Back Room Tier List Opinions

[ciaza]

I rolled with the assumption that aa isn't completely ********, so knew that he meant "fastest" in terms of coming out.

Kirby rock is a good edgeguarding tool, but only in the right situations on certain characters. e.g: a predictable DK recovery or a low recovering Yoshi to remove super armour.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

Also, i main kirby, thats why i think fox is better than kirby

Fox is better on Hyrule (In my opinion he is the best char on Hyrule)
Kirby is much better on Dreamland.
I don't know yet on Congo but probably Fox is a bit better.

 

[ballin4life]

Why would Fox be better on Congo?

Fox's laser game gets hurt a lot by the dip in the floor in Congo. Fox is OK camping the top platforms against some characters, but overall I like Dreamland better for Fox.

 

[The Star King]

I rolled with the assumption that aa isn't completely ********, so knew that he meant "fastest" in terms of coming out.

Kirby rock is a good edgeguarding tool, but only in the right situations on certain characters. e.g: a predictable DK recovery or a low recovering Yoshi to remove super armour.

Kirby's Stone is not good vs DK. Dair is likelier to hit through his invincible arms because it's multihit, and kills at any percent.

It could be vs Yoshi, but eh, sounds unreliable. Speaking of which, I've been meaning to test out an idea that I've had for months to gimp Yoshi with Kirby on Dreamland, where you jump off stage, swallow his jump facing the stage (which isn't hard if he's near the wall, beneath the edge), and spit him out under the stage. Sounds silly but I think it could work lol. I rarely play this match-up so I haven't gotten to try it out. Maybe next time I play Sheer.

 

[Mew2King]

How are you supposed to play with kirby on dreamland? stay above a lot?

any random tips?

 

[ciaza]

Dair may be better but that doesn't mean Rock is bad by any means.

Yoshi has enough vertical distance to get back to the stage even when spat under it, especially because after getting spit out you get upwards regardless.

The only cool gimp on Yoshi is to be Luigi and firepunch him as he is recovering.

 

[asianaussie]

Stone is particularly good vs Yoshi, yeah.

As for Kirby on Dreamland, make sure you never have to approach from below and you're sweet. From above is probably best.

 

[The Star King]

Dair may be better but that doesn't mean Rock is bad by any means.

Yoshi has enough vertical distance to get back to the stage even when spat under it, especially because after getting spit out you get upwards regardless.

The only cool gimp on Yoshi is to be Luigi and firepunch him as he is recovering.

Yes, but it's rendered obsolete.

No, I don't think so. Remember that hitting the ceiling stops Yoshi's jump, so you need to move sideways from under the stage first, getting lower and lower. In addition, Yoshi can't grab the ledge because he will be facing the other way (and you would probably be able to edgehog him anyways).

I tried it out a bit in training mode. and it looks like Yoshi is nowhere near being able to recover. I'm pretty sure this works. Wow, why am I making this match-up worse for Yoshi? I'm a jerk.

That Luigi gimp works at like 10%. Dumb, and not at all cool.

 

[ciaza]

I dunno, DK's invincibility on his arms can knock Kirby away before any more hits come out. Brick has invincibility frames of its own and so goes straight through, and since the DK carries horizontal momentum will sometimes move his vulnerable body hurtbox into the way of the falling brick.

With Yoshi, can't it start falling towards the outside of the stage, and once it's fair enough, then start its jump facing towards the ledge?

I preferred it when you called an edgehog 'hedgehog' btw =).

 

[asianaussie]

Yoshi most likely won't be able to recover from that situation no matter when he jumps, especially if Kirby Up-Bs and edgehogs quickly.

Pete's gonna be mad when I do this to him next we play.

 

[The Star King]

I'm pretty sure if you hit DK's invincible arms with the Stone you will be no longer able to hit him (think parrying with a single hit move - same type of hurt box), so Stone is still not better.

Not only is that hard to do, but Yoshi will be too low by then.

I blame auto-correct.

Cheeseball, stop posting before I do so that I have to quote ciaza. Bleh, not going to bother.

 

[asianaussie]

i live to interrupt discussion between actual good players

 

[ciaza]

Fair enough, who KNOWS, Kirby's brick might be that fabled move that can hit twice like Link's dair xD. This sentence started as a joke, but has anybody actually hit somebody twice with the same brick? o.o

Still not sure about Yoshi, I guess I'll go try it on Pete and see how we go

 

[The Star King]

Pretty sure it's impossible

My gimp could also work as a ledgehop, although that's obviously risky

Lol Kirby is king of trolls

If you want, I can post a video and you will be able to clearly see Yoshi is nowhere near being able to recover

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

I dunno, DK's invincibility on his arms can knock Kirby away before any more hits come out. Brick has invincibility frames of its own and so goes straight through, and since the DK carries horizontal momentum will sometimes move his vulnerable body hurtbox into the way of the falling brick.

