Q&A Aura Warriors, Discover & Master [READ BEFORE MAKING A THREAD]

First Question: Is this Q & A thread decent?

  • Yes.

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    75

Neiroa

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I'm new to learning how Lucario works. What are the bread and butter combos I should be using in general? Also, how do you cancel the charging aura into a usmash? Does Lucario have any kill throws (similar to what Ness has)?.
Check the awesome guide from Eeveecario: [here] .You can learn a lot, there is for example a combo an mix-up part.
Lucario can make nice combos with Fair and Uair (and easily at low %). And generaly you can start them from Up throw.

For the Up Smash, you need to cancel the charging aurasphere with shield, then cancel the shield with a jump, and then again cancel the jump with the Up smash. You need to do it very fast, the input when you are charging aurasphere are (with no tap jump) : Shield → Stick Up → Jump → A

Lucario don't have Kill Throws, but maybe sometime back throw can kill with high % aura and with the opponent with high % too
 
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Nah

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Sometimes I hear people say that Lucario has a +1 matchup against Shiek, and is the only character I've ever heard of who does better than even with Shiek in Smash 4 (other than random Kirby mains who are like "yo kirbs totes beats shiek cuz we can crouch under needlez" but **** that). I've never really heard anyone dispute the claim that Lucario goes +1 against Shiek when I hear it, but.....I've never heard anyone explain why either, so if this is indeed true, why does Lucario have a (slightly) favorable MU vs Shiek?
 

Sunnysunny

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Sometimes I hear people say that Lucario has a +1 matchup against Shiek, and is the only character I've ever heard of who does better than even with Shiek in Smash 4 (other than random Kirby mains who are like "yo kirbs totes beats shiek cuz we can crouch under needlez" but **** that). I've never really heard anyone dispute the claim that Lucario goes +1 against Shiek when I hear it, but.....I've never heard anyone explain why either, so if this is indeed true, why does Lucario have a (slightly) favorable MU vs Shiek?

Ooooh no.
That's a common misconception, but trust me, it ain't the case.

So, theee reason a few people believe Lucario does well against shiek is due to her lack of kill power. It's not uncommon that whilst fighting shiek's a good lucario will easily live up to 160% or even achieve max aura during there fight. Thanks to b-reversing, and the size of our aurasphere's increasing, we not only gain kill power, but also a lot of new tools to use against shiek in the nuetral, making her room for error VERY small if she can't land a KO somehow. I fight shiek's with the mentallity of "So long as it's not a KO move, i'm just getting stronger." and it works oddly enough.

Uhh
However.

I'd say against a REALLY good shiek, we do not do well. Taaake my word for it, i'm tied for best in the state of colorado based off of tourney results, the other player i'm tied with is ANOTHER lucario player coincidentally who secondaries shiek. LMAO. Good shiek's are far and few in the tourney scene. However, against those that are talented enough to get the most optimal punishes, space well, and play it patiently in the neutral, it's not so easy. We really don't have much in the way of answers to getting juggled. Are slow fall makes it somewhat difficult to land against shiek. We have some nifty tricks, like b-reversing, d-air stalling, and even on occassion extreme speeding into the ground, but it's still rather difficult to land against her. And in the neutral she of course does better then us until we have a load of aura.

Umm
However I wouldn't say we do bad.
I would say due to aura alone, and the fact that human error exists, it might even be kinda nuetral for us? Seriously. One mistake for shiek running into a b-reverse at high aura and it's curtains for her at as low as 50-60 percent. It's one of those odd cases where we live for so long that we can turn the game around on it's head at any given moment.

but yeah.
I wouldn't say it's in our favor. We lose the neutral for too long, and get juggled to easily, even if we do get more payoff then her off of hit confirms.
 
