Q&A Aura Warriors, Discover & Master [READ BEFORE MAKING A THREAD]

First Question: Is this Q & A thread decent?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 35 46.7%
  • No.

    Votes: 3 4.0%
  • Definitely!

    Votes: 23 30.7%
  • I guess.

    Votes: 14 18.7%

  • Total voters
    75

Cøllin_

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Probably floating around here somewhere, but my friends are curious on how easy is it to mash out of Force Palm grab? As in humanly possible, of course. I read in the Patch 1.1.1 thread that it's now possible to mash out. Any details on that?
 

Space thing

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Probably floating around here somewhere, but my friends are curious on how easy is it to mash out of Force Palm grab? As in humanly possible, of course. I read in the Patch 1.1.1 thread that it's now possible to mash out. Any details on that?
It's been possible since the game came out (since brawl even). Idk how easy it is. It's like, almost never happened to me. If it's basically as easy as it was in brawl (and it probably is), then it's very possible at early percents, but probably not reasonable at later percents (past 40-60% or so). Don't expect to break out if you don't see it coming, if you do, start mashing early and it's probably not that hard (haven't tested in this game so take my word with a grain of salt).
 

Eeveecario

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It is possible to escape, but it's really a tight window to do so.

you can only escape if you can see it coming at low~mid%, after that, it's impossible because there isn't enough time to wiggle out. I can't really tell a precise number, but I believe you have like 12 frames to escape.

EDIT: Got the precise number, is 15 frames to escape
 
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Lange

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Hey guys,

After alot of struggle i've had a lot of trouble wavebouncing. B reverse was the same way but I finally understood the mechanics of it and got it, I can't do it 100% yet but at least a decent amount of the time. Wavebounce is another animal though. I've watched the my smash corner video a bunch of times trying to understand and see the guys hands to no avail. I slow to 1/4 in training mode and gotten it a couple times before but not even a hint of consistency.

To look at what im doing to get help i've been either wavebounce FP or FP or getting a short sphere charge in one direction. I've been flicking the stick back to neutral for a turnaround B then flicking opposite way and holding it but my timing is off. The window seems so short. Any insight be appreciated, this is gamecube controller.
 

Masonomace

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Lange Lange I've added FAQs to the OP, & it just so happens that your question is a question that's frequently asked. Check it out if you haven't already & reply back if you still haven't gotten it down. :shades:
 
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Masonomace

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Can someone tell me exactly how to do aura cancel upsmash and back air and when they work? thanks
If you set Tap jump to off:
  1. proceed to press B to aura sphere charge
  2. hold up on your joystick for the up smash, or sideways for the back air
  3. tap your shield trigger & then press X to jump followed by pressing A to input the jump canceled up smash
    tap your shield trigger & then press X & hold your joystick to the side while inputting A or flick the c-stick to Back air
If you have Tap jump on:
  1. proceed to press B to aura sphere
  2. tap your shield trigger & press up on your joystick for the up smash, or tap up & rotate your joystick sideways for the back air
  3. press A after tapping up on the joystick to input the jump canceled up smash
    press A or flick the c-stick after tapping up & rotating on the stick to input a Back air
---
Aura sphere charge into jump canceled up smash is usually a bread-n-butter combo at a wide percentage range, but Back air out of asc varies because they have to be di'ing away & they may likely jump away in order to escape it. Just read their movement by how they're di'ing out of your sphere so that you know whether to Back air or JCUsmash
 
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Masonomace

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Short explanation: I'm getting a bit burned out on Doubles at my locals using only Shulk. Although, I like playing Lucario & other characters too, but Lucario's more fun to play lately, & I have a good reason / motive as to why I do. So my question is:

Q: If I'm playing Lucario in Doubles, & I SD twice before actually fighting, is it worth having Aura that powerful very early on? What are your thoughts on this, or perhaps I should SD once, or not SD at all?

I just wanna say that for doing the SD twice strategy to get Anubiscario rolling, it's been super fun & effective for me when I'm playing it right. But again, I wanna hear your opinions & experiences with it. Personally, killing off of a ASC > JCUsmash can kill the average character around the 30 - 50% range, which I find hilarious & exciting that I deliver that much destruction.:shades:
 
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Croi

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imo Lucario isn't much better in doubles than Shulk. Don't just straight-up SD, you wouldn't do that in singles, why would you do that in doubles? Coordinate with your partner if you want to do the Anubis strategy.
 

