BBR Matchup Chart

[AlphaZealot]

As for me losing to Kadaj (I think my only loss to Marth ever): I underestimated him and he outplayed me - and he was on fire that tournament. Shrug, no matter how great a MU is sometimes you lose: look at MK.

 

[Luigi player]

Don't know why Marth is so easy for you guys.

@clowsui

There are new vids from Dögüsch Smash (march 11th-13th).
Leon vs me:
Match 1
Match 2
(last match of this set will be uploaded soon)

After watching those again it just looks soo difficult and sometimes he screws up and I wonder how it would've gone if he didn't... (although I did some mistakes too)
The next two matches (last match of this set and first match of GFs) weren't as close though. I guess I need to see them again...


The MU doesn't seem better than +1 to me...

 

[Player-1]

AZ, how would you punish a well spaced fair from marth if you have a banana in your hand and you don't throw since they're in the air?

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wolf (click to view!) is as bad as Marth in the MU (I think they are both +2 for us).

Kain and IL were dead tired at that.

3 hours or less of sleep is a no go.

Not doubting opinion more so the vid you posted.

Although even I admit you've played against Wolf on wifi enough to know how to plays out.

 

[AlphaZealot]

Yea, they probably were tired considering I beat in a row: Quik, Arty, then Kain (which is basically #3/#2/#1 in IL, except Quik has been inactive but frankly he is very good and should still be #3 behind Arty/Kain imo).

AZ, how would you punish a well spaced fair from marth if you have a banana in your hand and you don't throw since they're in the air?

Banana OoS. Basically just shield the Fair. Marth has ZERO air approaches which are safe on Diddy's shield. It is really funny, just have a friend of your's try it sometime: literally just stand there and tell him he has to approach in the air, and then make sure you shield at the right time. There is not a single thing Marth can do to actually hit you (or so I believe, I've done this practice with Moose a lot and he ultimately has to retreat to the ground and use ground mix ups aka GRABS or dancing blade because the air does not work). It is mostly in the timing, but really the window is huge so you shouldn't have any problems because I know you are really good already with the tech stuff.

I guess to make it simple:
-Wait
-Once they are in Fair range shield
-Once the Fair connects with your shield toss the banana OoS
--The key is patience and understanding they are really not a threat in the air coming in on your defenses

Also, though I think you already know this P-1, so for other people, this works against like 90% of air attacks. This is probably half the reason Diddy is so good, if you decide to camp and stay on the ground almost every character and their air attacks are punishable by just nana OoS. If you miss-time it at worst you will eat a jab (maybe a tilt, but only if it is roughly as fast as their jab attack) since that is most characters fastest attack and their only option after an air attack that has zero lag (so basically 5% or less damage versus you landing a nana trip + Fsmash which is what I always recommend because it maximizes your damage).

---

Luigi player:
-I don't think a single of your U-Smash's landed. The one that did land he Up-B'd it after the first hit and you lost the exchange ultimately. I use to really advocate using U-Smash, but the reality is that if it misses you eat a lot of damage, so the only character I really see a use for it against is Snake (when under <10% because it can lead to another Usmash or two/other combos) or D3. Maybe some other big/heavies like Bowser or DK I guess-the less common MU's. Basically as a rule of thumb never Usmash (unless they are directly above you I guess?) in any MU with quicker/lighter characters. Never. Break the habit, as I am currently doing.

-I think you need to stay away from the edge and recover lower more often - I saw you eat some unnessasary damage by trying to recover parrelell to Marth. Marth (despite his spike) has very little realistic options against you when recovering lower than the edge of the stage, so it is basically a free recovery without eating unnessasary damage.

-I saw you die the same way I do sometimes, which is rushing an Up-B. All Diddy's do this from time to time but this is just a little reminder that in a panic situation you are typically better off if you fully, completely charge an Up-B than trying to rush it.

-I like your style. It was minimal camping and a lot of aggro. Very in your face. Leon is also an in your face player. Entertaining matches. That said, here and there if he is in the air sometimes think about just standing there in your shield and punish his air attacks on reaction.

