Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[ProjectDream]

(Ryce) insisted that Vergeben knows nothing about DLC and is saying SE/Minecraft was pushed to DLC to cover up for bad intel.

Thats what really throws me off on Vergeben, it has since I've first seen it, and I kept waiting to see when the datamines would finally show this illusive 'minecraft content' and nothing, then it gets pushed back to 'oh maybe it isn't a character, its a boss' and 'Oh its probably DLC'.

Sure I can't dispute the things he's gotten right, the biggest being Simon Belmont.
But the things he's gotten wrong are just as numerous, yet people choose to forget that.

 

[StormC]

Thats what really throws me off on Vergeben, it has since I've first seen it, and I kept waiting to see when the datamines would finally show this illusive 'minecraft content' and nothing, then it gets pushed back to 'oh maybe it isn't a character, its a boss' and 'Oh its probably DLC'.

Sure I can't dispute the things he's gotten right, the biggest being Simon Belmont.
But the things he's gotten wrong are just as numerous, yet people choose to forget that.

Has he actually gotten anything wrong with Smash besides the absence of certain characters and potentially Minecraft?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Oh, to be clear, while I would love Banjo-Kazooie (obviously partaking in this board a lot the last month), I'm not against Steve, even a little. I think he could be neat. I'm just saying it's way too early on with the evidence we've had to assume anything as fact.

I also see no reason why Steve and B-K couldn't both be in. There's no rules at all when it comes to these things.

Yeah, there's no reason to eat gullible soup around here when there's been no tangible evidence whatsoever for the DLC period. The minute anyone is definitely wrong on any Minecraft content, most insiders' reputations will fall apart faster than the production of Paprium.

That said, I could live with that outcome. There ain't no rule that says no more than one character per Western TP can join.

 

[OptimisticStrifer]

Personally I would like just Banjo, more for the fact that I'd like to see a nice mix of third party companies and Namco or Sega could certainly use another rep as well. But that's just my opinion, as long as Geno and Banjo make it in, I'm fine with Steve.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Yeah, there's no reason to eat gullible soup around here when there's been no tangible evidence whatsoever for the DLC period. The minute anyone is definitely wrong on any Minecraft content, most insiders' reputations will fall apart faster than the production of Paprium.

That said, I could live with that outcome. There ain't no rule that says no more than one character per Western TP can join.

Although they’re not western companies, if we can have 3 Capcom reps and 3 Konami reps, it’s silly to sit here and say we can’t have more than one Microsoft rep. It’s literally just another fan-made rule. Especially when we’re talking DLC

 

[okamifire]

Although they’re not western companies, if we can have 3 Capcom reps and 3 Konami reps, it’s silly to sit here and say we can’t have more than one Microsoft rep. It’s literally just another fan-made rule. Especially when we’re talking DLC

Especially when they're so different. It's not the same as saying a 3rd Streetfighter / Capcom rep. While Mojang and Rare are both owned by Microsoft, they're certainly different developers that represent completely different franchises.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Especially when they're so different. It's not the same as saying a 3rd Streetfighter / Capcom rep. While Mojang and Rare are both owned by Microsoft, they're certainly different developers that represent completely different franchises.

True, which if you ask me, is a good enough argument for them both getting in. One is the cool modern character that every kid knows and loves, the other is the cool nostalgic character that every old school Nintendo fan knows and loves

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

Although they’re not western companies, if we can have 3 Capcom reps and 3 Konami reps, it’s silly to sit here and say we can’t have more than one Microsoft rep. It’s literally just another fan-made rule. Especially when we’re talking DLC

That's kind of my issue with Nintendo sometimes, While it is certainly possible that they can get multiple reps from Microsoft, They have more bias with their wheelhouse of the usual Japanese devs (Which I don't blame them, Since it's who they mostly know and are more comfortable), But at the same time when you think about it gaming's biggest icons are mainly all Japanese, So at the same time any other possible characters left that can make it as DLC that are Japanese are probably going to have priority and the advantage over a Western creation. (I mean look at how Nintendo treated Rare's legacy post buyout and how long it took to get King K. Rool in Smash)

