Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[Dinoman96]

So, Gregg Mayles did indeed comment on the situation, a little less than a year ago:

Gregg strikes me as a forward thinking creative type who doesn't think much of projects he's completed (on the 'come back in a decade' joke in N&B, he said he 'expected Banjo to have been long forgotten by now'). I can only imagine he was dejected by the response to N&B; judging by old interviews from the game's release there were a lot more ideas spring-boarded off of the vehicle concept that he wanted to implement in a "Banjo-Fourie", and well, fans wanted a modern take on old material. So it goes...

This forward thinking approach is what got us Banjo-Kazooie in the first place, as Gregg and his team previously worked on DKC 1 & 2, before deciding that they wanted to move on to a new IP, hence why DKC was handed off to a new development team at Rare who created DKC3 and DK64. They then conceived "Project Dream", went ended up transforming into Banjo-Kazooie as we know it by the end.

It was kind of the same thing with Banjo. After Tooie was wrapped up, the Banjo team was already planning to move on to a new IP for Gamecube...Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Threeie was never actually planned.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

This forward thinking approach is what got us Banjo-Kazooie in the first place, as Gregg and his team previously worked on DKC 1 & 2, before deciding that they wanted to move on to a new IP, hence why DKC was handed off to a new development team at Rare who created DKC3 and DK64. They then conceived "Project Dream", went ended up transforming into Banjo-Kazooie as we know it by the end.

It was kind of the same thing with Banjo. After Tooie was wrapped up, the Banjo team was already planning to move on to a new IP for Gamecube...Grabbed by the Ghoulies. Threeie was never actually planned.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Then what was Banjo X?

 

[dlewis53]

Solid burn. I must also contribute this.

View attachment 224824

Microsoft are really sleeping on such a big marketing pitch to the kiddos. They really dont have much on terms of IP's the appeal to kids aside from Minecraft. If Banjo can appeal to both older and younger people then I feel that has greater lasting and widespread appeal. I can totally see all ages wearing Banjo-kazooie shirts and merch. I always see people of my age range wearing Nintendo 64 shirts as opposed to them wearing Minecraft stuff.

Hell, I'm pretty sure the general cartoony design of the game is what attracted ME to it back when I was a kid! So I REALLY don't get the belief that kids wouldn't like the duo.

 

[CosmicQuark]

So, Gregg Mayles did indeed comment on the situation, a little less than a year ago:

Gregg strikes me as a forward thinking creative type who doesn't think much of projects he's completed (on the 'come back in a decade' joke in N&B, he said he 'expected Banjo to have been long forgotten by now'). I can only imagine he was dejected by the response to N&B; judging by old interviews from the game's release there were a lot more ideas spring-boarded off of the vehicle concept that he wanted to implement in a "Banjo-Fourie", and well, fans wanted a modern take on old material. So it goes...

The issue with Gregg's approach, and why Nuts & Bolts was denounced by fans but liked by other gamers, is because the concept didn't fit Banjo whatsoever. It was a neat idea that he should have created a new IP for, rather than slap on Banjo's name. On the plus side, Nuts & Bolts did introduce the characters to a new audience, as well as an audience that didn't like their platforming games. But if you want to make such a different game, you make it a spin off while planning a legitimate follow up, not as a replacement for one, or create a new IP entirely.

 

[Vector Victor]

Solid burn. I must also contribute this.

View attachment 224824

Microsoft are really sleeping on such a big marketing pitch to the kiddos. They really dont have much on terms of IP's the appeal to kids aside from Minecraft. If Banjo can appeal to both older and younger people then I feel that has greater lasting and widespread appeal. I can totally see all ages wearing Banjo-kazooie shirts and merch. I always see people of my age range wearing Nintendo 64 shirts as opposed to them wearing Minecraft stuff.

There does seem to be this odd resentment towards 90s and some 00s characters from parts of the fanbase.....and SmashFAQs. Bringing up certain characters from then that you hope are playable such as Banjo, Geno, Isaac, K Rool (before being confirmed), Dixie, etc gets met with whining about 90s nostaglia, relevancy or 'boomers.' Some fans have come up with dumb fan rules before but now it looks like the relevancy argument has been twisted into an anti-90s attitude.

