Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[pupNapoleon]

Yeah, dismissing Geno's popularity is also dismissing a key merit of Banjo's. And I believe each would rely on fan demand to overcome bigger names from their respective companies. However, I believe Banjo has additional merits past his popularity that Geno lacks, which would be decisive in his inclusion. Not to say the popularity wouldn't do the heavy lifting, or prompt initial consideration, I just don't believe that Banjo's inclusion would be 100% owing to active fan pull, where I do believe Geno's would be. Putting moveset potential aside of course, as basically all candidates have it.

I mean, maybe fan pull is what brings them under review in the first place (and thus is obviously crucial), but as one has virtually no presence and little recognition outside the Smash diehard fanbase, and the other does, factors further than popularity prove influential as well. Even if they're not the dominant driving force, they're probably the clincher.

So while I would ascribe Geno's inclusion to 100% diehard fan demand (which is a tough sell for standalone content given characters with wider appeal) I'd say the rationale behind Banjo's inclusion, though predominantly fan-driven, is more multifaceted.

Well put.
I think one key difference from Geno, in Banjo's favor, is the proven difficulty of working with Square Enix.
Forget being a side character, forget only being used once, forget Lara/Erdrick/Sora...
if working with a company is too difficult, we will have a character from a Sakurai who appreciates Sakurai and Nintendo.
This is just a part of business.

By the way- this thread is growing so rapidly.

 

[maf91186]

Coming up on 31 mid year. If we get the Bear and Bird in Smash I declare we rise up in celebration. "BANJO-BOOMERS UNITE!!"

Our warcry, "OW MY HIP!!"

View attachment 211092

I refuse to ever go by "boomer"
I was born in '86, not '46.
That expression is dumb and whoever was the first to start using it in the way all the "cool kids" do is even more-so.
Few things irritate me more than lack of intelligence...

*grumbles in 32-year-old*

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Dude, I have literally been arguing all day I want the DLC to be based on popularity for that exact reason. Might need to reread my comments mate.

You have been arguing that to an extent. But you've also been failing to grasp one of the key arguments here about Geno and Banjo Kazooie and keep defaulting to bringing up other things like Halo and Minecraft like that's a counterpoint to people disagreeing with you when it's an entirely different thing.

Banjo Kazooie has additional things to point to and attribute his inclusion to. He represents the N64 era of Nintendo as one of the main icons of that era. He's very specifically an original Nintendo character that now belongs to Microsoft in a largely unprecedented way. He's also from his own independent franchise that has seen multiple releases and he has guested in other games before. Nintendo gets to represent an otherwise unreachable piece of their history by deciding to include Banjo Kazooie. There's a lot of background to him that can also contribute to his inclusion. Just because Halo or Minecraft is bigger doesn't make any of that go away. And with Nintendo choosing they may be more interested in one of their former IPs than one of Microsoft's more original ones. If Banjo Kazooie are included in the Fighter's Pass, they got in due to multiple things and while, yes fan demand will probably have played a large role in that, it wasn't the only thing they had going for them.

Geno, on the other hand, doesn't have anything to fall back on. He doesn't represent his own franchise. He's one of five different main characters in one game, with no further appearances outside of an unsanctioned Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga cameo and his inclusion in Smash 4 as a Mii costume and Ultimate as a Spirit. He's got such a limited history and he doesn't have any icon status to pull from. He entirely relies upon fan demand and Sakurai bias to get in.

That's all we've been trying to argue. One character has merits beyond the fan recognition that can be directly referenced and one does not. If you're looking to satisfy fan requests, it tends to help when those same characters also have other qualities and properties that would be appealing for you to represent. That could help Banjo Kazooie in the long run. On one hand you have just a fan request, and on the other, you have a fan request with additional history and legacy with your company. To have either of them presumes that you're interested in satisfying fan requests at all, and we have been trying to highlight why Banjo may have a better shot. That's all that people have really been trying to get at in their discussions with you.

