Back Room Tier List Opinions

[The Star King]

You can blame me too

I'm pretty sure when I sent the list I put Luigi above Link on accident, or I was sleep deprived or something

There is no way I actually thought Luigi is better than Link

can we change that lol

 

[B Link]

I think luigi is better than link because he does better on more maps.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah but Link is mad good on Hyrule while Luigi is kind of bad everywhere

I also think Link is better than Ness now BTW

 

[asianaussie]

Link is often overrated by lots of people, including me.

Ness is average.

 

[Mew2King]

I'm actually pretty good at this game, but since I'm not known here you guys might not take me seriously

but I think fox is better than kirby is (even though kirby is WAY easier to use which is why i main him)

because Fox always can force the approach and 0-death off of one hit

something you guys may not know is that Fox's Fair beats all of kirby's attacks except up tilt

it always either Wins or Trades with kirby's bair (usually win in my experience) and you can link that to push him off stage a lot where he gets put in a very bad position


btw guys, do you think you could convince Alex to host Smash 64 on day 1 or 2 of Apex?

if you can, I wouldn't mind entering =) I'll show you I'm pretty good

can't do it on day 3 though, that's too important of a day =/

please post on the apex thread to make it day 1 or 2!!!

 

[ciaza]

We're not talking about the fox - kirby match up specifically, we're talking about how they each do against the rest of the cast in general.

 

[asianaussie]

as soon as somebody strikes hyrule, kirby is better than fox

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

btw guys, do you think you could convince Alex to host Smash 64 on day 1 or 2 of Apex?

if you can, I wouldn't mind entering =) I'll show you I'm pretty good

can't do it on day 3 though, that's too important of a day =/

please post on the apex thread to make it day 1 or 2!!!

I actually just talked to Alex Strife about this. He said he's putting 64 on saturday now and the final matches on sunday for teh hype.

also
>not posting this in apex 64 thread

 

[Mew2King]

awww damn

wait, for 64, does that just mean GF?

I don't think I'll beat Sensei or nintendude or someone that plays this game more/better than me, so that works fine with me, but I'll try my best!

so that works for me if that's the case!

I love the way Alex Strife is setting up this Apex! It's better than the setup of any tournament I've played before it by far!

 

[Battlecow]

I feel like we should ban Kirby after Apex. What do you guys think?

 

[ballin4life]

I'm actually pretty good at this game, but since I'm not known here you guys might not take me seriously

but I think fox is better than kirby is (even though kirby is WAY easier to use which is why i main him)

because Fox always can force the approach and 0-death off of one hit

something you guys may not know is that Fox's Fair beats all of kirby's attacks except up tilt

it always either Wins or Trades with kirby's bair (usually win in my experience) and you can link that to push him off stage a lot where he gets put in a very bad position

Fox can't just 0-death every time though (although if you've been playing Sensei I can maybe understand haha), and he has no room for error when you consider how easily he gets gimped.

Most people think Fox is better on Hyrule, but Kirby is better on all other stages.

 

[Mew2King]

Yeah it's true I'm heavily basing this off Sensei and isai videos. But isn't the tier list supposed to represent mainly the peak of their metagame or peak of what human known potential is?

but yeah it is also true that I was considering mostly Hyrule, but I'd say Fox is better on dreamland too probably, but yeah now that you put it that way, Kirby is probably better on all the remaining stages.

 

[ballin4life]

Yeah it's true I'm heavily basing this off Sensei and isai videos. But isn't the tier list supposed to represent mainly the peak of their metagame or peak of what human known potential is?

Well, if you're watching a Sensei or Isai video chances are they are way better than whoever they are playing and would own with any character.

If you put Sensei's Fox against Isai's Kirby I think you'd get different results.

 

[felipe_9595]

No way guys, youa re completly wrong. Fox is better than kirby, even if kirby is "Noob Friendly" fox is better.

I AM ok with DK, he is pretty good, but, wtf witht he top tiers, seriously, Fox >>> Kirby.

 

[Olikus]

IM not saying link isnt good on hyrule, but I feel peopel tend to forget that link has more flaws than his ****ty recovery. Ofc more room makes it more projectile friendly but its much easier to avoid his projectiles than say fox and marios. So he isnt THAT amasing on hyrule. He allso is garbage on the other stages so all in all, his not very good.

 

[Sangoku]

I find Link's projectiles harder to dodge than Mario's. I also find easier to touch my opponent with Link's projectiles than Mario's.

 

[felipe_9595]

Also, Luigi>Link. Link can barely get back to the satge and his combos are bad. Luigi have easy 0 to death combos and a great revoery (Even if his approach is bad is overal better than Link)

And GOD FOX>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> KIRBY

 

[JaimeHR]

Link can barely get back to the satge

That is, if you ever get Link out of the stage while trying to get through his projectile spam game, which is why Link on Hyrule is really strong against Luigi and probably has an even matchup on Dreamland and the other stages.

 

[NovaSmash]

I feel like we should ban Kirby after Apex. What do you guys think?

I hope you're joking. Kirby doesn't dominate online and offline smash 64 tourneys like metaknight did, prime example is how MATTS! has never won an online tournament. Kirby isn't even that hard to beat really. if u ban him u might as well ban pikachu, so no.

 

[Olikus]

I find Link's projectiles harder to dodge than Mario's. I also find easier to touch my opponent with Link's projectiles than Mario's.

Many caracther has several good options to avoid the bommerang without jumping away or shield. combine that with link slowness and you can pressure him and do big damage before he gets up the bomb show.

Maybe I havent played good marios enough but on hyrule his balls can be hard to stop if he spamming them while he jumps towards an arial on you. he can allso shot them so fast after each other that it makes a great pressure unlike link who have to wait for a boomerang cooldown or a hit.