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

That's kind of my issue with Nintendo sometimes, While it is certainly possible that they can get multiple reps from Microsoft, They have more bias with their wheelhouse of the usual Japanese devs (Which I don't blame them, Since it's who they mostly know and are more comfortable), But at the same time when you think about it gaming's biggest icons are mainly all Japanese, So at the same time any other possible characters left that can make it as DLC that are Japanese are probably going to have priority and the advantage over a Western creation. (I mean look at how Nintendo treated Rare's legacy post buyout and how long it took to get King K. Rool in Smash)

Yeah it is kinda frustrating how much they tend to put the western audience on the back burner at times. However, we have seen a lot more western representation in Smash Ultimate, with western-created characters having much more of a presence (Shovel Knight and Krystal assist trophies, Shantae sticker, K Rool and Dark Samus being western-created characters, Ridley evidently being more of a western request). It seems like they’re showing us that they’re listening this time around, so hopefully they can top it all off by including Banjo

 

[Deleted member]

You know what guys I’m starting to doubt(X) verge and that there is no mc content here’s why....

•Vergeben says Minecraft would be in at the launch of the game.
•Vergeben hinted that a trailer would drop during Minecon
•Vergeben didn't predict K.Rool and even has gone on record to say 'NO NEW DK REPS'
•Mojang even said Steve's not in
•Vergeben says Minecraft would be a trophy, not an assist, a regular trophy. Trophies are dropped from the game.
•Minecraft would be represented as a creeper in an assist.
•All assists are revealed, no Creeper.
•Vergeben insist it's a boss. An enderdragon boss.
•All bosses revealed, No minecraft.
•Vergeben then goes to say it's music.
•No music.
•Vergeben says he saw the DLC completed and Steve's in.



To put it simply......he lied

We sould all agree what ryce said about verge.

So now.....we have no idea who the dlc is now

 

[TheCJBrine]

You know what guys I’m starting to doubt(X) verge and that there is no mc content here’s why....

•Vergeben says Minecraft would be in at the launch of the game.
•Vergeben hinted that a trailer would drop during Minecon
•Vergeben didn't predict K.Rool and even has gone on record to say 'NO NEW DK REPS'
•Mojang even said Steve's not in
•Vergeben says Minecraft would be a trophy, not an assist, a regular trophy. Trophies are dropped from the game.
•Minecraft would be represented as a creeper in an assist.
•All assists are revealed, no Creeper.
•Vergeben insist it's a boss. An enderdragon boss.
•All bosses revealed, No minecraft.
•Vergeben then goes to say it's music.
•No music.
•Vergeben says he saw the DLC completed and Steve's in.

• He said there would be Minecraft content, but not when it would be in.
• No he didn't, some people assumed it would drop (me included) because it was thought that it'd be a perfect time to show it off (I now realize it was probably dumb to think that).
• He didn't say that, he was told that but wasn't sure so he asked loz18, who turned out to be a troll and leaked his message. He never confirmed it.
• That was a community manager, not Mojang's higherups, and even the community manager's response didn't out-right disconfirm him as it was a typical PR nonanswer.
• He said it would probably be a stage or assist trophy, as that was what he heard from some sources, but he didn't know what exactly, which is why he always said "content."
• yes, not confirmed by anyone though.
• Wasn't specifically stated to be in base-game.
• Yes.
• Nope, but again may not be base-game.
• No...? I don't remember him saying this at all.
• ^
• He never said this, he never claimed to know anything more than an SE character and Minecraft.

Now, with what actually happened, Minecraft is looking less-likely, but a lot of that was misinfo.

