Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[N3ON]

That is true but it doesn't matter all that much. I'm not comparing which of the two deserves to be in Smash more. I'm talking about how they are in an extremely similar position which is they are relying 100% on fan pull to be given a place on the roster despite the abundance of much bigger names of the host company. And that Banjo fans giving examples of why a character like Geno's popularity shouldn't matter isn't good for us.

Yeah, dismissing Geno's popularity is also dismissing a key merit of Banjo's. And I believe each would rely on fan demand to overcome bigger names from their respective companies. However, I believe Banjo has additional merits past his popularity that Geno lacks, which would be decisive in his inclusion. Not to say the popularity wouldn't do the heavy lifting, or prompt initial consideration, I just don't believe that Banjo's inclusion would be 100% owing to active fan pull, where I do believe Geno's would be. Putting moveset potential aside of course, as basically all candidates have it.

I mean, maybe fan pull is what brings them under review in the first place (and thus is obviously crucial), but as one has virtually no presence and little recognition outside the Smash diehard fanbase, and the other does, factors further than popularity prove influential as well. Even if they're not the dominant driving force, they're probably the clincher.

So while I would ascribe Geno's inclusion to 100% diehard fan demand (which is a tough sell for standalone content given characters with wider appeal) I'd say the rationale behind Banjo's inclusion, though predominantly fan-driven, is more multifaceted.

 

[Organization XIII]

Yeah, dismissing Geno's popularity is also dismissing a key merit of Banjo's. And I believe each would rely on fan demand to overcome bigger names from their respective companies. However, I believe Banjo has additional merits past his popularity that Geno lacks, which would be decisive in his inclusion. Not to say the popularity wouldn't do the heavy lifting, or prompt initial consideration, I just don't believe that Banjo's inclusion would be 100% owing to active fan pull, where I do believe Geno's would be. Putting moveset potential aside of course, as basically all candidates have it.

I mean, maybe fan pull is what brings them under review in the first place (and thus is obviously crucial), but as one has virtually no presence and little recognition outside the Smash diehard fanbase, and the other does, factors further than popularity prove influential as well. Even if they're not the dominant driving force, they're probably the clincher.

So while I would ascribe Geno's inclusion to 100% diehard fan demand (which is a tough sell for standalone content given characters with wider appeal) I'd say the rationale behind Banjo's inclusion, though predominantly fan-driven, is more multifaceted.

I can't agree with that because really Banjo hasn't done something big enough that he's notable in comparison to Halo or Minecraft. Maybe if Banjo had come before Mario 64 instead of perfecting what it did I could see Banjo having an actual leg to stand on. Or if Sakurai didn't add characters with little to no Nintendo history so that mattered at all. Really in comparison to his two other Microsoft characters, his only merit is popularity.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

If Banjo wasnt a gaming icon he wouldn't be talked about now and this board certainly wouldn't exist...

Personally in my opinion... the fact that Banjo is still so beloved and thought about and has stayed relevant to the fans of his games after all this time despite his recent absence speaks volumes of his iconic status. Think about how many characters have come out in the past 20 year's since Banjo's creation and yet Banjo endures. He hasn't been drowned out and forgotten.... there are characters that have been made more recently that have faded out almost completely but Banjo is still going.

When the discussion of whether or not Banjo is a "gaming icon" comes up, it seems that age is a factor of opinion. . I'm 31 I grew up with Banjo I remember very well when he was everywhere, I still have my merchandise from the 90s.. he was just as big as Crash, Spyro, Mario, Pikachu and DK. Crash and Spyro were practically gone up until the HD remakes put them back in the spotlight, they're icons of gaming too. Banjo is no different.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Being a Banjo supporter is the most exhausting thing ever. I can’t wait for him to get in so we can stop having these same stupid arguments over and over and over again

 

[BZocky]

If Banjo wasnt a gaming icon he wouldn't be talked about now and this board certainly wouldn't exist...

Personally in my opinion... the fact that Banjo is still so beloved and thought about and has stayed relevant to the fans of his games after all this time despite his recent absence speaks volumes of his iconic status. Think about how many characters have come out in the past 20 year's since Banjo's creation and yet Banjo endures. He hasn't been drowned out and forgotten.... there are characters that have been made more recently that have faded out almost completely but Banjo is still going.