And I say all of this, not because I hate Geno or want to reduce him down to anything, he's actually my most wanted on a personal level. But as an admission of the realities of the situations these two characters and the odds they face. Both would be representing fan requests and fulfilling them, but one would be almost exclusively that fulfillment and the other would be fulfillment plus more established legacy and an entirely unique franchise.

I love what both of our communities have done and I'm all for more fan requests getting in, but I don't think it's ever really appropriate to try to equalize all of them when they all have different contexts and different circumstances that impact their potential inclusions when you discuss true speculation.

 

[Organization XIII]

You have been arguing that to an extent. But you've also been failing to grasp one of the key arguments here about Geno and Banjo Kazooie and keep defaulting to bringing up other things like Halo and Minecraft like that's a counterpoint to people disagreeing with you when it's an entirely different thing.

Banjo Kazooie has additional things to point to and attribute his inclusion to. He represents the N64 era of Nintendo as one of the main icons of that era. He's very specifically an original Nintendo character that now belongs to Microsoft in a largely unprecedented way. He's also from his own independent franchise that has seen multiple releases and he has guested in other games before. Nintendo gets to represent an otherwise unreachable piece of their history by deciding to include Banjo Kazooie. There's a lot of background to him that can also contribute to his inclusion. Just because Halo or Minecraft is bigger doesn't make any of that go away. And with Nintendo choosing they may be more interested in one of their former IPs than one of Microsoft's more original ones. If Banjo Kazooie are included in the Fighter's Pass, they got in due to multiple things and while, yes fan demand will probably have played a large role in that, it wasn't the only thing they had going for them.

Geno, on the other hand, doesn't have anything to fall back on. He doesn't represent his own franchise. He's one of five different main characters in one game, with no further appearances outside of an unsanctioned Mario and Luigi Superstar Saga cameo and his inclusion in Smash 4 as a Mii costume and Ultimate as a Spirit. He's got such a limited history and he doesn't have any icon status to pull from. He entirely relies upon fan demand and Sakurai bias to get in.

That's all we've been trying to argue. One character has merits beyond the fan recognition that can be directly referenced and one does not. If you're looking to satisfy fan requests, it tends to help when those same characters also have other qualities and properties that would be appealing for you to represent. That could help Banjo Kazooie in the long run. On one hand you have just a fan request, and on the other, you have a fan request with additional history and legacy with your company. To have either of them presumes that you're interested in satisfying fan requests at all, and we have been trying to highlight why Banjo may have a better shot. That's all that people have really been trying to get at in their discussions with you.

And I say all of this, not because I hate Geno or want to reduce him down to anything, he's actually my most wanted on a personal level. But as an admission of the realities of the situations these two characters and the odds they face. Both would be representing fan requests and fulfilling them, but one would be almost exclusively that fulfillment and the other would be fulfillment plus more established legacy and an entirely unique franchise.

I love what both of our communities have done and I'm all for more fan requests getting in, but I don't think it's ever really appropriate to try to equalize all of them when they all have different contexts and different circumstances that impact their potential inclusions when you discuss true speculation.

You know if what Banjo had besides popularity in any way helped him against the other two I would agree but he doesn't. The only stand out thing about him in comparison is his popularity among the fanbase. If he has to fall back on anything else we won't get Banjo. He may have other merits but they aren't strong enough to the point it is basically just fan demand that will get him in. So yeah I feel entirely justified with the comparison to the Geno situation because it's apt because at the end of the day he's not going to get a spot because he was a big deal somewhat during the N64 days, he's not going to get in because of perfecting the collectathon. It will be fan demand.

 

[Nazyrus]

Huh so we sharing ages. Well I guess I'm 27, turning 28 on July.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Well put.
I think one key difference from Geno, in Banjo's favor, is the proven difficulty of working with Square Enix.
Forget being a side character, forget only being used once, forget Lara/Erdrick/Sora...
if working with a company is too difficult, we will have a character from a Sakurai who appreciates Sakurai and Nintendo.
This is just a part of business.