 

[okamifire]

•Vergeben says Minecraft would be in at the launch of the game.
•Vergeben hinted that a trailer would drop during Minecon
•Vergeben didn't predict K.Rool and even has gone on record to say 'NO NEW DK REPS'
•Mojang even said Steve's not in
•Vergeben says Minecraft would be a trophy, not an assist, a regular trophy. Trophies are dropped from the game.
•Minecraft would be represented as a creeper in an assist.
•All assists are revealed, no Creeper.
•Vergeben insist it's a boss. An enderdragon boss.
•All bosses revealed, No minecraft.
•Vergeben then goes to say it's music.
•No music.
•Vergeben says he saw the DLC completed and Steve's in.

Vergeben definitely did not say most of those things. He has always stood behind the somewhat unclear "Minecraft content will be in the game", but it was never stated he was sure it would be base or DLC. His recent stance is that he was told that there would be boss representation, but again not stated whether Base or DLC. Also doesn't exclude a possibility of being some sort of stage boss like Dracula / Yellow Giant, should there be a Minecraft stage. He to my knowledge has never ever mentioned music or that he's seen any of the DLC.

Please post sources to this kind of stuff, or stop posting this kind of stuff altogether. Misinformation is worse than no information at all.

 

[Juliusaurus]

Going back to Japan picking mostly Japanese content, we gotta remember that Banjo-Kazooie was very much embraced by Japan, it being a Nintendo property back in the day, it was promoted just as much as any other Nintendo release, not unlike the DK franchise. So that should give B-K some leeway as a western franchise. Also, Minecraft is huge in Japan too, so going to Microsoft for Smash Bros. shouldn't be all that shocking.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Going back to Japan picking mostly Japanese content, we gotta remember that Banjo-Kazooie was very much embraced by Japan, it being a Nintendo property back in the day, it was promoted just as much as any other Nintendo release, not unlike the DK franchise. So that should give B-K some leeway as a western franchise. Also, Minecraft is huge in Japan too, so going to Microsoft for Smash Bros. shouldn't be all that shocking.

There was a poll done fairly recently where it showed Banjo still performing respectably well even over in Japan. He’s definitely not just a character only the western audience wants, as a lot of naysayers seem to suggest

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

No one should doubt Vergeben is the real deal by now. If he heard Minecraft content was going to be in Smash then I believe he legitimately did. However I've been saying that Minecraft could have been a code word used for Banjo for sometime now and I'm sticking to my idea. In fact here's a theory I'm putting forth in all this.. this is heaily playing off of papagenos theory

Nintendo contacted companies for 3rd parties and Microsoft was one of them. They probably asked about Banjo, there may have been some video conferences or something between higher up's here and there discussing the possibility of Banjos inclusion due to fan demand. A handshake deal happen's where MS says yes to Banjo but there's still legal matters, signatures and what not to deal with possibly even the fact that Banjos copyright would need to be renewed.

Sakurai won't do actual work on Banjo until everything is squared away BUT does start the planning process, it could be at this point that the character is referred to as "Minecraft" to throw off potential leakers. Keep in mind here that for the whole 3 years of Smash Ults development we knew nothing about it. So Nintendo did do well with containing leaks.. we didn't know even about all characters returning and what not until E3 hit and people started seeing promo material. Internally Sakurai did well to keep things hush hush so using a code word for a highly requested 3rd party wouldn't shock me.

Anyway so Minecraft could have been the term used amongst Sakurais staff when referring to anything Banjo related. This could be why leakers heard about it.

E3 2018 role's around and Sakurai/Nintendo as well as Phil Spencer/Rare go to lunch with one another to finalize the Banjo usage. This could have been out of convenience since they'd both be in the same place at the same time. I imagine it would have taken Nintendo and MS so long to meet because I'm sure they probably prioritized Banjo last after all the Japanese 3rd parties were on board.