When the discussion of whether or not Banjo is a "gaming icon" comes up, it seems that age is a factor of opinion. . I'm 31 I grew up with Banjo I remember very well when he was everywhere, I still have my merchandise from the 90s.. he was just as big as Crash, Spyro, Mario, Pikachu and DK. Crash and Spyro were practically gone up until the HD remakes put them back in the spotlight, they're icons of gaming too. Banjo is no different.

the campaign for Yooka-Laylee should be able to speak for Banjo's longevity in volumes, if I recall correctly it was one of the most successful kickstarters at that time. Fans raised millions just to get a spiritual successor

 

[Mr. Stagg]

If Banjo wasnt a gaming icon he wouldn't be talked about now and this board certainly wouldn't exist...

Personally in my opinion... the fact that Banjo is still so beloved and thought about and has stayed relevant to the fans of his games after all this time despite his recent absence speaks volumes of his iconic status. Think about how many characters have come out in the past 20 year's since Banjo's creation and yet Banjo endures. He hasn't been drowned out and forgotten.... there are characters that have been made more recently that have faded out almost completely but Banjo is still going.

When the discussion of whether or not Banjo is a "gaming icon" comes up, it seems that age is a factor of opinion. . I'm 31 I grew up with Banjo I remember very well when he was everywhere, I still have my merchandise from the 90s.. he was just as big as Crash, Spyro, Mario, Pikachu and DK. Crash and Spyro were practically gone up until the HD remakes put them back in the spotlight, they're icons of gaming too. Banjo is no different.

*Tips Monster Energy* Nice to have another ancient person here on this board.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Being a Banjo supporter is the most exhausting thing ever. I can’t wait for him to get in so we can stop having these same stupid arguments over and over and over again

Same here, I might take a break here sometime later this week and will probably return when E3 is around the corner or if something big breaks that's Banjo-Kazooie or Rare related.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

*Tips Monster Energy* Nice to have another ancient person here on this board.
View attachment 211076

Here! here! Too being old and loving video games!!

 

[Ovaltine]

*Tips Monster Energy* Nice to have another ancient person here on this board.
View attachment 211076

I'm 27, so trust me, you aren't the only fogey hanging around with appreciation for the bear and bird. Cheers!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

*Tips Monster Energy* Nice to have another ancient person here on this board.
View attachment 211076

Early thirties, so I've been around longer than you think.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

I'm 27, so trust me, you aren't the only fogey hanging around with appreciation for the bear and bird. Cheers!

29 year old over here

 

[TheZoologist]

29 year old over here

Hey-o! 29-year old over here as well! Represent!

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

26 years old over here, First console was the N64 back in 1998 when I was 5 and have been gaming ever since.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Early thirties, so I've been around longer than you think.

Coming up on 31 mid year. If we get the Bear and Bird in Smash I declare we rise up in celebration. "BANJO-BOOMERS UNITE!!"

Our warcry, "OW MY HIP!!"

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Coming up on 31 mid year. If we get the Bear and Bird in Smash I declare we rise up in celebration. "BANJO-BOOMERS UNITE!!"

Our warcry, "OW MY HIP!!"

View attachment 211092

Lucky for me I'm pretty fit.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

That's the beauty of this thread a lot of the old guard knocking about glad to be amongst you

 

[Lycan Rex]

24. First console was an n-64 (still have it, still works) first games were Mario kart 64 and dk 64. My cousin introduced me to both smash and banjo tooie. Love at first sight. Been a fan of both ever since.

I still remember my "Super Smash Bros. 2 wishlist" I made when I was a kid. This was back when I thought every sequel was supposed to have a "2" in front of it. They were:

Bowser
Charizard
Mewtwo
Ridley
Banjo-Kazooie

Almost all of them are here. Please fulfill my childhood dreams sakurai

 

[dlewis53]

Wow, so I'm not the only one here who's in their late-twenties? Small world.

 

[N3ON]

I can't agree with that because really Banjo hasn't done something big enough that he's notable in comparison to Halo or Minecraft. Maybe if Banjo had come before Mario 64 instead of perfecting what it did I could see Banjo having an actual leg to stand on. Or if Sakurai didn't add characters with little to no Nintendo history so that mattered at all. Really in comparison to his two other Microsoft characters, his only merit is popularity.

That's a merit in which he outclasses the other two, but, unlike Geno, that's not his only merit in general.