By the way- this thread is growing so rapidly.

Geno isn't a side character, which is the problem with the comparison. He's one of SMRPG's main characters. Peach is the only one not important to the overall storyline or have a major arc, but she's no less a main character regardless. Everybody else plays a far bigger role. All 5 are main characters. In a sense, he isn't a major character to Mario as a whole. That's true, as it's more of a side game. But he's a main character in that side game. He's no different from Banjo Kazooie in that sense, which is why they are easily comparable. Though I do agree the fact B-K has merits as a majorly notable game and legacy is why the comparison isn't all that great to begin with.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

You know if what Banjo had besides popularity in any way helped him against the other two I would agree but he doesn't. The only stand out thing about him in comparison is his popularity among the fanbase. If he has to fall back on anything else we won't get Banjo. He may have other merits but they aren't strong enough to the point it is basically just fan demand that will get him in. So yeah I feel entirely justified with the comparison to the Geno situation because it's apt because at the end of the day he's not going to get a spot because he was a big deal somewhat during the N64 days, he's not going to get in because of perfecting the collectathon. It will be fan demand.

Stop going back to Chief and Steve, that's not at all what I'm talking about. Nobody has tried to bring them up in conversations with you on this topic.

We're talking about how Banjo's chances could be better than Geno's because he's able to bring more to the table and has more legacy to show and why he may succeed when other fan requests have failed.

Of course he'd get in over Master Chief and Steve primarily because of popularity. That's what wins him that fight, what potentially wins him the fight over other fan requests could be that other stuff. That's what all this conversation has been over, the lines between fan requests. Not to put anyone down or criticize those characters or fan bases, just to acknowledge how their different and have different circumstances. If you as a developer decide to include a fan request, you have to decide which one gets in. That's when the other stuff could aid a character's potential inclusion. Geno could benefit from Sakurai's interest in him while Banjo Kazooie could benefit from having a greater overall legacy and being the face of a franchise.

 

[Organization XIII]

Stop going back to Chief and Steve, that's not at all what I'm talking about. Nobody has tried to bring them up in conversations with you on this topic.

We're talking about how Banjo's chances could be better than Geno's because he's able to bring more to the table and has more legacy to show and why he may succeed when other fan requests have failed.

Of course he'd get in over Master Chief and Steve primarily because of popularity. That's what wins him that fight, what potentially wins him the fight over other fan requests could be that other stuff. That's what all this conversation has been over, the lines between fan requests. Not to put anyone down or criticize those characters or fan bases, just to acknowledge how their different and have different circumstances. If you as a developer decide to include a fan request, you have to decide which one gets in. That's when the other stuff could aid a character's potential inclusion. Geno could benefit from Sakurai's interest in him while Banjo Kazooie could benefit from having a greater overall legacy and being the face of a franchise.

Ok see there's the problem. I'm not arguing Banjo's chances against Geno's if that were the case then what you said would be accurate to what I said. I'm comparing Geno's path to joining Smash to Banjo and in that sense they are in the exact situation. A third party that is a fan darling trying to use popularity to overcome the legacy of the other characters at the parent company. Practically the exact same. In fact, you even agreed with my point in your response. The only differences are Banjos has multiple games to Geno's one and Square not being as supportive of the character joining Smash.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Geno isn't a side character, which is the problem with the comparison. He's one of SMRPG's main characters. Peach is the only one not important to the overall storyline or have a major arc, but she's no less a main character regardless. Everybody else plays a far bigger role. All 5 are main characters. In a sense, he isn't a major character to Mario as a whole. That's true, as it's more of a side game. But he's a main character in that side game. He's no different from Banjo Kazooie in that sense, which is why they are easily comparable. Though I do agree the fact B-K has merits as a majorly notable game and legacy is why the comparison isn't all that great to begin with.

