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Bad Charizard Matchups (first impressions)

RighteousWednesday

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Hey guys. First ever Smashboards topic! I was just wondering what everyone is thinking about Charizards matchups on the 3ds?

Right of the bat I think Sheik is like 80>20 to Charizard.

Sheik is so fast and can combo Charizard for days now he is not as fast as he is in project m either and if anything Sheik got smaller. Charizard has a lot of trouble regaining his footing on the stage too at higher percents. And I am pretty sure her neutral b spikes can stop flare blitz which is super annoying.
 

Kingdom Come

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I've faced a few sheiks and have had no problems. Idk if it is just me but Marth has been a pain in the bass to deal with. Little Mac has been a tough one but even then that was 50-50.
 

iVoltage

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Villager has been giving me alot of trouble too. Mainly because his tree stops my flare blitz which is super annoying. Campy characters in all are a bit harder to face.
 

The Real Gamer

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Villager has been giving me alot of trouble too. Mainly because his tree stops my flare blitz which is super annoying. Campy characters in all are a bit harder to face.
Why would you try Flare Blizing a tree? The move should only be used to punish rolls/endlag never as a go to approach option.
 

Masonomace

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Why would you try Flare Blizing a tree? The move should only be used to punish rolls/endlag never as a go to approach option.
Because Fire good. Fire > Grass Tree.
Well said though. Super reads would punish tech rolls, or crossing-up feint edge-guarding an opponent's recovery thus FB'ing toward the stage, stage spiking them persay they don't tech off the wall.

As for MU's I see Zard struggle with, I'd say :4sonic: as a general MU Zard players wouldn't enjoy playing against.
 
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Kingdom Come

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I haven't had any problems with Sonic. I like the matchup against Lucina whereas Marth is a butthole for some reason but I haven't fought any Pikas yet
 

SleuthMechanism

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Charizard seems to have a hard time getting in on shulk. There seems to be no safe way to aproach him at all and he can keep out of charizard's attack range for days.
 

Remzi

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I agree that as of now, Sheik seems very difficult. Nothing feels safe on her, and he's definitely combo fodder for her off of almost any setup. Its too early to tell, though. I think we have the advantage offstage. Beyond that, I haven't found any very difficult matchups yet.

Charizard seems to thrive against spacing oriented characters, because he's surprisingly long limbed and hits harder then most of them. But he falters against the heavy pressure, speed characters. Again, it's early, so we'll see. Just my impressions.
 

Thatsa

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I haven't really had any bad matchups yet. Worst one might be vs Shiek though but not by much. maybe a 55/45 tops. The Sheik has to be on point, one missed chain and it pretty much turns into an auto win for me.
 

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I honestly don't think the Sheik matchup is all that bad for Zard. It's definitely not 80-20. More like 60-40 or even 55-45.

I mean it's not like Charizard doesn't have the right options vs Sheik. Nair-utilt combos for days, and don't forget Optimistic Charizard Flare Blitz, the ultimate rolling punish.
 

SleuthMechanism

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I honestly don't think the Sheik matchup is all that bad for Zard. It's definitely not 80-20. More like 60-40 or even 55-45.

I mean it's not like Charizard doesn't have the right options vs Sheik. Nair-utilt combos for days, and don't forget Optimistic Charizard Flare Blitz, the ultimate rolling punish.
I agree. I think it's mostly that sheik players have the lead in general when it comes to character knowledge and resources with the ammount of high level gameplay footage sheik has for smash 4 so far.
 

MechanicalRhythm

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Mac isnt bad at all for Zard imo, ftilt really messes him up, and once hes off stage in any manner you have a near unlimited amount of ways to dispose of him.

I find Rosalina near impossible to deal with. You might as well be sandbag until you can get rid of the Luma for a brief window of opportunity. You cant even punish landings with Flare Blitz half of the time.
 

D3boy510

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Mac isnt bad at all for Zard imo, ftilt really messes him up, and once hes off stage in any manner you have a near unlimited amount of ways to dispose of him.

I find Rosalina near impossible to deal with. You might as well be sandbag until you can get rid of the Luma for a brief window of opportunity. You cant even punish landings with Flare Blitz half of the time.
Mac is easy wait till his side b then rock smash it. it will get him off the ground for you do to all sorts of things to him. Rosalina is one I have trouble with. I try to get in between her and luma, then go from there. duck hunt dog is a pain though.
 

iVoltage

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If I see :4pikachu::4shulk::rosalina::4sheik: I have a really hard time. rosaluma specially I cannot get near her at all because of her neutral b edge guarding.
 