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Kami~

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A lucario will rarely live to 150 ish + against sheik because around 120% lucario, sheik will begin 50/50 guess mode with the dthrows. You can possibly even die before this to a bouncing fish offstage if you're read on a recovery. Lucario loses the neutral extremely hard and is floatier so fair's chain him pretty well. Only thing we have against sheik is sometimes they must respect Aura sphere but even then 1 needle can cancel any charging you wanted to do with it. Very bad mu at top level play and I can guess it could be negative around -1 and -2
 
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It takes a pretty hard read on the Sheik's part, but we need to be somewhat careful to not get our air dodges read and hit by Vanish or her fast falling to a USmash.

Some Sheiks will Bouncing Fish over an Aura Sphere on reaction, so be really careful when firing AS in neutral.
 

Kami~

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It takes a pretty hard read on the Sheik's part, but we need to be somewhat careful to not get our air dodges read and hit by Vanish or her fast falling to a USmash.

Some Sheiks will Bouncing Fish over an Aura Sphere on reaction, so be really careful when firing AS in neutral.
It DOES NOT take a hard read on the sheiks part. Her specialty is punishing airdodges and if you airdodge, upb will get you. That's the 50/50 game I was talking about but even aside from that, landing in general vs sheik while being floaty makes it very easy for her to punish airdodges
 

Steam

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With is the best way to deal with ness pressure? As they love to nair, fair and make us shield. We have any aereal that can beat their fair, nair and bair?
Nope. My solution is to just pick sheik, but you basically just have to completely respect certain moves as luc.
 

Loota

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If they're pressuring your shield, you're already in a bad position in which you'll just have to try to reset to neutral asap. Ness isn't that fast of a character so well timed rolls could should work or you could just jump/shorthop airdodge oos which we have good options out of. But yeah, you shouldn't usually be challenging his aerials with ours even if nair should beat out everything except his fair, trades aren't in our favour.

As for preventing them for coming to you, I usually dance just outside of his range and try to bait him to commit into sh aerials which you should usually be able to punish with quickly retreating and shooting AS. It doesn't really matter if he gets some of them absorbed but just remember to not to be too predictable with high aura FCAS or just resort to shooting smaller ones if you're afraid of him getting them absorbed.
 
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Kami~

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o i guess it could work if you know where he'll be landing or w/e

sorry for trying to correct you legendary loota...
 

Coro_

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Hey, sorry if this has been asked, but does Extreme Speed have any form of super armor or invincibility at all?
 

Masonomace

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Here's a self-answered Q&A for fun:

Q: Did you know that Mega Lucario drastically reduces the hard landing lag of ES, RTW, & ESA?
A: "No, but that's kinda neat!" / "Yes I did, it's pretty cool!" / "So what? It's not that helpful!"


Only aura sphere and Force palm flame
It could be me, but I felt some difference of range with N-air from the front. Actually. . .I could do a range test with Lucario's Aura. I'll work on that.

EDIT: I didn't do trip attacks, floor attacks, or throws, but I just tested tilts jab combo smashes and aerials. No increase, but at least the distance traveled with ES slightly helps. Though the hitbox doesn't increase. So yeah, AS and FP flame. This applies to the AS customs and the FP customs too.

Also, U-smash hits surprisingly high when Lucario's directly above someone.:crazy: Never noticed the maximum height it can reach.
 
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BoxedOccaBerrys

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HeyGuys

Any tips on the Olimar matchup? xo
I normally roll or spot dodge the pikmin when i fight olimar as lucario... or just shield his aerials...

but i have a question! wow its suprising!

what is the best approach option in the neutral game? i struggle with the neutral game,normally getting some duuuuuuuuuumb damage, like dancing blade or double edge dances from roy/marth respectively, getting hit by alot of stupid projectiles and items (I.E Gyros, Mecha-Koopas).
 