Your argument revolves around them paring down a character to their strongest merit, and deciding solely on that. You've conflated people saying Banjo is aided by having a legacy on N64 with Banjo will be chosen because of his past standing on N64. Even though their argument was that past the popularity, Banjo can fall back on that standing, which means it wouldn't be the main driving factor, and was used in comparison with the lack of anything Geno can fall back on. Characters can, and usually do, get chosen with regard to all they bring to the table.

Just because popularity is Banjo's strongest point, it doesn't mean his other merits are eliminated. Same with any character. Merits are cumulative, some pull more weight than others, but they all contribute in the character's favour. Secondary, even tertiary factors are relevant, because none operate in exclusion. You probably wouldn't hire someone based on a single facet on their resume, it's the whole picture.

 

[Organization XIII]

That's a merit in which he outclasses the other two, but, unlike Geno, that's not his only merit in general.

Your argument revolves around them paring down a character to their strongest merit, and deciding solely on that. You've conflated people saying Banjo is aided by having a legacy on N64 with Banjo will be chosen because of his past standing on N64. Even though their argument was that past the popularity, Banjo can fall back on that standing, which means it wouldn't be the main driving factor, and was used in comparison with the lack of anything Geno can fall back on. Characters can, and usually do, get chosen with regard to all they bring to the table.

Just because popularity is Banjo's strongest point, it doesn't mean his other merits are eliminated. Same with any character. Merits are cumulative, some pull more weight than others, but they all contribute in the character's favour. Secondary, even tertiary factors are relevant, because none operate in exclusion. You probably wouldn't hire someone based on a single facet on their resume, it's the whole picture.

Not quite. It's that what he has on the 64 isn't really special when looking at what Halo has accomplished or what Minecraft has achieved. Like it's neat and put him in a special place in our hearts but it's not going to give him a leg up. It doesn't really help him in comparison to Halo or Minecraft. You can say he can fall back on it and if he was first party still that would be true but his only actual merit over Steve or Chief is popularity.
If we consider your resume example and liken impact to colleges Steve and Halo graduated from Harvard and Banjo graduated from Ohio State or something. Still a good school but nowhere near as notable as a degree from Harvard. Now Banjo may be more skilled at the job but that one line could indeed get them the job over Banjo.

 

[SKX31]

Wow, so I'm not the only one here who's in their late-twenties? Small world.

Well, I'm not surprised as a 28 year old (although feeling at least 5-6 years younger than that*). Childhood memories are one heck of a drug, and sharing the same interests do tend to gather people around the same age group. My first machine was actually a Windows 98**, got the N64 and Gamecube around 2001.

(*Although I could've aged at least 3 weeks by just surviving the entire Star Wars Holiday Special)
(**That's why you see me hyping a lot of characters born on the computer, like StarCraft's Zeratul)

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I drew Banjo and Kazooie recently, felt like you guys would like it maybe.

View attachment 211020

I've been listening to a lot of Banjo music, it's actually really good. Hope to see them and their songs in Smash!

"Western Europe's favorite Bear & Bird team, Banjo & Kazooie" !!!

I'm getting Worker and Parasite cartoon vibes from "The Simpson's" from this picture.

The Simpson's: Worker & Parasite
https://youtu.be/z2_dhUv_CrI

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Not quite. It's that what he has on the 64 isn't really special when looking at what Halo has accomplished or what Minecraft has achieved. Like it's neat and put him in a special place in our hearts but it's not going to give him a leg up. It doesn't really help him in comparison to Halo or Minecraft. You can say he can fall back on it and if he was first party still that would be true but his only actual merit over Steve or Chief is popularity.

Anything can look small when you compare it to something else. That seems to be your whole argument here, “sorry but look how much better these other things are,” “doesn’t matter how important Banjo is because these other things exist.” That’s nothing but a gatekeeping attitude. Is one franchise never allowed to receive recognition as long as there’s something else that’s more successful than it?

 

[Organization XIII]

Anything can look small when you compare it to something else. That seems to be your whole argument here, “sorry but look how much better these other things are,” “doesn’t matter how important Banjo is because these other things exist.” That’s nothing but a gatekeeping attitude. Is one franchise never allowed to receive recognition as long as there’s something else that’s more successful than it?

