Banjo-Kazooie Mafia: Grunty's Back! Game Over! Did Grunty win in the end?

[TheKingofKoopas]

And TheKingofKoopas You need to post.

Reading through the entirety of the thread. Will very soon.

 

[Zaixl]

@BarDulL might wanna say something soon, if you're online

 

[sneakytako]

@Gheb are you still concerned with orbo?

how do you feel about the bardull bandwagon so far?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I don't remember being concerned with Orbo ... I'll wait for Bardull to actually answer stuff. I'll likely end up having my vote on him at the end of the Day if he keeps this up though.

 

[sneakytako]

MOD request votecount

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Well, I'm gonna make a post and then you probably won't see me for another day or so. Homework just ripped me a new one, having two essays and a project due the same day.
I'm sorry guys, I didn't think homework was going to completely blindside me like this.

Bard: I'm fairly certain he's scum. For most of the thread he's been my top pick to lynch, for pretty much all of the reasons provided already. His agreements with Moosy at the beginning of the game really irk me. I wanna get into that more depending on what the situation is going to be like, whether we lynch Bard or not and what they have to say afterwards.

Moosy: Scum lean. He has some good reasoning on his opinions, but his opinions I either just don't agree with or I feel are there to cause more confusion. This and my possible theory of a Bard/Moosy team are what's giving me a scum lean.

Generic: Very slight scum lean. Based on the other game, it seems he's been lurking a lot more. He could be busy with school as he said, or that could be a bluff (although I should not be one to speak.) Just wanted to mention this, don't think it's THAT incriminating.

Gheb: I have a very strong feeling he's town, for meta reasons that I don't think I can explain right now. If people find that weird, I can answer that very soon, just not right now.

Everyone else I find either null or a slight town lean. I want to hear orbo's and rake's opinions, now that a lot of things have happened since they posted.
Please ask me questions and tag me if you wish, I'll just be a little preoccupied but I'll still be able to answer.

If we all clam up like turtles then nothing's going to get done

That's racist.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

His agreements with Moosy at the beginning of the game really irk me.

In what way / what do you make of it?

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

In what way / what do you make of it?

Yay we get to lynch people. 3 people I'm interested in.
1. RadicalRat - Still need answer from him about why he's so focused on me when everyone's votes on Shun Goku were not serious. There's no point in trying to say it's scummy for me to have voted on Goku when no one was being serious.
2. Shun Goku - A: useless "baits" which I'm not even sure were meant to be baits. B: asking useless questions C: unable to tone read me like GenericHandle D: his statement about me being reactionary seems to town read me when there's literally no reason to do so and got me antsy because it looked like pocketing.

3. GenericHandle - It wasn't exactly alignment indicative for him to have misread the tone in my posts but the way he backed out super quickly bothers me. This is more of an itch than a real want to lynch.

I personally didn't have a problem with any of these accusations besides Rake's "baits." I can understand that being scummy, but everything else, nah. Especially when you find the contradiction:

C: unable to tone read me like GenericHandle

It wasn't exactly alignment indicative for him to have misread the tone in my posts

Even then, Bard simply gave a thumbs up. I just felt he would have had more to say, especially since there are problems in the post.

It's a bit of a stretch, but that's why I said I wanted to investigate it rather than saying a scum team is definite.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

mmm...

I personally didn't have a problem with any of these accusations besides Rake's "baits." I can understand that being scummy, but everything else, nah. Especially when you find the contradiction:



Even then, Bard simply gave a thumbs up. I just felt he would have had more to say, especially since there are problems in the post.

It's a bit of a stretch, but that's why I said I wanted to investigate it rather than saying a scum team is definite.

So how exactly does this make me scum then?

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

mmm...

So how exactly does this make me scum then?

I see a possibility that you and Bard are working together, given the fact that you guys seem to agree with each other over things I find surprising.
That and some other small tidbits I'd like to reread again in case I got something wrong.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I see a possibility that you and Bard are working together, given the fact that you guys seem to agree with each other over things I find surprising.
That and some other small tidbits I'd like to reread again in case I got something wrong.

Cool. And of course I'd incriminate myself with him like that. -shrugs-

At best it's him trying to pocket me. At worst it's us being Mafia together. But if you think that the latter option is possible then go back and read the thread.

 

[sneakytako]

So putting aside the fact that Bardull defended moosy, does anyone else have issues with his reasoning behind me being a scum read?

He's pretty much creating a totally arbitrary connection between my concern between him and rake, and then OMGUS me super hard to say that he's going to focus entirely on me. I don't know whether it's his playstyle to only prefer chainsawing people, but I find it strange that he's so focused on me.

