At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

[RileyXY1]

Not sure what the circumstances of Carmack leaving was, but with the awesome state Doom’s been in again these last couple years, maybe it was for the best? I don’t know, but him tweeting that even if as a joke was interesting nonetheless.

Carmack left because he was upset that Bethesda dropped Oculus Rift support from Doom 3: BFG Edition. ZeniMax (who owns Bethesda) would later sue Facebook (who owns Oculus Rift) claiming that Carmack developed most of the Oculus tech while still employed at id Software.

 

[doomguywhen1993]

You know how some characters like Inkling and Sonic have some special interactions with water?
In the original Doom engine, you'd walk on water just because liquids were just floors with specific animated textures.
Imagine if in a stage with water, Doomguy is just able to stand and walk on water.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Carmack left because he was upset that Bethesda dropped Oculus Rift support from Doom 3: BFG Edition. ZeniMax (who owns Bethesda) would later sue Facebook (who owns Oculus Rift) claiming that Carmack developed most of the Oculus tech while still employed at id Software.

Ah. That sucks, but is understandable. Man, with how much more horror themed Doom 3 and the expansions were than the others, picturing that in Oculus Rift/VR is terrifying, in a good way.

 

[cmbsfm]

If we’re getting Erdrick/DQ representation, then it’s only fair we rep the West with Doomguy.

 

[Blue_Sword_Edge]

If John Carmack is serious about the Doomguy for Smash thing, that's a cool thing for us.

 

[PublicServant]

I went ahead and mocked up a classic mode run for Doomguy, how does this look?

Spoiler

Charizard - Pinky
Dark Samus - Revenant
Ridley - Arch-Vile
Kirby (hoard) - Cacodemon
Bowser - Baron of Hell
Bayonetta - Olivia Pierce
Beast Ganon - Cyberdemon

Pretty interesting mockup you got here. I assume these guys would be equipped with different spirits to better emulate their demon?
I did something similar when making my own moveset, though I didn't accompany it with images of the fighters, just loads of text:

Unique Fights (Classic Mode/Event Match)

• Stamina match against multiple weak Marios who attack by constantly throwing fireballs and punching the Slayer when he's close. References the classic Imps.
• Stamina match against multiple average-health Warios (Pink+Blue alt) only using Chomp. Halfway through the fight, Warios begin to use the Wario Bike in addition to the Chomp. While on the bike, the Warios won't attempt to change direction unless after hitting a solid wall and take reduced damage from frontal attacks. References the classic and modern interpretations of the Pinky Demons.
• Stamina match against two giant Luigis constantly throwing high-damage fireballs. References the Barons of Hell, specifically the fight against the twin Barons in E1M8 (Phobos Anomaly), the last level from Doom 1's first episode, Knee Deep in the Dead. Bonus points if Sign of Evil is used for this fight.
• Stamina match against a giant Charizard, which has indefinite flight and can only attack with Fireball Cannon (if custom specials are retained in Ultimate) and Flare Blitz. Timers will periodically spawn over the course of the battle, of which only the Doom Slayer can use. References the fight against the Maledict (the final boss of Doom 3: Resurrection of Evil), with the Timers replicating the time-slowing properties of The Artifact/Heart of Hell. Bonus point if the Doom 3 Theme is used for this fight.
• Stamina Match against the Slayer with the "Ranger" alt: Moves around primarily by rocket-jumping around the stage, attacking with Shotgun, Super Shotgun. Quad Damage powerup spawns near "Ranger" occasionally throughout the match. Bonus points if any of the above Quake tracks (especially Descent into Cerberon) is used for this fight.
• Stamina Match against the Slayer with the "Blazkowics" alt: Increased weight and decreased speed; primarily attacks with the Chaingun, Heavy Cannon and Pistol (carries no Shotgun/Plasma gun). Chicken drumsticks regularly spawn near "BJ" throughout the match. Bonus points if Evil Incarnate, the Ultimate Challenge or any of the above Wolfenstein music is used for this fight.
• Stamina Boss Fight against the Cyberdemon boss. Bonus points if Nobody Told Me About Id, Cyberdeath or Cyberdemon is used for this fight.
• Stamina Match against the Jeanne-alt Bayonetta, who attacks primarily through Bullet Arts. Once defeated, the Spider Mastermind boss is summoned. Once it's health runs low, a Smash Ball is spawned and the Mastermind won't take any damage from attacks besides a Final Smash. References Olivia Pierce, her transformation into the Spider Mastermind and the subsequent boss fight. Bonus points if Facing the Spider or Mastermind is used for the fight.