-Really great use of U-air, that was easily your most effective air attack in the MU.

-I didn't see many combo's really on him, you seemed to struggle to get both bananas under your control which is what leads to setups that lead to massive damage. To rectify this try up throwing bananas more: it keeps them in play with active hit boxes and if the banana in your hand hits typically the up-thrown banana will be around so you can continue the combo. Come to think of it, I don't think you really threw a banana up but once or twice?

-I think you over-used side-B. Most Diddy's do this, and I probably under use it. If I had to guess you were about 1/4th side-B humps and 3/4th side B kicks. Try to make it a little less predictable, again just estimatining but your success ratio overall with side-B was just barely in your favor I think.

-At the start of each match you were pretty good with grabs but toward the middle and end you stopped grabbing. I make the same mistake a lot as well and then kick myself for it later - grabbing is always one of your best options since it beats shielding and it conditions people to spot dodge, which is good for bananas. Not only that but grab's have super armor if they hit on the same frame as an attack and that has helped me more times than I can count.

-You had very little use of Fsmash and very few of your bananas landed which means you were not predicting his attacks at all in order to cause trips/combos. You have to try to read him a little better (I know you won the second game but he had no business making it that close after you were up 70-80% on his last stock - you gotta try to set up that nana/peanut wall).

If you are wondering why I'm critiquing I have no idea. I just felt like watching some matches and commentating.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I'd just like to take this opportunity to chime in again to say that match 2 of Lp vs Leon kind of proves my point because Leon punished virtually every mistake possible and read like all of his airdodges as well and still manages to lose somehow. I mean it's not even like Lp outplayed Leon in the slightest [in this particular match] it's more like the complete opposite to me.

Edit:

And this is what happened once he figured the match-up out a little better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stlt8YkD3ZQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgq3u-K71HQ

Just because Marth can get close to beating a good Diddy doesn't mean the match-up can't be -2. Wolf also usually gets close to beating DDD in tournament and the match-up is still -2. Because the amount of times DDD actually *wins* is drastically in his favor and the same is true for Diddy vs Marth. Marth can get close to beating a Diddy but how many times does he actually win? I think +2 for Diddy is justified.

 

[clowsui]

Don't know why Marth is so easy for you guys.

@clowsui

There are new vids from Dögüsch Smash (march 11th-13th).
Leon vs me:
Match 1
Match 2
(last match of this set will be uploaded soon)

After watching those again it just looks soo difficult and sometimes he screws up and I wonder how it would've gone if he didn't... (although I did some mistakes too)
The next two matches (last match of this set and first match of GFs) weren't as close though. I guess I need to see them again...


The MU doesn't seem better than +1 to me...

watching games 1 and 2 you just kept airdodging into him dude, if you just attack instead...

that's what ramin told me and i agreed w/ him after reviewing the vids again

 

[Shaya]

@Alphazealot

Marth's options on shield from the air have less disadvantage on shield than you have options fast enough.
"Just shield a fair" is a really silly thing to say. Your nana is 8 frames out of shield and thats right on top of you, not considering marth's range and his fair is only 4 frames disadvantaged (ff'd mind you.... but feasibly various degrees of vertical placement makes fair 'safe')

Diddy Kong's waiting in shield is the utmost preferable thing in my experience.
Because if a diddy's shielding with a banana, he can't grab, and they're generally waiting. I know I can do things completely safe on his shield and have a pressure advantage upon that fast fall landing (I can grab you, or if you throw a banana and I shield I'm free to punish you, etc).

If your generalisation of the match up is shield fair and Banana toss OoS you wouldn't be winning against Mikehaze (I know you said you couldn't really do anything to him playing him in friendlies). +2 kinda looks to me like a match up a less prominent player can pull off an upset with, and this is where the upper level of his disadvantage against MK come in... It's been a while (that I'm aware of) where any marth just loses to 'any' mk. Is the same/worse said for diddy?

