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BBR Matchup Chart

Ingulit

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http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298484

These are all of Diddy's matchups according to the BBR. Thoughts?

:diddy:
-1: :snake: :wario: :peach: :luigi2:
0: :metaknight: :falco: :olimar: :toonlink: :kirby2: :rob: :pit: :mario2:
1: :marth: :popo: :pikachu2: :dedede: :gw: :lucario: :zerosuitsamus: :fox: :wolf: :sheilda: :ike: :sheik: :ness2: :pt:
2: :dk2: :sonic: :yoshi2: :lucas: :falcon: :samus2: :jigglypuff: :link2: :zelda:
3: :bowser2: :ganondorf:

Legend
-4: (close to) unwinnable
-3: large disadvantage/hard countered
-2: medium disadvantage
-1: small disadvantage
0: even
+1: small advantage
+2: medium advantage
+3: large advantage/hard counter
+4: (close to) unloseable

I still can't wrap my head around why people think we have a good MU vs. Marth.

I like the rest though.
 

Luigi player

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http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=298484

These are all of Diddy's matchups according to the BBR. Thoughts?

:diddy:
-1: :snake: :wario: :peach: :luigi2:
0: :metaknight: :falco: :olimar: :toonlink: :kirby2: :rob: :pit: :mario2:
1: :marth: :popo: :pikachu2: :dedede: :gw: :lucario: :zerosuitsamus: :fox: :wolf: :sheilda: :ike: :sheik: :ness2: :pt:
2: :dk2: :sonic: :yoshi2: :lucas: :falcon: :samus2: :jigglypuff: :link2: :zelda:
3: :bowser2: :ganondorf:
Imo Diddy does def not go even with Mario lol. It should be +1. Same with Kirby and ROB. Not sure about Pit since there is no LGL assumed? Not sure about Tonn Link either since at the start of Brawl people thought he beats Diddy but afaik ADHD/others always beat TLs if they face some...

And Peach and Luigi do not beat Diddy. Best thing would be they go even, which I also doubt. Diddy beats them at least +1.

Wario is arguable I guess since he could theoretically outtime Diddy (esp on gay CPs) and stuff... still nobody ever did it so it should at least be even right now imo.

Yoshi I think could only be as good as +1 for Diddy. Not entirely sure though... I guess it depends on what you think is +1 and +2... but if I look at the list of chars that Diddy has at +1 it seems like some of them are easier than Yoshi...

Snake I think Diddy goes even with or beats, but I guess I can understand if people think Snake beats Diddy.
And yeah MK is def Diddys worst MU. So he should be -1 too.
 

Player-1

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Please don't tell me that I'm the only Diddy here that would much rather play against a Mario than a Marth or ICs.
 

tibs7

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Lol so true p1.
Effing ******* seriously.
Shaya you idiot. *sigh*
 

AlphaZealot

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Wait seriously? You guys struggle with Marth?

Wow. Learn to projectile spam guys...and I don't even spam and this MU is easy. That vid is old to, you should see what I do to Marth's now.
 

AlphaZealot

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Correct. Marth is...well not easy, but we definitely don't have a disadvantage. We got an advantage for sure. Marth has no projectile, and average recovery, and you can practically punish every single approach he has with banana OoS. I just summed up 90% of the Marth MU in 1 sentence.
 

AlphaZealot

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Personally I have more trouble with Mario than Marth. Mario's got a projectile and a reflector (that is also a Diddy recovery gimp). He just sucks at KOing easily (but so does Marth-except for easy-to-avoid tippers and Up-B's OoS). I think I had Marth at like +2 and Mario at 0. Just cause Marth is higher on the tier list doesn't mean he is a better character in this MU.
 

Player-1

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he's definitely a better character in this MU >.>

his reflector is super easy to punish and then aside from that you play him like you play marth minus the sword, his fireballs are pretty easy to shield while you're camping him. Marth is definitely not +2, I personally feel the MU is even when the Marth actually knows the MU, but IDK the Marth MU that well either so IDK.
 

AlphaZealot

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All Marth can do is pray his Fair's catch your nanas. Looking back I'd guess Mario is probably +1ish but every time I fight a Mario I always get caught off guard by something stupid cause no one plays the character. That for me is a factor in the MU (the existence of only 4 good Mario's countrywide).
 

Player-1

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what do you mean pray >.>? It's not hard to predict the catch the nana a Fair from marth, that's what I usually have a problem with in the Marth MU, they always catch my projectile and get through my wall of peanuts and bananas by catching one of the two.
 

Player-1

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the few other problems I have with this is that I think DK should be plus 1. He lives for a long time and kill diddy early, normally that's not a problem if you camp properly, but depending on the starter stages it can be a problem. My state has YI, SV, FD, BF, and Lylat as neutrals. Normally I end up going to BF as opposed to lylat and YI which all of which are good stages for DK, something stupid can happen to you in your starter game and then DK gets a big advantage as far as stages go since you'll probably go to SV next, then he can choose YI, RC, Brinstar, and Lylat. Still if you camp properly you should still win, but that's why I think it's +1 as opposed to +2. Not to mention he is stupidely good against Diddy offstage

Yoshi also isn't that bad IMO against Diddy. He's one of the heavier characters in the game, and with good DI you can live to the 180's a lot. He has the 2nd longest trip in the game, but it still isn't that big as compared to Luigi's so you can still punish him pretty well, but it doesn't hurt him. His up-b has huge priority and is actually a very good projectile, and he can cancel his midair jump with a banana throw which simulated an aerial glidetoss and works well, he can also kill you fairly early.

I think Lucas and Ness should be switched. Lucas' PK fire can block bananas, and I also feel he can kill diddy earlier and that his aerials work much better against Diddy than Ness's do.

