At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

[PublicServant]

Basically copied from me moveset post, but anyways.

Music:
For the most part, I tried going for tracks which had a fast pace/were good in action scenarios, to fit the fighting speed of Smash Bros. The song pool below is relatively large for a newcomer, so treat this as more of a pool of tracks the devs would be likely to select.
With the possible exception of the 2016 and Eternal tracks, a lot of these could also be given remixes by Japanese artists (this includes tracks I haven't listed for the above reasons, so don't worry if I haven't listed a track you personally felt could fit here). Bold tracks are my personal faves.

• Victory themes
  • Excerpt of the Doom Eternal Trailer theme (all Eternal alts).
  • Excerpt from At Doom's Gate (Unchained Predator, Arena and Doom Marine alts).
  • Intermission from DOOM on a constant loop in the results screen (similar to the FFVII Victory theme for Cloud) (Doomguy alt).
• Classic Doom tracks
  • At Doom's Gate
  • The Imp's Song
  • Kitchen Ace (And Taking Names)
  • On the Hunt
  • Hiding the Secrets
  • I Sawed the Demons
  • Intermission from DOOM
  • Sinister
  • Nobody Told Me About Id
  • Untitled (Hell Keep)
  • Donna to the Rescue
  • Deep into the Code
  • Facing the Spider
  • Running from Evil
  • Between Levels
  • DOOM
  • Shawn's Got the Shotgun
  • The Dave D. Taylor Blues
  • Into Sandy's City
  • The Demon's Dead
  • Message of the Archvile
  • Bye Bye American Pie
  • Getting Too Tense
  • Evil Incarnate
  • The Ultimate Challenge
  • Intermission Music
• Tracks from Doom 3:
  • Main theme
  • Cyberdeath
• Tracks from Doom 2016:
  • BFG Division (Obviously)
  • Rip & Tear
  • Rust, Dust and Guts
  • Flesh & Metal
  • Harbinger
  • Transistor Fist
  • Cyberdemon
  • Damnation
  • UAC Report File; SHTO36U3
  • Skullhacker
  • Vega Core
  • Mastermind
• Tracks from DOOM Eternal: TBA
• Tracks from other Id games:
  • Get Them Before They Get You (Wolfenstein)
  • Quake
  • Quake II:
    • Operation Overlord
    • Rage
    • Quad Machine
    • Descent into Cerberon
    • Gravity Well
    • Counter Attack
    • Crashed Up Again
  • Wolfenstein: The New Order
    • The New Order
    • Kill Everyone
    • Kybernetik
    • Prototype

 

[doomguywhen1993]

With the music, i'm sure you could also get some TNT/64 material.
Same for other id series with Spear of Destiny, RTCW and Quake 3.
And speaking of Doomguy as an FPS rep, we could look at this reasons for him to be the best at that.
* Doom pushed the genre to the point it was refered to Doom clone at some point.
* Speaking of Wolfenstein and Quake, you could bring up links like how they share elements, features, assets or have hints of sharing the same universe.
* Doomguy is canonically strong and even his something like his speed is mentioned as one of his strenghts, which means the story and gameplay mix up a lot, apparently.
* He's meant to represent the player, which fits for a first person genre.
* The series is still alive with a successfull reboot, an upcoming game and has a legacy with a vast and big modding scene, huge fanbase, ports and a lot more ("Doom is Eternal").
* Doom also did more than pushing the FPS genre, since there could be a lot of stories to tell about a legendary game like Doom.
* The reboot and Eternal feel like a mix of old and new elements from the genre as if it were a celebration of what Doom made happen, along with some elements that sort of make Doomguy have more in common with characters from other genres.
* Speaking of representing other FPS games, Doom 3 had reloading and was sort of HL inspired, it even copied the Gravity Gun.
* Doomguy is (Or at least was) a space marine, which is a popular character type in this genre.
* Shooting is what he's best at and what he does most of the time, according to the plot and gameplay.
* He even had his own face in the HUD.
* He's one of the genre's strongest characters ahd reached a point he now has a lot of weapons and tools at his arsenal.
* In Quake 3, he was literally named "Doom".
If you ever thought someone like Ryu is the embodiment of the fighting game genre, then Doomguy is like that but with first person shooters.
With these points mentioned above, he just feels more deserving of that criteria than other characters.
And going back to the topic of representation, there's how Smash represents some series and then there's how id software does fanservice.
When id software does fanservice, i feel like it could go a lot of ways.
It can come off as expected but neat and serviceable like secret rooms based off classic Doom levels and some known recurring jokes.
You could have something cool like Eternal bringing back older designs or that Doom 64 chainsaw in the Doomhunter.
Or you could have the case with Quake Champions getting some bits wrong (Refering to Doom 3 armor pick ups as magazine ammo).
I think the 25 years of Doom video was interesting because while it was great, it also didn't show Doom 64 or other games, it used the BFG edition of Doom 1 (Which is kinda unfitting in the 1993 setting they have in the video) and the "mods" section was more about ports rather than the WAD/source port thing that existed since Origwad, which means "mods" and "ports" could have been different sections in the video.
Of course, you can't always expect much for fanservice and i guess it depends on who's making that sort of content.
I guess it's more of a case of how Doom is seen in pop culture and how it sometimes can be different from what the games actually are, be it with some of the memes about Doom or stuff like someone playing the games for the first time with an unfaithfull source port.
Now this feels like i'm leaning way too much for an unrelated topic and worrying about minor things.
Anyway, i thought about Doomguy having a render with a Doom cover inspired pose: He'd try to mimic the pose but i was thinking about whether or not he'd look at the viewer in the render and if an helmetless skin would allow him to look directly to the viewer with a funny expression like he's going "RIP AND TEAR" as a little nod to the comic.