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Slythe

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I normally roll or spot dodge the pikmin when i fight olimar as lucario... or just shield his aerials...

but i have a question! wow its suprising!

what is the best approach option in the neutral game? i struggle with the neutral game,normally getting some duuuuuuuuuumb damage, like dancing blade or double edge dances from roy/marth respectively, getting hit by alot of stupid projectiles and items (I.E Gyros, Mecha-Koopas).
Depends who you're against, as always. At moderate/high aura AS will apply a lot of pressure to an opponent who lacks a strong projectile game (like Bowser Jr). Remember that AS at high percents will power through smaller projectiles, so you shouldn't fear cannons or mecha-koopas. I love seeing the cannon coming out; it's a sign to fire AS and rack up damage.

If you learn how to do it B-reversed ASC comes out of nowhere and combos well into JCUsmash. A useful tool for approaching with a kill setup.
 

BoxedOccaBerrys

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Aura Sphere pierces projectiles? wow. im also assuming JC means Jump Cancel.

And another PROBABLY stupid question, does he have any throw combos? since at low percents, ive noticed (no aura is what i mean) that D-Throw (depending on DI), can combo into Up-Tilts with 0 Aura.

I've also noticed his forward air is quick to come out and quick to end, does this have any amazing uses? since i just use it to approach and stop rush-down characters.
 

Slythe

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Aura Sphere pierces projectiles? wow. im also assuming JC means Jump Cancel.

And another PROBABLY stupid question, does he have any throw combos? since at low percents, ive noticed (no aura is what i mean) that D-Throw (depending on DI), can combo into Up-Tilts with 0 Aura.

I've also noticed his forward air is quick to come out and quick to end, does this have any amazing uses? since i just use it to approach and stop rush-down characters.
Yes, JC is jump cancel. Since ASC (aura sphere charge) causes hitstun, jump cancelling out of the animation and into an upsmash is very lethal. If you watch high level Lucario players you'll see them get ~50% of their kills using this move. Plenty of source material on youtube.

Upthrow gives you the most combo options. Upthrow -> nair works at low aura or against heavy characters. Upthrow -> nair also leads to mix-ups at higher aura/percents, like upthrow-> nair -> dair. Funny thing with Lucario, as your aura goes up your ability to true combo goes down. Nair is good though. Once you learn the hitbox, which is a little nonstandard, you'll start to find out why.

Fair is less useful. It comes relatively quick but it isn't even our fastest air move (dair), it doesn't have a lingering hitbox, and the endlag is annoying. Mostly useful for juggling larger characters (fair -> fair) and to push them off the stage, though nair or dair would be more damage if you can swing it. Short hop fair as a mixup is okay; aerials don't collide well/often/ever.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

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Is it just me, or this character really hard to use? And that's pretty strange, even for me... okay, I do admit I haven't touched a WiiU in ages (which, for me, is something, liek, a week) and all. But Lucario seemed really hard to use for the following reasons:

- His Jab kind of sucks...for anything other than a keep-away move.
Awright, I get it. Having have used Brawl Lucario and then this one, it seems like a whole world's difference, given it's end lag in Smash 4 (you could Jab Cancel it, in Brawl). There goes our ground game?

- He feels super slow, and this is coming from a Bowser main (not that he's exactly slow, but I'm sure you get it?).
Is this just me?

- Racking up damage, every tiny little percentage feels like you've earned it.

- Killing just feels super hard.
And, once again, even for me. A Bowser main, who's sort of used to making reads, his KO moves are either super slow or super hard to hit (seriously, how do I even Force Palm...?).

- Wait, an actual question!?
How do you, liek, do that B-Reverse thingy that actually sets up for kills? I've been trying it all night (well, sort of...), then I went to practice mode, and I simply couldn't get it right (either they didn't get stuck in the Aura Sphere long enough to B-Air or I had trouble recognizing the right position that would keep them in it). B-Reverse to U-Smash seems pretty straight forward, I'm mostly wondering about B-Air, like, does it actually combo? And would Force Palm combo?


