Atlantic North Melee Circuit - Third Event TBD...

[pockyD]

because of peoples partners, its very complicated.

I don't see how that's complicated. Why wouldn't a team qualify together?

im with jfox on this now. screw the tournament thats only anmc final, raise extra money, and guarantee a giant prize pool, because that amount of money will be there lol. we still have the 10%s being taken out for the anmc pot, i get a lil here and there from my biweeklies, and i think i might get extra money from my CoT tourneys (even if they are not circuit events).

Probably kind of shady to the people who went out of their way to go to the first tournament with the expectation that the "points" they acquired there would go towards a reward for them

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

I think you're thinking about it too much, Chibo. What exactly makes it complicated again?

 

[Pakman]

You should make this a poll. What should we do with ANMC fund:

1.) Keep it as planned to give to top player(s) at final tourny.

or

2.) Put it towards a large tourny to get national interest.

On second thought everyone but M2K would probably vote for number 2.


Here is the dilemma: ANMC events draw people regionally for various reasons. Not having a "goal" for ANMC would probably drop the hype for SPOC and other ANMC tournies. So having a prize for ANMC is good for regional tourny attendance.

On the other hand, Atl. North is due for another national tournament. We have WoZ, Scar, Chibo, Alukard, and possibly the mages in this who are (very) respected tourny hosts. Taking a page out of Kansas's book, having a OOS bonus or a guarenteed minimum pot, would definately allow for a pretty awesome turnout and we can get venues months in advance to generate hype.

I'd like to have the national thing, but at this point you can't just turn your back on those who are working towards that ANMC fund. There is a decent chance Eggm, Jman or Cactus could upset M2K as well.

Basically IMO it isn't up to Chibo, but rather the rest of Atl North.

 

[pockyD]

I don't see what's the problem with the "amateur bracket" idea, as that's really the best of both worlds

edit: why am i posting here? ...because i would consider going. and while I would have no shot of advancing anywhere relevant, some of the other WCers who would like to go WOULD

 

[CT Chia]

no no no no no
i dont mean cancel the anmc!

i meant cancel the seperate final event for the anmc and combining the final anmc bracket with the last anmc circuit event lol

with doubles, everyone doesn't always have the same teammate. you cant assign the points to the team, you have to assign it to the players. not everyone shows up to the same tourneys as their partners, and you have to worry about whos qualified to making it into the final doubles bracket. for instance, me and gotm are regular tourney partners. no johns event - he didnt show up, i didnt have my regular teammate for teams. spoc event - i cant make it due to being on vacation so he wont have his regular teammate. it happens a lot.

thats why we created the system for how the final doubles event will be drawn up

Doubles will work slightly different due to obvious complications. Essentially, just team with your favorite teammate and do great at each event. When your team places at the end of a qualifier, you will each receive your own points. When creating the teams for the final event, this is how it will go: The person in first place will be asked to choose his/her teammate. The only requirement for choosing a teammate is that you must choose a teammate you have teamed with before at a circuit event where you won points. For instance, if Eggm teamed with Jman at every circuit event, he will not be allowed to all of a sudden choose M2K as his teammate for the final event. Additionally, if Eggm had teamed with Scar at a circuit event and did not place top 16 (receive points), then he may not choose Scar as his partner for the final event. We will then ask the next person in line who they want to team with, and we will keep going until 16 teams are made. For instance, say rank #1 chooses to team with who is at rank #3, we then ask rank #2 who they want to team with. If rank #2 chooses rank #4, we would then next ask rank #5 who they want to team with, since ranks #3 and #4 already have a teammate. This system was chosen as everyone is not able to always team with the same person at every event, and in case some people may not be able to make it to the final event. If there is no one you can choose to team with following the regular rules, exceptions may be made at judge's discretion.

somehow adding an amateur bracket to that is a nightmare

 

[pockyD]

first off, i don't see what's wrong with forcing players to keep the same teammate if they are attempting to pre-qualify

secondly, why is that a nightmare? if you insist on doing that, then let the top X people that pre-qualify choose their partners, and put everyone else is in the "amateur bracket".