 

[Untouch]

I wonder how many people who think the guns in DOOM are too realistic know that the guns are modeled after sci-fi toys?

 

[Captain Hazama]

View attachment 184733

I wonder how many people who think the guns in DOOM are too realistic know that the guns are modeled after sci-fi toys?

Even still, they fire realistic bullets. That's a no no for Smash. Engery base weapons are okay or explosive weapons. That's why Snake only has explosives instead of guns.

 

[GolisoPower]

Even still, they fire realistic bullets. That's a no no for Smash.

I could argue that Bayonetta fires realistic bullets, but they’re magical.

On the other hand, if Joker manages to use his handgun, I’d say this argument would be kind of moot.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

View attachment 184733

I wonder how many people who think the guns in DOOM are too realistic know that the guns are modeled after sci-fi toys?

I forgot about that. Still somthing like a double barrel shotgun is still a very realistic gun. More then Bayo's blue bedazzled guns or the Star Fox lazer pistols.

That why I'm interested in seeing if Joker will have his gun. Since it looks like a straight up hand gun. Even though it is ironically a toy model itself.

 

[PublicServant]

I forgot about that. Still somthing like a double barrel shotgun is still a very realistic gun. More then Bayo's blue bedazzled guns or the Star Fox lazer pistols.

That why I'm interested in seeing if Joker will have his gun. Since it looks like a straight up hand gun. Even though it is ironically a toy model itself.

I dunno. With the futuristic/fantastic design of the weapons in 2016/Eternal, most if not all of them could be given a pass.

If Joker still has his gun, however, the floodgates will have been opened just a little bit more.

 

[TerminatorLOL]

I dunno. With the futuristic/fantastic design of the weapons in 2016/Eternal, most if not all of them could be given a pass.

If Joker still has his gun, however, the floodgates will have been opened just a little bit more.

I know, that's why I called out the Super Shotgun specially (grappling hook add on or not, it's still a double barrel shotgun)

This was the list of weapons I thought could be passable before.

Since Smash has a thing against realistic looking guns (except for explosive ones like Snake's RPG, grenade launcher, and mortar)

He would have to limit him self to weapons like the plasma gun, rocket launcher, BFG 9000, and gauss cannon. And maybe some of Doom 4's multiplayer weapons like the hellshot, grenade launcher, lighting gun, reaper, and vortex rifle. The new shoulder rocket launcher/flamethrower could also work.

I personally don't see a real issue with the chainsaw. I mean its a tree cutting tool and Smash kinda already has one and a buzzsaw .

Then just mix in some punches and kicks that mimic his glory kills and you can make a decent move set.

Edit: add the ballista, arm blade, engery sword and soul cube to the list.

 

[PublicServant]

I know, that's why I called out the Super Shotgun specially (grappling hook add on or not, it's still a double barrel shotgun)

This was the list of weapons I thought could be passable before.