I was specifically not talking about this status- which was the point of my post.
Either way, if the argument is brought to me-
they arent the same. Banjo Kazooie is the solo and eponymous character of a franchise.
Geno was part of an ensemble in one game.

Damn. Baited by a moderator. That happens more than I'd think it should on this forum >.<

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was specifically not talking about this status- which was the point of my post.
Either way, if the argument is brought to me-
they arent the same. Banjo Kazooie is the solo and eponymous character of a franchise.
Geno was part of an ensemble in one game.

Damn. Baited by a moderator. That happens more than I'd think it should on this forum >.<

Of course they aren't the same. That's the point I was making too.

Just that calling him a side character is wrong entirely. He's a main character regardless. His only side role was the cameo in one game at best. Characters can sometimes be any combination of side or main characters. In this case, his main appearance was as a main character overall. People are downplaying how vital he is to his game for some reason. It's kind of pointless to dismiss his important to SMRPG. I won't pretend SMRPG is a severely important game, despite how it is the reason we have Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario(it plays a vital role in their existence). The game alone is a bit obscure for a Mario game too. It doesn't help it didn't get released in the UK till the VC, just like EarthBound.

 

[MonkeyDLenny]

Are we STILL on this Banjo VS Geno topic? It's been like five pages...

 

[pupNapoleon]

Of course they aren't the same. That's the point I was making too.

Just that calling him a side character is wrong entirely. He's a main character regardless. His only side role was the cameo in one game at best. Characters can sometimes be any combination of side or main characters. In this case, his main appearance was as a main character overall. People are downplaying how vital he is to his game for some reason. It's kind of pointless to dismiss his important to SMRPG. I won't pretend SMRPG is a severely important game, despite how it is the reason we have Mario & Luigi and Paper Mario(it plays a vital role in their existence). The game alone is a bit obscure for a Mario game too. It doesn't help it didn't get released in the UK till the VC, just like EarthBound.

I'm not downplaying anything- in fact I wasn't even trying to bring up any of these bonus conversations about Geno at all. That was explicitly the point I made.

But since you brought it up-
I'm not downplaying Geno. Substitute the exact phrase of 'side character' with "Not the Eponymous, Singular Starring Focus of the game."

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not downplaying anything- in fact I wasn't even trying to bring up any of these bonus conversations about Geno at all. That was explicitly the point I made.

But since you brought it up-
I'm not downplaying Geno. Substitute the exact phrase of 'side character' with "Not the Eponymous, Singular Starring Focus of the game."

Which doesn't matter. The role of main character is shared among multiple players. There can be more than one main character. So that's pretty irrelevant anyway. He's a major driving force of the plot as is, which is all that matters when it comes to his importance.

Besides that, you did mention his status incorrectly, hence why I replied. Your variation is still incorrect. He definitely drives the plot, as he's a major reason how we learn about the issues with the Stars themselves. Nobody else knows about it like he does, and that's very important to the plot.

SMRPG isn't a game where it's led by one protagonist alone. It has 5, with only 1 of those without major importance(Peach), while the other 4(Mario, Mallow, Bowser, and Geno) have major roles in why they are in the game.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Which doesn't matter. The role of main character is shared among multiple players. There can be more than one main character. So that's pretty irrelevant anyway. He's a major driving force of the plot as is, which is all that matters when it comes to his importance.

Besides that, you did mention his status incorrectly, hence why I replied. Your variation is still incorrect. He definitely drives the plot, as he's a major reason how we learn about the issues with the Stars themselves. Nobody else knows about it like he does, and that's very important to the plot.

SMRPG isn't a game where it's led by one protagonist alone. It has 5, with only 1 of those without major importance(Peach), while the other 4(Mario, Mallow, Bowser, and Geno) have major roles in why they are in the game.