 

[Luigi player]

Luigi player:
-I don't think a single of your U-Smash's landed. The one that did land he Up-B'd it after the first hit and you lost the exchange ultimately. I use to really advocate using U-Smash, but the reality is that if it misses you eat a lot of damage, so the only character I really see a use for it against is Snake (when under <10% because it can lead to another Usmash or two/other combos) or D3. Maybe some other big/heavies like Bowser or DK I guess-the less common MU's. Basically as a rule of thumb never Usmash (unless they are directly above you I guess?) in any MU with quicker/lighter characters. Never. Break the habit, as I am currently doing.

I know =\ most of the time it's me just misclicking and/or trying to mash too early... I should really work on my "techskill", because it looks really bad sometimes >_<
Other usmashes in the later matches worked though and they were nice, I just have to use it in the right situations.

-I think you need to stay away from the edge and recover lower more often - I saw you eat some unnessasary damage by trying to recover parrelell to Marth. Marth (despite his spike) has very little realistic options against you when recovering lower than the edge of the stage, so it is basically a free recovery without eating unnessasary damage.

Orion also told me I should recover low more often... but idk, when I recover low he can just go down there and hit me, or guess correctly when I will release upB to edgehog me. To me this possibility of the opponent guessing correctly is really too risky (even though they might not like 90% of the time lol).

-I saw you die the same way I do sometimes, which is rushing an Up-B. All Diddy's do this from time to time but this is just a little reminder that in a panic situation you are typically better off if you fully, completely charge an Up-B than trying to rush it.

Well I think I only died once from this in the 2nd match on my 2nd stock, but I wanted to take a risk there to try to edgeguard him since I already had 80 % on him... in the end I shouldn't have used my dj and just fair him but die too. I also thought that I'll reach the edge, didn't even get edgehogged.
But I know what you mean, and I experienced that enough too so don't worry I always think about that. ^^

-I like your style. It was minimal camping and a lot of aggro. Very in your face. Leon is also an in your face player. Entertaining matches. That said, here and there if he is in the air sometimes think about just standing there in your shield and punish his air attacks on reaction.

-Really great use of U-air, that was easily your most effective air attack in the MU.

I don't know why people think I play aggro. I do it sometimes, but most of the time I was camping and waiting for him to do something. It's just that Leon is always in your face and it's really difficult to camp then. I already tried that vs Mr R, but he got through it so I try to be defensive but also offensive depending on the situation (sometimes it's just way more rewarding and if I only camp I won't have any reward if he hits me and I get shut down then...). It's also way more predictable if I just camp :\

-I didn't see many combo's really on him, you seemed to struggle to get both bananas under your control which is what leads to setups that lead to massive damage. To rectify this try up throwing bananas more: it keeps them in play with active hit boxes and if the banana in your hand hits typically the up-thrown banana will be around so you can continue the combo. Come to think of it, I don't think you really threw a banana up but once or twice?

You're right, the bananas thrown up do help a lot, I did it in later matches xD
Combos are too risky, because of Marths upB. I know it's a guessing game and if he missis it can be bad for him too, but the bad part is Diddy doesn't really have a good punish for that that's why Mr R kept upBing (in our sets a few months ago) and to such great success that I was so scared to even do anything near him... it catches me offguard without DI so often and he can always do it... it even hits behind him if he reverses it... ugh.

-I think you over-used side-B. Most Diddy's do this, and I probably under use it. If I had to guess you were about 1/4th side-B humps and 3/4th side B kicks. Try to make it a little less predictable, again just estimatining but your success ratio overall with side-B was just barely in your favor I think.

There was a time where I used it even more, lol.
Against Leon I mostly used it to move around though. I know I got punished often, but at least I always got where I wanted to be...

-At the start of each match you were pretty good with grabs but toward the middle and end you stopped grabbing. I make the same mistake a lot as well and then kick myself for it later - grabbing is always one of your best options since it beats shielding and it conditions people to spot dodge, which is good for bananas. Not only that but grab's have super armor if they hit on the same frame as an attack and that has helped me more times than I can count.