 

[Mogwai]

somehow adding an amateur bracket to that is a nightmare

The original system is sorta a nightmare

 

[CT Chia]

The original system is sorta a nightmare

its a lot simpler than it looks -_-
i just explained it thoroughly
we already discussed it, and already agreed on it.

first off, i don't see what's wrong with forcing players to keep the same teammate if they are attempting to pre-qualify

because players dont have control over what events their regular teammates can attend.

this discussion is getting to be a lot, we have a panel of people in charge of the anmc to discuss topics like these. i always encourage and like outside opinions, but we keep going in circles here and getting too many different suggestions and its getting complicated.

to all directors of the circuit, add your input in the social group

 

[Alukard]

seeeee chibo ... i agree with pocky ... forcing them to use the same partner makes sense ... because its not fair to the people who are following the rules and teaming up with the same person

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Way not to put me in the social group.

 

[pockyD]

because players dont have control over what events their regular teammates can attend.

they should know that in advance

the final tournament is, what, 3-4 months away? how can anyone say you "might have plans" that day? MAKE THIS YOUR PLANS if you're serious about it

this discussion is getting to be a lot, we have a panel of people in charge of the anmc to discuss topics like these.

Yes, and all these issues should have been resolved before the circuit even began. Now that a tournament has already been run with the name slapped on it, you are limited as far as what you can do, unless you intend to return the money you took from that tournament and reimburse the winners

i always encourage and like outside opinions, but we keep going in circles here and getting too many different suggestions and its getting complicated.

there is no circle. Most of us have been pitching the exact same idea, just with clarifications to your confusions; not a constantly morphing idea

to all directors of the circuit, add your input in the social group

honestly, judging from what I know of them, it's hard for me to believe that more than half the people listed in the first post

Alukard
ChiboSempai
Eggm
GOTM
Vanz
Scar
SwiftBass

...have enough knowledge or even care enough to put sufficient thought into a suggestion

if you are legitimately confused by what is being pitched, talk to me on AIM @ 'horizonflash'. if you're just turning down the idea because you don't like it, that's fine, but don't act like it's because it's too confusing -_-

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

I don't like the fact that you guys want to coddle doubles players because they can't make it to an event.

This is your event and circuit, and it should revolve around your schedule, not theirs. If a partner can't make it, tough luck, I say! If it was so important for them to come, they should have been able to.

I still don't see what's so complicated about that.

 

[CT Chia]

the whole deal with the regular teammate was not because of the final tourney, which yes, ppl can make plans for, but was for all the qualifying circuit events. and the final event is limited in being in it due to the qualifying events, so you have to have guidelines for who can team with each other and so on.

of the suggestions, it seemed like the main focus was on the amateur tourney and stuff for the final event. im skeptical of the whole amateur thing because of the point of the circuit is for the people who have proven themselves across the circuit, and we still give ppl some slack with dropping some of their scores, etc. we had agreed that a certain amount of weight also has to be given to attendance along with skill, to avoid having ppl make it into the final bracket from being at like one tourney, which is essentially what the amateur event is, especially when that one tourney, is no where near as hard as others since the pros (most likely) wont be in it.

i think that instead of holding a seperate event for the final bracket and such, it would be easier to combine it with the final event of the circuit (which is looking to be CoT). People will already be there for attending another circuit event, and it makes it so ANMC attendees have to travel to one less tournament when the list of ANMC is growing a lot and it might be a burden to try to attend as many as possible.

edit from seeing woz's post

I don't like the fact that you guys want to coddle doubles players because they can't make it to an event.

This is your event and circuit, and it should revolve around your schedule, not theirs. If a partner can't make it, tough luck, I say! If it was so important for them to come, they should have been able to.

I still don't see what's so complicated about that.

because if one person cant make it, why should the other be penalized? they are still then able to team with someone else that tourney, and still get points to help them out. and then the system still allows them to team with whoeever they want at the final event (providing there are a couple of guidelines for teammates, but none of which are bad and shouldnt affect anyone)

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

because if one person cant make it, why should the other be penalized? they are still then able to team with someone else that tourney, and still get points to help them out.

So what are we arguing about? I never said the other teammate should be penalized.

 

[pockyD]

gmail chat format, so mango-esque =\

my proposal is fairly simple
top 12 auto advance to final bracket
take top 4 from standard pools => bracket
then taking the two players in winner's finals, and the two players in loser's semis
put them into that final bracket to make 16
then play it out
the money you have accumulated throughout the circuit
is added to the prize pot for that tournament
so there is your inherent "OOS bonus" or whatever that means
except it's available for instate too
which is how it should be
and i like another special gimmick
where you seed the top 8
for the final bracket
and allow them to choose their opponents
because you know, a top player who didn't qualify via circuit
may have advanced via "amateur bracket"
so you don't force the unlucky 2nd place prequalifier to play mango first round
or whatever



in short...
1) Prize money from circuit events that you've set aside (10%?) is added to the prize pot of the final tournament. This is "guaranteed money" that, as you hope, will encourage people to travel greater distances to come.