The problem there is that the marketing (and what looks like the lore pointing towards the Eternal SSG being a weapon of great personal significance) is that the Super Shotgun has turned into the Doom Slayer's signature weapon; not including it would be like stripping Gordon Freeman of his Crowbar (or Gravity Gun to a lesser extent) or the Blades of Chaos/Leviathan from Kratos.

 

[Geassguy]

not including it would be like stripping Gordon Freeman of his Crowbar (or Gravity Gun to a lesser extent) or the Blades of Chaos/Leviathan from Kratos.

It IS pretty iconic to him, but TBH I'd take a SSG-less Doomguy over no Doomguy.

But that said, IMO it's moot, I think they can tweak it enough to make it safe.
Imply the pellets are magical like Bayo's (especially if there's no ammo mechanic), I'm sure Id would be fine with that. If they did that, and then you factor in the completely fantastical (where is the chain even stored?) grappling hook bayonet and it's not a "realistic" SSG anymore, even if it still kinda looks and sounds a bit realistic.

 

[Untouch]

For the most part, I don't think ESRB cares about guns being represented, only fired.
There are realistic guns in the game already, Captain Falcon has one, several MGS spirits have realistic guns.
Having the SSG as a taunt or something seems plausible.

 

[Room100]

For the most part, I don't think ESRB cares about guns being represented, only fired.
There are realistic guns in the game already, Captain Falcon has one, several MGS spirits have realistic guns.
Having the SSG as a taunt or something seems plausible.

I still really feel like if they use big cartoony shots like Mii Gunner everything is okay

 

[jokermelee]

so a little bit of interesting news regarding leaks, a little while ago on the 10th of December a leak was posted on 5ch about Joker, a little bit of his moveset, stage, and so forth, but also about Erdrick as well along with some pieces about his moveset and stage. this leak also contained info on a Granblue fighting game made by Arc System Works which was yet to be revealed until a few days later, which gave that leak some credibility.

however, it has recently come to light that another leak was posted to 5ch that was posted a couple hours before on the 9th, containing a lot more info including even more characters, including our very own Doomguy (although he's referred to as "Marine" in the leak). a translation of the 5ch post was posted in another thread here on Smashboards which you can take a look at here. another thing that gave both of these leaks some credibility was the inclusion of P5R in these leak, which was actually just teased/announced today. although the domain of the P5R and many other domains were registered by Atlus around a year ago, it might not hold as much weight. but it did leak acouple weeks before it was announced, so that should count for something.

because of the way the leak calls Doomguy "Marine" and how it says Doom 64 outfit is an alt, I think it might be somewhat legit. Doomguy was originally a fan name given to him since he had no name, he was an unnamed MARINE in both Doom 1+2 and 64, the name Doomguy was only used in spin off games like Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 and Quake Champions but never the mainline games. he was only ever given an actual name in Doom 2016 with his new name being Doom Slayer, but his older versions never got a name. even John Romero has stated that Doomguy doesn't have a name because it's supposed to be the player who's playing Doom, so naming him "Marine" still makes sense in that aspect.

i might have missed a few things, but that's basically the jist of it as far as i'm aware. of course, we'll have to wait and see, both leaks have said Erdrick with DQXI Luminary and DQX Anlucia pallet swaps. so if those come true then it gives possible hope for Doomguy coming soon in the future

 

[Graizen]

Count me in as a supporter

 

[TerminatorLOL]

The problem there is that the marketing (and what looks like the lore pointing towards the Eternal SSG being a weapon of great personal significance) is that the Super Shotgun has turned into the Doom Slayer's signature weapon; not including it would be like stripping Gordon Freeman of his Crowbar (or Gravity Gun to a lesser extent) or the Blades of Chaos/Leviathan from Kratos.

I don't really agree, I don't think the Super Shot is that much more important then his other weapons. I would also consider something like the BFG to be more of the series signature weapon since that always the first gun I think of when I think DOOM.

If haveing realistic looking guns fire realistic ammunition is to much for Smash's rating, then I think that focus on his more Scifi guns like the Plasma Gun over the Super Shotgun is a small price to pay. But I would of course prefer if he could keep his boom stick.

 

[GolisoPower]

If haveing realistic looking guns fire realistic ammunition is to much for Smash's rating, then I think that focus on his more Scifi guns like the Plasma Gun over the Super Shotgun is a small price to pay. But I would of course prefer if he could keep his boom stick.