No, but if you're going to look at the merits of someone you have to be able to compare them to the merits of another. I may be good at kicking a soccer ball in my home town but that doesn't mean I compare to pro players. Banjo may have some history to his name but the two he's directly competing with are far superior in that area. It's not going to help him stand out if that is a strong basis for roster selection.

 

[N3ON]

Not quite. It's that what he has on the 64 isn't really special when looking at what Halo has accomplished or what Minecraft has achieved. Like it's neat and put him in a special place in our hearts but it's not going to give him a leg up. It doesn't really help him in comparison to Halo or Minecraft. You can say he can fall back on it and if he was first party still that would be true but his only actual merit over Steve or Chief is popularity.

Should Banjo get in, and should Geno not get in, I contend the difference will be because one comes with merit owing largely to but extending past diehard demand (such as vaster awareness) to offset the fact that such a specialized strand of popularity targets but a limited crowd, when alternative options cater to a wider markets, which is clearly the intent with the DLC.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

No, but if you're going to look at the merits of someone you have to be able to compare them to the merits of another. I may be good at kicking a soccer ball in my home town but that doesn't mean I compare to pro players. Banjo may have some history to his name but the two he's directly competing with are far superior in that area. It's not going to help him stand out if that is a strong basis for roster selection.

But you have to remember, Nintendo are the ones who chose the characters, not Microsoft. And I’m pretty sure if they went to Microsoft for a character, they wouldn’t just ignore the one who used to belong to them and who fans have been strongly requesting for years. I’m pretty sure that Phil Spencer wouldn’t publicly advocate for Banjo several times just to be like “haha sike I didn’t actually mean what I said.” Halo and Minecraft are undoubtedly Microsoft’s more successful series, but when it comes to Smash Bros, Microsoft are in a very different position because of the elephant in the room that is Banjo

 

[Ovaltine]

But you have to remember, Nintendo are the ones who chose the characters, not Microsoft. And I’m pretty sure if they went to Microsoft for a character, they wouldn’t just ignore the one who used to belong to them and who fans have been strongly requesting for years. I’m pretty sure that Phil Spencer wouldn’t publicly advocate for Banjo several times just to be like “haha sike I didn’t actually mean what I said.” Halo and Minecraft are undoubtedly Microsoft’s more successful series, but when it comes to Smash Bros, Microsoft are in a very different position because of the elephant in the room that is Banjo

That is true. Compare that to Geno, whose company was in rockier straits with Nintendo until somewhat recently, with a clear focus for the more recent and relevant. They're more strictly business-oriented, less the type to reach for humbler, less profitable picks like Geno for the fans. Phil has actually advocated for Banjo and has shown himself to be a fan of Rare, however.

With Nintendo choosing the DLC, too, and knowing especially well how rough Square Enix can be, it's no surprise that they won't go with Geno. When it comes to Microsoft, though, things are quite different. That said, Banjo is infinitely more well-known than Geno, and he has his own merits to stand on through that. Lack of current-day relevancy and fan demand is all the two of them share.

 

[Organization XIII]

But you have to remember, Nintendo are the ones who chose the characters, not Microsoft. And I’m pretty sure if they went to Microsoft for a character, they wouldn’t just ignore the one who used to belong to them and who fans have been strongly requesting for years. I’m pretty sure that Phil Spencer wouldn’t publicly advocate for Banjo several times just to be like “haha sike I didn’t actually mean what I said.” Halo and Minecraft are undoubtedly Microsoft’s more successful series, but when it comes to Smash Bros, Microsoft are in a very different position because of the elephant in the room that is Banjo

Actually given Phil's attitude I would be more confident we would get Banjo if Microsoft was choosing. But also see you dip into my exact argument. I want the character picked off popularity which is what Banjo has over the other two in spades. I want characters picked based on what we ask for. Other factors give the other characters a leg up on Banjo so I don't want them to be a strong consideration for roster selection and neither should any of us who want Banjo.

Should Banjo get in, and should Geno not get in, I contend the difference will be because one comes with merit owing largely to but extending past diehard demand (such as vaster awareness) to offset the fact that such a specialized strand of popularity targets but a limited crowd, when alternative options cater to a wider markets, which is clearly the intent with the DLC.

If Banjo gets in and Geno doesn't I won't care for the reason. I don't have any love for Geno personally. Really he's just an apt comparison for the situation we face for roster space. That's it. Banjo will still be picked because the fans wanted him strongly and not the other two so the DLC having popularity mater will be achieved which is what I want.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Personally, I think it'd be weird if not even one of the DLC characters was based on fan-demand or the Ballot.