2) Pre-qualifying from the circuit events allows players to avoid attempting to qualify at this potential "large-scale" tournament, instead advancing directly to the round of 16... just as importantly (or really, a corollary to the same point), it allows them to avoid potentially getting knocked out by powerful OOSers who make it only to this event

3) OOS players still have the opportunity to play for the prize, as does anyone else who wants to attend the tournament. Like I said, on a simplistic level, it's simply granting a set of byes to the top X qualifiers (I pitched 12, but it can be however many). This is what helps you draw large out-of-area attendance; if a player from far away has no chance of placing relevantly (because they have no pre-existing ANMC points), then why would they come? In addition, due to the top 12 players already being advanced past the qualifier / "amateur" brackets, the road for these OOSers to advance to the final bracket is easier, as they will not be encountering M2K, Cactuar, etc. on their way to trying to get top 4 out of a group which does not include the aforementioned players.

because if one person cant make it, why should the other be penalized? they are still then able to team with someone else that tourney, and still get points to help them out. and then the system still allows them to team with whoeever they want at the final event (providing there are a couple of guidelines for teammates, but none of which are bad and shouldnt affect anyone)

you are indirectly rewarding people for potentially riding coattails (giving players points which they may or may not deserve, i.e. having m2k carry you to first place)

teams are played as a team; you can't necessarily assume the individuals that make up the team made equal contributions to their final placing

for example, you can't allow lebron james to pick a new 11 players to play with when he gets to the playoffs; he has to stick with the team that got him there (or the team he dragged there -_-)

 

[CT Chia]

So what are we arguing about? I never said the other teammate should be penalized.

because if points are assigned to the team instead of the individual players, that team is missing out on points hurting them in the long run. the current system is fine for people who do have their standard team at every tourney, and also helps out when people dont always have their regular teammate, getting them to the finals still providing they still step it up and work good without that teammate

 

[MattDotZeb]

Linguini is on this?
He's not even ****ing from Atlantic North.
He lives in FLORIDA.


Unless he moved then I'm sorry and still love you Chibo

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

I think there's something out of context here, because we're obviously talking about different things.

Wait wait, lemme read back.

Edit: And really, I should be part of this "inner" discussion, especially if you want my tournament run on your circuit, and I'm giving 10% to you.

 

[Alukard]

but chibo thats stupid ... because thats why people should find a stable partner and work with them ... thats why people who teamed for a while know each other well ... me+dionis ... scar+ pakman... jesus + eggm now ... m2k +cactuar... pc+ cort ... look at do young and teh spammer ... they always make sure they team together for a big tourney ... because of chemistry within the team

it makes sense ... OF COURSE TWO GOOD PLAYERS WILL DO WELL TOGETHER ... BUT IT SHOULD B WITH A STABLE PARTNER!!!!!

MAKE THE EFFORT TO COME TO THE EVENTS ... SERIOUSLY ... I CAN'T STRESS THAT ENOUGH

 

[pockyD]

because if points are assigned to the team instead of the individual players, that team is missing out on points hurting them in the long run. the current system is fine for people who do have their standard team at every tourney, and also helps out when people dont always have their regular teammate, getting them to the finals still providing they still step it up and work good without that teammate

why is that a good thing?

I see nothing wrong with encouraging teams to prove themselves as a team instead of individually

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

Right. Scratch my post about penalizing the other teammate.

I agree with Pocky.

 

[Alukard]

why is that a good thing?

I see nothing wrong with encouraging teams to prove themselves as a team instead of individually

thank you ... thats exactly right.

seriously ... theres a singles event as well ... if ur not going to have a reliable partner ... dont team with them ... simple as that

 

[JFox]

Chibo, you said you agreed with me, and than totally disagreed with me. I personally think that the point system should just be scrapped, and then you, Scar, and Alukard raise money that goes towards a final tourney which the three of you will host. You don't need to convince anyone to help you raise money, it would just be the three of you. It would take maybe 3 months, depending on how many tourneys you guys would run.

"Chibo, Alukard, and Scar present: Tri-State National Tournament- $1000 prize guaranteed for first place!" And there's your final tournament.

Nothing fancy, just a huge tournament financially supported by funds from three tournaments- NJBW, Spoc, and CoT/dso. First place would be $1000+, depending on number of entrants. Second and third would split the 65%/35% using entrance fees, just like any other normal tourney.