 

[PublicServant]

You know how some characters like Inkling and Sonic have some special interactions with water?
In the original Doom engine, you'd walk on water just because liquids were just floors with specific animated textures.
Imagine if in a stage with water, Doomguy is just able to stand and walk on water.

So he'd be literally Jesus?

 

[Untouch]

Maybe I'm actually losing my mind, but why is this trailer rated Teen instead of E10?

Is this foreshadowing something? I hope so. Joker's trailer was rated E10 as well so it's not that.
Nothing to do with Online either.

edit: Nevermind looks like it's to do with XB2 at the end, odd.

 

[cmbsfm]

Maybe I'm actually losing my mind, but why is this trailer rated Teen instead of E10?

Is this foreshadowing something? I hope so. Joker's trailer was rated E10 as well so it's not that.
Nothing to do with Online either.

edit: Nevermind looks like it's to do with XB2 at the end, odd.

I think it could be due to the other games they show at the end.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think it could be due to the other games they show at the end.

Yeah, the August Direct also needed a T rating in order to show Melee footage to compare the graphics.

 

[jokermelee]

I think it could be due to the other games they show at the end.

yeah i just checked the official ESRB rating for Ultimate, it's still E-10+, nothing has changed for it really

 

[PublicServant]

I've been noticing a bit of a rabble of support for the Doom Slayer beginning to pop up over at r/Doom. However, it seems that this vouching is directed towards his inclusion into the next Mortal Kombat title.
While I would no doubt appreciate his inclusion in either game, I feel that the Slayer's moveset potential could be better realised in Smash, with the only real net positive of having him featured using Mortal Kombat's stiff fighting style would be the preservation of the extreme violence and gore.
What are everyone's thoughts on this predicament?

 

[Looma]

Doomguy in MK sounds awesome and he would fit right in as long as he was implemented properly. That said, implementing him is a tall task. Doomguy is fast, I feel like that's a trait of his that often gets looked over in favor of the pools of gore he creates. Trying to fit blinding speed into Mortal Kombat would be a very delicate procedure, because he either breaks the game or doesn't feel like Doomguy anymore if you go too far in either direction. Doom is more than just ripping demon's lungs out, you gotta have maneuverability on top of that. Doomguy needs to run, strafe, shoot, run while shooting, jump (depending on game), AND rip demon's lungs out. It'd be incredibly cool to see it work but I doubt that Sub-Zero can keep up.

Ironically, the game with Mario and Pikachu in it just seems like a better fit for our man'o'gore. MK is slow and stiff which works well for characters like Jason Vorhees and Kratos, while Smash is faster and far more limber to the point that it could accommodate the likes of Sonic the Hedgehog and Ridley. Speaking of, Ridley's cruel personality is encapsulated really well in Smash with no issues. Doomguy could definitely be his normal angry self, being as rough as he likes with the rest of the cast. Obviously Pikachu's lungs are off limits, but that's pretty easy to work around considering how Smash functions as a game.

I feel that speed and brutality is more integral to Doomguy's character than actual visible gore.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

I've been noticing a bit of a rabble of support for the Doom Slayer beginning to pop up over at r/Doom. However, it seems that this vouching is directed towards his inclusion into the next Mortal Kombat title.
While I would no doubt appreciate his inclusion in either game, I feel that the Slayer's moveset potential could be better realised in Smash, with the only real net positive of having him featured using Mortal Kombat's stiff fighting style would be the preservation of the extreme violence and gore.
What are everyone's thoughts on this predicament?

Tone wise I completely get why Doom Guy would be far better fitting for MK than Smash. They're gonna have to really tone down Doom Guy to fit him into the E-10+ rating.

