Banjo-Kazooie Mafia: Grunty's Back! Game Over! Did Grunty win in the end?

[RadicalRat]

I don't really know Maven's meta...

But I do know that it was the quiet ones last game, and we didn't push in time because we had them as null.

However, Bard really needs to get off his ass and defend himself. He's being far too quiet as well, and my vote's already there.

Shun Goku Satsu Rake
Forgive not quoting, I too, am playing on mobile.

But what makes you so sure BardulL's defense will hold up against Gheb's? Gheb's been actively participating the entire game, and is clearly confident in his Bard push. Meanwhile, Bard's barely been posting, and while his beef with sneaky makes sense to me, it looks like he's just been trying to ignore Gheb and hope he goes away.

I'd say he needs a damn good defense for this one.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Huh. Bard may or may not have just given up on defending himself. Either way, this silence just does not bode well for him.

 

[Maven89]

Its a meta read. He lurks a lot as scum and has a history of being put under pressure just to come out looking sideways. I want to force this issue and see if I'm right. It doesn't matter I'm stating this outright because if he changes his answers to seem more townie it'll come across.

I think you're basing that entirely on my last game, where I was independent. That's the only time I can remember trying to get pressure put on me.

Otherwise, I'm coasting cause I haven't read that thoroughly and only really feel qualified to talk about Bardull's stuff but he hasn't responded at all. Otherwise I'll say no one has stuck out to me as being scummy like Bard did. Radical Rat I'm afraid is going to get himself lynched so I'm keeping an eye on pushes against him for the future cause I see him being a quick target for scum. Though I'll clarify I'm not reading him as town, but if he was town he'd probably be my #1 pick for a mislynch since he seems to be rather aggressive and getting in people's faces.

 

[Zaixl]

BarDulL might be MIA for unrelated reasons. Give him time.

 

[RadicalRat]

Radical Rat I'm afraid is going to get himself lynched so I'm keeping an eye on pushes against him for the future cause I see him being a quick target for scum. Though I'll clarify I'm not reading him as town, but if he was town he'd probably be my #1 pick for a mislynch since he seems to be rather aggressive and getting in people's faces.

Would you mind giving me an example of when I've been too aggressive?

I'm always working to improve my game, and if this is putting me in danger of a mislynch I should get this straightened out moving forward.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake erm... You never elaborated

I fell asleep

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Post of mine got eaten because the site was down for some 30 minutes.

In response to Rake:

I don't have a problem with what RadRat is doing.
I'm not sure what running joke you are talking about.

The one where he keeps reading himself as scum

 

[BarDulL]

I've been busy with school, recruiting, etc.

I put myself in a position to support Moosy because Moosy is clearly a new player, and getting new players motivated and to keep them talking is important. I did not immediately agree with everything Moosy said, contrary to popular opinion. The same applies to why I told Gheb to quit being a wiener; some older members of the community here have the tendency to be authoritative and bothersome when dealing with new players. It's not that I don't get the rationale behind it, it's that there's no long-term merit in shutting people down and telling them that "their reasoning sucks" and so on. It's the same rationale behind why I pushed against Rake, except it was mostly BS to get the game rolling.

I'm playing a more support-ish role in the game, as well as in the community, at least for now. So yeah, that's been my MO from the start. If I have to be honest, community building supersedes my alignment to a degree, but not by much.

Back to school stuff. I'll be back later tonight if I am needed.

 

[Kaladin]

...Not entirely sure I buy that. What does everyone else think?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The one where he keeps reading himself as scum

I missed that? Any post #s?

...Not entirely sure I buy that. What does everyone else think?

... this just in: you shouldn't go by what other people think if you don't buy it.

But it'd be good to know what makes you doubt it.

 

[Kaladin]

I missed that? Any post #s?



... this just in: you shouldn't go by what other people think if you don't buy it.

But it'd be good to know what makes you doubt it.

I want to hear others' opinions to feel out others' alignments/thought process, not to superceed my own opinion.

I'm skeptical because he basically said "I'm acting like scum because it helps build the community."

Seems legit.

 

[BarDulL]

Let it be known that I would do that regardless of alignment, Town or Scum. Don't want people thinking I would sell something like that and turn out to be a liar, or otherwise condemn myself as a Town slot for actually saying something that may not seem believable.

 

[BarDulL]

I actually don't think I was acting scummy, and people overreacted. I actually still don't really get why people are on my case about it, really.

 

[BarDulL]

NOT IMPLYING that they are in the wrong to think that way, it's just that I legit don't get why it looks scummy, unless you guys think I was trying to get Moosy in my pocket. Uh.

 

[Zaixl]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake Um... Still waiting on your elaboration on sneakytako

 

[MoosyDoosy]

I've been busy with school, recruiting, etc.