There is a big difference between being a lead carrying a medium on your own, and sharing the responsibility as an ensemble.
To carry a piece of entertainment solo, the singular lead has to be all that much more compelling, and usually, developed.
True in a book, true in a movie, true in a game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

There is a big difference between being a lead carrying a medium on your own, and sharing the responsibility as an ensemble.
To carry a piece of entertainment solo, the singular lead has to be all that much more compelling, and usually, developed.
True in a book, true in a movie, true in a game.

That's great, but doesn't matter. He's a main character in his game. Always was, always will be.

 

[Organization XIII]

Are we STILL on this Banjo VS Geno topic? It's been like five pages...

No. The problem was it was never a Geno vs Banjo topic in the first place. People just keep trying to turn it into one.

 

[pupNapoleon]

That's great, but doesn't matter. He's a main character in his game. Always was, always will be.

Always will be?
The game could be rereleased. And you don't know what would happen.
He could be replaced entirely with a new, unique character of almost exact origin, but owned by Nintendo.
Or someone else.
Or something else could change.

No. The problem was it was never a Geno vs Banjo topic in the first place. People just keep trying to turn it into one.

Anyway- I would like to point something out:
It is only because of Banjo that I can understand the case for Geno at all. Sure, differences exist, but ultimately Geno made the marioverse alive for an era of people, the same way Banjo helped myself and others see video games as alive.
It was much more eloquently stated in the youtube video, but that was my takeaway. An 'Aha, I can at least see the origin of these Geno guys,' finally. I could understand it cognitively before, but emotionally after.

 

[maf91186]

Just some wonderful holiday art Rare apparently made back in the day. I never saw it before and I figured maybe some of you haven't either so I just had to share

 

[Organization XIII]

Anyway- I would like to point something out:
It is only because of Banjo that I can understand the case for Geno at all. Sure, differences exist, but ultimately Geno made the marioverse alive for an era of people, the same way Banjo helped myself and others see video games as alive.
It was much more eloquently stated in the youtube video, but that was my takeaway. An 'Aha, I can at least see the origin of these Geno guys,' finally. I could understand it cognitively before, but emotionally after.

I wish I had such a selfless view. I am quite indifferent towards Geno but I'd be happy to see him in just because it would help characters like Banjo and Isaac. But one thing it is amazing how one game or two can garner such passion for characters among fans. Shame everyone can't get their characters in Smash when you think like that.

 

[Looma]

I drew Banjo and Kazooie recently, felt like you guys would like it maybe.

View attachment 211020

I've been listening to a lot of Banjo music, it's actually really good. Hope to see them and their songs in Smash!

I dream of ACE covering Spiral Mountain...

Also cute art!

 

[Noipoi]

I dream of ACE covering Spiral Mountain...

Also cute art!

Why thank you!

And i personally want a Final battle cover, myself.

 

[NintendoKnight]

Always will be?
The game could be rereleased. And you don't know what would happen.
He could be replaced entirely with a new, unique character of almost exact origin, but owned by Nintendo.
Or someone else.
Or something else could change.

I know I wasn't in this conversation when this dialogue happened, but I'm questioning this part of your post. None of what you said here makes any sense. Sorry for the looming wall of text, but I felt that this warranted correction.

First things first, you're assuming that if Nintendo re-releases SMRPG... again, which they've already done twice now (Wii VC + SNES Classic), that they would go out of their way and comb over all the data of a 22 year-old Super Nintendo game, remove any and all references to Geno (which is a lot of pointless effort on their part), add in a completely new, original character as a replacement, and then sell that product with the expectation that fans will just be okay with his absence and accept all the changes that come with it? It wouldn't even be the original game anymore by definition. Or are you referring to a remake? A modern-day retelling of the events of the game where Geno is replaced by an original Nintendo character? Again, that would bring some backlash, but more than that it technically wouldn't be a true remake, now would it? Even if they made a sequel to SMRPG (which technically Paper Mario is) and it had Geno absent as a character (which Paper Mario does) what does that mean for Geno? Absolutely nothing. Let me explain what I'm getting at here.