Seeing that, its funny since so far the Ultimate roster consists mostly of 80s and 10s newcomers, with only 2 being 90 and 1 from 00. Not to mention how the entire roster has the most characters from the 80s. Yea but 90s are the problem, ok, that's why Banjo can't work.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

The issue with Gregg's approach, and why Nuts & Bolts was denounced by fans but liked by other gamers, is because the concept didn't fit Banjo whatsoever. It was a neat idea that he should have created a new IP for, rather than slap on Banjo's name. On the plus side, Nuts & Bolts did introduce the characters to a new audience, as well as an audience that didn't like their platforming games. But if you want to make such a different game, you make it a spin off while planning a legitimate follow up, not as a replacement for one, or create a new IP entirely.

^^^^^^ This
I actually enjoyed Nuts and Bolts as a building and racing game, but not a Banjo game... and that's the whole problem

I can guarantee that N&B would have been infinitely been much more well received had it been its own unique IP with it's own original characters and setting; but instead they put a Banjo-Kazooie paint-job over it and tried to pass it off as Threeie.

 

[AngrySun88]

So, Gregg Mayles did indeed comment on the situation, a little less than a year ago:

Gregg strikes me as a forward thinking creative type who doesn't think much of projects he's completed (on the 'come back in a decade' joke in N&B, he said he 'expected Banjo to have been long forgotten by now'). I can only imagine he was dejected by the response to N&B; judging by old interviews from the game's release there were a lot more ideas spring-boarded off of the vehicle concept that he wanted to implement in a "Banjo-Fourie", and well, fans wanted a modern take on old material. So it goes...

This gives me more hope for Banjo. He's not outright denying or confirming, just stating the facts about who owns the copyright to the character. He doesn't seem like someone who would stand in the way of Banjo appearing in Smash and I get the feeling that others at Rare would jump at the opportunity.

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The only thing that could hold Banjo Kazooie back now is if he wasn't on Nintendo's list of characters for Sakurai to use but considering that Joker was chosen as the first DLC fighter, It makes me question whether Sakurai was given a list of characters to use or a list of companies to contact to choose a character.

 

[Vector Victor]

^^^^^^ This
I actually enjoyed Nuts and Bolts as a building and racing game, but not a Banjo game... and that's the whole problem

I can guarantee that N&B would have been infinitely been much more well received had it been its own unique IP with it's own original characters and setting; but instead they put a Banjo-Kazooie paint-job over it and tried to pass it off as Threeie.

Same complaint I saw for Chrono Cross. 'Fine game on its own, but a jumbled mess by trying to force Chrono Trigger into it.'


Also, didn't Nuts and Bolts mock BK fans? Biting the Hand Humor works when its on your company, but rarely succeeds when its directed towards your own fans.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Also, didn't Nuts and Bolts mock BK fans? Biting the Hand Humor works when its on your company, but rarely succeeds when its directed towards your own fans.

See, I always had this minor conspiracy theory about the Lord of Games being a subtle 'take that' to higher-ups forcing Banjo into cars.

Look at him from the context of the game: He's an insufferable, all-powerful know-it all who swoops in and interrupts the game we WANT to play completely dumps on platformers being slow and out of date; and blatantly says "We need new demographics" and forces the car gimmick onto Banjo and Grunty.
The story of this game is literally:
"We want to do things the way we're used to!"
"No, you're doing this MY way because I say so and I know better than you. Now do it and shut up"

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I can't believe how many people are quoting "Only boomers want Banjo, lol" memes in the replies of Lenny's tweet. Not only do Kids These Days have no class and no taste, they don't actually know what a boomer is.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Those are the only Rayman games I've played and yes, they are fantastic. Rayman would be a fun addition to Smash but I worry he's not high-profile enough. Yes, he's allegedly Ubisoft's mascot, but how often do they actually take him out of mothballs? When I hear Ubisoft, I think Assassin's Creed first and Rayman second.

Solid burn. I must also contribute this.