 

[sneakytako]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake how do you see Bardul atm?

Do you think that if bardul flipped town, would that reveal anything about gheb, me, or anyone else?

 

[RadicalRat]

So putting aside the fact that Bardull defended moosy, does anyone else have issues with his reasoning behind me being a scum read?

He's pretty much creating a totally arbitrary connection between my concern between him and rake, and then OMGUS me super hard to say that he's going to focus entirely on me. I don't know whether it's his playstyle to only prefer chainsawing people, but I find it strange that he's so focused on me.

I don't like throwing around things like "OMGUS" to refute points. Besides... I honestly don't think his fixation on you is based in an OMGUS. He has a point.

You said Rake was "disconcerting." That means you find something about him to be fishy. Bard agreed, going as far as to throw down a vote and get some pressure going.

Perhaps you didn't mean disconcerting to be scummy, but that's how Bard's chosen to interpret it. His logic on you makes sense. If anyone's OMGUSing, I'd be inclined to say it's you.


I'm not saying he's right. In fact, I'm actually leaning Town on you. You seem to be one of the most straightforward, honest players so far, which says Town to me. But I can still understand how Bard would take that stance toward you, scum or otherwise.

 

[Zaixl]

Letting you guys know WiFi is sketchy at best atm so might not be posting. Not sure how long it's gonna last.

 

[sneakytako]

You guys are getting held up by my vocabulary too much.

'Disconcerting' can mean straight scummy. It can also mean possibly scummy, which is the connotation I was shooting for. By being rude/overtly aggressive Rake can silence a potentially towny to be silent, which is one of the worst things for town when townies stop talking.

I still fail to see how any of this has anything to do with me seeing bardul as suspicious.

 

[sneakytako]

EBWOP: 'Rake can silence a potentially towny to be silent'

hmmm

*Rake can silence a potentially towny player from posting and asking questions.

That probably sounds better lol.

 

[RadicalRat]

I still fail to see how any of this has anything to do with me seeing bardul as suspicious.

Your main issue with Bard is that he has you as a scum read, correct?

He has that opinion because he agreed with your thoughts on rake, and you accused him for making a vote based on similar reasoning to your own.

Something that needs kept in mind is that voting doesn't necessarily mean you think someone is 100% scum. It's just a way to add on pressure. The more votes that accumulate on someone, the more desperate they become, making them more likely to slip up.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

10 points to whoever realizes why the reasoning behind this null read on me is bad.

It's not though cause you other smart people think the same thing. I was ahead of the crowd lol.

Or really bad mafia. Are there any other inexperienced players?

Gheb, I don't like your rush to attack Bardul and get him lynched so quickly. It'd be fine if we were closer to the deadline, but we're not. Let the Day play out -- unless you're afraid of something being revealed with time?

Really didn't see it as a rush attack at all and I would contest your wording to be slightly leading. He simply voted bard and asked other people who thought similarly to vote with him, he never said tie the noose and draw and quarter the man though. I wasnt you to explain in detail why you felt it was a rush lynch and why that would make gheb scummy over being a overexcited townie.

Moosy is wildly swinging at anything that moves. This could be interpreted positively or negatively. Slight town lean, but that could change.

Gheb seems desperate to cut the Day short... Slight scum lean.

Rake is janky. Null.

Bardull... I don't see the scum, but I don't see the town, either. Null.

Zaixl puts out solid town content. Town.

Anyone want to hear my thoughts on another given player?

Okay. You're right. Moosy is null read.

Now that we have plenty of information, thoughts on Gheb everyone?

Again, he was never that desperate, How do you not see the sum , do you not understand Gheb's position or do you simply not find bard's actions to be scummy from your POV ?

Actually, it does.

Annoying to work with, be Gheb Town or Mafia, makes him a hinderance to discussion.

I personally am not irritated by Gheb, but if Zaixl is being pissed off by him, it WILL make discussions where those two are involved more tedious to get through.

Therefore, as long as other people have him as scummy too, and taking into account his willingness to change, I see nothing wrong with Zaixl's vote.

This is a bad post

Shun Goku Satsu Rake how do you see Bardul atm?

Do you think that if bardul flipped town, would that reveal anything about gheb, me, or anyone else?

Being voted alot, I can see Gheb's logic but I don't necessarily agree with it. Bard doesn't need to act the way he did as mafia in that situation and his question to orbo wrt me back when was actually strongly on point which I liked from bardull. I'd need to read Bard again but his wagon seems largely uninteresting to me and I doubt I'll vote him unless Gheb or someone else could give me one solid reason to show me Bardull's scum intent behind his actions.