I grabbed really often, even if he had more %, but then I predicted wrong/had bad spacing and got punished >_<

-You had very little use of Fsmash and very few of your bananas landed which means you were not predicting his attacks at all in order to cause trips/combos. You have to try to read him a little better (I know you won the second game but he had no business making it that close after you were up 70-80% on his last stock - you gotta try to set up that nana/peanut wall).

I actually used it pretty often xD I just got punished most of the time though :\ like I always wait for him to land and trip on the banana, but he always just fairs I need more variety to not be predictable...


Thanks for the critique though.

watching games 1 and 2 you just kept airdodging into him dude, if you just attack instead...

that's what ramin told me and i agreed w/ him after reviewing the vids again

Yeah I know.. I changed that in match 3 and 4 xD
But I dunno, it's just that he outranges me and he could also upB me so I'm trying to not get hit... :\

@Alphazealot

Marth's options on shield from the air have less disadvantage on shield than you have options fast enough.
"Just shield a fair" is a really silly thing to say. Your nana is 8 frames out of shield and thats right on top of you, not considering marth's range and his fair is only 4 frames disadvantaged (ff'd mind you.... but feasibly various degrees of vertical placement makes fair 'safe')

Diddy Kong's waiting in shield is the utmost preferable thing in my experience.
Because if a diddy's shielding with a banana, he can't grab, and they're generally waiting. I know I can do things completely safe on his shield and have a pressure advantage upon that fast fall landing (I can grab you, or if you throw a banana and I shield I'm free to punish you, etc).

If your generalisation of the match up is shield fair and Banana toss OoS you wouldn't be winning against Mikehaze (I know you said you couldn't really do anything to him playing him in friendlies). +2 kinda looks to me like a match up a less prominent player can pull off an upset with, and this is where the upper level of his disadvantage against MK come in... It's been a while (that I'm aware of) where any marth just loses to 'any' mk. Is the same/worse said for diddy?

Yeah you can't just wait in your shield and then throw a banana OOS to punish fairs and stuff :\
Marth can also upB so your banana misses and you might even get caught with bad DI since the move is so stupidly fast...
Moving away from (to be more safe, and then punish him with a bananathrow or w/e) or to Marth (to fair him or something) is much better from my experience.

 

[mikeHAZE]

good job though LP. good set.

 

[Yikarur]

did you know that LP is actually really shy? :x

 

[Mr-R]

watching games 1 and 2 you just kept airdodging into him dude, if you just attack instead...

that's what ramin told me and i agreed w/ him after reviewing the vids again

yeah lol I think if the diddy plays more agressive in the air, marth has more trouble getting in hits because of that broken *** fair

 

[Yikarur]

yeah lol I think if the diddy plays more agressive in the air, marth has more trouble getting in hits because of that broken *** fair

you're a bad actor LOL

 

[Luigi player]

did you know that LP is actually really shy? :x

And you are the opposite of shy and just annoy everyone with your never-ending talk :D

yeah lol I think if the diddy plays more agressive in the air, marth has more trouble getting in hits because of that broken *** fair

Fair isnt even that good its so **** laggy. I really like bair lately though ^_^

 

[Yikarur]

And you are the opposite of shy and just annoy everyone with your never-ending talk :D



Fair isnt even that good its so **** laggy. I really like bair lately though ^_^

You forgot the "Thanks Mike" Part, isn't that the reason for all the last posts being posted???

 

[-Googs]

you're a waste of flesh ^

 

[Vega4]

Why is Peach -1????
She is one of easiest matches for Diddy. If she try to use her air game to aboid nanners, you just have to f*** her with peanuts or use your side B kick...

 

[DFEAR]

Why is Peach -1????
She is one of easiest matches for Diddy. If she try to use her air game to aboid nanners, you just have to f*** her with peanuts or use your side B kick...and some fairs here and there

fixd
this 10x.

imma PrEACH it here first folks.

peach cannot beat diddy. its at BEST +0 or +1. illmatic/kyon proof <-

 

[vato_break]

diddy beats mario slightly btw, if you want me to explain i will.

 

[-Googs]

please do vato