Anyway the deal could have been completed there, which then Sakurai hurries back to Japan and attempts to push Banjo into the base game even moving Pirahana Plant to DLC in an attempt to get him in. After a few months though it could have been obvious to him that Banjo isn't going to be completed by then. This is probably when he decided to move Banjo to DLC and even scrub any Rare stuff out as to not reveal their collaboration. I'd even go as far as to say 5 characters weren't originally going to be DLC and instead we'd have received 4. Banjo could have been tacked on before everything was finalised and of course PP became a "free" DLC character mostly due to him being incomplete from being moved out of priority but since Sakurai wanted him for the base roster and him being so close to completion he decided to make him a bonus.

This brings us to where we are now... obviously I could be 150% wrong and that's fine... I'm not an authority on anything nor do I have any knowledge of the development of Ultimate. Banjo could be none existant for all I know. It's just a theory/speculation on my part.

 

[KingOfNothing]

I find it funny that originally i didn't think much of papagenos' theory but the Rare game information being found in the game does kind of point to Banjo being pushed to dlc. But who knows

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Going back to Japan picking mostly Japanese content, we gotta remember that Banjo-Kazooie was very much embraced by Japan, it being a Nintendo property back in the day, it was promoted just as much as any other Nintendo release, not unlike the DK franchise. So that should give B-K some leeway as a western franchise. Also, Minecraft is huge in Japan too, so going to Microsoft for Smash Bros. shouldn't be all that shocking.

Also, we have to take into consideration that Sakurai himself admitted they're starting to run out of globally popular Japanese franchises to go for next (that aren't fighting games), so this necessitates branching out.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Also, we have to take into consideration that Sakurai himself admitted they're starting to run out of globally popular Japanese franchises to go for next (that aren't fighting games), so this necessitates branching out.

And he also mentioned the demand for Banjo back during Melee, so he’s definitely aware of the character

 

[okamifire]

Nintendo is probably also aware of the duo's 20 year anniversary and that they are still reasonably popular (as far as a franchise without any recent editions can be), so I suspect if they don't make it in, it could very well be for legal reasons.

While the "Minecraft is codename for Banjo" timeline would make sense, it would also completely make sense if "Minecraft is just codename for Minecraft", hah. If it was all just discussion about actual Minecraft, I have to assume at some point Banjo would have been discussed.

I wish Phil Spencer could just clear this up, hah, but if there's any Microsoft content in the game I imagine the NDA is all inclusive to cover most of their franchises.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Nintendo is probably also aware of the duo's 20 year anniversary and that they are still reasonably popular (as far as a franchise without any recent editions can be), so I suspect if they don't make it in, it could very well be for legal reasons.

While the "Minecraft is codename for Banjo" timeline would make sense, it would also completely make sense if "Minecraft is just codename for Minecraft", hah. If it was all just discussion about actual Minecraft, I have to assume at some point Banjo would have been discussed.

I wish Phil Spencer could just clear this up, hah, but if there's any Microsoft content in the game I imagine the NDA is all inclusive to cover most of their franchises.

Yeah. Even if it's for something as small as a set of spirits, NDAs are important to maintain, so the best thing to do in such a situation is to not confirm or deny.

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Nintendo is probably also aware of the duo's 20 year anniversary and that they are still reasonably popular (as far as a franchise without any recent editions can be), so I suspect if they don't make it in, it could very well be for legal reasons.

While the "Minecraft is codename for Banjo" timeline would make sense, it would also completely make sense if "Minecraft is just codename for Minecraft", hah. If it was all just discussion about actual Minecraft, I have to assume at some point Banjo would have been discussed.

I wish Phil Spencer could just clear this up, hah, but if there's any Microsoft content in the game I imagine the NDA is all inclusive to cover most of their franchises.

It’s just interesting how insiders seem to have conflicting info regarding Minecraft in Smash. Vergeben and Hitagi seem totally gung-ho about it, meanwhile Ryce hasn’t heard anything and doubts Vergeben’s claims about it.

It’s also interesting that Rare and Phil Spencer and people like Gregg Mayles haven’t said anything to fans regarding Banjo in Smash for several months now, whereas they were never shy about it before.