Out of those three scenarios (edited re-release, remake, or sequel), which of them erases Geno's role as a main character in Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System? The answer is... none of the above. That's not how anything works. A main character of a story remains a main character of a story regardless of retelling, remaking, rebooting, or being written out of the storyline of a sequel. The original is still viable and the cast does not change magically or retroactively in anyway.

Sure, you could absolutely make a game that has one of the character's state outright that Geno is not a character in the story... but it still wouldn't erase Geno from his role in the game he was in. That new game with the "Geno is not here" remark would merely be a game that pretends that the original game didn't exist: we call that a reboot. Jurassic World did this, the newest Halloween did this, but do those movies suddenly make Ian Malcom disappear as the main character from The Lost World: Jurassic Park? Or do they make Jamie Lloyd disappear as a main character in Halloween 4: The Return of Michael Meyers? No. Maybe those characters disappear for the newly retconned timelines, but those new films don't magically scrub away the character that appeared in the older films.

Let me prove this with an easy example. In The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, Ganondorf and Zelda are two of the three main characters; this is undisputable. This does not change. It cannot be changed. The game has a direct sequel: Majora's Mask. In the sequel, Zelda has a brief cameo, and Ganondorf is never even mentioned. Now, does that suddenly undo their roles as main characters in the previous game? No, it does not. Therefore, they will always be main characters in Ocarina of Time. Period. Nothing can change that and nothing ever will. Sequels that lack characters from previous installments (which are common) don't suddenly make those absent characters not main characters of the previous storyline. Reboots or remakes that remove characters don't suddenly make those characters not main characters of the original storyline.

This applies to Geno, too. In his starring role, he was one of the main characters. This does not change. It cannot change nor will it ever change. It's just a fact of the universe. So, as was said before:

He's a main character in his game. Always was, always will be.

 

[ProjectDream]

If I wanted arguments this circular and subjective and completely unsubstantiated I'd go to /v/.

What if I told you that every single point raised is completely pointless, these arguments all lack merit and it all just comes down to what'll make money, what Sakurai wants, and what both parties want in this deal.

If you wanna continue believing in a Microsoft boogeyman who won't make any business deals with Nintendo still, go ahead. But don't believe Square's some softball who'll throw whatever the fans/Sakurai want in. Their next rep if one is in it will be in the interest of marketing themselves.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

If I wanted arguments this circular and subjective and completely unsubstantiated I'd go to /v/.

What if I told you that every single point raised is completely pointless, these arguments all lack merit and it all just comes down to what'll make money, what Sakurai wants, and what both parties want in this deal.

If you wanna continue believing in a Microsoft boogeyman who won't make any business deals with Nintendo still, go ahead. But don't believe Square's some softball who'll throw whatever the fans/Sakurai want in. Their next rep if one is in it will be in the interest of marketing themselves.

Sakurai picks the characters, and literally all of our evidence with Square shows a decent amount of willingness to work with Nintendo. They let Sakurai walk away with Cloud no problem, and they’ve technically also let him walk away with Super Mario RPG content for Smash twice. I don’t think they’d have the slightest issue giving him whoever if Sakurai asks for it.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Are we STILL on this Banjo VS Geno topic? It's been like five pages...

Well of course we are. It is a Banjo thread after all, Abe there really isn’t much else to talk about.

And what is an Internet forum for but for sharing merit-less, subjective opinions on nerdy topics?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sakurai picks the characters, and literally all of our evidence with Square shows a decent amount of willingness to work with Nintendo. They let Sakurai walk away with Cloud no problem, and they’ve technically also let him walk away with Super Mario RPG content for Smash twice. I don’t think they’d have the slightest issue giving him whoever if Sakurai asks for it.

Though to be fair, in this case, Nintendo might be literally choosing it. The tweet is kind of weird and has some interpretation to it.

