Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[Cap'n Jack]

No one really cared about Chrom because he was just an echo fighter of Roy without the sweetspot at the hilt and with Ike's up B. He was a harmless addition to the game all things considered, considering he took up little dev time.

Exactly

 

[Dinoman96]

In all honesty, isn't EarthBound considered niche as well? I'm not against Shantae, but from what I know EarthBound is more well-known with better sales and it's still not really well-known at all, generally, when compared to other franchises, outside of everyone who's played Smash Bros. and only knows EarthBound from it. I guess this could lean more in Shantae's favor...but it really just depends on how you look at it.

You're comparing a first party Nintendo franchise to be a third party indie franchise.

The standards for including third party characters are, more often than not, much higher than ordinary Nintendo ones.

 

[N3ON]

No one really cared about Chrom because he was just an echo fighter of Roy without the sweetspot at the hilt and with Ike's up B. He was a harmless addition to the game all things considered, considering he took up little dev time.

Yeah that's part of it. But of all the ways to reveal more FE characters they went for the best, sandwich them in the middle of four other reveals, one of whom is an all-time favourite.

And also because the quickness at which people fell for the echo branding was sickening.

 

[TheZoologist]

To be honest, I did roll my eyes hard when Chrom showed up. Was like, “Really, Sakurai? You couldn’t go one game without putting in yet another Fire Emblem character?” But afterwards, especially with Simon and King K. Rool being revealed and him just being an echo definitely made up for it. Heck, even Dark Samus was a neat reveal.

 

[TheCJBrine]

You're comparing a first party Nintendo franchise to be a third party indie franchise.

The standards for including third party characters are, more often than not, much higher than ordinary Nintendo ones.

yeah, that's fair, I've actually seen this point regarding third-parties brought up before and I completely forgot it.

tbh just trying to be fair to Shantae fans, I don't think she's gonna get in. Like most other characters I don't specifically want or like, I'm just "meh" whether she gets in or not.

 

[Justin Little]

The Shantae games are good, but I can't see her getting in before Shovel Knight.

I like Shantae, but if we're getting a pony tail whipping girl it better be Dixie Kong. Shantae's best game is Pirate's Curse, and she isn't even a genie in that one.

 

[N3ON]

I don't know how tenable the "Sakurai is a wildcard" line of logic is regarding third-parties. Sure he picks unexpected ones, but not for a lack of them being relatively big players, because the effort of including them often necessitates drawing from the top of the pile. When you've the leeway to choose dozens upon dozens of Nintendo characters, and you've already included so many headliners, there will be a greater freedom to get weird with it.

Think about it, when the volume of Nintendo characters was as limited as the third-party count is now, Sakurai was sticking pretty much to the big names or the additions that cutting corners could allow.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

To be honest, I did roll my eyes hard when Chrom showed up. Was like, “Really, Sakurai? You couldn’t go one game without putting in yet another Fire Emblem character?” But afterwards, especially with Simon and King K. Rool being revealed and him just being an echo definitely made up for it. Heck, even Dark Samus was a neat reveal.

To be fair, the fans were pissed with how he got left out of 4 in jest.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

yeah, that's fair, I've actually seen this point regarding third-parties brought up before and I completely forgot it.

tbh just trying to be fair to Shantae fans, I don't think she's gonna get in. Like most other characters I don't specifically want or like, I'm just "meh" whether she gets in or not.

As far as I'm concerned, all Western third-parties' chances are exactly the same; idle until further notice, as long as the convenience of Japan's location is relied on.

I don't know how tenable the "Sakurai is a wildcard" line of logic is regarding third-parties. Sure he picks unexpected ones, but not for a lack of them being relatively big players, because the effort of including them often necessitates drawing from the top of the pile. When you've the leeway to choose dozens upon dozens of Nintendo characters, and you've already included so many headliners, there will be a greater freedom to get weird with it.

Think about it, when the volume of Nintendo characters was as limited as the third-party count is now, Sakurai was sticking pretty much to the big names or the additions that cutting corners could allow.

Part of that is that so far he mainly concentrates on the main characters, which has led to people assuming that unique sidekicks and secondaries are never-evers.