His push on Sneakytako is perfectly logical, don't know why he's being lambasted for it to be honest, he interpreted sneaky's wording to mean a certain way, and it doesn't sneaky was overtly going out of his way to correct him ? And even if sneaky wasant thinking I was scum that doesn't condemn Bardull because you can vote a town read for pressure

EBWOP: 'Rake can silence a potentially towny to be silent'

hmmm

*Rake can silence a potentially towny player from posting and asking questions.

That probably sounds better lol.

Trust me when I tell you that I don't tunnel that hard, most of my questions stay sidelong for a good reason

Vote: Maven

Would rather put people behind this wagon.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake how do you see Bardul atm?

Do you think that if bardul flipped town, would that reveal anything about gheb, me, or anyone else?

How do you mean if he flipped town ? Are we working under the assumption he's scummy for sopme reason ?

If bardull was scum he wouldnt be scum with Gheb or yourself. Not how bardull plays mafia iirc.

If he flips town I'd be less inclined to look at gheb because he has no reason to start a wagon like this as scum. Like this wagon in terms of how hard gheb's actually working to get bardull dead in nowhere near how lambasted bardull could be getting due to him generally being misunderstood alot and being a bit of a derp / acting in ways people feel are scummy but aren't. This wagon really doesn't feel like its gonna go anywhere to me, once bardull responds short of him claiming scum the push is over. Thats just the way this will crumble because the accusations on bardull aren't what you need to seal a lynch, which is what scum wants, the guarentee. If bardull's town it'll be evident once he gets his head back on and defends himself.

Honestly you should vote maven with me, the laze the slot puts on in scum roles is real and i'd rather strangle him for content than waste braincells figuring out bardull v gheb is likely TvT

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also the longer Orbo spends doing nothing in perticular the more I'm willing to lynch him too

 

[Orboknown]

I'm gonna get this tomorrow, shiesty phone charging situation makes me not wanna use it much.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Rake: Obviously trying to feel out the newbies. First post was aimed at the people who confirmed in thread; aka Moose.
Second post was questions aimed at me but by the time I saw them he was focused on Moose, so I let him forget about them and observed. Seeing as he's feeling out alignments he's either town or trying to act the part. Null.
Bardiculous: Seems to be posting but not quite contributing. Got nothing but gut feeling for him right now, and it's leaning towards Mafia. But based on pure facts, Null.
MooseyDoosey: Impulsive. Hotheaded. Downright stupid at times. But the strongest town read I have. Or a darn good Mafia. Town.
RadicalRat: Fairly good player from what I've seen and unreadable. Null.
Orboknown: Also a very middle of the road Switzerland player. Don't trust him at all. Null.
Generichandle: See RadicalRat.
Gheb_01,Thekingofkoopas,Maven89, SneakyTako: Fairly inactive. Null.
Zaixl: Confirmed Mafia kill him in the face

- is feeling out alignments that much of a tell though ?
- Do you feel like Bardull and Gheb could be TvT, if not, why does one HAVE to be scum
- How do you feel about Gheb's push specifically on Bardull, is it really all that scummy to ask people to vote with you if they agree with you, and if Gheb was truly trying to rush the lynch, why is that specifically scummy ?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

So basically what I'm asking is: if mafia wants to coordinate their play as you would call it. Why would they have any interest in coming across as playing that way? If coordinated play is typical for mafia, then exhibiting behavior that comes across as "coordinated" is the exact opposite of what they would do.

Ultimately, my point was that your reasoning for leaning town on Moosey is faulty. You assume too much - you assume that you understand how the mafiosi work and what they do. You assume that there's a fundamental "pattern" or "approach" that mafiosi follow that they can be identified by. You assume that Moosey is town for not following that approach. Get rid of those ideas please. The sooner you realize that there's no such thing as a "scum tell" [the way a less experienced player expects it], the better.

How do you feel about RadicalRat's early running in all directions
How do you feel about Zaixl's running joke
How do you feel about Generic liking Zaixl for said running joke

 

[Zaixl]

WiFi possibly fixed, dunno yet...

Rake: Could you elaborate on sneakytako?

 

[Kaladin]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake

I read Gheb's "start voting for him pls" as "lynch him please". In retrospect, this is likely little more than confirmation bias for two reasons:
1. Gheb has dgames experience. He knows he wouldn't get a fast lynch off.
2. I was actively looking for signs of scumminess from oher players. Like I said, confirmation bias.

