At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

[Giga Kaiju]

Welp. So, I'm guessing that characters that are added as spirits this late in the game are completely out of the running.

You could make a case for regular vanilla Ultimate but as a late addition? I guess that's it for a Resident Evil rep as a whole (yet not for Capcom overall).

.

 

[ActualGarbage]

Welp. So, I'm guessing that characters that are added as spirits this late in the game are completely out of the running.

You could make a case for regular vanilla Ultimate but as a late addition? I guess that's it for a Resident Evil rep as a whole (yet not for Capcom overall).

.

I still think that if we get another Capcom character it'd be the Monster Hunter, if only because it would be so easy to add them. Just take the Rathalos boss arena, spiff it up into a real stage, throw in a couple more music tracks and bingo, new Smash DLC made with minimal effort.

 

[Deleted member]

Seeing the RE spirits last night really shocked me. I assume they will be out of the running. It's kinda odd to see Spirits of a third party franchise that didn't have any content in Smash prior.

It... makes me worry for the future really. Anything can happen at any time.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Given the datamine we had months ago of there being approximately 10 extra character slots besides the FP and plant characters, that gives a general idea what to expect. Not just anyone can join.

 

[Deleted member]

Given the datamine we had months ago of there being approximately 10 extra character slots besides the FP and plant characters, that gives a general idea what to expect. Not just anyone can join.

Keep in mind not all of those slots might not be used. They could be dummy slots just in case there will be enough DLC for 10 additional fighters.
After the Fighters Pass, I think we might get some first party characters, namely Byleth and Akira considering their games didn't get any Spirits while DXM and Pokemon did. We also can't rule out any potential Echo Fighters, such as Gooigi, and I assume they would take up a slot.

Our main worries are if Nintendo will just give Doom a Mii costume (assuming the leak is true) or just Spirits (probably to promote Doom Eternal). I can't deny the possibility that we could get Dragonborn and not Doom Slayer.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Believe what you want, I'm leaving the thread until actual details on that supposed Cacodemon Mii costume come up.

Spoiler

 

[GolisoPower]

When do you guys suppose we’ll get a concrete release date on Doom Eternal for Switch?

I mean, the Switch is the only platform for Doom Eternal that doesn’t have a specific release date. We only know it’s coming out after the others. I hope it’s something like a week after.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

I don't know, but I think we definitely would've had some idea on when Doom Eternal for Switch would've happened sooner if not for the delay.

While the Resident Evil spirit news is a bummer (in more ways than one), it doesn't really change my confidence or lack thereof for potential Doom stuff being in Smash, but yeah, anything could happen as far as a confirm or deconfirm.

 

[PublicServant]

I don't know, but I think we definitely would've had some idea on when Doom Eternal for Switch would've happened sooner if not for the delay.

While the Resident Evil spirit news is a bummer (in more ways than one), it doesn't really change my confidence or lack thereof for potential Doom stuff being in Smash, but yeah, anything could happen as far as a confirm or deconfirm.

Funnily enough, the Switch version was to be released concurrently with other platforms. Seems that the delay changed that fact drastically.

 

[shinhed-echi]

While we’re on the subject of releasing games.
Doom 64 hasn’t released yet?
I thought it was going to release on the day Eternal was originally going to be released, but now, despite Eternal being delayed, it seems Doom 64 is going to release alongside Eternal no matter what?
The date says December 31 2020 so I assume it’s a placeholder.

 

[TindalosKeeper]

While we’re on the subject of releasing games.
Doom 64 hasn’t released yet?
I thought it was going to release on the day Eternal was originally going to be released, but now, despite Eternal being delayed, it seems Doom 64 is going to release alongside Eternal no matter what?
The date says December 31 2020 so I assume it’s a placeholder.

Placeholder.
And yeah, Doom 64 was supposed to be released with Eternal, pretty sure even the tweets said so.