If the Super Shotgun DOES make it into Doom Slayer’s moveset, I’d say let the muzzle flare deal the damage, like in the old Looney Tunes cartoons.

 

[PublicServant]

so a little bit of interesting news regarding leaks, a little while ago on the 10th of December a leak was posted on 5ch about Joker, a little bit of his moveset, stage, and so forth, but also about Erdrick as well along with some pieces about his moveset and stage. this leak also contained info on a Granblue fighting game made by Arc System Works which was yet to be revealed until a few days later, which gave that leak some credibility.

however, it has recently come to light that another leak was posted to 5ch that was posted a couple hours before on the 9th, containing a lot more info including even more characters, including our very own Doomguy (although he's referred to as "Marine" in the leak). a translation of the 5ch post was posted in another thread here on Smashboards which you can take a look at here. another thing that gave both of these leaks some credibility was the inclusion of P5R in these leak, which was actually just teased/announced today. although the domain of the P5R and many other domains were registered by Atlus around a year ago, it might not hold as much weight. but it did leak acouple weeks before it was announced, so that should count for something.

because of the way the leak calls Doomguy "Marine" and how it says Doom 64 outfit is an alt, I think it might be somewhat legit. Doomguy was originally a fan name given to him since he had no name, he was an unnamed MARINE in both Doom 1+2 and 64, the name Doomguy was only used in spin off games like Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 and Quake Champions but never the mainline games. he was only ever given an actual name in Doom 2016 with his new name being Doom Slayer, but his older versions never got a name. even John Romero has stated that Doomguy doesn't have a name because it's supposed to be the player who's playing Doom, so naming him "Marine" still makes sense in that aspect.

i might have missed a few things, but that's basically the jist of it as far as i'm aware. of course, we'll have to wait and see, both leaks have said Erdrick with DQXI Luminary and DQX Anlucia pallet swaps. so if those come true then it gives possible hope for Doomguy coming soon in the future

Yeah, with the past history the Smash community has had with being burned by leaks in the past, I'm taking this with an iceberg-sized mass of sea salt.

Interesting how Chief is going to be represented as a Steve skin, which is both somewhat appropriate (both being MS IPs), weird and somewhat insulting to the Halo community (you think they would've had him as an Assist Trophy or Spirit at the very least, but no; he becomes a pixelated, glorified Mii costume plastered over the face of MS' second golden goose).

The Marine leak does technically line up well, since Doom 3's protagonist was referred to as the Doom Marine. But the fact that he's been leaked so early from his planned release date (which is likely to be near the end of the year) means that I'm far from bringing my hopes up more than they currently are, to the degree that I'm calling this leak bulls h i t. Any leaker worth his salt can scrounge up enough "evidence" to make a leak look credible, which is a pitfall that has claimed the hopes and dreams of many a player and YouTuber upon reveal.

But as you said, if the projected lineup progressively comes to fruition, I'll be sure to keep a close eye on things.

If the Super Shotgun DOES make it into Doom Slayer’s moveset, I’d say let the muzzle flare deal the damage, like in the old Looney Tunes cartoons.

Aye, totally. If they have it where the bullets are presented as streaks of light as opposed to actual visible projectiles (they way most games tend to show bullets as), then it could very likely give it a pass. Heck, they could also have it where the ballistic weapons don't eject any spent ammo casings/shells if they want to be safe.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Being honest, I’ve only ever used the super shotgun conservatively in whatever game it’s been in (Doom II, Doom 3 Resurrection of Evil, etc) as a mixup option against Hell Knights and such depending on the situation, but it is rewarding when you get effective kills with it, just using it regularly is a bit too much an ammo drain for my liking since each shot uses two shotgun shells.

I guess the weapon has become a bit more iconic to Doomslayer as of late, though not sure if I would call it a must-have, but a cool option either way.

And yeah, not jumping on the leak train.

 

[Geassguy]

Not gonna lie, "Marine" actually feels like what they'd settle on, and having his retro look being drawn from Doom 64 would be pretty cool...
but yeah, def gonna wait and see if any of the rest of the "leak" lines up in the future before I start giving it any credence whatsoever.

