FancySmash
: I have thought about it before, actually.
Bandana Dee's most notable trait (in my mind) is his loyalty, so I was thinking that it would be fitting if he snapped out of it for a few seconds at the end of each phase to throw an item to help the player. Dedede and Meta Knight both have traits that make it difficult for them to resist such influences (Dedede has his rivalry with Kirby, and MK can't resist a good fight to test/improve his abilities.), but BanDee is usually just following orders or helping people. He has no reason to want to hurt his friends.
No reason to hurt his friends... unless of course, he were to join the fray in Smash. Then it'd all be in good fun I'd imagine.
But yeah, I imagine Bandana Dee would be the easiest to return to normal. Aside from Kirby of course, who, for obvious reasons, will never get possessed.
Personally, I'm STILL a tad miffed that this DIDN'T happen in Star Allies, but I guess when you consider how the little guy is supposedly supposed to be the Luigi/Tails to Kirby's Mario/Sonic in this day and age, I guess it sort of makes sense just why HAL wouldn't seem to have any intentions of doing something like that... right now, at least...
I'll say this much though... If it did/ever does happen? I would want B.W.D. to legit be the most difficult possessed boss ever in the history of Kirby.
Like you suggested, maybe the battle with the possessed B.W.D. would (at first) look to be a repeat of their first (and only) fight against each other in Revenge of the King, but once he has 1/4 of his health remaining, he suddenly begins to go on the offensive, using crazy OP variations of all of his Spear attacks to end Kirby (ex. Spear Barrage has WAY longer reach, Spear Toss has him releasing 10 spears rather than 3, Spear-Copter generates a tornado around his body which would leave Kirby unable to even touch him for a time, etc.) and he'd even use an OP version of Megaton Punch that covers a MASSIVE radius when he punches the ground, leaving VERY little room for Kirby to escape the attack (BTW, if you choose to inhale the little guy, you'd automatically take out 3/4 of his health, immediately getting to the hard part of the fight).
BTW, guys. I edited my post from before about Waddle Dees being really cute, so now you can click the link that takes you to the image that seems to be broken.
I could see that 10 spear toss be like a spear rain, he tosses them all up, jumps into the background, and lets them all fall while Kirby avoids them, since the 3D Kirby games really seem to be pushing the background in the fights more often. Inhaling him... I think for the sake of his expanded roll, the inhaling him thing would probably be removed, as at this point, he's a major character, and most games won't let you inhale major bosses. (For example, Kirby could inhale all three of his friends in RtDL, but that wouldn't happen in boss fights). But I could also see it happening for Easter Egg purposes.
I actually kind of like how he starts out as the only Dream Friend you can have join you in Star Allies due to not getting possessed. Shows that his friendship with Kirby is strong and true. But I'll admit, the idea of a battle with Bandana Dee possessed could certainly be fun if they took it seriously.
These are both good ideas, if a bit contradictory in terms of the length of the fight, and smashkirby seems to have misread Fancy Smash's idea about BD's HP. How about something of a compromise or combination?
For example, Fancy Smash brought up Dee changing phases after losing the first quarter of his HP-- he'll still have 3/4 though. So right off, Bandana Dee has the unique trait of changing phases every time you knock off a quarter of his max health, with him tossing you a recovery item between each phase shift. Or perhaps we could combine the Kirby 64 and modern RtDL onwards methods, and give him two full health bars, changing phase after the first quarter of his first bar, then after the first bar, and the halfway mark of the second. I also think Bandana Dee should toss three items to Kirby over the course of the fight;
First, a reserve Maxim Tomato. Being the first phase shift, Bandana Dee would have enough control to toss Kirby the most useful item he can think of.
Secondly, a 1-Up. It's the halfway mark, so it'd be a kinda jerkish fake-out to make you think you won (also because it'd be the next item Bandana Dee wanted to give Kirby anyway)
And finally, a basic recovery tomato. Being the mark of the last phase, Dee wouldn't have as much control over what he tosses to Kirby, and giving you another really good item would make the last part of the fight too easy.