 

[valkiriforce]

I wish people didn't see Doomguy/Slayer as a meme pick; it's kind of ridiculous to think given that Doom is a legacy title that popularizing first-person shooters and to this day remains one of the best imo. There are times I hear from detractors or people who think he's just another uninteresting character with a gun and suit similar to Samus or whatever and I wish I could take them through the plethora of Doom PWADs that have come out over the years, because it's really incredible what the community has achieved and the longevity of activity that remains even to this day. I've made plenty of Doom gifs to try and bring attention to these sort of things and there's no shortage of interesting visual work on top of actually being loads of fun to play through. I'll admit though it does look kind of grim when you consider how few western characters are actually in Smash Ultimate, however I know that can change since we do have some like K. Rool or Banjo-Kazooie, and I know there's still a number of things working for or against him in Smash. Also I do believe there is enough to work with for an interesting moveset, and I do think we could use more gunners in general. Doomguy fits that as one of gaming's biggest gunners (toting that BFG9000 like a boss) and I'd love to see things like his berserk punch worked into his moveset. It just makes me wonder how Sakurai would handle it if he went with him as a playable fighter.

The funny thing is originally I recall Doomguy was supposed to represent the player somewhat, hence the ambiguous identity and first-person perspective (despite already having an HUD face). It's cool that he sort of has developed his own personality over time though, and personally I don't mind either interpretation. I do think if he gets in they'll probably just call him DOOM similar to Quake III, and I think it works well enough.

I also wanted to share some cool moments from some PWADs I've played so I hope you don't mind!

Spoiler: gifs

Japanese Community Project, MAP27

Japanese Community Project, MAP12

Alien Vendetta, MAP05

Oceanside, MAP01

 

[TindalosKeeper]

I wish people didn't see Doomguy/Slayer as a meme pick; it's kind of ridiculous to think given that Doom is a legacy title that popularizing first-person shooters and to this day remains one of the best imo. There are times I hear from detractors or people who think he's just another uninteresting character with a gun and suit similar to Samus or whatever and I wish I could take them through the plethora of Doom PWADs that have come out over the years, because it's really incredible what the community has achieved and the longevity of activity that remains even to this day. I've made plenty of Doom gifs to try and bring attention to these sort of things and there's no shortage of interesting visual work on top of actually being loads of fun to play through. I'll admit though it does look kind of grim when you consider how few western characters are actually in Smash Ultimate, however I know that can change since we do have some like K. Rool or Banjo-Kazooie, and I know there's still a number of things working for or against him in Smash. Also I do believe there is enough to work with for an interesting moveset, and I do think we could use more gunners in general. Doomguy fits that as one of gaming's biggest gunners (toting that BFG9000 like a boss) and I'd love to see things like his berserk punch worked into his moveset. It just makes me wonder how Sakurai would handle it if he went with him as a playable fighter.

The funny thing is originally I recall Doomguy was supposed to represent the player somewhat, hence the ambiguous identity and first-person perspective (despite already having an HUD face). It's cool that he sort of has developed his own personality over time though, and personally I don't mind either interpretation. I do think if he gets in they'll probably just call him DOOM similar to Quake III, and I think it works well enough.

I also wanted to share some cool moments from some PWADs I've played so I hope you don't mind!

Spoiler: gifs

Japanese Community Project, MAP27

Japanese Community Project, MAP12

Alien Vendetta, MAP05

Oceanside, MAP01

That's a minority of people wanting to make him a meme pick or make him a carbon copy of another character (Which is not the case, since Samus obviously doesn't even have a shotgun... Or a beam that shoots wide-spread for that matter...)

People do recognize him as a legacy character, and the popularizer of FPS (The fathers would be Hovertank/Catacomb/Wolfenstein 3D, but they didn't have a big impact in the gaming industry). Even Sakurai himself said PC gaming made a great impact in every game developer, including himself... Pretty sure DOOM was indeed noticed in the East. I'd be surprised if they didn't.

I'm absolutely sure Splatoon is a sub-genre of the FPS (a TPS or Third Person Shooter), and it wouldn't be too farfetched to see the roots of Splatoon ending on DOOM as the idea for the game, and thanks to DOOM, Inkling is a playable, and also the stepping stone for Splatoon to become one of the highest selling TPS.

Doomguy at this point, more than deserves the spot if people leaves the meme thing aside, and actually focuses on researching a bit about DOOM's past.

 

[ActualGarbage]

I'm absolutely sure Splatoon is a sub-genre of the FPS (a TPS or Third Person Shooter), and it wouldn't be too farfetched to see the roots of Splatoon ending on DOOM as the idea for the game, and thanks to DOOM, Inkling is a playable, and also the stepping stone for Splatoon to become one of the highest selling TPS.

Why'd you have to make me think of Inklings in Doom's setting and doing glory kills and the like, I just woke up and can't giggle this hard yet.