 

[UnknownJ25]

No one should doubt Vergeben is the real deal by now. If he heard Minecraft content was going to be in Smash then I believe he legitimately did. However I've been saying that Minecraft could have been a code word used for Banjo for sometime now and I'm sticking to my idea. In fact here's a theory I'm putting forth in all this.. this is heaily playing off of papagenos theory

Nintendo contacted companies for 3rd parties and Microsoft was one of them. They probably asked about Banjo, there may have been some video conferences or something between higher up's here and there discussing the possibility of Banjos inclusion due to fan demand. A handshake deal happen's where MS says yes to Banjo but there's still legal matters, signatures and what not to deal with possibly even the fact that Banjos copyright would need to be renewed.

Sakurai won't do actual work on Banjo until everything is squared away BUT does start the planning process, it could be at this point that the character is referred to as "Minecraft" to throw off potential leakers. Keep in mind here that for the whole 3 years of Smash Ults development we knew nothing about it. So Nintendo did do well with containing leaks.. we didn't know even about all characters returning and what not until E3 hit and people started seeing promo material. Internally Sakurai did well to keep things hush hush so using a code word for a highly requested 3rd party wouldn't shock me.

Anyway so Minecraft could have been the term used amongst Sakurais staff when referring to anything Banjo related. This could be why leakers heard about it.

E3 2018 role's around and Sakurai/Nintendo as well as Phil Spencer/Rare go to lunch with one another to finalize the Banjo usage. This could have been out of convenience since they'd both be in the same place at the same time. I imagine it would have taken Nintendo and MS so long to meet because I'm sure they probably prioritized Banjo last after all the Japanese 3rd parties were on board.

Anyway the deal could have been completed there, which then Sakurai hurries back to Japan and attempts to push Banjo into the base game even moving Pirahana Plant to DLC in an attempt to get him in. After a few months though it could have been obvious to him that Banjo isn't going to be completed by then. This is probably when he decided to move Banjo to DLC and even scrub any Rare stuff out as to not reveal their collaboration. I'd even go as far as to say 5 characters weren't originally going to be DLC and instead we'd have received 4. Banjo could have been tacked on before everything was finalised and of course PP became a "free" DLC character mostly due to him being incomplete from being moved out of priority but since Sakurai wanted him for the base roster and him being so close to completion he decided to make him a bonus.

This brings us to where we are now... obviously I could be 150% wrong and that's fine... I'm not an authority on anything nor do I have any knowledge of the development of Ultimate. Banjo could be none existant for all I know. It's just a theory/speculation on my part.

This seems so plausible, especially Minecraft being a code word

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah. Even if it's for something as small as a set of spirits, NDAs are important to maintain, so the best thing to do in such a situation is to not confirm or deny.

It isn’t rare representation without banjo you know

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It isn’t rare representation without banjo you know

Well, of course. I'm just sayin, don't wanna compromise the deal if the leak's acknowledged.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Here’s a present for all of you while you wait.

 

[Door Key Pig]

Vergeben's leaked list of SE reps means nothing if there is no SE rep as DLC.

A far more credible leaker (Ryce) insisted that Vergeben knows nothing about DLC and is saying SE/Minecraft was pushed to DLC to cover up for bad intel. Why are we even still on this? The DLC was finalised just a couple weeks ago, Verge couldn't have known about a SE or Minecrap rep all the way back to pre-E3 times.

It's far more likely that like literally every single other leak that Vergeben has ever got correct, that he also spread misinformation in the process.

And if you look at the amount of SE content in Smash, it seems highly plausible that Nintendo wouldn't want to deal with them for a DLC character.

Tbf, there are a couple of Mario RPG spirits despite no Final Fantasy ones.

 

[Gemini-Gene]

Tbf, there are a couple of Mario RPG spirits despite no Final Fantasy ones.

There's more SMRPG Spirits besides Geno and Mallow?