Anyway, first phase would probably be a recreation of the first/only canon fight, with a twist. Bandana Dee takes a lot less damage from Copy Ability attacks than most bosses, but he can be grabbed and thrown by any Ability with such a move and he does flinch, just like that fight. Those who played SSU might think to just eat him again....but that's a really bad idea. I was initially thinking Kirby could simply refuse to inhale BD, but then going that route would really hurt the player if they're actually just trying to get their power back from a careless mistake. Instead, Kirby if Kirby inhales BD, it instantly ends the first phase, but he struggles fiercely, causing Kirby's body to cartoonishly bump around before Bandana Dee escapes, causing Kirby to fall on his face with BD lacking his bandana as he flies to the edge of the screen. Once Kirby recovers, he coughs out the bandana, which flutters over by Bandana Dee, and the player loses half HP from Kirby's guilt as things progress straight to the second phase of the fight with no recovery items, though since this would destroy Kirby's ability, BD could toss a spear to him instead like Meta Knight does, or simply drop one that Kirby automatically inhales. Ending the first phase with an attack causes him to fly into the edge of the screen, knocking his bandana off, but when he recovers, Bandana Dee shakes his head and throws Kirby the reserve Maxim Tomato, but then holds his head as the possession takes over again.
To start phase 2, BD puts his bandana back on, draws his spear, and proceeds to fight just as he does in RtDL, Rainbow Curse, and Star Allies, using the normal Spear moveset to fight you, and sometimes blocking your attacks. I'd say the only real difference between his playable moves and the boss would be a kicking attack when he uses Spearcopter to keep you off him, and maybe a charged Spear Toss throwing 5 spears instead of 3. Otherwise, identical to his playable attacks. Also, from here on, he can no longer be inhaled, though the repercussions of inhaling him don't end yet. If you inhaled him in phase 1, you get a regular tomato instead of a 1-Up for defeating phase 2. Worth noting that Bandana Dee can still be grabbed and thrown by attacks which normally don't affect bosses, like Ninja Kirby's Sky Drop or Parasol's Circus Throw, and he can be interrupted from charging Spearcopter and Spear Toss.
Phase 3 introduces elemental additions to certain attacks, such as Spearcopter being surrounded by a tornado as Bandana Dee flies to the top of the screen, Bandana Dee now has the ability to perform dodges, and his charged attacks cannot be interrupted. He no longer flinches from regular attacks, but he's still vulnerable to grabs, even when dodging. Also, Spear Toss charged releases 7 spears instead of 3 or 5. Worth noting he can still be damaged when charging attacks, he just can't be interrupted or grabbed. If you inhaled Bandana Dee in the first phase, you don't get anything from beating this phase.
Phase 4, the dramatic finish. Bandana Dee is no longer affected by grabs/throws, does not flinch, and pulls out even more power in a Megaton Punch that acts like another charged attack like Spear Toss and Spearcopter, but Dee puts his spear on his back and takes the Megaton Punch stance. After a few seconds, he'll unleash it, sending powerful shockwaves along the ground. Touching one sends Kirby flying off the top of the screen for a while and deals a lot of damage, though Bandana Dee wouldn't use the move often, and a charged Spear Toss flings 10 spears at you. Spear Barrage would get used a lot more often in this phase, with spears thrown at you a lot quicker than before. Dodging and blocking would be absolutely essential in this fight, mostly dodging since I don't think the thrown spears' hitboxes would last long once they land.
What do you think?
I like the idea of him progressively trying to break free of what's possessing him as the course of the battle goes on, though in the end not being able too. Shows he's a closer friend of sorts than Dedede and Meta Knight. I think this could also work if they ever do Dededetour Returns, as it'd be hard for Bandana Dee to fight the king who's also his friend. As mentioned previously, inhaling him is a weird topic for sure. I could kinda see a small cutscene where Kirby inhales him, but it does no damage. Instead, Kirby bounces around for a few seconds, as Bandana Dee struggles to escape. Eventually doing so, he straightens his Bandana and turns to Kirby giving him a small glare, translating to something along the lines of "did you seriously think that'd work?"
I like all these ideas, they fit his character well. Plus, I think having a more serious boss fight, while calling back to his joke fight for at least part of the battle, could open people to the idea that he's no common mook.
EDIT
Hey. This is cool and all, and I don’t have anything against the character, but I’m not sure if you can use the “generic” argument.
I mean, yeah, Yoshi is just a Yoshi, but Yoshi has something that Waddle Dee doesn’t have; Games. Yoshi cookie, Super Mario World 2: Yoshi’s Island, Yoshi Story, that one game that came out for the original DS, Yarn Yoshi. He’s had games coming out for s cool minute, some before y’all were born lol. Not to mention he’s just loved phenomenally amongst people who recognize Nintendo characters.