 

[PublicServant]

People do recognize him as a legacy character, and the popularizer of FPS (The fathers would be Hovertank/Catacomb/Wolfenstein 3D, but they didn't have a big impact in the gaming industry). Even Sakurai himself said PC gaming made a great impact in every game developer, including himself... Pretty sure DOOM was indeed noticed in the East. I'd be surprised if they didn't.

Wolfenstein and co. are typically referred to as the Grandfathers of FPS due to having pioneered the genre (Wolf especially), while Doom was the game that codified the genre into what we know today, making it more deserving for the title of "The Father of FPS".

And you're quite right in the sense that almost every shooter after the fact still has a little bit of DNA from the id Software trio (Wolfenstein, DOOM and Quake).

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Passing by to wish everyone in this thread a good Thanksgiving.

I bet Doom Slayer is grateful for being able to RIP AND TEAR so much.

.

 

[3DSNinja]

Ok, honestly there are two games that defined first Person Shooters. Doom, (duh) and Half-Life. Half-Life is what influenced greater stories and more then just kill everything in x rooms. Heck, Half-Life made AI actually kinda intelligent.
I love Doom, but please give Half-Life some credit when talking about FPS's.
Sorry, been mad about this for a while, so just had to say that.
continue now with your discussion

 

[TindalosKeeper]

Ok, honestly there are two games that defined first Person Shooters. Doom, (duh) and Half-Life. Half-Life is what influenced greater stories and more then just kill everything in x rooms. Heck, Half-Life made AI actually kinda intelligent.
I love Doom, but please give Half-Life some credit when talking about FPS's.
Sorry, been mad about this for a while, so just had to say that.
continue now with your discussion

It's hard to say what FPS games originated certain new characteristics, but I do recognize Half-Life was revolutionary as well...
All I'm saying is that DOOM is the stepping stone for other FPS to draw inspiration and build their own FPS with their own unique features.
If DOOM was the father of FPS in general, Half-Life originated better story-telling and better intelligent AI.

 

[Holphino]

Ok, honestly there are two games that defined first Person Shooters. Doom, (duh) and Half-Life. Half-Life is what influenced greater stories and more then just kill everything in x rooms. Heck, Half-Life made AI actually kinda intelligent.
I love Doom, but please give Half-Life some credit when talking about FPS's.
Sorry, been mad about this for a while, so just had to say that.
continue now with your discussion

No one can deny Half-Life's legacy, it's pretty much right there with Doom as one of the best series of all time. If i'm choosing which FPS character I want first though, i'm choosing Doomguy. My 2 reasons are:
1. Without Doom there is no Half-Life(Doom was actually one of the many inspirations for Half-Life).
2. Doom has a better history with Nintendo than Half-Life does(which to be fair, isn't that important. As plenty of characters that have never appeared on any Nintendo system have gotten in before, It's still worth noting though).

If we end up never getting Doomguy, i'd still be happy if Gordon got in. Since I really like Half-Life and Valve, however, if I was given the choice of who i'd want. I'd choose Doomguy, he slightly edges Gordon for me.

 

[valkiriforce]

Half-Life is cool; it's been forever since I've even played it (probably since the early 2000's) I recall one of the authors of Final Doom - Dario Casali - went on to work for Valve shortly after, which involved working on the first Half-Life and probably other notable titles like TF2 and Half-Life 2.

 

[Glowsquid]

re the ID pantheon: the way I frame it is that Wolf 3D certainly wasn't the first game where you shoot things in first person, but it was the one that set many of the mechanics and control convention of the genre and the first one to be technologically and commercially viable, while Doom was the game that proved the genre could have variety, depth and lasting appeal.

Half-Life is what influenced greater stories and more then just kill everything in x rooms.

I don,t agree. The FPS genre was already clearly moving in a story-driven direction before Half-Life.

Even ignoring cult hits like Strife and System Shock, in 1997, you had Unreal and Quake II a game which, granted, had a very simple story but had scripted events, extensive voice acting to contextualize the narrative, levels that connected with each others and mission objectives that were integrated into the storyline beyond "get the blue key card" (even if they were pretty much all fetch quests). And throughout 1998, you had Blood II, Shogo: Mobile Armor Division and SiN, all games before HL that had effort put into their storyline (even if they were all quite lowbrow) and featured elements that are commonly attributed to Half Life (like "realistic" weapon placement, fighting alongside friendly NPCs, walk and talk exposition segments where you're not shooting and killing people, etc). And by its developers own admission, the final version of HL was influenced by Goldeneye.