At least he knows that he can't stick to Japan forever, he'd run out of main characters from active (or dead) third party series from active companies there sooner or later.

 

[TheCJBrine]

As far as I'm concerned, all Western third-parties' chances are exactly the same; idle until further notice, as long as the convenience of Japan's location is relied on.

That's true in a way, I just see the bigger names as having a better shot, at least for who's the first to join Smash.

 

[Ryanthemememan]

What ever happend with the indiegamerchick thing?

 

[TheCJBrine]

What ever happend with the indiegamerchick thing?

I think she's telling the truth, could be info that PolarPanda's source and PapaGenos's source have heard as well tbh, but her statements regarding how Miyamoto acted towards Rare are questionable.

Of course, their info could be faulty (and PolarPanda's source only heard Banjo from one person), but they're definitely being honest.

 

[Dinoman96]

What ever happend with the indiegamerchick thing?

She deleted her tweets about Nintendo and Microsoft collaborating over Rare for...reasons.

As I said here, she made a bunch of bizarre claims about the internal happenings of Rare, like how Miyamoto apparantly "despised" the Stamper Bros. or how Sea of Thieves apparantly failed to recoup its cost, even though it's been considered a success by Microsoft. So I'm not sure if I'd put much stock in her.

 

[N3ON]

She also said they were planning on adding Jill Valentine but took her out for political reasons.


I don't know what that means.

 

[SneakyLink]

She also said they were planning on adding Jill Valentine but took her out for political reasons.


I don't know what that means.

My theory regarding RE is mostly because they use realistic weaponry... an theory made moot if Joker uses his handgun.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I swore I heard stuff about how Nintendo treated Rare before indiegamerchick said anything about it.

Like I remember for the longest time there were rumors that Nintendo forced Rare to make Dinosaur Planet into a Star Fox game so Rare couldn't have the Dinosaur Planet license when they left. Are we sure she isn't just repeating what people have been thinking for awhile now?

 

[N3ON]

My theory regarding RE is mostly because they use realistic weaponry... an theory made moot if Joker uses his handgun.

You'd think they wouldn't plan to add her without actually considering how she'd work beforehand.

Plus, you could implement her without the select few prohibited weapons, like they did Snake. Unless Capcom is being picky, but given their cooperation so far, that seems unlikely.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I always believed if your a 3rd Party Character then you really have to have earn your way into the roster such as being an icon and playing an big part of Nintendo's history, (Bayonetta and Joker are questionable picks, But Bayonetta is almost a 2nd Party Character I guess), But this is Sakurai's game not mine so he calls the shots and at least their bigger than your average indie.

Super Smash Bros is essentially the "Big League's" or "Hall of Fame" when it comes to video games and crossover, I mean look at some of the 3rd Party's impacts and legacy:

Pac-Man: Namcos Mascot, Likely the 1st thing that pops up in your head when you think of the 1980's and help defined that era and the arcade, Along side Mario is the most recognizable video game character in history.

Sonic: Sega's Mascot, The "Blue Blur" brought attitude and speed as he was created as "Mario's Main Rival" when Nintendo and Sega were going at each other's throats during their iconic "Console Wars" of the 1990's.

Ryu: Only 2nd to Mega Man as the face of Capcom and is the most popular and iconic fighting game character in the world, Street Fighter 2 is what really put fighting games in arcades and on the map.

That's "Elite" company right there, Plus there's bigger fish to fry like Banjo-Kazooie, Crash Bandicoot, Rayman and Heihachi.

Part of me also kind of gets annoyed when every once in a while when there is some new hot indie game/flavor of the month game and then the developers and fans think that's enough to warrant them an invitation to the ultimate crossover and biggest stage of them all that is Super Smash Bros.

 

[Ryanthemememan]

I think she's telling the truth, could be info that PolarPanda's source and PapaGenos's source have heard as well tbh, but her statements regarding how Miyamoto acted towards Rare are questionable.

Of course, their info could be faulty (and PolarPanda's source only heard Banjo from one person), but they're definitely being honest.