If it does end up being true though, honestly as a Halo fan, I'd love MC in there in any capacity. ****it I'll take a Steve skin, IMO it would fan the flames for the idea of chief in smash, which is good IMO.

 

[GolisoPower]

so a little bit of interesting news regarding leaks, a little while ago on the 10th of December a leak was posted on 5ch about Joker, a little bit of his moveset, stage, and so forth, but also about Erdrick as well along with some pieces about his moveset and stage. this leak also contained info on a Granblue fighting game made by Arc System Works which was yet to be revealed until a few days later, which gave that leak some credibility.

however, it has recently come to light that another leak was posted to 5ch that was posted a couple hours before on the 9th, containing a lot more info including even more characters, including our very own Doomguy (although he's referred to as "Marine" in the leak). a translation of the 5ch post was posted in another thread here on Smashboards which you can take a look at here. another thing that gave both of these leaks some credibility was the inclusion of P5R in these leak, which was actually just teased/announced today. although the domain of the P5R and many other domains were registered by Atlus around a year ago, it might not hold as much weight. but it did leak acouple weeks before it was announced, so that should count for something.

because of the way the leak calls Doomguy "Marine" and how it says Doom 64 outfit is an alt, I think it might be somewhat legit. Doomguy was originally a fan name given to him since he had no name, he was an unnamed MARINE in both Doom 1+2 and 64, the name Doomguy was only used in spin off games like Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3 and Quake Champions but never the mainline games. he was only ever given an actual name in Doom 2016 with his new name being Doom Slayer, but his older versions never got a name. even John Romero has stated that Doomguy doesn't have a name because it's supposed to be the player who's playing Doom, so naming him "Marine" still makes sense in that aspect.

i might have missed a few things, but that's basically the jist of it as far as i'm aware. of course, we'll have to wait and see, both leaks have said Erdrick with DQXI Luminary and DQX Anlucia pallet swaps. so if those come true then it gives possible hope for Doomguy coming soon in the future

Now this could go either way, like all big leaks.

Erdrick, I have very little knowledge of, or that of Dragon Quest for that matter, but it would be interesting to see as a playable character. And lemme be honest here: I'd laugh really hard if Square is more generous about their DQ content than their FF content.

Ryu Hayabusa is in the same situation as Simon: a third party with a very big presence back in the NES days. After researching a bit of Ninja Gaiden, I'd love this guy in Smash. Also, I'll bet his trailer would replicate the NG intro with Ryu and someone like Greninja or Sheik. Though they would have to use different sound bytes for the announcer like Roy with the Koopaling and the Redhead.

Steve, I wouldn't really be against. The fact that he would have a Master Chief skin would really put the idea of Master Chief in Smash in people's brains, like Geass said. Now there are a lot of people opposed to Steve, but I'm willing to bet that they're more hating the community (I mean, I know all communities have a dark side to them, but gotdam!) than the game itself, which a lot of people still seem to enjoy. And after seeing the animated player textures in the Minecraft Dungeons trailer, I'd say Sakurai could bring more life than people would let in on. If Sakurai could make people think Incineroar was cool, then I'd have very little doubt that he'd make people think Steve is cool.

And then the piece de resistance, our main goal: Doomguy. Calling him simply 'Marine' doesn't sound too appealing to me, and would very much prefer to have him called 'Doom Slayer' like the games do, but if people wanna call him that, I won't hold it against them. A Doom 64 costume is interesting, as the only appearances I've grown attached to are the Classic, 2016 and Eternal designs.

 

[Geassguy]

Calling him simply 'Marine' doesn't sound too appealing to me, and would very much prefer to have him called 'Doom Slayer' like the games do, but if people wanna call him that, I won't hold it against them.

IMO it kinda tracks, I wouldn't be surprised if they viewed the "Doom" in both "Doom" Slayer and "Doom" Marine (two of the only real official titles he's had) as maybe redundant... or whatev? Like they just didn't feel having the title of his series in his name was right? So they just went with Marine (which I can actually hear the smash announcer saying...)
Basically, no it's not the most standard interpretation of his name I've seen, but I could see it coming from Nintendo/Sora/Bandai Namco.

Either way, we shall see. I can't decide if the detail about the Doom 64 alt look is in the realm of "too good to be true" or not tbh.
Ryu Hayabusa tho, I could definitely see him happening, particularly with a retro, original NG look. That would be dope.