 

[Door Key Pig]

There's more SMRPG Spirits besides Geno and Mallow?

No just Geno and Mallow that I know of, but that's still some square rep not even final fantasy got...

 

[dlewis53]

Well, guys, we are officially a week away until Smash Ultimate *officially* drops...who here is hyped as hell?! Because I am!!!

 

[Deleted member]

No one should doubt Vergeben is the real deal by now. If he heard Minecraft content was going to be in Smash then I believe he legitimately did. However I've been saying that Minecraft could have been a code word used for Banjo for sometime now and I'm sticking to my idea. In fact here's a theory I'm putting forth in all this.. this is heaily playing off of papagenos theory

Nintendo contacted companies for 3rd parties and Microsoft was one of them. They probably asked about Banjo, there may have been some video conferences or something between higher up's here and there discussing the possibility of Banjos inclusion due to fan demand. A handshake deal happen's where MS says yes to Banjo but there's still legal matters, signatures and what not to deal with possibly even the fact that Banjos copyright would need to be renewed.

Sakurai won't do actual work on Banjo until everything is squared away BUT does start the planning process, it could be at this point that the character is referred to as "Minecraft" to throw off potential leakers. Keep in mind here that for the whole 3 years of Smash Ults development we knew nothing about it. So Nintendo did do well with containing leaks.. we didn't know even about all characters returning and what not until E3 hit and people started seeing promo material. Internally Sakurai did well to keep things hush hush so using a code word for a highly requested 3rd party wouldn't shock me.

Anyway so Minecraft could have been the term used amongst Sakurais staff when referring to anything Banjo related. This could be why leakers heard about it.

E3 2018 role's around and Sakurai/Nintendo as well as Phil Spencer/Rare go to lunch with one another to finalize the Banjo usage. This could have been out of convenience since they'd both be in the same place at the same time. I imagine it would have taken Nintendo and MS so long to meet because I'm sure they probably prioritized Banjo last after all the Japanese 3rd parties were on board.

Anyway the deal could have been completed there, which then Sakurai hurries back to Japan and attempts to push Banjo into the base game even moving Pirahana Plant to DLC in an attempt to get him in. After a few months though it could have been obvious to him that Banjo isn't going to be completed by then. This is probably when he decided to move Banjo to DLC and even scrub any Rare stuff out as to not reveal their collaboration. I'd even go as far as to say 5 characters weren't originally going to be DLC and instead we'd have received 4. Banjo could have been tacked on before everything was finalised and of course PP became a "free" DLC character mostly due to him being incomplete from being moved out of priority but since Sakurai wanted him for the base roster and him being so close to completion he decided to make him a bonus.

This brings us to where we are now... obviously I could be 150% wrong and that's fine... I'm not an authority on anything nor do I have any knowledge of the development of Ultimate. Banjo could be none existant for all I know. It's just a theory/speculation on my part.

First of all, I do wish people would pronounce "Vergeben" correctly; it's not that hard. Here.

Secondly, if DasVergeben has gotten anything wrong, I am reminded of the Gematsu leak in the Smash 4 days...there's no way that predicting Mega Man, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Pac-Man, etc. was coincidence, and we know that Chrom was actually considered but cut. That really just leaves Chorus Kids and it can be assumed they were cut early in development as well, perhaps for similar reasons as the Ice Climbers. Point being, it was undoubtedly correct but outdated information.

Thirdly, I like your theory about Banjo but I disagree that he would have been planned for the base roster at all. Sakurai even went out of his way to explain that Rex from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 didn't make the cut as a character for the base roster because his game came out after they had already planned everything. And we know this is how Smash games always work: Sakurai makes a project proposal and very very rarely deviates from that--and if he does, it's usually to cut characters, not add them (I can only think of Sonic in Brawl as the exception?).
Just because Sakurai may not have started making the DLC content until the base game is finished, doesn't mean he hasn't known for a while exactly what the DLC will consist of. And honestly, it makes way more sense for a 3rd party character like Banjo to be DLC, where Microsoft could theoretically get a share of the profits. Btw I reaaaaaally want Banjo/Kazooie in the game!! It's my last pipe-dream for Smash.