 

[Zipzter]

Nevermind guys, I don't need Banjo in Smash anymore. I now have everything I've ever needed in Smash Bros.

 

[Organization XIII]

Personally, I think it'd be weird if not even one of the DLC characters was based on fan-demand or the Ballot.

Me too but at the same time, some of the biggest names during the ballot era were made into ATs and spirits. That doesn't mean they can't be DLC but it does make them seem less likely. And starting off with Joker, a character who wasn't made until after the ballot, it makes me a bit nervous. I am concerned that the ballot was mainly used for spirits ATs and costumes and they mostly went in other directions for the roster and DLC. Still, I am hopeful though.

 

[Lycan Rex]

View attachment 211116Nevermind guys, I don't need Banjo in Smash anymore. I now have everything I've ever needed in Smash Bros.

Yeah yeah, stable connections are cool and all...

But can you taunt online?

 

[SneakyLink]

Yeah yeah, stable connections are cool and all...

But can you taunt online?

Only to discard an ability as Kirby sadly.

 

[Koopaul]

If there’s so much competition standing in Banjo’s way, why has Phil Spencer always advocated for Banjo rather the other two?

It's not about what Phil wants, it's about what Nintendo and Sakurai want. They make the decision of who goes in Smash, they just need to ask permission.

No. I think popularity is the sole reason why K Rool and Ridley are here.

It's true. But how many fighters can you say that about? Most fighters don't get in because of fan demand. There's only a small amount. And some of them end up being Assist Trophies or Spirits or Mii Costumes. Don't get your hopes up just because there's a lot of fan demand.

But the one thing I will give the edge to BK over all other characters you mentioned is that they have origins and strong ties with Nintendo and have more meaning to the Smash and Nintendo fans.

Does that matter? We got guys like Cloud and Joker over tons of legacy characters that have strong ties with Nintendo. Like I said, these big mainstream faces seem to be prioritized over fan favorite legacy characters.

I guess what I am saying is that looking at past DLC characters, Sakurai doesn't put much regard to 3rd party characters that have "strong ties" with Nintendo. Cloud and Joker prove that it doesn't seem to matter much. And the fans only sometimes get who they want.

 

[Lycan Rex]

Only to discard an ability as Kirby sadly.

Well guess it's back to t-bagging and crouching with dedede again. On the plus side Kirby can do what no other fighter can, so hey maybe he ain't low tier after all.

 

[Organization XIII]

It's true. But how many fighters can you say that about? Most fighters don't get in because of fan demand. There's only a small amount. And some of them end up being Assist Trophies or Spirits or Mii Costumes. Don't get your hopes up just because there's a lot of fan demand.

Dude, I have literally been arguing all day I want the DLC to be based on popularity for that exact reason. Might need to reread my comments mate.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The thing about Phil's words is that Microsoft could very well strike a deal with Nintendo instead of waiting for them - and even if they did wait for them, Phil could very well bring up Banjo-Kazooie in the meeting, and Sakurai as well as whoever is there from Nintendo may like the idea of using them. Sakurai may see B-K as having the merits for a DLC fighter, and it seems like Sakurai has some more control over the DLC than what we initially thought, anyway. It's not like Smash 4 had any big-time names aside from Ryu and Cloud.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

My guesses post-Joker

Erdrick
Banjo
Lloyd
Jill

 

[SchAlternate]

Coming up on 31 mid year. If we get the Bear and Bird in Smash I declare we rise up in celebration. "BANJO-BOOMERS UNITE!!"

Our warcry, "OW MY HIP!!"

View attachment 211092

I'm only 21, and I'm pretty sure I already have arthritis on my dominant hand's wrist. Can I be part of the club?

 

[TCT~Phantom]

21, First console was a PS1. Played a good bit of the N64 at the dentists and my cousin's house tho. Did not play Banjo Kazooie until I was 11 or so but man it brought me back to Spyro and Crash nostalgia. Had a ton of fun on Tooie and its multiplayer.

As for my guess on the fighters pass...

Sora
Banjo
Leon S. Kennedy
Sans

Really only want Banjo and Sora tbh. I know a lot of people support Erdrick but I have been growing more skeptical of him/her with how leak culture implied we would get news on them by now.