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ATTN: i cant beat top level space animals

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Plairnkk

Smash Legend
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
i just cant. i never have been able to. should i just learn to tech chase better?

its really rough, i feel like i get hit and im guaranteed 50% dmg.

ill post vids if they go up of me getting *****, i need help. :(



i mean like REALLY good spacies, not just the average joe, im obviously good enough to hold my own but the top foxes, i feel like im just at such a disadvantage, gah
 
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Plairnkk

Smash Legend
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Jan 18, 2006
Messages
10,243
the thing is a higher % of the game is on the stage than off the stage. i gimp very well, but my on stage fighting isnt good enough. thats the help i need.
 
Ministry

Ministry

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Oct 13, 2009
Messages
616
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plank you should be getting around 70% a grab agasint spacies, if you tech chase on reaction it doesnt matter if its mango, there still going to take the dmg. when your ending a combo make sure you maximize the amount of hits you do before you send them offstage with a fair.

eg. at 70% u can uptilt to fair and end the combo, or u can add in upairs or dairs to maximize there % so that the knockback from teh fair is really hard to recover from. ending combos to early is a common mistake. sometimes they DI away so your sh fair will miss from a ftilt. a good option that not a lot of sheiks do is run and Dtilt. that way you can continue the combo with an upsmash or more tilts and not letting them get away.

i assume you know most of this but im just trying to give you ideas
 
xbombr

xbombr

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Plairnkk said:
the thing is a higher % of the game is on the stage than off the stage. i gimp very well, but my on stage fighting isnt good enough. thats the help i need.
Click to expand...
Yeah then focus on your tech chasing. If you can get the grab, it should = lots of damage. Try to get at least past that magic 40% mark, but you definitely want to go further and really should if you can obviously. You should also try to play to your strengths though. If you've got a good gimp game, try to get them offstage asap.

I kinda feel like the whole point of Sheik's character is to just run around and be as gay as possible until you can get them offstage and then screw up their recovery. It's not really about FAiring them out of the side of the screen 4 stocks or something. Without gimps this match up is definitely in the spacies favor, imo.

It sounds kinda unreasonable to say that every time you get a grab it should lead to a stock, but since top level players make very minimal mistakes, you have to punish those mistakes as hard as possible. I was pretty amazed at some of the pound 4 videos like Zhu vs. Darkrain where one mistake led to a stock and if it didn't then they lost a stock for not executing properly. Competition is that tight now and to compete with a top level player you have to be able to play on their level where 1-2 mistakes = stock (unless it's a floaty battle, neither characters have great offense, or something similar).
 
Lawrencelot

Lawrencelot

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Jun 18, 2006
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I didn't test this out but it's an idea: don't focus on dealing damage, focus on not getting damage and moving the fight to the edge and getting them offstage. Of course, dealing damage makes getting them offstage easier, but it shouldn't be your main focus.
 
Teczer0

Teczer0

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Well... vs Spacies you don't really have to option to control the flow of the game so heavily.

Like Plank said very high level spacie players are more or less able to force you to attack so learning how to actually fight does become a very big factor.

I need to learn too >_> I went sheik in my last tournament and lost to every high level Fox with sheik.....

Thankfully I DO have a fox too =3

Basically we all have to learn to play more like Amsah and less like m2k LMAO
 
Devil Ray

Devil Ray

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whenever i think spacies wreck sheik, i think of captain falcon's situation. cap gets combo-*****, HAS to tech chase, must combo into a fair, and edgeguard....and he still puts up a good fight. if anything, sheik is underrated against spacies
 
Teczer0

Teczer0

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Ok, **** both of you guys. :mad:

K, now...

So m2k how do you abuse your range? I always try to space myself so I'm about a SH nair away from Fox and get ready to like ftilt but it rarely ever works. I need a safer approach to it. >_>

****er is just too fast. =(
 
N

Nihonjin

Striving 4 Perfection
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Ministry said:
amsah is just better at tech chasing with upthrow, good old pal
Click to expand...
It has nothing to do with the throw, I don't tech chase regrab because it's boring..:embarrass
I can do it perfectly though if I set my mind to it..(but because I usually don't need to resort to tech abuse I forget about it when I do..=D)

Teczero said:
Ok, **** both of you guys. :mad:

K, now...