Sakurai's still heavily involved, of course, but might not be the one literally choosing it. Though it's clear his influence is still highly important(as shown by Joker, as his heavy love for the game might be the only reason the character got chosen. I mean, stuff like relevance exists too, of course. And we have little reason to believe it's to promote a Switch port either, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, kind of. On one hand, it shows characters are still getting in on their own merits. On the other hand, we aren't getting a cool Switch game. Kind of a conundrum, isn't it?).

 

[CosmicQuark]

Huh so we sharing ages. Well I guess I'm 27, turning 28 on July.

Ayyy 27, turning 28 in July too.

Given the time since the N64 and how those who played N64 as kids are now in the Switch's demographic, with disposable incomes, the time is right for N64 nostalgia.

 

[Dinoman96]

So...it looks like they started working on the Fighter Pass characters way before November when they claimed it was finalized.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ride-is-still-on.91979/page-342#post-20064335

One thing I do want to throw into the mix is that these files are from a much earlier point in time. Whatever was happening here with Jane's files, it was at a earlier stage in development of Joker/Jane. The files that have the Jane/Joker/Brave mentions in them are from 1.0.0, the day 1 launch version of the game. This means that these files were being worked on at a point well before the actual release date of Ultimate, back when the game had gone gold. For reference, Spider-Man for PS4 went gold towards the end of June, and it took until September for the game to actually release. Using that to give us an estimate, that'd mean that these files were being worked on back in September of 2018, three months before Ultimate came out. This leads me to believe a few things:

Development of DLC was planned earlier and was underway much earlier than most of us thought. If what vaanrose said about .mchp files is true, then they were testing the hair physics on "Jane" right as they were finalizing the launch version of the game. That contradicts a lot of what we've been told by Sakurai about how DLC planning has been done. Supposedly DLC was finalized in November of that year, but looking at these files, we can see that they were already well into development on two if not three of the characters a whole two months earlier. Far enough to have a version of Joker/Jane's seventh costume already modeled and ready to test.

 

[TheAnvil]

So...it looks like they started working on the Fighter Pass characters way before November when they claimed it was finalized.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ride-is-still-on.91979/page-342#post-20064335

I think it was fairly obvious that at least some of the fighters were planned since before November. November is just likely when they finalised the very last character in the pass.

Unless that was just a lie for optics like Bayo "winning" the ballot.

 

[Deleted member]

So...it looks like they started working on the Fighter Pass characters way before November when they claimed it was finalized.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ride-is-still-on.91979/page-342#post-20064335

September was the exact same month hitagi said Steve was in is that bad? Then I remembered no steve in a testbuild.

 

[Loliko YnT]

Sharing our age ? Well I'm 17 , soon going to turn 18.

Started playing video games when I was 5 , on my Gamecube and Gameboy , haha. Stuff like Mario Party 4 , Rayman 3 , Pokemon Yellow.
However , I didn't got an N64 until a few years earlier (around 2014 iirc) , and I clearly remember picking one up for the exclusives that weren't on the eshop : Like Banjo-Kazooie , Conkers Bad Fur Day , Mischief Makers , Smash 64 , and so on.

I sadly never got any of them , and I'm stuck with Mario 64 , Kirby 64 and Glover (Good games tho)
So , even if they don't get in or/and Rare replay don't come to Switch , I could still try to get a N64 cartridge of Banjo-Kazooie.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Huh so we sharing ages. Well I guess I'm 27, turning 28 on July.

The same month as me, congratulations!

Though to be fair, in this case, Nintendo might be literally choosing it. The tweet is kind of weird and has some interpretation to it.

Sakurai's still heavily involved, of course, but might not be the one literally choosing it. Though it's clear his influence is still highly important(as shown by Joker, as his heavy love for the game might be the only reason the character got chosen. I mean, stuff like relevance exists too, of course. And we have little reason to believe it's to promote a Switch port either, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, kind of. On one hand, it shows characters are still getting in on their own merits. On the other hand, we aren't getting a cool Switch game. Kind of a conundrum, isn't it?).