I put myself in a position to support Moosy because Moosy is clearly a new player, and getting new players motivated and to keep them talking is important. I did not immediately agree with everything Moosy said, contrary to popular opinion. The same applies to why I told Gheb to quit being a wiener; some older members of the community here have the tendency to be authoritative and bothersome when dealing with new players. It's not that I don't get the rationale behind it, it's that there's no long-term merit in shutting people down and telling them that "their reasoning sucks" and so on. It's the same rationale behind why I pushed against Rake, except it was mostly BS to get the game rolling.

I'm playing a more support-ish role in the game, as well as in the community, at least for now. So yeah, that's been my MO from the start. If I have to be honest, community building supersedes my alignment to a degree, but not by much.

Back to school stuff. I'll be back later tonight if I am needed.

Well, I thank you for your kind thought, but I'd like for you to re-evaluate your sneakytako vote because I frankly do not think there is much behind it to support it.

 

[BarDulL]

Well, I thank you for your kind thought, but I'd like for you to re-evaluate your sneakytako vote because I frankly do not think there is much behind it to support it.

I actually don't like where this is going and feel like no matter what I say, people are going to be on my ****.

So I'm claiming Kazooie, Town Tracker. This is your guys' fault for buying into Gheb's bull****, and now my claim is out in the open. Go ahead and keep the pressure up if you guys want.

 

[BarDulL]

 

[Kaladin]

Anyone gonna counter-claim? If not, I would strongly oppose a Bardul lynch.

 

[RadicalRat]

I actually don't like where this is going and feel like no matter what I say, people are going to be on my ****.

So I'm claiming Kazooie, Town Tracker. This is your guys' fault for buying into Gheb's bull****, and now my claim is out in the open. Go ahead and keep the pressure up if you guys want.

Interesting.

I feel like it might be just a touch early for a role claim... I mean the Day's only just begun.

However... Kazooie is a character all but guaranteed to be in the game, making it an awful role to claim if you weren't REALLY Kazooie.

If he'd claimed a more obscure flavor character, I'd say he's still not looking good. But I just can't see someone actually expecting to get away with faking a title character.

With this mind, and barring any counter-claims being made...
BardulL is cleared as far as I'm concerned

Unvote

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

I missed that? Any post #s?



... this just in: you shouldn't go by what other people think if you don't buy it.

But it'd be good to know what makes you doubt it.

I'll quote it soon

 

[Orboknown]

Charger still shot
But
Why is the tracker always claiming ass early as of late
Why
And its usually bardull or soup too

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Shun Goku Satsu Rake Um... Still waiting on your elaboration on sneakytako

I honestly don't even remember if i built an opinion on him right now. I feel like he should do more ? Honestly the slots been kinda around but IDK what more to say about it

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Hm, Bardul, you still need to elaborate on your vote on sneakytako. A pity I didn't see your uneasy play as a blue role and tried to defend you.

I think I am going to push a Raixl lynch now tbh.

 

[RadicalRat]

I think I am going to push a Raixl lynch now tbh.

Anything in particular that makes you want to go with Zaixl? Or is it just a gut feeling?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Tracker can be scum.

Just saying.

But yeah, Bardull you better actually respond to stuff than playing the "you guys are stupid for calling out my scummy play so I just claim to make you feel bad"-card. I mean you got like 3 or 4 votes on you right now and we're only about halfway through the Day. There was absolutely zero reason to claim and you still owe us some explanations regardless.

 

[RadicalRat]

Tracker can be scum.

Just saying.

What use would a Tracker have on the Mafia side though? I GUESS it could be used to find the Town's PowerRoles, but then it's just a stupidly roundabout version of a Role Cop, isn't it?

 

[Orboknown]

It also helps the mafia by giving them a role most people consider town, or rather it hurts town if they just trust it blindly

 

[RadicalRat]

It also helps the mafia by giving them a role most people consider town, or rather it hurts town if they just trust it blindly

Okay, cool, that makes sense then.

My only issues now would be that...

1) He's claiming Kazooie. Last time I checked, Kazooie was definitely a "good guy".

2)

Charger still shot
But
Why is the tracker always claiming *** early as of late
Why
And its usually bardull or soup too

This quote implies that Bard has a history of claiming early as a Town Tracker. Which would make concerns about him claiming so early in the Day irrelevant.

 

[Orboknown]

Mafia games usually warp flavor to make stuff like that less applicable than normal. Heck we had half life mafia where the other freeman brother was Indy and I think we had a ff7game where cloud was scum

 

[~ Gheb ~]

What use would a Tracker have on the Mafia side though? I GUESS it could be used to find the Town's PowerRoles, but then it's just a stupidly roundabout version of a Role Cop, isn't it?

Fyi I don't actually suspect that Bardull is a scum Tracker.