The Real Gamer

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Pretty sure the gunman blocks it but I'll have to double check on that one.

Regardless Flare Blitz isn't a reliable approach option since the opponent can always shield and then hard punish it. A good DHD won't let you approach for free.
 
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Kayeka

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After today's string of For Glory matches, I've come to the conclusion that Mario, and probably Dr. Mario and Luigi, are bad news for the 'Zard. It's not a particularly terrible matchup once the first blows have been dealt, but the problem is that Mario has some pretty good low-percentage combos that I couldn't escape very easy. I basically started the match at a 40% disadvantage, since that was the damage that first combo did, three matches in a row.

This is possibly me just sucking at DI, Vectoring, or whatever, but it probably won't improve Charizard's standing when newer player see this happen to him.
 

Knee Smasher

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I think Charizard's worst matchups in this game are King Dedede and Yoshi.
 

Jexulus

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I think Charizard's worst matchups in this game are King Dedede and Yoshi.
You don't understand his tilt game, then. I give my friend, who happens to use both of them a lot, a hard time with Charizard. F-tilt and Fair are awesome for knocking back D3's Gordos right back at him (though he still has time to shield it) and spacing him out. Plus, Rock Smash's super armor works wonders for soaking up some of his moves. As for Yoshi, just use utilt to defeat his Dair, and you should be fine.
 

Spinosaurus

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How do you guys deal with Rosalina? She gives me such a hard time.
 

Jexulus

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How do you guys deal with Rosalina? She gives me such a hard time.
No idea. The priority on her moves, as well as Luma's, have insane priority and come out incredibly fast. I'm trying out strategies myself, including dashing in with Rock Smash, jumping in with Nair, etc. Can't say anything for sure quite yet.
 

Remzi

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I don't think this is a particularly bad matchup, but WOW, Lucario's aura is stupid in this game. Played a Lucario yesterday, died at 60% to a dsmash and 80% to an fsmash in one game. My fault for getting hit, but jeez, if you don't kill him before 130%, you're in trouble.
 

Kayeka

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I don't think this is a particularly bad matchup, but WOW, Lucario's aura is stupid in this game. Played a Lucario yesterday, died at 60% to a dsmash and 80% to an fsmash in one game. My fault for getting hit, but jeez, if you don't kill him before 130%, you're in trouble.
Lucario's Aura got a pretty big buff in this game. Thankfully, he is still quite light, so it isn't all that difficult to take him out early. Just don't let him take an early lead, and all should be well.
 

LoveGame

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I haven't done too bad against Shieks lately, but I did lose to some.

Last few matches, this one Ness was destroying me mostly with PK Fire/grab combos (his grabs seem like they have huge priority, but I hit a few lag spikes so it was hard to tell). The last match I actually came back and wrecked him after I'd learned the MU better.
 

Swamp Sensei

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How are we supposed to fight :4greninja:?

Also tips for :4ness: would be good.
 

Knee Smasher

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You don't understand his tilt game, then. I give my friend, who happens to use both of them a lot, a hard time with Charizard. F-tilt and Fair are awesome for knocking back D3's Gordos right back at him (though he still has time to shield it) and spacing him out. Plus, Rock Smash's super armor works wonders for soaking up some of his moves. As for Yoshi, just use utilt to defeat his Dair, and you should be fine.
The problem is when King Dedede uses his Gordos when Charizard is approaching him. For example, a Firebreath won't work because Gordos go right through it, and King Dedede often throws a Gordo at Charizard when the the Flame Pokémon is just about to reach him and grab him or hit with a Neutral Air. Charizard cannot react in time to hit the Gordo back in such a situation. How do you approach King Dedede with Charizard?
 

Deaga

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I feel like Zard messes Mac up pretty badly.
Can you please elaborate on this? Every single time I face a (good) Little Mac on For Glory I get absolutely stomped as Zard. The second I'm launched into the air he just keeps juggling me with those smashes and up tilts. Rock Smash's super armor frames are useless when Little Mac's own smashes have super armor too! :( He's also able to punish the tiniest ammount of lag with all that speed, which also spells trouble for Charizard.
 

GroundZero996

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No idea. The priority on her moves, as well as Luma's, have insane priority and come out incredibly fast. I'm trying out strategies myself, including dashing in with Rock Smash, jumping in with Nair, etc. Can't say anything for sure quite yet.
I like playing more defensively. You can abuse Charizard's multi jump to bait out Luma and Rock Smash can be a very powerful tool for getting in on Rosalina, especially if you master reversing it to catch her rolls.