 

[felipe_9595]

That is, if you ever get Link out of the stage while trying to get through his projectile spam game, which is why Link on Hyrule is really strong against Luigi and probably has an even matchup on Dreamland and the other stages.

You sayd it. On Hyrule. He is factible on onl1 stage.

 

[Battlecow]

I hope you're joking. Kirby doesn't dominate online and offline smash 64 tourneys like metaknight did, prime example is how MATTS! has never won an online tournament. Kirby isn't even that hard to beat really. if u ban him u might as well ban pikachu, so no.

No, I was totally serious. We should definitely ban the second-best character in the game Fter Apex because M2K plays him.

 

[felipe_9595]

hahahaha Battlecow won the thread XDDD

inb4diddygetsbannedbecauseisthenewM2kmain

 

[asianaussie]

felipe, you're making everyone confused, especially Battlecow.

A single dominant player using him well is definitely not the reason MK is being banned.

Not even gonna comment on your objections to the tier list until you back them up properly.

 

[felipe_9595]

lol asian o-o i am alughting with battlecow because m2k posted something pretty funny on the "Armada - The beast is unleashed" topic.

He sayd something like this (i am on a wii, i cant quote):

"The last time i used the Usa tag they rooted me the rest of the set, then they banned me from mlg, then from unity, then they banned the tactics i invented/use (Scrooging/Planking) and then they banned my character"

thats why the "After apex kirby must be baned because M2k main him" Joke xDDD

Also Fox>Kirby. Fox haves a sick combo potential, a fastfaller, amazing Aerial and ground game. A good Defensive and Offensive game. and the best projectile of the game.

 

[Kabutox]

Also Kirby>Fox. Kirby haves a sicker combo potential, a slowfaller, bestest Aerial and ground game. A better Defensive(utilt) and Offensive (utilt) game. and can powersteal the best projectiles of the game.

 

[felipe_9595]

Also Kirby>Fox. 1-Kirby haves a sicker combo potential, 2-a slowfaller, 3-bestest Aerial and ground game. 4- A better Defensive(utilt) and 5-Offensive (utilt) game. 6-and can powersteal the best projectiles of the game.

1- False. Fox haves assured 0 to Death combos, even with DI.
2- And??? He haves a worst approach than fox.
3- Half True. Half False. Kirby aerial game is better because he haves 5 JUmps, but only that. FOx still haves better aerial options than Kirby
4- One word. Lasers
5- Yep
6- Wut??? Durp Hurp Fox then is better because he can reflect them Duuuurp. Thats is not an argument.

 

[clubbadubba]

They are actually banning metaknight in brawl? This is news to me. Sounds dumb but wutever. Its funny that in the banning metaknight thread they say "the ban will be optional until after apex" as if TO's don't have any choice in the matter lol. Maybe brawl is super organized and ****, i dunno.

Also Kirby > fox. Kirby has one bad matchup in pikachu. Fox has bad matchups vs pika, kirby, and even falcon on some stages. Fox is kinda the sheik of 64, he ***** a lot of low tier characters like samus, link, and puff, but in direct matchups with the high tiers like pika, kirby, and falcon, he just isn't the best. I think 3rd is right where fox belongs.

 

[felipe_9595]

Also, i main kirby, thats why i think fox is better than kirby

 

[JaimeHR]

4- One word. Lasers.

Kirby laughs at Fox Double Lasers spam.

 

[felipe_9595]

Yeah it laughts. (Lulz Crouch you are ****ed now xD) but he cant approach if fox is doing that.

 

[JaimeHR]

Kirby can still approach, all he needs to do is move forward in between "waves" of Fox's Lasers, also the first shot during SHDL will never hit Kirby on the ground and if the second shot isn't lower enough he can just run through and punish Fox, C.Falcon can do this as well.

 

[Mew2King]

felipe, you're making everyone confused, especially Battlecow.

A single dominant player using him well is definitely not the reason MK is being banned.

Not even gonna comment on your objections to the tier list until you back them up properly.

in terms of what they will make public no, but in terms of what is REALLY going on... it's a LOT more than you think

but I don't wanna talk about that here

I guess I'll take your guys words that Kirby > Fox then. Anyone wanna give me random kirby tips and matchup tips? I barely know the game that well (don't fight good players often) but I know a lot of good things and I ***** the Canada tournament 2 months ago for 64 so I could probably pick things up fast if I just knew more.

There is probably random knowledge that I don't know

 

[asianaussie]

i don't have any stake in the mk debate aside from occasionally reading a ******** thread about it where shaya yells at the uninformed masses, or something like that

random kirby facts/opinions:

a crouching kirby is an extremely hard-to-approach kirby
kirby rock is a good edgeguard tool, especially on the left of hyrule
kirby f-tilt is his fastest tilt and isn't a bad move

 

[The Star King]

lol @ those tips, are you messing with him?

 

[felipe_9595]

Pivot Utilt are Kirby best approach weapon.

 

[asianaussie]

he wanted random stuff

almost every move in 64 is a good edgeguard move, so im not really wrong lol

 

[The Star King]

Not if they can be replaced with something better most of the time

Plus, I think we all know ftilt isn't faster than a certain other Kirby tilt... (unless you meant comes out faster?)

I don't really know what random
tips would be useful so I don't feel like bothering :3

 

[asianaussie]

it gets a hitbox out faster, so it IS true

with kirby you should just be as standard as possible, it's arguably the best way to play him

BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS BRING BACK QUICK-EDITS

 

[The Star King]

OK, if you just say that a move is faster, it seems like you're saying the entire of the duration of the move is faster, or at least to me. I would say a move has less start-up/ending lag, or that it comes out/ends faster.