 

[RadicalRat]

Mafia games usually warp flavor to make stuff like that less applicable than normal. Heck we had half life mafia where the other freeman brother was Indy and I think we had a ff7game where cloud was scum

Gotcha.

So all that stands in the way now is that this apparently matches his Town history then?

Unless BarDulL would like to try defending himself at some point?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

So all that stands in the way now is that this apparently matches his Town history then?

... it won't be that simple, I'm afraid. Even the scummiest player can still end up flipping town. We have to consider everything.

 

[MoosyDoosy]

Okay, so we have to take Bardul's claim as true for now which more or less means he's town. Obviously Gheb is town as well which confirms my suspicions that this was your standard Town vs Town ****fest. Now that that's settled, we can look at who pushed for the lynch.

Out of all the people who tried to push for a lynch in the Bardul/Gheb situation, Zaixl stands out. Especially this post and the reasoning that followed it.

Gheb first cause he's irritating tbh
And it would make Bard our biggest target day two at the very least. Consideration for role claims and other stuff of course but for now I feel like this is safest

Then if that happens you can lynch me and feel stupid. Gheb seems scummy for several reasons:
-His initial jump on Bard with no prior explanation
-The fact that he's trying to rush votes
-As far as I can see(could be wrong) he still hasn't provided reasoning for Bard yet still pushes the vote
-And the mustache in his avatar looks sinister.
Zax is fine. ^_^

Zaixl's reasoning for going against Gheb is terrible.
- Gheb was actually one of the early people to vote for Bard and he gave reasoning why so it's not a jump with "no explanation".
- As explained, the vote was primarily to put pressure on Bard and get him to explain his stances.

Zaixl's use of language in his decision to lynch Gheb is strange as well. "Safest" implies that this is the play which will yield the most reward for least risk. But in this case, Bard is more objectively scummy than Gheb and yet Zaixl is voting for the other person.

It also shows a lack of interest in how the lynches will shape out. "...it would make Bard our biggest target day two at the very least" is narrowing down town's view and states that Zaixl is already looking to force out two mislynches which is absolutely not a mindset town should have.

He is also inadvertently saying that he is role hunting: "Consideration for role claims and other stuff". Town should leave blues alone and not role hunt, but Zaixl is showing an interest in finding out who is blue when there should be no need to.

So why did he try to push the Gheb lynch first? Because it would be easier to push for Bard's death in D2 than Gheb's. Zaixl also had a modicum of thread control by appearing as townie as possible so if he managed to push this lynch through then Mafia would be in a very good situation to get two mislynches.

Vote: Zaixl

 

[Zaixl]

Para1: I either missed that or read it wrong, could you quote/give a post#?
Para2: At that that time I had considered them to be about equal in scumminess, mostly cause I missed the post described in para1.
Para3: I honestly believed one of them was definitely Mafia (still do, just Gheb is almost definitely town and Bard is fishy, I'll cover that after my para analysis) and was acting on that.
Para4: Not at all. I was saying that if a role reveal or other variable came up we should handle that first. (Screwed up my tense in there somewhere... Hm.)
Also I'd like to point out that I'm pretty new to this. This is only my sixth game, I'm gonna make mistakes.

As for my thoughts on Bard, I think he's looking more scummy from claiming a power role than if he hadn't. I also think that Kazooie is quite likely to be a Mafiosi as Grunty has changed around faces to confuse who's good/evil. Or something like that. It's in post one.

 

[sneakytako]

Ok, Bardul is full of crap.

I'm ccing him, I'm Mumbo Jumbo, Town even-Night Tracker.

I REALLY hate the fact that I have to CC, but Bardul is 100% scum to me now. It's me or him, and I think that's a 5050 we should take.

 

[sneakytako]

So I know my CC looks suspicious because it wasn't immediate, but consider the following:

If I was scum, this play is terrible. At best we kill bardul, flips town, and I die, that a 1 for 1 scenario, where town has 7 people left and scum has two, making lylo in 2 days. This s a net loss for scum; optimal conditions would have lylo on day 3 with this setup, this would push lylo back 1 day, allowing more time for town to scum hunt. Worst case scenario, I would die first, flip scum, and then that would be the end of it, with town up 10 to 2, causing lylo to be in 4 days on day 5.

On the flip side, as explained above flipping me town then bardul scum would be a net gain for town; lylo would be extended to day 4, we would be able to scumhunt for longer. Optimally we end up 10 town 2 scum if bardul is lynched tonight.

I just wanted to be clear that I believe this play only makes sense for town.

 

[sneakytako]

The worst case scenario is that there is 2 trackers on the same faction, but I get the sense that we aren't on the same team bardul.

 

[RadicalRat]

At this point, I'm inclined to trust Sneaky over Bard.

If this were a fake CC, I feel like Sneaky would have just said Tracker, not even-Night Tracker.

 

[Kaladin]

This just got interesting. I'll post when I'm home from school.