View attachment 224824

Microsoft are really sleeping on such a big marketing pitch to the kiddos. They really dont have much on terms of IP's the appeal to kids aside from Minecraft. If Banjo can appeal to both older and younger people then I feel that has greater lasting and widespread appeal. I can totally see all ages wearing Banjo-kazooie shirts and merch. I always see people of my age range wearing Nintendo 64 shirts as opposed to them wearing Minecraft stuff.

Don't forget they still have to beg to their mommies to buy them a Nintendo Switch and copy of Smash let alone DLC. (Waves Cane at them)

 

[Mr. Stagg]

This gives me more hope for Banjo. He's not outright denying or confirming, just stating the facts about who owns the copyright to the character. He doesn't seem like someone who would stand in the way of Banjo appearing in Smash and I get the feeling that others at Rare would jump at the opportunity.

This also shows just how much influence Phil's got in this endeavor. If this is being handled by the upper suit's then Phil would most definitely have made a pitch to get Banjo-kazooie in Smash. Beforehand, he wouldn't be quiet about it. Now....silence....

Spoiler

 

[Substitute]

Phil would most definitely have made a pitch to get Banjo-kazooie in Smash

This is just silly. The only way Banjo makes it into Smash is if Nintendo makes the first move.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Heeeeey it's ME again with another image for you to digest into your eyeballs!

So remember awhile back that Paragon guy was talking about paperwork for a Banjo amiibo being purportedly seen for inventory purposes? Well Paragon is back with a huge recap plus some additional information

I'm putting it under a spoiler tag since it is a veritable wall of words. If you just want a summary (Though I recommend reading the image for yourself) here it is: According to Paragon, Banjo is now being backed by someone who actually knew Joker's release date during the drought!

Spoiler: Paragon on Banjo Amiibo and new information

 

[Vector Victor]

See, I always had this minor conspiracy theory about the Lord of Games being a subtle 'take that' to higher-ups forcing Banjo into cars.

Look at him from the context of the game: He's an insufferable, all-powerful know-it all who swoops in and interrupts the game we WANT to play completely dumps on platformers being slow and out of date; and blatantly says "We need new demographics" and forces the car gimmick onto Banjo and Grunty.
The story of this game is literally:
"We want to do things the way we're used to!"
"No, you're doing this MY way because I say so and I know better than you. Now do it and shut up"

Perhaps.

But LOG was also behind Canary Mary's minigame, so he can burn for that for all I care.


Of course, having an initially independent game and switching in established lore or characters from another game or series into it can also be successful in the end. See: Smash Brothers.

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Banjo has potential to be a franchise that has spin offs like nuts and bolts, but the series obviously was dormant for too long for just a spin off to be the only game in such a long time. Nobody complained when Diddy Kong Racing came out that it was a disgrace to DK and shouldve been a new IP, but it came out shortly after DKC3 and DK64 was on the horizon. If a standard Banjo game came out on Xbox and Nuts and Bolts still came out in 2008, there wouldnt be nearly as much complaints. The way they handled it reminds me a lot of how Nintendo was handling Metroid recently, when after we went so long without a 2D Metorid or Prime game Nintendo sharts out Federation Force and expects people to be ok with just a spin off after so long.

 

[GenoFlash]

Heeeeey it's ME again with another image for you to digest into your eyeballs!

So remember awhile back that Paragon guy was talking about paperwork for a Banjo amiibo being purportedly seen for inventory purposes? Well Paragon is back with a huge recap plus some additional information

I'm putting it under a spoiler tag since it is a veritable wall of words. If you just want a summary (Though I recommend reading the image for yourself) here it is: According to Paragon, Banjo is now being backed by someone who actually knew Joker's release date during the drought!

Spoiler: Paragon on Banjo Amiibo and new information

View attachment 224859

Any way to confirm that that post was made on March 19th on PapaGenos' discord anyone?

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Any way to confirm that that post was made on March 19th on PapaGenos' discord anyone?