I'm more concerned about whether he had to turn down any specific suggestions or accepted the first five names or so Nintendo brought up.

In any case, as long as a character had some sort of Nintendo appearance, it makes choosing easier to do.

 

[TheAnvil]

Now forgive this, as it's a pretty massive reach, but it's just me mostly thinking out loud.

-As I recall Joker was ACTUALLY built off of Piranha Plant so it would seem like Jane is possibly our next character being built on top of Joker.

-All we really know about Jane is that she has a ponytail, and is like from a 3rd Party IP.

-In terms of female 3rd Party characters, it seems to reason that Jill (perhaps in her BSAA or RE5 Black Widow costume) could very easily be that character. She also has a gun that would work somewhat similar to Joker's.

-IndieGamerChick said that Jill had been considered for Smash and cancelled due to "political issues". Which could be political issues pertaining to her gun use on the base game (which seems to not be an issue for DLC as we have Joker).

-We have 3rd Party Mii Costumes missing from SEGA, Capcom, Square and Namco. SEGA's Sonic Mii costumes came back with Joker, and we're heavily rumoured to be getting a Square character of some kind, indicating Chocobo and Geno could easily return with the release of that character (as sales are much easier to divide on 3rd Party content when it's sold separately from the base game). Meaning that a Namco and Capcom character could also easily come along too.

-IGC ALSO heavily insinuated that Banjo would be coming to Smash. And if these characters had been decided on since prior to November, then it stands to reason that it came from the E3 sitdown Nintendo and Microsoft had.

A Fighters pass of Erdrick, Jill Valentine, Heihachi and Banjo-Kazooie seems fairly realistic.

Take that with a heaping bowl of salt but just throwing it out there as a scenario.

 

[Justin Little]

If Jill is indeed Jane then why find it in Joker's file and not Zero Suit Samus'? While her BSAA costume is alright, I think if she was in they would use her classic S.T.A.R.S costume and maybe her Resident Evil 3 costume. Also, does ZSS have Ponytail in her files too?

Spoiler

This is totally not a "Please be Dixie Kong" post. Honest...

 

[TheAnvil]

If Jill is indeed Jane then why find it in Joker's file and not Zero Suit Samus'? While her BSAA costume is alright, I think if she was in they would use her classic S.T.A.R.S costume and maybe her Resident Evil 3 costume. Also, does ZSS have Ponytail in her files too?

Spoiler

This is totally not a "Please be Dixie Kong" post. Honest...

I want Dixie Kong desperately but considering the DLC spirit board could hardly include any DK spirit battles (and Sakurai confirmed each DLC character would come with a new board) and the fact this DLC is almost certainly all these characters will be from new IPs I'd say her chances are around 1% right now.

Joker had Piranha Plant files in his character, so it seems like they'd be building each DLC fighter off of the previous one.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Yeah, I’m starting to think Jill based around her MvC moveset is coming to Smash, and honestly, I’d be pretty excited

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, I’m starting to think Jill based around her MvC moveset is coming to Smash, and honestly, I’d be pretty excited

Same to me as well

 

[Nartic]

IndieGamerChick said that Jill had been considered for Smash and cancelled due to "political issues". Which could be political issues pertaining to her gun use on the base game (which seems to not be an issue for DLC as we have Joker).

Actually, Joker's gun is a modelgun. I'm not sure if this affects regulation, of course.

 

[Dinoman96]

Here's vaanroose's response to wildvine's Jane/Jill theory.

https://smashboards.com/threads/ult...vision-edition.467706/page-4653#post-23252638

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Actually, Joker's gun is a modelgun. I'm not sure if this affects regulation, of course.

If it looks like a realistic gun, content raters won't tell the difference without knowing the context. They'll go "wow, this series uses guns now?...Eh, E10+".