Now, this isn't a post about me complaining about why I would make a sucky Lucario main by failing to grasp the character's concept. I'm just providing you with context so you know what my doubts are and so you could help me fix them and see if I'm wrong about it. When picking up Lucario, most people will obviously come for the beast RAGEAura shenanigans. I get it. It's actually something that I kept in mind, and didn't want to make it super obvious when I played (otherwise, you'd be killing the purpose).
 

Empire~

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- His Jab kind of sucks...for anything other than a keep-away move.
Awright, I get it. Having have used Brawl Lucario and then this one, it seems like a whole world's difference, given it's end lag in Smash 4 (you could Jab Cancel it, in Brawl). There goes our ground game?
Jab is bad. Don't use it very often.

- He feels super slow, and this is coming from a Bowser main (not that he's exactly slow, but I'm sure you get it?).
Is this just me?
The blue dog has bad run speed and average air speed: http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Lucario

- Killing just feels super hard.
And, once again, even for me. A Bowser main, who's sort of used to making reads, his KO moves are either super slow or super hard to hit (seriously, how do I even Force Palm...?).
Killing's actually the easy bit. Lucario's got a bunch of kills setups (usually involving aura-sphere charge) that you just need to practice. ie asc -> bair or jc upsmash, or sh dair -> fp

- Wait, an actual question!?
How do you, liek, do that B-Reverse thingy that actually sets up for kills? I've been trying it all night (well, sort of...), then I went to practice mode, and I simply couldn't get it right (either they didn't get stuck in the Aura Sphere long enough to B-Air or I had trouble recognizing the right position that would keep them in it). B-Reverse to U-Smash seems pretty straight forward, I'm mostly wondering about B-Air, like, does it actually combo? And would Force Palm combo?
You'll hit the upsmash the most consistently when you're charging aura sphere right on top of them - they should be in the middle on the charge. It does depend, however, on weight - ie, heavier characters give a bit more leeway.

Yes, asc -> bair is a true combo if the opponent di's up and away/try to jump out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut5Q0Dn-pXg
 

Nysyr

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That's what an actual Wavebounce looks like. Its a Reverse B + B Reverse; basically initiating an AS charge while holding the stick halfway between a neutral B and a Side B, and then the standard B Reverse.

Reverse B is far more difficult than B Reverse just due to the precision it requires; I personally can't do it with any sort of consistency on the 3ds.
 

smbmaster99MFGG

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Anyone got some good advice for recovering/landing when against Ness players who like to juggle with PK Thunder? I've found air dodging doesn't do diddly squat once they start chasing you with it through the air :V
 
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BoxedOccaBerrys

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Is there any use for racking up damage while charging an aura sphere, as in trapping them within the charge? is this useful for anything at all? or is it kind of useless?

edit for the PK thunder question: Extreme-Speed straight down so you bounce and the ending lag is canceled works well, or using Double Team (his counter) can allow you to move left or right quickly so its harder to chase you. or plain airdodging at unexpected times works.
 
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Eeveecario

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Anyone got some good advice for recovering/landing when against Ness players who like to juggle with PK Thunder? I've found air dodging doesn't do diddly squat once they start chasing you with it through the air :V
If you're on stage, try ES to ground as quick as possible (Not directly to Ness, tho. But if you have enough aura. go ahead, you might be able to punish him). I believe PK Thunder ball will always angle you towards Ness, so you can DI properly.The best thing you can do IMO is cooperate/challenge it with a fair. If you're gonna get hit, cooperate and DI, Air-dodge to it (he'll need more time to make the curve), or if you have angle, Fair/Nair/Dair it.

If you're offstage, keen in mind that Ness will/should guard the edge with his PK Thunder Ball. Most of them will not chase you offstage with it because, if you recover faster than they do. They'll be open for a punish. Also I'd recommend you to curve your ES to make yourself harder to read or gain some extra time to make the PK Thunder travel away from the edge (Or go straight to Ness and tackle him ( 'w') ). Get ready to tech if you get hit!
 
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