I only fully realized this when I set out to answer your question. In light of this I would like to formally unvote: ~ Gheb ~ until there's more to go off of.

 

[Kaladin]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake Also what's wif da maven jankiness? Has that slot done anything other than be null? Explain please.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake Also what's wif da maven jankiness? Has that slot done anything other than be null? Explain please.

Its a meta read. He lurks a lot as scum and has a history of being put under pressure just to come out looking sideways. I want to force this issue and see if I'm right. It doesn't matter I'm stating this outright because if he changes his answers to seem more townie it'll come across.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

WiFi possibly fixed, dunno yet...

Rake: Could you elaborate on sneakytako?

Like, my read on him or ?

 

[Zaixl]

Can't quote, mobile pos but this is in response to Rake
-The part about feeling out alignments was an observation, as both town and Mafia would do that for separate reasons.
-I fully accept the possibility of them being tvt but I think that one of them is Mafia trying to push a lunch.
-I saw it as Mafia trying to get an easy D1 kill.

Probably not posting until morning.

 

[Kaladin]

Its a meta read. He lurks a lot as scum and has a history of being put under pressure just to come out looking sideways. I want to force this issue and see if I'm right. It doesn't matter I'm stating this outright because if he changes his answers to seem more townie it'll come across.

If someone can confirm this I'll join that wagon for the sake of pressure.

 

[Zaixl]

Elaborate on your read, yes. I want to see your thoughts in depth.

 

[#HBC | J]

"I love seeing you all in this misery, let's go somewhere more slippery!"

Freezeezy Peak!

~Day 1 Votecount 1.3~

1. Gheb_01 (0)
2. Orboknown (0)
3. Zaixl

(1) MoosyDoosy
4. BarDicuLous

(3) Gheb, Sneaky, RadRat
5. RadicalRat (0)
6. TheKingofKoopas (0)
7. sneakytako

(1) Bardull
8. Maven89

(2) Orboknown, Rake
9. *GenericHandle* (0)
10. MoosyDoosy (0)
11. Shun Goku Satsu Rake (0)


Not Voting: (4) KingKoopa, Generic, Maven, Zaixl

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch!
Deadline is Thursday 10/1 at 5:00pm MT!​

 

[Kaladin]

Oooooh! I get it! The spinny puzzle pieces are the votes! Derp.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Oooooh! I get it! The spinny puzzle pieces are the votes! Derp.

These are the power of the jiggies.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

How do you feel about RadicalRat's early running in all directions

I know this was asked to Gheb, but I would say that's normal for Rad. He was lynched in the last game for being too shifty.
He's not as all-over-the-place though, which makes sense considering he said he wanted to improve his playstyle.

 

[Zaixl]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake erm... You never elaborated

 

[~ Gheb ~]

In what way / what do you make of it?

I personally didn't have a problem with any of these accusations besides Rake's "baits." I can understand that being scummy, but everything else, nah. Especially when you find the contradiction:

[...]

Even then, Bard simply gave a thumbs up. I just felt he would have had more to say, especially since there are problems in the post.

It's a bit of a stretch, but that's why I said I wanted to investigate it rather than saying a scum team is definite.

I see a possibility that you and Bard are working together, given the fact that you guys seem to agree with each other over things I find surprising.

Seems like we're on a completely different page on that matter then. In no way am I of the opinion that Bardull's support for Moosey's early play makes them likely scum partners. On the contrary - I suspect that scum!Bardull would've just tried to buddy a new player to get him on his side. Since the mafiosi know who's town and who's not it's very temping for them to feign support of a townie to gain credibility, especially if that townie happens to be a new player. So if anything, I'd say that upon a scumflip of Bardull I'd be all the more inclined to read Moosey as a townie even though I already have a very solid town read on him to begin with.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Its a meta read. He lurks a lot as scum and has a history of being put under pressure just to come out looking sideways. I want to force this issue and see if I'm right. It doesn't matter I'm stating this outright because if he changes his answers to seem more townie it'll come across.

I dunno, that's also his town meta to a certain extent.

But I'm OK with lynching him if he's not active. We'll just have to see what he ends up doing, maybe he just legitimately doesn't have the time to post a lot right now. I doubt that waggoning him right now will really give us anything to work with if he's simply not here.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Post of mine got eaten because the site was down for some 30 minutes.

In response to Rake:

I don't have a problem with what RadRat is doing.
I'm not sure what running joke you are talking about.