On the other hand, Looma really nailed exactly why Doom Guy would be a perfect fit for Smash. The combat of Doom can be best described as fluid but methodical (at least, based on my experiences with the only Doom game I've played, the 2016 one). The pace is lightning fast and the game play mechanics actively encourage you to go balls in on the enemy as much as possible, but you can't just mindlessly plow through everything, you have to constantly keep track of the environment and your own toolset to succeed. Without context this feels like I would be describing a typical Smash game.

Thing is, toning down Doom Slayer to fit in to Smash wouldn't be as hard as most people think. The cartoony nature of Smash already deals with the gore element. If Sakurai is uncomfortable with giving him realistic guns, just stick to the weird sci-fi stuff instead, like the Emergency Pistol, the Plasma Rifle, the Gauss Canon and the BFG. Also just let him punch people like he does in Berserker mode and turn his Glory Kills into grab and melee options so he's not as dependent on guns for Smash.

 

[Geassguy]

If Sakurai is uncomfortable with giving him realistic guns, just stick to the weird sci-fi stuff instead, like the Emergency Pistol, the Plasma Rifle, the Gauss Canon and the BFG. Also just let him punch people like he does in Berserker mode and turn his Glory Kills into grab and melee options so he's not as dependent on guns for Smash.

Joker is coming, and one of his main tools is a Pistol, combine that with Bayonetta and I think the rules have enough wiggle room for the new grappling Super Shotgun to make it in. To not have that would be to miss out on something that would really make his moveset stand out IMO.

I could definitely see the chaingun and machinegun not make it, there's already enough between the prev mentioned SSG, Shoulder launcher grenades/flames, GK based melee attacks, Armblade attacks, and yeah as you said, weapons like the Ballista, Plasma rifle, Rocket launcher, Chainsaw, BFG, Crucible...
Yeah I really feel Eternal gives him a lot of great moveset potential.

 

[PublicServant]

Doomguy in MK sounds awesome and he would fit right in as long as he was implemented properly. That said, implementing him is a tall task. Doomguy is fast, I feel like that's a trait of his that often gets looked over in favor of the pools of gore he creates. Trying to fit blinding speed into Mort/al Kombat would be a very delicate procedure, because he either breaks the game or doesn't feel like Doomguy anymore if you go too far in either direction. Doom is more than just ripping demon's lungs out, you gotta have maneuverability on top of that. Doomguy needs to run, strafe, shoot, run while shooting, jump (depending on game), AND rip demon's lungs out. It'd be incredibly cool to see it work but I doubt that Sub-Zero can keep up.

Ironically, the game with Mario and Pikachu in it just seems like a better fit for our man'o'gore. MK is slow and stiff which works well for characters like Jason Vorhees and Kratos, while Smash is faster and far more limber to the point that it could accommodate the likes of Sonic the Hedgehog and Ridley. Speaking of, Ridley's cruel personality is encapsulated really well in Smash with no issues. Doomguy could definitely be his normal angry self, being as rough as he likes with the rest of the cast. Obviously Pikachu's lungs are off limits, but that's pretty easy to work around considering how Smash functions as a game.

I feel that speed and brutality is more integral to Doomguy's character than actual visible gore.

My thoughts exactly. The thing that's different about Smash compared to other fighting games is that the bigger stages and "Out of Bounds" style of KO open a lot of maneuvering options for fighters; something which the Doom Slayer excels at and which would shine the brightest in Smash over MK.

In regards to the guns, practically his entire arsenal could be construed as fantastic/futuristic enough to not resemble conventional weaponry, getting a general pass. You could easily have the Assault Rifle and Heavy Cannon get through if they only use the Micro Missiles mod, and the Chaingun looks pretty futuristic on its own (if not, just stick the Mobile Turret mod on it).

I do sincerely hope that his inclusion (if it happens) sees him with a gun-centric moveset - the best way he could be represented (with Glory kills on the side as grabs).

 

[Untouch]

I don't even think Sakurai would need to tone down the Doomslayer at all, most of his weapons are energy based and not realistic, I would say the only weapon that would hurt being cut is the super shotgun personally.
DOOM eternal really expands the amount of guns he has, and most of them are energy based as well.
Bayonetta is more gorey in her games honestly.