That's not say Half-Life wasn't very influential because it undoubtedly was. Certainly a lot of game took notice of its innovations. It's what inspired the very specific style of turn-of-the-millenium story-based FPS like Red Faction, Soldier of Fortune (even Call of Duty to an extent) and its influence could be felt in Doom itself, with Doom 3's opening where you walk around the base and talk to people before hell literally breaks loose mirroring Half Life's opening tramway ride and stroll in the office. But yeah "Half-Life gave FPS story" is a take I don't think is true.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Not going to quote the whole post for this but...

Somebody else knows about Shogo!? :o

 

[Spongeboob]

Someone might've asked this already but I'll shoot anyways: If you were to add Doomguy in, would you implement Glory Kills? If so, how?
I personally wouldn't, but IF I were to do so, I'd make them as some sort of command grab for Green Samus.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Not going to quote the whole post for this but...

Somebody else that knows about Shogo!? :o

-
As for Glory kills? I’m not really familiar with the mechanic yet, other than knowing that they’re super violent finishers.

I would change them in a way that they look violent, but in a goofy way.
For execution, yes, a command grab sounds ideal.
As for animation, it would be amazing if he had one for every fighter.

For Mario, Doomguy would stretch his hat all the way down to his feet, and then kick him real hard in a diagonal angle.

For Yoshi, Doomguy would grab his tongue, stretch it all the way back, and the recoil would make it slam into his face, sending him flying.

For Kirby, he would shove his arm inside the pink puffball’s mouth, retrieve a giant ham, and strike him away as if it were a baseball bat.


These would be my ideal form of implementation of Glory Kills.
Also, the tone depends on the opponent. So characters like Ridley, get a more violent looking attack (than say... Isabelle) not surpassing what the opponent would be capable of doing as far as tone goes.

 

[GolisoPower]

As for Glory kills? I’m not really familiar with the mechanic yet, other than knowing that they’re super violent finishers.

I would change them in a way that they look violent, but in a goofy way.
For execution, yes, a command grab sounds ideal.
As for animation, it would be amazing if he had one for every fighter.

For Mario, Doomguy would stretch his hat all the way down to his feet, and then kick him real hard in a diagonal angle.

For Yoshi, Doomguy would grab his tongue, stretch it all the way back, and the recoil would make it slam into his face, sending him flying.

For Kirby, he would shove his arm inside the pink puffball’s mouth, retrieve a giant ham, and strike him away as if it were a baseball bat.


These would be my ideal form of implementation of Glory Kills.
Also, the tone depends on the opponent. So characters like Ridley, get a more violent looking attack (than say... Isabelle) not surpassing what the opponent would be capable of doing as far as tone goes.

I’m with you in the unique Glory Kill animations, dude.

Like for example, one idea I hold dear to my heart was having Doom Slayer pull Charizard’s head backwards and forcing him to eat his own tail.

If we’re going into more violent, yet smart territory, I imagine the Doom Slayer pushing his thumbs into Pikachu’s cheeks, continuously releasing electricity until Pikachu gets KO’d. Basically, forcibly draining all of Pikachu’s energy. A Glory Kill that’s not too bad on the surface, but will be damn scary once people know a little more about Pikachu’s biology.

 

[Buzzwole]

Someone might've asked this already but I'll shoot anyways: If you were to add Doomguy in, would you implement Glory Kills? If so, how?
I personally wouldn't, but IF I were to do so, I'd make them as some sort of command grab for Green Samus.

I'd just make his grabs/pummels/throws extra hardcore. Very violently animated. Lots of stomping and slamming.

If he had any sort of ammo mechanic, then performing grabs/throws could drop ammo which would be cool.

 

[GolisoPower]

While we’re talking about Glory Kills, here’s something that got me thinking:

Say Doom Slayer did get into Smash, and has unique Glory Kill animations for every playable character in Smash. If character development does take 6-8 months, having a unique animation for all 80(?) characters sounds like a lot of work. Would Nintendo do it themselves or outsource to iD software to develop those Glory Kill animations?

 

[Douglas J. Walker 94]

Could somebody please see about putting me on the support list for Doom Guy.

I really think Smash Ultimate could truly use more First Person Shooter representation. As well as some much needed representation from game companies outside of Japan for Judas sake.