 

[TheAnvil]

First of all, I do wish people would pronounce "Vergeben" correctly; it's not that hard. Here.

Secondly, if DasVergeben has gotten anything wrong, I am reminded of the Gematsu leak in the Smash 4 days...there's no way that predicting Mega Man, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Pac-Man, etc. was coincidence, and we know that Chrom was actually considered but cut. That really just leaves Chorus Kids and it can be assumed they were cut early in development as well, perhaps for similar reasons as the Ice Climbers. Point being, it was undoubtedly correct but outdated information.

Thirdly, I like your theory about Banjo but I disagree that he would have been planned for the base roster at all. Sakurai even went out of his way to explain that Rex from Xenoblade Chronicles 2 didn't make the cut as a character for the base roster because his game came out after they had already planned everything. And we know this is how Smash games always work: Sakurai makes a project proposal and very very rarely deviates from that--and if he does, it's usually to cut characters, not add them (I can only think of Sonic in Brawl as the exception?).
Just because Sakurai may not have started making the DLC content until the base game is finished, doesn't mean he hasn't known for a while exactly what the DLC will consist of. And honestly, it makes way more sense for a 3rd party character like Banjo to be DLC, where Microsoft could theoretically get a share of the profits. Btw I reaaaaaally want Banjo/Kazooie in the game!! It's my last pipe-dream for Smash.

There's no "if Vergeben has gotten anything wrong". He's been outright wrong about many leaks in the past, and his Smash info isn't 100% accurate. There's no Minecraft or SE newcomer.

He only backtracked later and said they were DLC after the fact. And the SE rep was "DLC" when the box theory took off.

 

[Deleted member]

No one should doubt Vergeben is the real deal by now. If he heard Minecraft content was going to be in Smash then I believe he legitimately did. However I've been saying that Minecraft could have been a code word used for Banjo for sometime now and I'm sticking to my idea. In fact here's a theory I'm putting forth in all this.. this is heaily playing off of papagenos theory

Nintendo contacted companies for 3rd parties and Microsoft was one of them. They probably asked about Banjo, there may have been some video conferences or something between higher up's here and there discussing the possibility of Banjos inclusion due to fan demand. A handshake deal happen's where MS says yes to Banjo but there's still legal matters, signatures and what not to deal with possibly even the fact that Banjos copyright would need to be renewed.

Sakurai won't do actual work on Banjo until everything is squared away BUT does start the planning process, it could be at this point that the character is referred to as "Minecraft" to throw off potential leakers. Keep in mind here that for the whole 3 years of Smash Ults development we knew nothing about it. So Nintendo did do well with containing leaks.. we didn't know even about all characters returning and what not until E3 hit and people started seeing promo material. Internally Sakurai did well to keep things hush hush so using a code word for a highly requested 3rd party wouldn't shock me.

Anyway so Minecraft could have been the term used amongst Sakurais staff when referring to anything Banjo related. This could be why leakers heard about it.

E3 2018 role's around and Sakurai/Nintendo as well as Phil Spencer/Rare go to lunch with one another to finalize the Banjo usage. This could have been out of convenience since they'd both be in the same place at the same time. I imagine it would have taken Nintendo and MS so long to meet because I'm sure they probably prioritized Banjo last after all the Japanese 3rd parties were on board.

Anyway the deal could have been completed there, which then Sakurai hurries back to Japan and attempts to push Banjo into the base game even moving Pirahana Plant to DLC in an attempt to get him in. After a few months though it could have been obvious to him that Banjo isn't going to be completed by then. This is probably when he decided to move Banjo to DLC and even scrub any Rare stuff out as to not reveal their collaboration. I'd even go as far as to say 5 characters weren't originally going to be DLC and instead we'd have received 4. Banjo could have been tacked on before everything was finalised and of course PP became a "free" DLC character mostly due to him being incomplete from being moved out of priority but since Sakurai wanted him for the base roster and him being so close to completion he decided to make him a bonus.

