At what % should infinites end before they are considered stalling?

[Flayl]

In order to make sure a player doesn't extend an infinite more than needed to KO the opponent so he can waste time, what should be the damage % limit before a judge warns the player to stop?

I've heard 200% and 300% as possible limits, which one of these should I go with? Is there a better one?

edit: This is for Brawl, but info for a limit in Melee is useful as well.

 

['V']

I think Brawl tourneys have used 300% (at least for the Dedede infinites)
Melee uses a range of about 200-250%

In all fairness though, it's up for the TO to decide. Try using different amounts for each tournament and see what works.

 

[trademark0013]

there shouldnt be a limit. running out the clock had always been a viable strategy. people shouldnt be getting caught in infinites in the first place

 

[choknater]

running the clock with an infinite is not a viable strategy IMO. running the clock with camping is, cuz at least u offer ur opponent the option of chasing

300% is reasonable for ddd's standing infinite cuz it guarantees a KO for fthrow or bthrow

for ic's infinite, 200 or 250% is reasonable.

well anyway, as long as ppl go past kill percents really far it can be considered stalling, most ic's end their cg's at 100 or so against light or mid weight characters anyway, cuz they know the usmash is gonna kill. for heavies, they might go to 140 or 150 just to make sure. as long as u dont go too far past that with the purpose of running the time, its not a big problem

 

[Wobbles]

Trademark: So you're saying getting caught by a single infinite is reason enough to cost you the entire round?

 

[Steven Jackson Action Jackson]

300% would be really silly. You can kill almost everyone without godlike DI at the edge of the stage with a F-throw at 200%. That's stalling 100% you can stall, thinking that one stale D-throw is 5%, that's 20 throws. You can hold your opponent for a while before D-throwing him again, you can easily stall 1½ minutes.

 

[Alus]

there shouldnt be a limit. running out the clock had always been a viable strategy. people shouldnt be getting caught in infinites in the first place

This is quite the naive thing I have read in awhile.

What you are referring to is known as STALLING!!!

Your putting yourself in a situation where the opponent truly cannot do ANYTHING to you.

That is NOT a viable strategy (in case you didn't know).

 

[Team Giza]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=981qbvoLUNc
I do recall this infinite being used in SBO last year to run out the clock. Wish SBO videos were allowed to be up on yotube.

 

[BluePeachy100]

Anything above %20 a move that takes more than 30 seconds is overrated and soooooooooo stally*shot*

 

[trademark0013]

tbh only infinites i kno of in this game were tilt ones and DDD's CG across the stage or against walls. didnt realize there were others. my mistake on that

only tru infinites in melee are drill/wave shining (which cant be done on the allowed stages because it'll change and end it for the most part) and wobbling (which is banned at most tournaments)

 

[codfish92]

anything over 220%, pretty much everyone's tilt will kill someone at that percentage. some jabs too.

 

[The Sauce Boss]

300% Characters like snake and d3 easily live past 200%. You want to be absolutely sure they are in KO percent if the player doing the infinite messes up the KO move at the end of the infinite.

 

[smashkng]

Limit should be percent an infinite CG is guaranteed KO with DI. But infinite grab releases, for example Ganon on Wario, can take forever, so if he stands and doesn't pummel should be considered stalling.

 

[Mota]

For brawl you should use about 200%-250% all characters should be able to kill at that range, no need to go any higher.

 

[Dark Sonic]

For brawl you should use about 200%-250% all characters should be able to kill at that range, no need to go any higher.

DK can live from DDD's infinite at that percent. I think Wario can live from ZSS's infinite at that percent too (unless she can grab release to uair or something). The percentage cap needs to be high enough to ensure that the player is guranteed a kill from it (as is the point of infinites)

 

[thanortinzak]

The official tournament rules are 300%, as said by the Smash Backroom.

 

[UltiMario]

The official tournament rules are 300%, as said by the Smash Backroom.

And this is where it should stay.