Ah ok cause i head some Xbox pundit said Banjo was coming to smash as well!

 

[Ovaltine]

The obvious choice would be Papyrus

Obviously, yes. He'll never get in, though, because...

Spoiler: not actually an undertale spoiler

Look at this man. He's too cool to even be in Smash. Everyone would be KO'd just from him entering the stage, all stock lost.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I don't know what happened internally between Rare and Nintendo, but after doing a quick Google search, there is info suggesting that, at the very least, Miyamoto actually liked them contrary to the rumor that spread about him.

 

[Lycan Rex]

I don't know what happened internally between Rare and Nintendo, but after doing a quick Google search, there is info suggesting that, at the very least, Miyamoto actually liked them contrary to the rumor that spread about him.

Makes it even more confusing as to why nitendo didn't buy them out

 

[Llort A. Ton]

Makes it even more confusing as to why nitendo didn't buy them out

I think they were gambling on Activision buying them up as planned, so they could still have a chance on keeping their games on Nintendo systems while not funding development, at the cost of those games just being multiplatform instead of nintendo exclusive. But, Microsoft came in and outbid Activision, and the rest is history.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I think they were gambling on Activision buying them up as planned, so they could still have a chance on keeping their games on Nintendo systems while not funding development, at the cost of those games just being multiplatform instead of nintendo exclusive. But, Microsoft came in and outbid Activision, and the rest is history.

I wonder what would have happened if Microsoft dug a little deeper and realized that they wouldn't get Donkey Kong after the buyout.

 

[Lycan Rex]

I think they were gambling on Activision buying them up as planned, so they could still have a chance on keeping their games on Nintendo systems while not funding development, at the cost of those games just being multiplatform instead of nintendo exclusive. But, Microsoft came in and outbid Activision, and the rest is history.

Rare: Nintendo help! Buy us so we can still make games together!

Nintendo: Don't worry, Activision will take good care of you. We can still be friends. What's the worst that can happen?

*Microsoft swoops in and buys rare in it's entirety*

Nintendo:

 

[SchAlternate]

Obviously, yes. He'll never get in, though, because...

Spoiler: not actually an undertale spoiler

Look at this man. He's too cool to even be in Smash. Everyone would be KO'd just from him entering the stage, all stock lost.

Papyrus would cause their stocks to turn blue and fall of the screen, ending the fight instantly.

 

[Organization XIII]

I think they were gambling on Activision buying them up as planned, so they could still have a chance on keeping their games on Nintendo systems while not funding development, at the cost of those games just being multiplatform instead of nintendo exclusive. But, Microsoft came in and outbid Activision, and the rest is history.

Actually, I'm pretty sure if Activision bought them that Nintendo would still have a significant enough interest that Rare would still only be able to produce games on Nintendo hardware so it would have all worked out for them but I guess it doesn't matter now.

 

[hinode]

Makes it even more confusing as to why nitendo didn't buy them out

The official answer is that Microsoft jacked the bidding price up to levels Nintendo wasn't willing to match, plus Nintendo was publically frustrated by Rare's slow development during the early Gamecube era. You can see more at this Gamecube retrospective if you scroll down to the Rare section.

Unofficially, I get the impression that in addition to their public displeasure at Rare's Gamecube output rate, they also did not like what they saw of the games under development at time. Of the seven games that they started developing on Gamecube, four would be released on some platform or another: Starfox Adventures, Grabbed by the Ghoulies, Perfect Dark Zero, and Kameo. That lineup is an enormous step down from Rare's SNES-N64 output.

Nintendo probably saw the writing on the wall and sold high on Rare when it became clear the Stamper brothers were looking for a bidding war. The comparison of Nintendo buying Retro for $1 million vs Microsoft spending $375 million just to get Nintendo's 49% share of Rare is pretty lopsided in hindsight.