That's a DM

 

[Shawksta]

Gregg telling us that he wouldn’t have any input about Banjo in smash because of Microsoft, who would, should also be given the same idea for Steve and Mojang. Besides, people are still dismissing Aubrey’s opinion anyway, but it’s still something to consider

 

[GenoFlash]

That's a DM

Ah. That can be easily faked. Loz18 did that.

 

[Shawksta]

Heeeeey it's ME again with another image for you to digest into your eyeballs!

So remember awhile back that Paragon guy was talking about paperwork for a Banjo amiibo being purportedly seen for inventory purposes? Well Paragon is back with a huge recap plus some additional information

I'm putting it under a spoiler tag since it is a veritable wall of words. If you just want a summary (Though I recommend reading the image for yourself) here it is: According to Paragon, Banjo is now being backed by someone who actually knew Joker's release date during the drought!

Spoiler: Paragon on Banjo Amiibo and new information

View attachment 224859

Eeeeeeeh, correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure we aren’t even done with the base game Amiibo, I don’t think we should listen to DLC Amiibo of all things since those things take forever anyway.
We probably won’t see Joker until late next year

 

[TheAnvil]

Heeeeey it's ME again with another image for you to digest into your eyeballs!

So remember awhile back that Paragon guy was talking about paperwork for a Banjo amiibo being purportedly seen for inventory purposes? Well Paragon is back with a huge recap plus some additional information

I'm putting it under a spoiler tag since it is a veritable wall of words. If you just want a summary (Though I recommend reading the image for yourself) here it is: According to Paragon, Banjo is now being backed by someone who actually knew Joker's release date during the drought!

Spoiler: Paragon on Banjo Amiibo and new information

View attachment 224859

We'd have to believe Bowsettagon AND his/her alleged sources to be legit to believe this. So this could be nothing unless there's a proven track record here.

 

[Vector Victor]

The amiibo line-up is odd. The second wave included Plant, a DLC character (granted, he could have been base game planned but was still very late), but the rest look like randomized release dates. Ricter, Dark Samus and Chrom were the first half of Ultimate's reveals and they don't even have their amiibo designs shown , let alone planned sell dates. Simon and Snake are coming out a year after they were shown in game. Pokemon Trainer, Squirtle and Ivysaur are not being released side by side. In fact, Plant was the 4th newcomer to get their amiibo released, despite being playable barely a few weeks earlier. And, Mewtwo's amiibo (DLC) came out before Falco's (Base).

I fully expect to see Joker's amiibo before the rest of the base game are even announced.

 

[JonSmash]

not only that but stores don't even get amiibo anymore ! gamestop gets ALL these other nintendo toys to sell but they NEVER get any new amiibo :/ always say go buy it online

the hardest smash ultimate amiibo to get are wolf & piranha plant, they never whent to the stores near me & were only availble online & I could never get them, & they never restock them ether ! & wasn't wolf on of the more popular wanted cut characters ? why are they not stocking more of him ?

 

[Megadoomer]

not only that but stores don't even get amiibo anymore ! gamestop gets ALL these other nintendo toys to sell but they NEVER get any new amiibo :/ always say go buy it online

the hardest smash ultimate amiibo to get are wolf & piranha plant, they never whent to the stores near me & were only availble online & I could never get them, & they never restock them ether ! & wasn't wolf on of the more popular wanted cut characters ? why are they not stocking more of him ?

If I had to guess, it's because interest in the whole "toys to life" thing has plummeted, between Skylanders, Disney Infinity, and Lego Dimensions shutting down.

Of the stores in my area, EB Games will get amiibos when new ones release (along with a random smattering of older ones), but Best Buy only seems to have Animal Crossing amiibo, while Toys R Us and Wal Mart seem to have stopped stocking them entirely. (the entire amiibo section in Toys R Us was gone when I went to check for K. Rool, which was unfortunate since they were the most likely to stock characters like Palutena, Bowser Junior, or Lucas)

 

[ColtonS25]

If somebody could at least verify the first claim by asking PapaGenos that would be a start. Doesn’t mean it’s true, just could prove that the convo did occur and wasn’t artificially created out of nowhere. Would be a of way of potentially debunking the statement.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

If I had to guess, it's because interest in the whole "toys to life" thing has plummeted, between Skylanders, Disney Infinity, and Lego Dimensions shutting down.