 

[jokermelee]

Either way, we shall see. I can't decide if the detail about the Doom 64 alt look is in the realm of "too good to be true" or not tbh.
Ryu Hayabusa tho, I could definitely see him happening, particularly with a retro, original NG look. That would be dope.

something i forgot to mention in my initial post, upon looking into the leak, i also thought the Doom N64 alt seemed a bit off, so i did some digging, and i actually might have found out why they chose it as an alt.

this was an old Japanese Doom 64 commercial from 1997, which leads me to believe that Nintendo advertised for it in Japan. this probably lead to more people at least knowing about Doom 64 than any other version. so them including the Doom 64 skin as an alt might be so both the Japanese and Western audiences who grew up with that game will know the game it's from.

 

[cmbsfm]

Erdrick is 90 percent happening at this point imo. If he winds having the Anulica and Luminary alts, then things will start looking good for this leak imo.

 

[Untouch]

Erdrick is feeling very likely, which is making me thing that DOOMguy will be too.
DQ3 is a VERY Japanese choice to me, DQ8 and DQXI are way more popular in the West, which makes me think that ensuring that all characters appeal internationally wasn't priority.
Also goes along with my theory on how characters were picked.

 

[Serialkillerwhale]

If you think about it, the order makes sense. The more internationally marketable characters are saved for E3, set in LA, while Erdick and Ryu are both more attractive to not only the Japanese audience than the International one, but also to their old fanbase, and people who keep up to date on this stuff/watch directs more.

I think it's an intentional choice to add two Americans that appeal to very different crowds during E3. That's the kind of cold marketing logic that you don't often see in leaks, and both are fairly popular in Japan compared to other possible choices, especially Steve. At the same time, much like how Ken and Incineroar could be announced in the same video due to sharing the core thematic of being fighters, allowing for the same "script" to show both off one after the other, Steve's journey into the Nether as part of Minecraft's lategame, adds potential script for the E3 reveal trailer.

Take a character in over their head, like say, Ice Climbers or Woomy, and have them stuck inside a cave. Then have Steve dig his way into that cave and offer a helping hand. Cut to Steve's in-game footage. Followed by a series of fireballs raining down on them from large forms in the distance and the two being pinned, and then in comes the Slayer to blast the large forms (now revealed to be Cacodemons, rather than the implied Ghasts) apart with his rocket launcher, and his own sequence. Then a funny bit where the Doom Slayer takes the time to permanently destroy Steve's Nether Portal as they exit it.

 

[doomguywhen1993]

A solution that was once thought for firearms was some of them having NES Zapper colors and shooting Bullet Bills but that would be too "creative".
I also remembering hearing something about how it was Kojima that didn't wanted Snake carrying some realistic firearms but that's probably not true.
Some classic weapons had hitscan, so you could assume it's not really bullets/shells but rather some weird UAC technology that involves a reference to hitscan and Doom's source doe.
As for the leak, as much as i want our Doom boy in, i feel like i should keep my expectations for him low.
Doom 64 even being brought up makes it more interesting since that game is technically in trademark limbo, which is why id software only brings it up in some occasions.

 

[PublicServant]

Marine could either be a working title or just what those individuals on 5ch referred to him as (keep in mind that this is a Japanese website we're talking about; things are bound to be lost in translation/interpretation)

something i forgot to mention in my initial post, upon looking into the leak, i also thought the Doom N64 alt seemed a bit off, so i did some digging, and i actually might have found out why they chose it as an alt.

this was an old Japanese Doom 64 commercial from 1997, which leads me to believe that Nintendo advertised for it in Japan. this probably lead to more people at least knowing about Doom 64 than any other version. so them including the Doom 64 skin as an alt might be so both the Japanese and Western audiences who grew up with that game will know the game it's from.

Including Doom 64 makes a lot of sense in hindsight since... well, it's Nintendo we're talking about. They'd probably want to prioritise the highlight of when Doomguy was on their consoles (in an exclusive, no less).

If you think about it, the order makes sense. The more internationally marketable characters are saved for E3, set in LA, while Erdick and Ryu are both more attractive to not only the Japanese audience than the International one, but also to their old fanbase, and people who keep up to date on this stuff/watch directs more.