 

[Dinoman96]

To be honest, I think it's kind of funny when people use Star Fox Adventures as sort of a scrapgoat to why Nintendo decided to let Rare go, when they seemingly had no problem incorporating elements from that game into later installments, namely Krystal becoming apart of the team. So regardless of how people felt about SFA, I don't think there were hard feelings from Nintendo over it.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

To be honest, I think it's kind of funny when people use Star Fox Adventures as sort of a scrapgoat to why Nintendo decided to let Rare go, when they seemingly had no problem incorporating elements from that game into later installments, namely Krystal becoming apart of the team. So regardless of how people felt about SFA, I don't think there were hard feelings from Nintendo over it.

I remember hearing about it before and someone bringing it up ,But some believe that other than sales and brand recognition another reason Nintendo forced Rare the Star Fox license on to Dinosaur Planet is so they can retain the rights to the IP/Franchise and universe so Microsoft couldn't use it against them in anticipation of the buyout.

 

[Lycan Rex]

Is there any word on nintendo's and rare's relationship nowadays?

I wonder what would have happened if Microsoft dug a little deeper and realized that they wouldn't get Donkey Kong after the buyout.

Somewhere in an alternate universe:

"I can't believe they finally added grunty to Smash! It's about time the b-k franchise got some more love. I thought she was irrelevant after the series replaced her with other villians."

"Hey wouldn't it be cool if they added donkey kong?"

"Pfffft as if! He hasn't had a game in over a decade. The last one, Donkey Kong: Bananas n Boats, was just a boat building game that even the fans hated."

"If only Nintendo held on to those dk rights."

 

[Brothanigus]

You think he's prejudiced or something?

Is that why there's other Western content in the game?

If Sakurai wants a Western character, he'll get them; he can have a translator or someone help him talk to the character's devs if he wants to, as he's had a translator before when going to E3. He also considered Banjo-Kazooie during Melee and understood fans seeing them as a natural inclusion. Stop pushing your fan rule as fact.

Of course Sakurai has a prejudice or something towards the west, 5 games and a single assist trophy(instead of Shovel Knight being a playable character, he's shoved into an assist trophy and then Inceneroar and another Marth are added instead) that says a whole-hell of a lot. And name me this western content(stuff currently owned by a western dev) that's not Shovel Knight or those stupid stickers(K.Rool and Dark Samus are currently owned by Nintendo.) And of course he'll get them if they are wanted, but as it's showing, they are not wanted.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Of course Sakurai has a prejudice or something towards the west, 5 games and a single assist trophy(instead of Shovel Knight being a playable character, he's shoved into an assist trophy and then Inceneroar and another Marth are added instead) that says a whole-hell of a lot. And name me this western content(stuff currently owned by a western dev) that's not Shovel Knight or those stupid stickers(K.Rool and Dark Samus are currently owned by Nintendo.) And of course he'll get them if they are wanted, but as it's showing, they are not wanted.

I think you can throw the whole five games argument largely out the window when the first two entirely focused on Nintendo characters. Third party stuff took a while to work up to, and when we did get it, Sakurai was much more selective about who got in overall. I mean, until Smash 4 DLC, we saw an extremely limited lineup of third party characters. It's only then that things really took off and he started to include more third party characters. And he's also explained that involving third parties makes things extremely difficult on him. That's why I'm mostly sure he hasn't really branched out that much in terms of which third parties he has interacted with.

I mean, yeah, he's naturally a little biased because he's intentionally representing the best of Japanese gaming. That's the "story" he knows and can tell the audience through Smash. Nintendo is a Japanese focused company with predominately Japanese focused connections. I'm always a little confused when people don't seem to recognize that fact.

Plus, let's face it, a lot of the major IPs you'd want to use to represent gaming are Japanese in origin. Western third parties really start to become more notable in the Playstation era and later, but prior to that point, it's hard to argue that Japanese developers didn't dominate the gaming scene. Many of the "classic" video game franchises came from Japan, and Sakurai seems to have been slowly working his way through many of them over the past couple iterations of Smash.

With all that in mind, it makes sense why we've seen so limited Western representation. Shovel Knight's in a hard position just like Shantae because I think it's really hard to justify them when you're missing so many other big franchises already and I'm not sure you'd want them as the first "Western third party reps." But I think Sakurai saw some of their popularity thanks to the ballot and threw them a bone for the time being. And I think he's going to take the first steps into playable Western third parties this DLC cycle. He might not, but I'd say it's pretty likely.