Masonomace

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imo Lucario isn't much better in doubles than Shulk. Don't just straight-up SD, you wouldn't do that in singles, why would you do that in doubles? Coordinate with your partner if you want to do the Anubis strategy.
I feel you. I can choose to stock tank hard, or well, play the role of what's needed since Monado arts are great like that. As for Lucario, the SDs in the beginning really can hurt more than help if I'm playing sloppy, but I like doing it a lot lately since the Aura is nonsense. I really wanted to find a good synergy with someone at my locals for tomorrow such as Ness Lucas or Villager since they could either heal a ton from their PSI Magnets, or pocket AS to potentially OHKO someone I grab or throw to their front.

Aura Sphere & Force Palm become stupid good, to the point that Anubiscario's AS is so large that even some characters ledge dropping away or down still get hit by the ASC, which basically means all of their ledge options get beaten. Anyway, I wanna share a video of me & a friend trying it online. At 0:30 into the video, you hear the sound Aura Sphere makes, & I can only get my Aura Sphere to make that sound when I'm around 140% on even stocks. Getting that around 14% on my last stock terrifies me, but that lets me know that I have a badass projectile.
Link = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5QTZM9xwyU
 

Croi

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As for Lucario, the SDs in the beginning really can hurt more than help if I'm playing sloppy, but I like doing it a lot lately since the Aura is nonsense.
To be honest, what's nonsense is this mindset.

If you play singles normally, but you lose the stock first, you have done damage, making it easier to get the KO in your next stock (and since you have no percentage, this is an uphill battle from the start)

If you play singles normally, and your opponents loses the stock first, hooray, you're winning!

If you play singles, and you SD right off the bat, now you're a stock behind and your opponent has taken no damage whatsoever.

Apply these to doubles and you can see why SDing at the start of a match is a bad, terrible, awful idea. There being more stocks to burn in doubles excuses nothing.
 
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For a good Anubis strat the Lucario will need to go ham while your partner avoids getting hurt and can get you out of a bind. Villager comes to mind if you want them to unleash a giant Aura Sphere from a 4 frame Pocket as well.

Go for Snaring if customs are allowed with a Villager partner. It kills hilariously low from a Pocket.
 

Masonomace

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To be honest, what's nonsense is this mindset.

If you play singles normally, but you lose the stock first, you have done damage, making it easier to get the KO in your next stock (and since you have no percentage, this is an uphill battle from the start)

If you play singles normally, and your opponents loses the stock first, hooray, you're winning!

If you play singles, and you SD right off the bat, now you're a stock behind and your opponent has taken no damage whatsoever.

Apply these to doubles and you can see why SDing at the start of a match is a bad, terrible, awful idea. There being more stocks to burn in doubles excuses nothing.
In Singles format, the mindset behind using Anubiscario is nonsense yes. It's obviously a bad idea. However, in Doubles it's not that bad of an idea to exploit Aura to this extent because you kill most of the cast at very early percentages. You steamroll while your partner complimenting Anubis enforces the strategy even more.

Ultimately I'm not trying to advocate this as a recommended suggestion. We could get Aura naturally from playing out the match normally & get a strong boost of AuRage, it's just a thought is all.
For a good Anubis strat the Lucario will need to go ham while your partner avoids getting hurt and can get you out of a bind. Villager comes to mind if you want them to unleash a giant Aura Sphere from a 4 frame Pocket as well.

Go for Snaring if customs are allowed with a Villager partner. It kills hilariously low from a Pocket.
Definitely. I'm really thinking of teaming with a Villager since my area doesn't have any good Lucas or Ness players that I'm aware of. The idea of a pocketed Anubiscario AS easily breaks shields if not killing at fraudulent percentages which sounds more appealing than healing PSI Magnet. Unfortunately, my locals banned Custom Specials about a couple weeks ago, so RIP Pocketed Mahvel Sphere.
what a finish to that match
I got more matches if you wanna see. I'll upload them sometime soon.
 