I think it's an intentional choice to add two Americans that appeal to very different crowds during E3. That's the kind of cold marketing logic that you don't often see in leaks, and both are fairly popular in Japan compared to other possible choices, especially Steve. At the same time, much like how Ken and Incineroar could be announced in the same video due to sharing the core thematic of being fighters, allowing for the same "script" to show both off one after the other, Steve's journey into the Nether as part of Minecraft's lategame, adds potential script for the E3 reveal trailer.

Take a character in over their head, like say, Ice Climbers or Woomy, and have them stuck inside a cave. Then have Steve dig his way into that cave and offer a helping hand. Cut to Steve's in-game footage. Followed by a series of fireballs raining down on them from large forms in the distance and the two being pinned, and then in comes the Slayer to blast the large forms (now revealed to be Cacodemons, rather than the implied Ghasts) apart with his rocket launcher, and his own sequence. Then a funny bit where the Doom Slayer takes the time to permanently destroy Steve's Nether Portal as they exit it.

As cool and hilarious that sounds, I'm fairly certain plenty supporters from either community would accuse each others character of undermining/overshadowing the other.
In addition, it'd probably be better for audience retention if the trailers capped either end of the Smash presentation (as it usually has gone in the past); opening strong and retaining viewers until the final reveal.

 

[Kzinssie]

I think the "no real guns" thing is a relic of the video game violence debate that was such a big deal when Brawl came out. These days nobody cares about Fortnite and Overwatch marketing to kids with cartoony but realistic guns, and Bayonetta is in Smash with slightly stylized guns, so I don't think it's a particularly notable obstacle.

 

[Geassguy]

Including Doom 64 makes a lot of sense in hindsight since... well, it's Nintendo we're talking about. They'd probably want to prioritise the highlight of when Doomguy was on their consoles (in an exclusive, no less).

This is true. The only thing that throws Doom 64 related stuff into doubt for me at least is the questionable status of Doom 64 itself. Who even owns the rights to it anymore? But still, making a skin based on his design in Doom 64 probably wouldn't be an issue at least.

Hell putting in music from Doom 64 should even be do-able as well. If I'm not mistaken the original composer Aubry Hodges actually has the rights to the music. I mean he can sell it.

I think the "no real guns" thing is a relic of the video game violence debate that was such a big deal when Brawl came out. These days nobody cares about Fortnite and Overwatch marketing to kids with cartoony but realistic guns, and Bayonetta is in Smash with slightly stylized guns, so I don't think it's a particularly notable obstacle.

Agreed. No one from the dev team as far as I know has even talked about it in recent years, and Snake's moveset wasn't going to change much anyways. Some may be putting too much stock in this particular hurdle.

 

[EarlTamm]

Hey guys, how do you think they would reveal Doomguy as a character if they made a trailer for him like Joker?

 

[Kzinssie]

End of the Doom Eternal Switch trailer. Terrified UAC employee approaches Doomslayer with a "special delivery, addressed to you specifically." Doomguy snatches the letter from him as he runs away. Turns it over, Smash seal. SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE x DOOM

 

[EarlTamm]

End of the Doom Eternal Switch trailer. Terrified UAC employee approaches Doomslayer with a "special delivery, addressed to you specifically." Doomguy snatches the letter from him as he runs away. Turns it over, Smash seal. SUPER SMASH BROS ULTIMATE x DOOM

I definitely think they would do the Doomguy reveal in the game engine for maximum surprise. It's part of the reason the Joker reveal was so good. There is also no better way to represent the character than from his own perspective.

Edit: Happy New Year!

 

[PublicServant]

Hey guys, how do you think they would reveal Doomguy as a character if they made a trailer for him like Joker?

I refer to me moveset again:

Intro Trailer

Smash Ultimate "New Fighter" intro splash

The trailer begins in an arena made of a yellow-brown stone and adorned with various red, glowing runes, many of which bear a resemblance to demonic iconography. The arena itself sits upon one of many floating islands hanging over a void of orange clouds and possesses a long, bridge-like path leading to a tall fortress adorned with a goatlike skull.
Pit, Dark Pit and Palutena are locked in an intense scrap with Spirit-clones of Bayonetta, Bowser and Ridley in the hellish arena, the latter trio quickly gaining the upper hand before defeating the Light Goddess and her angelic compatriots. Spirit-Bayonetta and her demonlike allies look down upon the battered heroes, the witch-clone motioning to allies to restrain them as Palutena weakly states "We'll never become soulless husks like you", which Bayonetta ignores.