Its Super-Sudden Death %, so you're garunteed a kill unless you hit with some ****ty multi-hit move that your opponent can DI out of before the strong hit.

 

[pockyD]

i think an alternate solution is to implement some sort of suicide rule where any player can signal their intention to immediately suicide if released from such an infinite/combo once THEY feel like they are being stalled out and would prefer to continue gameplay instead of attempting to avoid the deathblow

it's hard to say whether this would work, largely because of the honesty/trustworthiness issue (asking to be let go, then not suiciding immediately/at all), but in theory, this both allows 'infinites' and disallows stalling, all without the need to call an arbiter over to determine whether 253% is a kill percent as opposed to 249%

 

[My Cat Owns]

DDD can kill anyone at 250% I'm sure, with dtilt (guaranteed). Snake might live, but icgs are unfair anyway, so they should be let out at that percent to at least give the other person a chance. idk, it's up to TO

 

[Flayl]

DK can live from DDD's infinite at that percent. I think Wario can live from ZSS's infinite at that percent too (unless she can grab release to uair or something). The percentage cap needs to be high enough to ensure that the player is guranteed a kill from it (as is the point of infinites)

Dedede can down tilt DK out of a Dthrow and kill him way before 300%. I made this topic specifically because I thought 300% was too high.

Pocky's solution is nice, too bad there are players who would definitely abuse it.

 

[pockyD]

maybe if your suicide request is something like unplugging your controller (or taking the back off your wiimote/unplugging the nunchuk/whatever), it would be harder to abuse

 

[professor mgw]

honestly INFINTE ANYTHING MAKES THE GAME LESS FUN WHEN ITS OVER USED.
i say 100%. infinte's leading into a kill is NO skill, work for 1/4 of the win atleast.

 

[pockyD]

what does that even mean

 

[Sox]

honestly INFINTE ANYTHING MAKES THE GAME LESS FUN WHEN ITS OVER USED.
i say 100%. infinte's leading into a kill is NO skill, work for 1/4 of the win atleast.

this is a topic in tournament discussion, dude. Play to win, not for fun.

 

[Llumys]

Ice Climbers can easily kill the heaviest of characters on most stages with a fully charged up smash at 150%, so I think that's a good limit. For Dedede, I definitely think 200 is a good percentage to stop.

 

[wool]

175 for melee
200 or 250 for brawl

 

[kupo15]

Pocky's solution is nice, too bad there are players who would definitely abuse it.

well, you do have a crowd behind you. If you don't suicide, you forfeit the match, if you refuse to forfeit, you are DQed

 

[Tichinde925]

I won with a reverse infinite in Melee back in 2006 / 2007 at a Mass Madness.

It was a fox ditto, and I first shined spike the opponent so now it was 4 lives (me) vs his 3 lives. I then fired lasers at him repeatedly until he put his reflector up. Then I kept firing lasers away for about 7+ minutes winning the match. I had 999% dmg ofcourse.

i think an alternate solution is to implement some sort of suicide rule where any player can signal their intention to immediately suicide if released from such an infinite/combo once THEY feel like they are being stalled out and would prefer to continue gameplay instead of attempting to avoid the deathblow

it's hard to say whether this would work, largely because of the honesty/trustworthiness issue (asking to be let go, then not suiciding immediately/at all), but in theory, this both allows 'infinites' and disallows stalling, all without the need to call an arbiter over to determine whether 253% is a kill percent as opposed to 249%

So how would that work with my method of stalling?

 

[PK-ow!]

So how would that work with my method of stalling?

The opponent would stop being stupid and attack you. o_0

Srsly. Your story is a riot. Also, props.

 

[Melomaniacal]

Ice Climbers can easily kill the heaviest of characters on most stages with a fully charged up smash at 150%, so I think that's a good limit. For Dedede, I definitely think 200 is a good percentage to stop.

You could probably wiggle out of the grab before ICs can get a fully charged up-smash at 150%.

If you're really determined, at least.

 

[Tichinde925]

I found the original thread! Yay!

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=101144