This brings us to where we are now... obviously I could be 150% wrong and that's fine... I'm not an authority on anything nor do I have any knowledge of the development of Ultimate. Banjo could be none existant for all I know. It's just a theory/speculation on my part.

I agree with this

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

There's no "if Vergeben has gotten anything wrong". He's been outright wrong about many leaks in the past, and his Smash info isn't 100% accurate. There's no Minecraft or SE newcomer.

He only backtracked later and said they were DLC after the fact. And the SE rep was "DLC" when the box theory took off.

Yeah. He's gotten some things right (Isabelle (except the echo part), Simon, and Kencineroar), yet people are treating him like he's always been right about everything in regards to this game after the Grinch leak got disproven hard. He's good, but not perfect.

 

[Deleted member]

There's no "if Vergeben has gotten anything wrong". He's been outright wrong about many leaks in the past, and his Smash info isn't 100% accurate. There's no Minecraft or SE newcomer.

He only backtracked later and said they were DLC after the fact. And the SE rep was "DLC" when the box theory took off.

Why put another Se rep When they’re like stingy from lazytown

I don’t believe him. including the mc content


X

 

[papagenos]

papagenos have you inquired to your source about the Rare Spirits?

yes, though nothing new from the microsoft source. Literally just me and my direct source thinking it could be good news for banjo but thats just basically the same speculation everyone is saying in regards to "rare" spirits in the data.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, Vergeben aside, I still think Banjo has a very good chance of appearing as DLC this time. We've got the appearance of Rare spirits, greater emphasis on including (especially Western) fan favorite characters, a good relationship between Microsoft and Nintendo with Phil Spencer having no objections, Sakurai being aware of the character and having considered him in the past...I mean, it's never looked better for the duo I'd say.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Why put another Se rep When they’re like stingy from lazytown

because Geno

Also Vergeben has gotten nothing wrong about Smash other than potentially Minecraft content being included; he didn't confirm the "No new DK characters" thing because he wasn't sure about it, and he has been right on everything else other than Isabelle being an echo (which is understandable if only a few moves were seen).

Technically he did have some early info that was nearly 100% wrong before E3, but he claimed it was bad and gave new info that was correct when E3 hit.

Even without Vergeben, SE content as DLC is likely anyway, because that means they get more money.

 

[Deleted member]

Even without Vergeben, SE content as DLC is likely anyway, because that means they get more money.

•4 spirits(2 primary’2 fighter)
•2 songs
•character still voiced in Japanese
•no spirit battles in world of light
•last character to get in wol
•se music guy in bad condition

Why even bother?


We’re not getting another se rep even if a leaker says it

 

[TheCJBrine]

•4 spirits(2 primary’2 fighter)
•2 songs
•character still voiced in Japanese
•no spirit battles in world of light
•last character to get in wol
•se music guy in bad condition

Why even bother?


We’re not getting another se rep even if a leaker says it

It's not even just Vergeben saying SE DLC.

PolarPanda's source has heard Geno; though now he's not sure, he apparently still thinks SE DLC because he's saying anyone who says anything more than SE is wrong/making up crap; although what PapaGenos has heard is possible imo and his source may be true.

There's probably not much in base-game because SE wanted DLC content. If Nintendo/Sakurai is willing to deal with them, they will. They have enough money and make enough to gain it back.

 

[okamifire]

Square's base content doesn't have anything to do with their potential of adding Square DLC. How much Square stuff was in Smash 4 before Cloud? They can add whatever they want as DLC and they'd likely get a portion of each sale, so it really just benefits them.

I'm not saying that Square will have a second DLC character this time around, but to discredit it because of their involvement in the base game doesn't really seem sound.