Music begins to set in as the fighters are suddenly interrupted by a distant screech, as the doors of the demonic fortress are raised and waves of creatures begin pouring out. The creatures are of varying sizes and appearances: scrawny, implike humanoids; flying creatures resembling gargoyles; pink-coloured armoured beasts; muscular humanoids with smooth, skull-like heads; enormous, bipedal monsters possessing crimson skin, cloven hooves and goat horns; and floating, cyclopean spheres of red or brown. The monsters make a beeline towards the arena, the grounded creatures scrambling over and pushing each other out of the way as they cross the bridge, with several of them falling into the abyss below.

The witch-clone and her reptilian allies ready themselves for the oncoming horde... only for the creatures to part and avoid the fighters, running either side of them and jumping to other nearby islands; almost as if they were running away from something. Bowser and Ridley look at each other with confused expressions and look to Bayonetta, who is looking towards the fortress gate with a steely gaze. The two reptiles look towards the gate, only to be shocked by what they see.

The trailer cuts to fortress from the fighters' perspective, where the silhouette of a bulky humanoid is seen standing amidst the orange glow from the open doorway. Cut to the first-person perspective of a familiar Heads-Up Display, which begins to scan the 6 fighters. Cut to various close-up views of the mysterious newcomer, including: a heavy green chest plate; a studded left gauntlet with a retracted blade, which pans up to reveal a shoulder-mounted cannon; and an exposed right bicep, which pans down the arm to show a double-barrelled shotgun - decorated with various inscriptions and a two-pronged blade attached to the underside - being held in the hand. Cut back to the HUD, which has identified the Angel Land protectors as "Safe" and the latter victors as " RIP AND TEAR".

Cut to a shot of the newcomer's head or rather, helmet, where subtle facial figures can be seen through the visor. The shot pans backwards away from the head, revealing a massive, imposing figure in a green carapace-like armour reloading his shotgun, with the barrels being snapped into place as the music drops into the iconic riff from At DOOM's Gate.

THE DOOM SLAYER RIPS AND TEARS INTO BATTLE!

The Doom Slayer then charges his three victims at a full sprint, who respond by firing off pistol volleys and fireballs the Slayer's direction. He suddenly pulls out a black and red-accented Rocket Launcher, which he then fires at his feet to send him flying high above his victims. He re-equips the Super Shotgun in mid-air, before landing between the two groups and taking aim at his victims. The music finishes as the trailer cuts to the Smash logo right as the SSG fires.

Super Smash Bros: Ultimate
X
DOOM

 

[Primid]

Any chance I can be added to the supporters list? Doomguy's been at the top of my most wanted for awhile and it actually seems like his chances of getting in this time are pretty significant thanks to recent rumors.

 

[cmbsfm]

Even though 5chan leak is probably fake, I’d love that line up soo much. Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa would be awesome newcomers.

 

[EarlTamm]

Even though 5chan leak is probably fake, I’d love that line up soo much. Doomguy and Ryu Hayabusa would be awesome newcomers.

I don't dislike any of the characters on it, but I certainly have characters I want more, specifically when it comes to the Square rep. I still think it is a good list if real, which is up in the air.

 

[PublicServant]

I don't dislike any of the characters on it, but I certainly have characters I want more, specifically when it comes to the Square rep. I still think it is a good list if real, which is up in the air.

Aye, that's the thing I don't get about this leak; if Square is so stingy with Cloud, why would they go as far as to allow Sakurai the use of another IP of their's?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Aye, that's the thing I don't get about this leak; if Square is so stingy with Cloud, why would they go as far as to allow Sakurai the use of another IP of their's?

They'd get more money from sales of Square DLC than the base game.

 

[jokermelee]

They'd get more money from sales of Square DLC than the base game.

that's the thing though, they were extremely stingy with Cloud even when he was DLC for Smash 4, when they making money off of his inclusion. back then he only had 2 songs, the same 2 songs he has Ultimate. the only difference in Ultimate is that he has 2 Spirits now, but those are based on his Smash artwork, and not from Square

 

[RileyXY1]

Aye, that's the thing I don't get about this leak; if Square is so stingy with Cloud, why would they go as far as to allow Sakurai the use of another IP of their's?

And, one that has rights issues at that.