I feel like Flamethrower is a really good tool for racking up that damage. Getting the kill can be a little hard, but Charizard's Bair and Fsmash can be good for this. Flare Blitzing around haphazardly isn't going to get you anywhere, but if you get rid of Luma, or Between Luma and Rosalina it's a very good way to deal with Rosalina's insane disappearing rolls.

I like using retreating Nairs to deal some damage to Luma without getting caught in a jab. Starbits is annoying, but you can muscle through with Rock Smash.

Can you please elaborate on this? Every single time I face a (good) Little Mac on For Glory I get absolutely stomped as Zard. The second I'm launched into the air he just keeps juggling me with those smashes and up tilts. Rock Smash's super armor frames are useless when Little Mac's own smashes have super armor too! :( He's also able to punish the tiniest ammount of lag with all that speed, which also spells trouble for Charizard.
You just have to time the Super Armor better than he does. Don't just go in for the Rock Smash, time it so the super armor eats the smash. Charizard's multi jumps also makes it pretty hard for Mac to juggle him. Flame Thrower is also amazing. Jump and angle it down. You'll interrupt so many things. And Flare Blitz is great for punishing over rolling and recovering to the far side. Throws are your friend. Charizard can toss pretty far even at low percentages.

Watch out for counters though. Getting kill moves can be tough because of how good Mac's counter is.

The problem is when King Dedede uses his Gordos when Charizard is approaching him. For example, a Firebreath won't work because Gordos go right through it, and King Dedede often throws a Gordo at Charizard when the the Flame Pokémon is just about to reach him and grab him or hit with a Neutral Air. Charizard cannot react in time to hit the Gordo back in such a situation. How do you approach King Dedede with Charizard?
I'd say you don't really approach Dedede, but when you do Rock Smash is your friend. I like using retreating Nairs to whack his gordos back because short hop Nair is pretty much lagless, so you can power shield if he hits it back. The idea is to wait out his patience.
 
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McAwesome

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The problem is when King Dedede uses his Gordos when Charizard is approaching him. For example, a Firebreath won't work because Gordos go right through it, and King Dedede often throws a Gordo at Charizard when the the Flame Pokémon is just about to reach him and grab him or hit with a Neutral Air. Charizard cannot react in time to hit the Gordo back in such a situation. How do you approach King Dedede with Charizard?
That's strange, I encountered a Dedede in For Glory yesterday that caught me off guard when I used Lucina, but when I fought the user again I switched to Charizard, and didn't have much trouble. Maybe it was just a less skilled person, but I easily avoided his Smashes and used YOLO Charge to send him to Penguin Hell.
 

bc1910

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How are we supposed to fight :4greninja:?
Rock Smash screws up Greninja's juggles really badly because the super armour renders his multi-hit Uair much less effective. You can hit Greninja with the attack as he tries to juggle you most of the time. Obviously you can't exactly spam Rock Smash because it's pretty punishable and a good Greninja will wise up, but it still gives Charizard a strong option for dealing with juggles that a lot of characters don't have against Greninja. Also, airdodging really screws up Greninja's juggles in general. If you can limit the damage Greninja gets from Up Throw juggles, you're well on the way to beating him.

EDIT: Oh yeah, Flamethrower (angled down) is an amazing jump-in against Greninja. Totally screws him up if he's trying to charge a shuriken.
 
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Aliveidt

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I dont stand a chance against Ness
he traps me with PK-fire and comboes me with his aerials easily.
also, backthrow makes charizards weight basically useless
 

GroundZero996

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Rosalina is giving me a super tough time.
Rosalina seems to give everyone a tough time. Her and Sheik hurt a lot of characters viability.

I dont stand a chance against Ness
he traps me with PK-fire and comboes me with his aerials easily.
also, backthrow makes charizards weight basically useless
Don't run up. Ness is very weak to well placed Rock Smashes and he can't approach into retreating Nairs. Charizard can also get ness pretty good with jabs and follow up aerials.
 

Beethro

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how do you deal with pk thunder if youre not approaching? how do you deal with pk thunder if you are approaching? ness and megaman are a goddamn pain in the ass. and then greninja yoshi and lucario in general just make me wanna quit life matchup or not

also kinda off topic but does fox feel super easy to anyone or what? charizard seems maaade to edgeguard fox, especially with flamethrower

even more off topic but i cant wait till i can down-b and not accidentally turn around **** the circle pad it makes so many matchups unecessarily difficult lol
 

underpowered

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Shiek and Capt. F have been my worst match ups. So many combos against mr. knee and shiek's needle spam and speed are ... t.t
 

Knee Smasher

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Shieldgrab them. I don't think either of those two characters has a good matchup against Charizard.
 
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