Krysco

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Greetings Lucarios! I've been asking a question along the lines of 'is this good or bad for this character?' on certain character Q&A threads but thankfully I don't have to ask that exact question on here since I know this is bad! Normally, when a directional recovery is used horizontally on the ground you end up with the moves grounded endlag. However, on DL64 you end airborne and therefore suffer the aerial endlag along with landing lag which for Lucario is atrocious. Instead of asking the usual 'is this good or bad' I'll instead ask HOW bad is this? What's the frame difference and does it matter? Even with the custom Extreme Speed, I don't recall ever seeing it used as an offensive tool. Is there any reason a Lucario would or should use his up special horizontally while on the ground?
 

King_Spycrab

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In the last few seconds of the video, I side-B command grab Falco, and it clinks with... nothing, really. He said that the Falco could have mashed out, but that would only be if I had low aura, and I was at 66%. Ideas?
 
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Empire~

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Pretty sure that's just a mash out. Your opponent's % matters more than your own, and the fact that Falco was at 0 makes me inclined to believe this was a mash.
 

Croi

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Yeah, what Empire said. Force Palm is a grab, and like most grabs, you can mash out of it if you're fast enough and your percentage is low.
 
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Nesh

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Is there any streamers who often play lucario? Or am I just better off watching lucario youtube videos?
 

Masonomace

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Greetings Lucarios! I've been asking a question along the lines of 'is this good or bad for this character?' on certain character Q&A threads but thankfully I don't have to ask that exact question on here since I know this is bad! Normally, when a directional recovery is used horizontally on the ground you end up with the moves grounded endlag. However, on DL64 you end airborne and therefore suffer the aerial endlag along with landing lag which for Lucario is atrocious. Instead of asking the usual 'is this good or bad' I'll instead ask HOW bad is this? What's the frame difference and does it matter? Even with the custom Extreme Speed, I don't recall ever seeing it used as an offensive tool. Is there any reason a Lucario would or should use his up special horizontally while on the ground?
It's terribad. The grounded endlag is about 20 frames & the airborne endlag is around 60 frames, but still, you shouldn't be using Extremespeed on the ground much at all. The remedy for avoiding the airborne landing is aiming the joystick diagonally down towards the floor so that Lucario suffers the minimal amount of lag, but there's really no safe or good reason you'd want to suffer the horrible endlag. Although, players unaware of Lucario's hurtbox being so low to the floor will be caught by surprise when they attempt to grab or use a forward tilt not angled & realize their move whiffs Lucario. A player aware of this however can just accordingly punish it with a pivot grab or a reliably strong hitbox.
The social, I guess?
Right on then, will do.
 
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Masonomace

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Explanation: I want to find out the exact damage required to cause Shulk's Vision counter apply the move's damage instead of its own base damage. So I want to use Lucario's Aura mechanic & help find my answers.

Question: What's the exact damage that Lucario's Fair deals when he's at 74% & at 75%?

I know that Lucario's baseline Aura is 70% for his Fair to deal exactly 6%. Lucario's at 74% & 75% inputting Fair deals ~6%, but obviously decimals are at work here. When I have Lucario at 74% inputting Fair against Shulk's Vision counter, he deals the base 10% damage to Lucario. However, once Lucario's at 75% & inputs Fair against Shulk's Vision counter, Shulk deals ~8%.
 
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Explanation: I want to find out the exact damage required to cause Shulk's Vision counter apply the move's damage instead of its own base damage. So I want to use Lucario's Aura mechanic & help find my answers.

Question: What's the exact damage that Lucario's Fair deals when he's at 74% & at 75%?

I know that Lucario's baseline Aura is 70% for his Fair to deal exactly 6%. Lucario's at 74% & 75% inputting Fair deals ~6%, but obviously decimals are at work here. When I have Lucario at 74% inputting Fair against Shulk's Vision counter, he deals the base 10% damage to Lucario. However, once Lucario's at 75% & inputs Fair against Shulk's Vision counter, Shulk deals ~8%.
(7/12)*(Lucario damage)+355/6 formula courtesy of KuroGaneHammer when Luc is above 70%. Sooooo...