Jiggz I think it plus 1. Jiggz has a much easier time killing Diddy than she does against most of the cast, it can still be difficult though with a good camp set up. Her aerial mobility really helps in the MU and air camping diddy, and she is really good at gimping diddy.

Fox I think should be +2, seriously all you do against that character is put a banana in front of you when you get 110-120+ and he can't kill you. If you try to Usmash over it it forces you to do a dash attack.

Sonic I think should be +1 as well, it's difficult to get a kill move off of Sonic, but same goes for him to you, you just rack damage up much faster than him so we usually get the kill first.

MK should also be -1, they can control the stage really well if they get momentum going, same goes for us, but they can recover from having momentum thrown against them much better than we can. Not to mention against good MKs if you get offstage either you're not coming back or you're taking a **** ton of damage in the process.
 

AlphaZealot

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Don't throw a banana at Marth while he is short hoping or running straight toward you (cause dash > retreating Fair is like 3/4ths of their tell). This will solve most of your banana catching problems.

EDIT: Also just stand there holding a banana sometimes (shield or spotdodge when necessary). It will drive them crazy. Almost always leads to dancing blade which is just shielding then OoS nana.
 

DFEAR

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<- actual practice from will

if anything i think dk is a 65 35 matchup man im sorry.

sideb eats donkey punch and grounded upb. viable approach options for dk against diddy? nothing. its completely the player's fault if he gets put in a bad position not diddy's.

you have to be stupid to lose to dk im sorry
 

DFEAR

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hes stupid. the incarnate of *********** itself, the malicious atrocity to intelligence. no offense wyatt ^.^;


also that was 1 game...serious mode = win, careless mode = loss

obvious :p?
 

Player-1

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agreed.

Still, I don't think Will knows the MU as well as a few other DKs, the only notable one right now I can think of D0N who is a great DK who used to live in Australia and said that he had a bunch of practice from tibs in the MU. Anti's DK in the MU is pretty good, but most of Anti's characters are good in the MU. I have no idea why Will decided to CP halberd in that MU...<,<


And I'll take your advice AZ, last time you gave me advice in the MU it was to pummel them at the ledge for a ground break because they like to midair jump fair and just to dsmash and that's gotten me some low percent kills on Marth, even still =p
 

~ Gheb ~

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Mario is either +2 or +1 idk my Mario isn't good and the Diddy I practice with kinda ***** me no matter which character I use so I might think it's worse than it actually is.

Marth is +2, DDD and GW are both +2 or higher. Diddy solidly beats Peach and Luigi and is even with Wario. Yoshi on the other hand is a difficult match-up for Diddy and I'd say vs a really good Yoshi it's not higher than +1.

And are you sure Diddy beats ICs? I think the match-up is about even [but then again BBR stagelist allows some dumb CPs which might tip is in Diddy's favor].

:059:
 

~ Gheb ~

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Wolf is +1 for Diddy. He does better than Marth for various reasons.

Wolf outweighs Marth notably.
Wolf is more agile in the air and handles bananas better as a result [something I don't think Kain excels at].
Wolf has DACUS, DACIT and Shine to manipulate, punish or use bananas. Marth doesn't have the same tools.
Wolf has a projectile - that's not much in terms of damage output but useful for chip damage and additional safety when approaching and camping.
Wolf has a MUCH easier time landing vs Diddy than Marth does imo. I'd say with his mobility, shine and B-reverse blaster Wolf has some of the most reliable tools to get back on the ground.

I don't think Kain is very good at the match-up tbh.

Edit: I also see Lp is visiting this thread. He knows the match-up by heart, unfortunately.
Edit: I highly doubt that AZ would beat Semifer tbqh. Not to conclude too much from that but I think a Wolf player needs notable, refined techskill before you can use ANY player as an example for the match-up.

Another Edit: I think Diddy is Marth's worst match-up tbh. I think a lot of people are misunderstanding Marth when they say MK holds him back. I think the opposite is the case - his reasonably good match-up vs MK is what makes him more viable in actuality [kind of like Spacies and Pikachu benefiting from MK] but should Diddy / ICs / DDD become more prominent in the metagame, that's when Marth would become weaker.

:059:
 

AlphaZealot

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It is hard to compare cross-ocean, but Kain is considered the best Wolf in the US by a pretty decent margin (only person close to him is Choice). I don't think his tech skill is really a problem. He also knows a very good 40%ish combo off of one banana.
 

clowsui

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Don't throw a banana at Marth while he is short hoping or running straight toward you (cause dash > retreating Fair is like 3/4ths of their tell). This will solve most of your banana catching problems.

EDIT: Also just stand there holding a banana sometimes (shield or spotdodge when necessary). It will drive them crazy. Almost always leads to dancing blade which is just shielding then OoS nana.
letting you know now that as soon as the summer's over steel and i will be official warriors

and you're going to eat your words, marth vs diddy kong is only +2 on SV/PS1/FD. +1 other places

:bee:

in all seriousness i dunno i think marth has tons of pressure options vs diddy kong when he has platforms and makes it super hard for diddy to recover if he executes his ledge trap properly...while marth's movement is severely hindered by diddy and marth has trouble killing diddy/disrupting certain setups i would say that if the marth has a strong sense of when/where to retreat, it could easily be only a +1. all US marths are terrible vs diddy imo

that's not to say i'm any better LOL
 

clowsui

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i put US only because i haven't seen enough europe play (seriously, you all don't have enough videos + tournaments lol)

so i dunno. i haven't seen a marth play the matchup like i think it should go yet other than ramin, but my thoughts have changed on the MU since last i watched ramin vs LP from a few months ago so even that's a tough call. if i were forced to say someone, pierce's god mode vs diddy kong is probably best, along w/ ramin
 
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