I have another minor conspiracy theory: Disney is the reason Toys to Life died.

I followed the Disney Infinity line very closely at it's peak. The announcement it was shutting down came RIGHT in the middle of a new line of figures and everything just kind of slammed on the breaks. If you look online you'll find a ton of design documents, mockups, even unfinished cutscenes of what was to be added. Disney just pulled the plug on it out of nowhere.

So naturally when you see a titan like Disney suddenly running away, it gives the impression of "This business venture is going down! Abandon Ship!". So Lego pulled out and hopped off a ship that was barely sinking. Skylanders was kind of rooted in place, and with everyone thinking TTL was dead, it quietly faded away

If somebody could at least verify the first claim by asking PapaGenos that would be a start. Doesn’t mean it’s true, just could prove that the convo did occur and wasn’t artificially created out of nowhere. Would be a of way of potentially debunking the statement.

That image is currently pinned up in his Discord, but we can just ask papagenos himself to elaborate

 

[TheAnvil]

I have another minor conspiracy theory: Disney is the reason Toys to Life died.

I followed the Disney Infinity line very closely at it's peak. The announcement it was shutting down came RIGHT in the middle of a new line of figures and everything just kind of slammed on the breaks. If you look online you'll find a ton of design documents, mockups, even unfinished cutscenes of what was to be added. Disney just pulled the plug on it out of nowhere.

So naturally when you see a titan like Disney suddenly running away, it gives the impression of "This business venture is going down! Abandon Ship!". So Lego pulled out and hopped off a ship that was barely sinking. Skylanders was kind of rooted in place, and with everyone thinking TTL was dead, it quietly faded away



That image is currently pinned up in his Discord, but we can just ask papagenos himself to elaborate

To the extent where thousands of functional Peter Pan figures were produced but not officially released... They just never released the update to make the figure work in game.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Someone once said it, but Nuts and Bolts should have been a Tiptup game

 

[MissingGlitch]

To the extent where thousands of functional Peter Pan figures were produced but not officially released... They just never released the update to make the figure work in game.

I wish they would still release them but remove the toys to life aspect of it all. I think a major part of what made amiibos so good is that, yes they had game functionality but they were still high quality figures of characters that didn't have merchandise or extremely rare merchandise. You can say the same thing about a lot of the Disney infinity figures and Lego dimensions figures. Some of those characters never had any sort of merchandise. The whole thing is a good idea but they relied to much on the toys of life aspect of it and not the figure part of it. Pop figures need the competition that isn't just other pop figure ripoffs.

 

[TheAnvil]

I wish they would still release them but remove the toys to life aspect of it all. I think a major part of what made amiibos so good is that, yes they had game functionality but they were still high quality figures of characters that didn't have merchandise or extremely rare merchandise. You can say the same thing about a lot of the Disney infinity figures and Lego dimensions figures. Some of those characters never had any sort of merchandise. The whole thing is a good idea but they relied to much on the toys of life aspect of it and not the figure part of it. Pop figures need the competition that isn't just other pop figure ripoffs.

I think the issue was moreso that it lost its identity. Disney became an afterthought from 2.0 onwards, and Marvel/SW (especially the former) demanded figures be made of characters who didn't sell (like Yondu, Ronin and the SW Rebels). Yet we didn't get even get Goofy.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I think the issue was moreso that it lost its identity. Disney became an afterthought from 2.0 onwards, and Marvel/SW (especially the former) demanded figures be made of characters who didn't sell (like Yondu, Ronin and the SW Rebels). Yet we didn't get even get Goofy.

I think it just needs a rebranding to compete with pop figures. Something really needs to compete with those ugly black eye things. And maybe if they remove the NFC stickers and all the unnecessary game parts it would make the figures cheaper as well.

 

[Vector Victor]

Plant amiibo was non-existent in stores. They must have only made 3 in the world. Way to push that DLC hype.

In fact, wave 2 was bad. Ice Climbers were common and K Rool was one week and gone. Wave 3 did better with Ken, Daisy and Y Link.

