (And poison another player)

@ Nabe: Kay, D1 I'd probably go Nabe/J/Dourin, Nabe is the most likely to get NK'ed because he's the better player of those 3 (sorry but its true) but also most likely to not get lynched. I'd probably settle for the middle-ground and go dourin since I would have expected MafSwiss to kill TownNabe giving him more control as a stronger player is out of the game

N2 after cutting out grump I'd probably go for one of Nabe/J, Especially after the Dourin kill it looked like scum weren't as simple as just kill the strongest players, so Nabe most likely this Night

N3 I'd probably go Swiss, since I've been pushing him and he's not died, then its likely he'll live to endgame.

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

I'm just gonna comment on the last part; I was talking about Swiss, not Cello when I said "some apparant meta." It was referring to your D2 pressure of Swiss.

This meta argument is getting stupid because now we are just arguing who has the better Cello meta and that is why this conversation is done. It's pointless and distracting to who the indie is.

Who is the indie in your eyes X1? You said you would do a synopsis on how we all would play an indie in your mind.

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

@ Nabe: Kay, D1 I'd probably go Nabe/J/Dourin, Nabe is the most likely to get NK'ed because he's the better player of those 3 (sorry but its true) but also most likely to not get lynched. I'd probably settle for the middle-ground and go dourin since I would have expected MafSwiss to kill TownNabe giving him more control as a stronger player is out of the game

N2 after cutting out grump I'd probably go for one of Nabe/J, Especially after the Dourin kill it looked like scum weren't as simple as just kill the strongest players, so Nabe most likely this Night

N3 I'd probably go Swiss, since I've been pushing him and he's not died, then its likely he'll live to endgame.

This section was DEFINETELY not here when I just posted.

 

[~The Savage Nymph~]

N1 roleblock kuz
N2 fish count: 1 fish left
N3 immunise checker J: J is immune

Wait a second here I think I just realized something. Albeit it may be nothing but I gotta say it.

Why is there only one person immunized? (Larxene to be specific) There has only been one person who has flipped immune correct? And the fact that X1 has only found one other person that is immune at the current time makes it even more suspicious. X1 has apparantly used his RB on th3kuzi and no one else. Nabe has tracked Swiss and saw that he has gone nowhere. Larxene is immune herself so that rules her out as well. If X1 is telling the truth it has to be Frozen as the indie.

Also let's look at the facts. There was no one playing at all in FF's slot during the night phase of the game. Why would the indie not immune someone during the night phase of the game. X1 should have seen 2 immune people instead of one. The indie has no reason at all not to immunize someone and it would actually be bad for him to not Immunize someone. Kuzi popped immune and now Larxene is found as immune unless no one was immune N1 (if so why?).

FF is the only plausible choice for the indie and I am 100% sure of this.

Mafia lies between X1/Nabe and we need to figure that out. However I wanna hear from FF before anything is finalized.

It all makes sense if FF is the indie. Can anyone show any other way to how someone else could be the indie and only one person popping immunized? X1 has his theory that Immunize<NK but if we look at what is facts it seems FF is the indie.


We need to lynch FF toDay.