You'd have to be a pretty ******** kirby to not edgeguard DK properly with dair.

 

[ciaza]

this is silly

this post will henceforth have no substance and consist only of a funny picture

it's extra funny for working on two levels

 

[Luco]

Hmm, Ness below Jiggs? Interesting...

Look at me talking when i can barely use his PKT2 anymore :-P

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

^^^No one can use his PkT2 correctly. It is like it doesn't even exist

All joking aside (but in many ways I am not joking,) Ness basically doesn't have range/is kinda predictable.

 

[Luco]

Doesn't that... Kinda go for jiggs as well? Her range is also very bad and you can usually tell what she's going to do...

Hmm, nah, i used to have a proficiency with it, no joke.

But I guess i can kinda see it.

 

[The Star King]

Yes but her recovery and punishment is better

Ness sucks

 

[Luco]

Ness sucks

Thats not a valid argument. It really isn't.

The rest of it is, though, and I kind of agree, but at the same time Jiggs can be heavily punished. Keep pushing her downward towards the abyss(with dairs usually) and eventually she just runs out of jumps no?

Also ness has the super intense dair...

Hmm....

 

[Peek~]

Thats not a valid argument. It really isn't.

We use "Ness sucks" because we(regulars) know why he isnt good and have explained 824545201 times why he isnt good to so many people already.

 

[Luco]

It's alright. I've heard a lot of it before. I just... Have different ideas.

 

[ciaza]

Ness is good if you know how to use him.

 

[asianaussie]

Ness is good if you know how to use him.

you should also tell us that the only broken item is hammer and that link is a good character because he's strong

 

[Luco]

Don't think i didn't notice what you did there. :-P

Link was fun to use though, I never got on with him as well as i should have in terms of gameplay though. I know that sounds like a juxtaposition but i mean it in the way that he was fun to use, but i couldn't get the hang of him as much as i would have liked.

 

[ciaza]

Is juxtaposition the word of the day or something?

 

[King Funk]

Killing DK is really all about spiking him directly from above. It's not that hard, especially with Kirby.

 

[Rubbish]

Unless you angle PKT2 so that you get no landing lag, you're almost always going to get thrown off the edge again.

 

[Fish641]

Is juxtaposition the word of the day or something?

I hope not, because the correct word would've been "contradiction."

 

[NixxxoN]

I think it's mainly for new players to competitive smash. They can have some information about the game.

They have some information about who is easiest to pick up and learn to get the easiest and lamest wins, and at the same time forget about the other chars... thats all the tier list does

So when your friend keeps blaming his losses on his ****ty character, you can in fact show him that kirby is high tier.

they dont care a bit if they lose, they just use any char they want at that moment, thats what i think people should do and not care so much about that

 

[Sangoku]

No because a tier list doesn't tell you witch char is lame at lower level of play.

 

[Mahie]

You know who voted for this list so you can pretty much assume what level of play it was made for.

Why isn't this official? Much more accurate than the icy's.

 

[Olikus]

im starting to think ness should be bottom tier with link, luigi and samus. I would say there is a bigger gap between ness and yoshi/DK than the bottom tiers.

 

[NixxxoN]

No because a tier list doesn't tell you witch char is lame at lower level of play.

what do you mean ?
kirby/pikachu are very good at almost every level. i mean cmon

 

[Sangoku]

No. It's not like the metagame is something linear from the beginning to the end. It's more like a pyramid: the top level of play is "one style" (doesn't mean one person's playstyle, but something like short hopping, z-canceling, combo, ...), but lower level of play is really broad. For example a grabby DK at lower level of play could really beat a Kirby or a Pikachu. Just like a Ness could beat anyone with spikes. Also the fact that kirby might be the easiest to pick up and that he is one of the top in the tier list is just a result of chance. The tier list does not give you who is easier to pick/lamer.

 

[NixxxoN]

In most cases, yes. Don't pick on singular cases, im talking in general terms... kirby and pikachu are usually good in pretty much every level... unlike some low tiers, who are usually not good in any level... but it depends on teh stage too
kirby, you cant deny that hes by far the easiest to pick up by nubs, and hes still great at high level. Well, nevermind the tier list, nubs will usually pick up kirby cuz he can fly

 

[dandan]

nubs pick link because he looks strong

 

[Sempiternity]

nubs pick link because he looks strong

can't forget about that sword!

 

[asianaussie]

pika is horrible at the B-move/smash only level

S
Kirby

A
Link
Falcon

B
Samus
Luigi
Yoshi

C
the rest

D
Jiggs