Funny enough, I go into a random Gamestop to browse one day and I stumble across a Banjo-Kazooie non-amiibo. Snapped that right up but I haven't seen one in a store since.


....hopefully Nintendo does a better job stocking the Banjo Kazooie amiibos when tbey release.

Because Smash characters get amiibos.

And Banjo Kazooie will be playable in Smash.

Hence, their amiibos.

 

[Violante]

So this person reached out to her friend in November of 2018 about the Grinch Leak, and they said they saw documentation for a Banjo amiibo. The Banjo Tokatu figure was announced and revealed a month before that, but at the time this confusion was never resolved. Now it's May of 2019 and suddenly this person has proof that someone else they know predicted Joker's reveal, and oh that Banjo amiibo was actually the Tokatu figure the whole time but also now there is an additional proof of documentation for an actual Banjo amiibo, that is totally an amiibo this time.

I am very skeptical because this sounds like revisionist history in an attempt to string along hopeful people.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Someone once said it, but Nuts and Bolts should have been a Tiptup game

Unfortunately, I think Tiptup is owned by Nintendo now, as he showed up in the DS version that removed Banjo and Conker. But it would have been so great if Diddy Kong Racing was spun-off with its characters, with different genres. Diddy Kong Racing was already a weird shared universe in the nineties.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Unfortunately, I think Tiptup is owned by Nintendo now, as he showed up in the DS version that removed Banjo and Conker. But it would have been so great if Diddy Kong Racing was spun-off with its characters, with different genres. Diddy Kong Racing was already a weird shared universe in the nineties.

All Diddy Kong Racing characters outside of Diddy Kong, Krunch, Dixie & Tiny Kong (DS Version) (Nintendo) are owned by Microsoft/Rare, But for whatever reason Tiptup was still included in the DS version, My assumption is that because Tiptup is a minor character it wasn't viewed as a big issue compared to Banjo and Conker who are the main characters of their respective franchises.

Even in game and the back of the box art says
(Certain Characters were licensed by Rare)

 

[TheCJBrine]

All Diddy Kong Racing characters outside of Diddy Kong and Krunch (Dixie & Tiny Kong DS Version) (Nintendo) are owned by Microsoft/Rare, But for whatever reason Tiptup was still included in the DS version, My assumption is that because Tiptup is a minor character it wasn't viewed as a big issue compared to Banjo and Conker who are the main characters of their respective franchises.

Even in game and the back of the box art says
(Certain Characters were licensed by Rare)View attachment 224912

Wait, they still got Rare involved, but they didn't want to bring back Banjo and Conker? :/

I knew about the DS version before, as my younger brother had/has it, but I didn't know Rare was still involved with the game...

 

[SneakyLink]

All Diddy Kong Racing characters outside of Diddy Kong and Krunch (Dixie & Tiny Kong DS Version) (Nintendo) are owned by Microsoft/Rare, But for whatever reason Tiptup was still included in the DS version, My assumption is that because Tiptup is a minor character it wasn't viewed as a big issue compared to Banjo and Conker who are the main characters of their respective franchises.

Even in game and the back of the box art says
(Certain Characters were licensed by Rare)View attachment 224912

I think Krunch the Kremling is also owned by Nintendo though I could be wrong here.

 

[CosmicQuark]

All Diddy Kong Racing characters outside of Diddy Kong and Krunch (Dixie & Tiny Kong DS Version) (Nintendo) are owned by Microsoft/Rare, But for whatever reason Tiptup was still included in the DS version, My assumption is that because Tiptup is a minor character it wasn't viewed as a big issue compared to Banjo and Conker who are the main characters of their respective franchises.

Even in game and the back of the box art says
(Certain Characters were licensed by Rare)View attachment 224912

Huh, that's weird that they allowed Tiptup, but not Banjo or Conker. We need that Diddy Kong Racing extended universe even more now (sans Diddy).

 

[Planet Cool]

I swear, when Banjo and Kazooie debut at E3, everyone spamming "OKAY BOOMER" memes in my tweet is getting a big fat laughing Nelson jpeg.