 

[Mew2King]

I don't like that idea. I'm already doing good in points, why would I want to undo that? I already knew I was playing for points and that's one of the big reasons I went to particular tourneys, so now you are saying we should scrap that? No thanks. Maybe next time, but not this time.

don't listen to Jfox

there's a thing called "fairness". Changing plans mid-way through is part of being unfair. You should have decided this before starting it. It's too late now.

 

[JFox]

I don't like that idea. I'm already doing good in points, why would I want to undo that? I already knew I was playing for points and that's one of the big reasons I went to particular tourneys, so now you are saying we should scrap that? No thanks. Maybe next time, but not this time.

don't listen to him

M2k, you went because you wanted to make money, and you did. You're not midway, your one tourney in, lol. You can pretty much win anything, so why would u be concerned with how many points you have? You would end up winning more money if we ended up making this giant tourney.

Edit: I think we should just go with the original plan, cuz thats easiest. We'll have a nice boring final event with only local players, cuz its impossible for OOS to build up adequate points, despite whatever anyone says.

I'm pretty sure this is why no one ever finishes circuits.

Edit2: My god, m2k logic is almost as bad as inui logic. You will say anything to make more money.

 

[Mew2King]

because the points are for money, and scrapping my points means scrapping my pretty much guaranteed money?

you obviously don't care about being fair if you are seriously proposing what you are. Changing plans mid-way is going to piss some people off, particularly me

I don't care if you do this NEXT time, but NOT this time

I like the point system better anyway, it shows who's better over a longer period of time (consistency)

 

[(*Jman*)]

i really dont like that idea jfox i also played 4 the points and i do care about it a lot

 

[JFox]

Its ok guys. I edited my post. I too think we should use points, and have a nice local 32 man tournament as the final event.

 

[Deleted member]

M2k, you went because you wanted to make money, and you did. You're not midway, your one tourney in, lol. You can pretty much win anything, so why would u be concerned with how many points you have? You would end up winning more money if we ended up making this giant tourney.

Edit: I think we should just go with the original plan, cuz thats easiest. We'll have a nice boring final event with only local players, cuz its impossible for OOS to build up adequate points, despite whatever anyone says.

I'm pretty sure this is why no one ever finishes circuits.

Edit2: My god, m2k logic is almost as bad as inui logic. You will say anything to make more money.

of course he wants to make money, thats just logical. why are you making it sound so greedy?

stop scheming stuff.

If you want a bigger tournament, advertise to other regions. Set up housing and transportation and food. help people buy cheaper tickets. do stuff other than money.

tournaments existed before huge payouts.

 

[Mew2King]

wow @ do anything to make more money. I split very frequently even if my chances are far in my favor of not doing so. I don't play for just money, but FAIRNESS is something that's very important to me. It's not FAIR to do this half way through

 

[Cia]

Yeah, i like the point system. however, i think there should either be more time or a circuit event every three weeks.

3 tournaments than a big one after

 

[Mogwai]

This whole system is very poorly contrived and I think it would be better to have it changed.

That being said, M2K and Jesus are right that it's not really fair to change things once they've started.

Whatever, I don't really care about this stuff, but I do really think that when planning something of this nature, it needs to be more well thought out.

 

[(*Jman*)]

i think it should be points

and m2k will not wiN

im going to try my best to wiin

 

[Mew2King]

you probably will win lol i never play anymore cuz no one visits me and i quit playing melee alone almost a year ago

sad face =[

 

[Scar]

Uh I don't really know what's going on but someone should fill me in over AIM, we as the tourney directors should all get a chat room. JFox can come too.

 

[JFox]

I'm online now. Talk to me- soeuphoric87

 

[Velocity]

Changing plans mid-way is going to piss some people off, particularly me

MEWTWOKING rage is building.

 

[Velocity]

you probably will win lol i never play anymore cuz no one visits me and i quit playing melee alone almost a year ago

sad face =[

I'll come over this week.

 

[Alukard]

Uh I don't really know what's going on but someone should fill me in over AIM, we as the tourney directors should all get a chat room. JFox can come too.

agreed.

10duzio's??!?!

 

[pockyD]

it's hard to believe that there are more than 32 relevant players anyway

just looking at the point standings after one tournament, there are plenty of "huh? who's that?" on the list

point being that this elusive "32man final bracket" won't be much different from a normal tournament, just minus the riff-raff/free wins