 

[PublicServant]

While we’re talking about Glory Kills, here’s something that got me thinking:

Say Doom Slayer did get into Smash, and has unique Glory Kill animations for every playable character in Smash. If character development does take 6-8 months, having a unique animation for all 80(?) characters sounds like a lot of work. Would Nintendo do it themselves or outsource to iD software to develop those Glory Kill animations?

They could probably reuse animations for Echo Fighters and other moveset clones, should the equipment and/or body type match.

For example, both Samus and Dark Samus would probably receive something along the lines of the following for a Glory KO:

Though that doesn't mean that there can't be some creativity between them; where Mario receives a swift kick after having his hat pulled over him, Dr. Mario might end up getting his mouth covered by his own hand, before the Slayer gives the Doc a literal taste of his own medicine.

 

[doomguywhen1993]

The situation with RE seems unfortunate since that series is super relevant and even a main franchise for Capcom but at the same time, i can kinda see Sakurai going on a situation similar to Snake but with an unfortunate outcome.
Maybe if we're lucky, it could be a hint for Dante.
I can also see a Monster Hunter rep getting in but i'm pretty sure they'd have to put a lot more effort to make it feel less like they just did it because of the content already in game, since that series is also pretty big.
Doomguy may seem more likely compared to RE in the sense that in some way he might as well be a superhero (And i say this in a "for better or worse" way because while he is strong and an action hero, there was a time where he was mostly an unlucky guy at a terrible day of his job, who managed to fight back).

For Glory Kills, i wouldn't mind if they just simplified with Doomguy grabbing a character, tossing them in the air and just punching them for health or ammo.
With health and ammo being represented as blue health bottles and backpacks.
Also, before the VGA's, we have Doom's 26th anniversary in December 10th, which is also Cacowards day.
Not that it means much but i'd like to see news about Eternal on that day, like a sneak peak at a level or something about an unseen enemy.

 

[dolke]

https://twitter.com/ret2goryuken/status/1200918670400077824

this is total bs right?

 

[Holphino]

https://twitter.com/ret2goryuken/status/1200918670400077824

this is total bs right?

Seems to be bs, alot of people in that thread are saying it's happened to other characters.

 

[3DSNinja]

am I the only one who thinks Glory Kills sound a lot like...
PUNISHMENT TIME!
Haven't played through 2016 yet, in case you're wondering.

 

[Deleted member]

Someone might've asked this already but I'll shoot anyways: If you were to add Doomguy in, would you implement Glory Kills? If so, how?
I personally wouldn't, but IF I were to do so, I'd make them as some sort of command grab for Green Samus.

My idea for Doom Slayer in general is that he has multiple guns (around 2-4) but they all have limited amounts of ammo. In order to replenish that ammo (in addition to healing off some damage taken), you will have to deal massive amounts of damage, knockback, or get a KO. We will call this "Glory Damage."
Not exactly Glory Killing, but it's similar to it in concept.

 

[PublicServant]

"The Gift of Argent Power."

Custom DOOM Eternal Nintendo Switch for this month's Slayers Club giveaway.https://t.co/rBkfhXbNUa pic.twitter.com/w7Sb6FwEtx

— DOOM (@DOOM) December 1, 2019

Noice

 

[dolke]

"The Gift of Argent Power."

Custom DOOM Eternal Nintendo Switch for this month's Slayers Club giveaway.https://t.co/rBkfhXbNUa pic.twitter.com/w7Sb6FwEtx

— DOOM (@DOOM) December 1, 2019

Noice

that looks so sick good lord

 

[Melonsismyusername]

This would be tight as ****

 

[dolke]

Looks like the DOOM account on Twitter recently followed Nintendo of America. I wonder why they would follow them now?

 

[GolisoPower]

Looks like the DOOM account on Twitter recently followed Nintendo of America. I wonder why they would follow them now?

I’m sorry, W H O T ? !

I don’t know what this means for The Game Awards this year. A solid Doom Eternal Switch release date? Doom Slayer in Smash? A Doom WAD portal for Switch? Oh my god, this is getting me excited as balls!

 

[Giga Kaiju]

Looks like the DOOM account on Twitter recently followed Nintendo of America. I wonder why they would follow them now?

Wait. Now of all times? This is strange. Why didn't they do that before, I wonder...

Probably nothing but it is odd.

.