 

[Brothanigus]

How I currently feel about the DLC:

1. Joker
2. Banjo or Steve
3. Erdrik or Slime
4. A lower-placing Smash Ballot runner up, but a first party character (Dixie Kong, Bandana Dee, Chibi-Robo, Captain Toad, and Paper Mario specifically come to mind)
5. Pokemon Sword and Shield Promo representative

Three third party characters and two Nintendo IPs

Didn't Sakurai or Miamoto(or someone) say that the DLC characters will be from franchises that have had NO representation in Smash? So we won't get 4-5 that you've guess.

IMO I feel the Geomon games are going to be represented here.

 

[JamesDNaux]

there is info suggesting that, at the very least, Miyamoto actually liked them contrary to the rumor that spread about him.

According to Grant Kirkhope himself, some folks at Rare got pissed drunk once and Miyamoto happened to walk in on him in a... compromising position.

Considering Japan, that probably ended his good relations with them on the spot.

 

[osby]

Didn't Sakurai or Miamoto(or someone) say that the DLC characters will be from franchises that have had NO representation in Smash? So we won't get 4-5 that you've guess.

IMO I feel the Geomon games are going to be represented here.

Reggie said all of them will be new to Smash, which to doesn't necessarily mean they'll be from new franchises. Byleth would be completely new to Smash, for example, even though Fire Emblem is around since Melee.

 

[maf91186]

*edit*
Nevermind. I'm just gonna try to ignore it.

 

[KingMinjo91]

Reggie said all of them will be new to Smash, which to doesn't necessarily mean they'll be from new franchises. Byleth would be completely new to Smash, for example, even though Fire Emblem is around since Melee.

That doesnt really make sense to me. The DLC characters are obviously going to be new to Smash, the "Everyone is Here" theme was announced long before the game came out. So yeah, I understand why most people are taking it as "all dlc characters are from series not represented in smash". Not to mention Reggie saying that these characters would be "unexpected". More Nintendo first party characters (ESPECIALLY fire emblem and Pokemon) would definitely be expected by your average fan.

Having said that, more Nintendo characters as DLC would not surprise me at all.

 

[Lycan Rex]

That doesnt really make sense to me. The DLC characters are obviously going to be new to Smash, the "Everyone is Here" theme was announced long before the game came out. So yeah, I understand why most people are taking it as "all dlc characters are from series not represented in smash". Not to mention Reggie saying that these characters would be "unexpected". More Nintendo first party characters (ESPECIALLY fire emblem and Pokemon) would definitely be expected by your average fan.

Having said that, more Nintendo characters as DLC would not surprise me at all.

Would banjo qualify as "unexpected"?

 

[osby]

That doesnt really make sense to me. The DLC characters are obviously going to be new to Smash, the "Everyone is Here" theme was announced long before the game came out.

That's what I said. A brand new character from say, Sword & Shield, Three Houses or Metroid Prime 4 would also be new to Smash.

So yeah, I understand why most people are taking it as "all dlc characters are from series not represented in smash".

Me too, I just don't think franchises that already in Smash simply can't get any new characters. I don't think it's a big possibility, but the possibility exists. Reggie didn't outright shut it.

Not to mention Reggie saying that these characters would be "unexpected". More Nintendo first party characters (ESPECIALLY fire emblem and Pokemon) would definitely be expected by your average fan.

You can pull the "unexpected" to wherever you like, honestly. I can say Geno would be expected, you can say he would be unexpected, there's no way to say what Nintendo was thinking about them. It's just PR.

Again, it's most likely is a good sign for new third parties, I just don't think it can be used to write off characters easily.

Having said that, more Nintendo characters as DLC would not surprise me at all.

Agreed, even though I'm not particularly expecting it.

Would banjo qualify as "unexpected"?

Yes. He could also qualify as expected because of his popularity in speculation scene. The statement is too subjective to say for sure.

 

[NomadLuminary]

I believe in the bear. Sign me up.