While Yoshi can be generic in nature, I wouldn’t expect every Yoshi to function the same, same as I wouldn’t expect every Waddle Dee to function the same. But conversely to my argument, some Yoshi’s have wings and can fly, and Bandana Waddle Dee uses a spear. But with that argument, should Winged Yoshi be added to the game on that premise?
What doesn’t hurt the characters chances of being a fighter shy of the presence of the character in a series that is lesser known to those who don’t pay attention to Nintendo, is the characters Marketability. Smash’s muscle to bring prestige to its represented franchises is unprecedented in its success and execution, by having characters who are not only unique and dynamic on the character select screen, but also have strong franchise presence. A Waddle Dee with a bandana does very little to entice the core audience of gamers who are unable to differentiate the character from Kirby or Jigglypuff, which is really important when you understand the psychology behind why we make choices. Breakfast cereals with mascots are typically placed on lower shelves so that kids will pic them out and entice parents to buy them, and candy is placed near the front of the store because shoppers are more likely to make worse purchasing decisions when they are mentally fatigued. This works in the same way that character composition, color schemes, attitudes, etc. make a character stand out. Furthermore when they are part of a franchise that has growth. Ultimately, you can compare Dee with Kirby and Jigglypuff, but Kirby’s the star of the show, and Pokémon is a nation wide phenomenon with Jigglypuff standing out as her own character in the anime helps as well, especially considering that she has Sing as one of her moves like in the anime.
With all this said, I could be wrong. Crazier things have happened. People didn’t react to Isabelle, an incredibly popular character, very well due to her marketability as a character (at least I believe that). Most people were far more excited for Chrom just because he’s a cool *** dude with a sword. I think having a character with a spear is cool, but when the largest component of the initial post is dedicated to why he is relevant to a franchise to a forum full of gamers, doesn’t bode well with the possibility of public perception.
Personally speaking, if there were a spear using character, I would want Ephraim from Fire Emblem Sacred Stones.
Sorry, I'm... not sure who you're responding to, if you are that is. Err, anyways, I assume this is the "at face value, he's just a generic Waddle Dee" argument. Now, it doesn't seem that you actually believe that yourself, as you stated you have nothing against the character, you're more referring to how the Smash fan base would take him. To be fair on Yoshi's case, yes Yoshi has had his own games, but
technically speaking, the Yoshi in those games... aren't the Yoshi known from the Mario series. At the end of Yoshi's Island DS, we get this adorable little guy here:
He's largely hinted at being the Yoshi we'll come to know and love later on, so that already begs the question of who the Yoshi in Smash really is. Is it the one Mario has befriended at present, or the one who helped him as a baby? It's not clear.
As for marketability... I think you make a valid point.
However, the Kirby series heavily markets not just Bandanna Dee, but the entire Waddle Dee species, mostly due to just how cute it is. And hey, cute definitely sells, that's Kirby's bread and butter. Now, how that translates to Smash? Well... as you said, Isabelle did it, and I think the difference there is that Isabelle heavily needed some character contradiction to make her work. The only real fighting in Animal Crossing is hitting the villagers you don't like with your net. It's the fact of that, and that she's so heavily inspired from Villager without being an echo I think that rubbed people the wrong way.
As for using a Fire Emblem character instead... I can't really fight that. I have so little knowledge of the Fire Emblem series. Sure, it personally bothered me that it got so much attention, but to someone like you who's a fan of the series, who am I to say they
shouldn't add more? That said, I can say that I personally think Fire Emblem has the same issue as Pokémon. Many of the characters in both series are important one day and replaced the next. It makes it hard to choose characters to properly represent the series. I mean, just look at the Pokémon that you brought up, Jigglypuff. You can't honestly tell me that she's got as much relevance today as she did in previous years. And this is coming from someone who's mained Jigglypuff... as well as it being their favorite Pokémon. As much as I like her, I cannot deny that she's not as big as she once was.
All in all, maybe I'm not sure what I'm trying to say. Sure, marketing Bandanna Dee can be hard, but that's true for any character. I'm sure when Nintendo first made Mario, they weren't sure how to market the now most popular video game character. I do concede to you that it won't be easy, but this is Smash, and Smash prides itself on making the best out of it's cast! All I can say to you is: Yes, Bandanna Dee has hurdles, but hurdles are made for jumping!
So, thanks for taking the time friend to listen to this long winded response.