Modifier Percent FAIR
100.5833333333 71 6.035
101.1666666667 72 6.07
101.75 73 6.105
102.3333333333 74 6.14
102.9166666667 75 6.175
103.5 76 6.21
104.0833333333 77 6.245
104.6666666667 78 6.28
105.25 79 6.315
105.8333333333 80 6.35
106.4166666667 81 6.385
107 82 6.42
107.5833333333 83 6.455
108.1666666667 84 6.49
108.75 85 6.525
109.3333333333 86 6.56
109.9166666667 87 6.595
110.5 88 6.63
111.0833333333 89 6.665
111.6666666667 90 6.7
112.25 91 6.735
112.8333333333 92 6.77
113.4166666667 93 6.805
114 94 6.84
114.5833333333 95 6.875
115.1666666667 96 6.91
115.75 97 6.945
116.3333333333 98 6.98
116.9166666667 99 7.015
117.5 100 7.05
118.0833333333 101 7.085
118.6666666667 102 7.12
119.25 103 7.155
119.8333333333 104 7.19
120.4166666667 105 7.225
121 106 7.26
121.5833333333 107 7.295
122.1666666667 108 7.33
122.75 109 7.365
123.3333333333 110 7.4
123.9166666667 111 7.435
124.5 112 7.47
125.0833333333 113 7.505
125.6666666667 114 7.54
126.25 115 7.575
126.8333333333 116 7.61
127.4166666667 117 7.645
128 118 7.68
128.5833333333 119 7.715
129.1666666667 120 7.75
129.75 121 7.785
130.3333333333 122 7.82
130.9166666667 123 7.855
131.5 124 7.89
132.0833333333 125 7.925
132.6666666667 126 7.96
133.25 127 7.995
133.8333333333 128 8.03
134.4166666667 129 8.065
135 130 8.1
135.5833333333 131 8.135
136.1666666667 132 8.17
136.75 133 8.205
137.3333333333 134 8.24
137.9166666667 135 8.275
138.5 136 8.31
139.0833333333 137 8.345
139.6666666667 138 8.38
140.25 139 8.415
140.8333333333 140 8.45
141.4166666667 141 8.485
142 142 8.52
142.5833333333 143 8.555
143.1666666667 144 8.59
143.75 145 8.625
144.3333333333 146 8.66
144.9166666667 147 8.695
145.5 148 8.73
146.0833333333 149 8.765
146.6666666667 150 8.8
147.25 151 8.835
147.8333333333 152 8.87
148.4166666667 153 8.905
149 154 8.94
149.5833333333 155 8.975
150.1666666667 156 9.01
150.75 157 9.045
151.3333333333 158 9.08
151.9166666667 159 9.115
152.5 160 9.15
153.0833333333 161 9.185
153.6666666667 162 9.22
154.25 163 9.255
154.8333333333 164 9.29
155.4166666667 165 9.325
156 166 9.36
156.5833333333 167 9.395
157.1666666667 168 9.43
157.75 169 9.465
158.3333333333 170 9.5
158.9166666667 171 9.535
159.5 172 9.57
160.0833333333 173 9.605
160.6666666667 174 9.64
161.25 175 9.675
161.8333333333 176 9.71
162.4166666667 177 9.745
163 178 9.78
163.5833333333 179 9.815
164.1666666667 180 9.85
164.75 181 9.885
165.3333333333 182 9.92
165.9166666667 183 9.955
166.5 184 9.99
167.0833333333 185 10.025
167.6666666667 186 10.06
168.25 187 10.095
168.8333333333 188 10.13
169.4166666667 189 10.165
170 190 10.2
 

Triburos

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That's what an actual Wavebounce looks like. Its a Reverse B + B Reverse; basically initiating an AS charge while holding the stick halfway between a neutral B and a Side B, and then the standard B Reverse.

Reverse B is far more difficult than B Reverse just due to the precision it requires; I personally can't do it with any sort of consistency on the 3ds.
I know I'm late here, but I just wanted to try to help yah out as I can get it somewhat consistantly now in training. But in an actual match where your nerves are shooting off, might be a different story.

Anywho, give this exercise a go if you havn't already;

Begin a full jump and keep holding either left or right depending on which direction your facing so you can get some aeriel momentum. At the peak of your jump is where you want to execute the Wavebounce, and here's my mindset for it;

I purposely try to manually return the stick to neutral to initiate the Wavebounce. Why? Because human error will usually be off by just a smidge in the opposite direction, which can result in putting you in that half-side, half-neutral state.

Once you do the 'manual-return-to-neutral', hit B, and then immediately flick the stick in the same direction you were facing it as you were doing the jump. It's pretty fast over-all. I'd say all three steps from manual neutral, to b, to flicking the stick forward again is under a fraction of a second.


Doing a full jump isn't necessary, but it gives your brain a little extra time to set it up. I'm sure it can be worked down to short-hops eventually.