So m2k how do you abuse your range?
Click to expand...
By fighting backwards..
 
Teczer0

Teczer0

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Gah maybe I'm just silly.

I dunno all the stuff you guys say is pretty obvious to me.

... Whatever maybe I'll just try playing sheik more instead of playing fox.

Maybe I'll see my mistakes better that way *shrugs*
 
Devil Ray

Devil Ray

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hmm, i would say for falcon that'd be a lot easier but tech chasing can get hard under pressure.

btw, f-tilt after fair is a HORRIBLE idea against a shielding falco....******'ing kels just shines the **** out if you're even remotely close. jab is incredible tho. you can cancel it and get a grab out of it maybe 50% of the time. and i'm reasonably sure spacies can't shine you when you're jabbing them cuz it's so disjointed
 
AlcyoNite

AlcyoNite

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so is it that u use ur aerials to snuff their aerials ie u call when they will approach or do u box out space so they basically cant approach?

and by doing this are u looking to gain percent or limit their options to the point where they give u grabs?

edit: and i would love to see amsah do some crazy pal style tech chasing
 
Diakonos

Diakonos

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Apr 22, 2009
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I'm feeling you, plank.

I can't see why you shouldn't be able to beat Falco. Learn to powershield, learn to nair out of shield, and be careful not to get crouch-cancelled at low percentages. I know you're probably like "lol wtf wats a canadian marth main telling me about sheik", but I have a lot of experience against a good falco. When Falco is shooting lasers at you, waveland onto a platform above you, and run off fair. It'll put you in a position to nair out of shield, to grab, or to wavedash back and repeat. Don't be afraid to fight lasers with needles, much like m2k does. Nair with confidence.

I don't know what to do against high level foxes though. I feel like I'm too defensive against them, and I end up getting grabbed. I don't know what to do out of WD of shield. I don't know how to approach. I turn my back to foxes and I bair, but they get through it-- the hitbox is too high. And I don't know when to dsmash effectively against Fox. Any tips?
 
painlord k11

painlord k11

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for down smash tips just watch drephen vids on youtube lol. Diakonos i love how when you get up throwed as marth by fox and you just use B side and it stops them from using up air =D
 
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Plairnkk

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ive been playing a lot the past week and learned a lot more. a lot more spacing with bair/patience is good+i have to get better at tech chasing.

lots more sh fairs and shield pressure is really good too on fox, especially cuz if u pop them with a good one the trajectory is so intense sometimes
 
AlcyoNite

AlcyoNite

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Plairnkk said:
ive been playing a lot the past week and learned a lot more. a lot more spacing with bair/patience is good+i have to get better at tech chasing.

lots more sh fairs and shield pressure is really good too on fox, especially cuz if u pop them with a good one the trajectory is so intense sometimes
Click to expand...
can u describe how uve decided to implement more patience?
 
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Plairnkk

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well more like zoning. not actually attacking but getting close and baiting, like space animals do. i just run in and dash attack or run in and grab too much, but whiffs are too costly
 
AlcyoNite

AlcyoNite

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Plairnkk said:
well more like zoning. not actually attacking but getting close and baiting, like space animals do. i just run in and dash attack or run in and grab too much, but whiffs are too costly
Click to expand...
so might u say that it is hardly ever better to commit to an approach, maybe just box out space until u force an error?
 
AlcyoNite

AlcyoNite

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Plairnkk said:
it depends, mainly for fox i think that is a good idea.
Click to expand...
ok ill try it out if u say so

then when the fox catches on to what ur doing just shoot needles from far away until u think the fox will commit

this sounds great but idk y amsah is now saying he gets beat by zgetto

not promising for this matchup
 
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