I have no clue if this will help you, but I hope so. After a few tests, I can get it down at normal game speed now with about 70% consistency. And just to confirm, yes; I'm on 3DS too. Wish yah the best of luck
 
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Masonomace

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(7/12)*(Lucario damage)+355/6 formula courtesy of KuroGaneHammer when Luc is above 70%. Sooooo...
snip
Yo MTI thanks to the max! This was super helpful. It almost made me want to figure out Baby Aura Sphere's exact damage when Lucario's at his Baseline 70%. However, I did not get motivated enough & wrote it off as "it deals around ~6.9%".
 
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Yo MTI thanks to the max! This was super helpful. It almost made me want to figure out Baby Aura Sphere's exact damage when Lucario's at his Baseline 70%. However, I did not get motivated enough & wrote it off as "it deals around ~6.9%".
Yeah, worth noting I quoted Kuro's formulas at the top of my post in the Aura Damage Chart thread. If I do decide to try to figure it all out... I'm going to probably be religiously using the formulas and checking it against the Aura Chart.
 

Saltix

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Can I get an breakdown on Extremespeed's C-Stick influence? If it still exists in this game.

Also in brawl, I used to ES from on the stage to the ledge, is that still practical in this game?
 
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Masonomace

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Can I get an breakdown on Extremespeed in this game? I already know it hits after frame 46, that it goes further with more aura, that it can kill, and you can control which direction you send people after it hits.

I am just more concerned with actually controlling the move. IIRC there's a bit of C-Stick influence that goes along with it, and I want to begin to incorporate it. Also in brawl, I used to ES from on the stage to the ledge, is that still practical in this game?
Breakdown: ES is terrible for it's clinging utility unless you are going straight ahead or a slightly curved arch towards a wall surface on Omegas or Duck Hunt. There is a bit of C-Stick guidance to it like there was in Brawl, but I feel like there's not as much influence to it's direction. And finally, yes you can still edgehog with ES from standing on the stage. However, you can only do this on the left ledge of every stage for some strange reason.
 

Triburos

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Can I get an breakdown on Extremespeed in this game? I already know it hits after frame 46, that it goes further with more aura, that it can kill, and you can control which direction you send people after it hits.

I am just more concerned with actually controlling the move. IIRC there's a bit of C-Stick influence that goes along with it, and I want to begin to incorporate it. Also in brawl, I used to ES from on the stage to the ledge, is that still practical in this game?
Heya, 3DS player here so I can't say much about C-stick interaction.

But, yeah controlling the move can be a pain in the butt sometimes. It's awkward how when if you want to say... Go straight up then to the left, like an upside down L, it's not as simple as just launching up, then holding left.

If you continue holding left, you'll do more of an upside down U instead. It's not fun.

As for ES to the ledge, it's defo possible, but risky. It's also pretty picky as to when it wants to snap to the ledge. But if you make sure to hold in the direction of the ledge at the very end of ES as you fly to it, you should glide somewhat gently off the ledge, go into helpless fall for a second, then grab the ledge. I seem to get this more often than a super quick snap, but it gets the job done.

Breakdown: ES is terrible for it's clinging utility unless you are going straight ahead or a slightly curved arch towards a wall surface on Omegas or Duck Hunt. There is a bit of C-Stick guidance to it like there was in Brawl, but I feel like there's not as much influence to it's direction. And finally, yes you can still edgehog with ES from standing on the stage. However, you can only do this on the left ledge of every stage for some strange reason.
Holy ****, really?

I thought that was just a placebo I was experiencing from being terrible at guiding it.
 
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Karnu

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Im wondering how is the lucario vs pikachu match up. I think lucario wins the match up but i want a lucario mains perspective.
Im not a fan. I personally think Pikachu wins. I haven't really had much MU experience but I find it really hard to hit him and get a killing hit on him being so small and nimble.
 
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Lomogoto

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How do people here like to aproach with lucario when agresion is called for? Ive used reverse aura sphere when theyre shielding; short hop fair followed by landing nair to claim space, not particularly intending to connect either attack; spaced bair when ive got them scared; and dash attack (more of a bad habbit but occasionally called for), but Im wondering if anyone has any other options or ideas worth mentioning?

Also i have trouble getting people off me once theyre in, any pointers on this front would be welcome!
 
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