Mortal Kombat to me always felt more slow and melee focused which I don't feel fits the Doomslayer at all.

 

[Geassguy]

Mortal Kombat to me always felt more slow and melee focused which I don't feel fits the Doomslayer at all.

Agreed. I love MK, and it's style works great for characters like Predator, Alien, and Jason, but faster characters like Doomguy/slayer tend to suffer in those kinds of games. I mean just look at how putting a Spartan in DOA worked out, she was waaay too slow.

 

[cmbsfm]

Doom Slayer in smash means he can fan fight other gaming icons. Who gives a **** if there’s no blood? I think he belongs in Smash on the merit of it being a gaming crossover.

But I have solution for those who want him in MK. Let’s just bring Scorpion to Smash Bros too! I think he deserves it just as much, and Doomguy can fight a MK character now too.

 

[Captain Hazama]

And a Cacodemon as an AT with Doom/Slayer/Guy/Marine.

 

[Geassguy]

So I decided to finally put some of my ideas down for what I imagine Doomguy/slayer's moveset might be like. Posted it to reddit and thought I'd post it here too if anyone is interested.

Spoiler: My moveset ideas

Doomguy/slayer's default appearance IMO would be a Smashified version of his appearance in Doom Eternal. His alternate costume would be Classic Doomguy, with classic versions of the new features.

Moveset:
In order to emulate the games he hails from, Doomguy/slayer is fast and damaging, emphasizing close range fighting despite his wide variety of guns. To compensate he does not have a ton of weight or defense, and his recovery options are not super amazing and somewhat situational.

Up-B: Rocket Jump
Brings up the rocket launcher and fires it downwards, can be aimed when the B is held down, release B to fire. Press Down+B again to detonate the rocket, crucial to using as a recovery.

Doomguy/slayer has 5 weapons which can be selected from a weapon wheel similar to the Monado arts selection wheel. All weapons run on ammo (except for the chainsaw and pistol).

Down-B: Weapon switch
Down+ hold B to raise wheel, use stick to select weapon, release B to switch.
The wheel is organized thus:
Center: Chainsaw (Weapon 2 if Chainsaw is equipped)
Around the outside (dependant on currently equipped weapon): Weapon 1, Weapon 2, Weapon 3, Weapon 4
Quick-pressing down-B will get you the chainsaw when using any other weapon. Pressing down-B again will get you the Super Shotgun, thus pressing down-B twice while using another gun will get you to the SSG for Meathook capability.
When using a gun weapon other than the Super Shotgun, there are no side-B attacks, facilitating firing and moving simultaneously.

Weapon 0: Chainsaw
Default-B: Rip and Tear
Tap to quick slash, Hold to stab into an enemy. When doing so, ammo pickups will fall from said enemy, the longer it's held down, the more ammo will drop up to a certain point. Vulnerable to attack while harvesting ammo.
Side-B: Heavy Chainsaw Slash
Doomguy/slayer does a big, heavy, overhead diagonal slash with the chainsaw, leaping forward a small distance at the same time.
The only non-ranged weapon. The chainsaw is unique in that when it is equipped, most of the standard (A button) attacks become chainsaw attacks.

Weapon 1: Pistol
Default-B: Energy Shot
Automatically changes to this when you run out of ammo for the other weapons. No ammo use, can be charged. Not much damage but does cause flinching like Falco's pistol.

Weapon 2: Slayer's Super Shotgun (default starting weapon)
Default-B: Super Shotgun Blast
Has a small wait every two presses while DG/S reloads the shotgun.
Side-B: Meathook
Grappling hook that carries Doomguy/slayer to the enemy fighters, unlike Toon/Young Link's Hookshot grab. Also unlike the Hookshot, it only attaches to enemy fighters. At the end of the grapple Doomguy/slayer automatically stabs with the armblade in one quick motion. Recovery potential if enemy fighters are near the ledge.
Basic combo: >B+B
Meathook toward enemy, fire the blast at the end of the grapple attack at point blank range.

Weapon 3: Plasma Rifle
Default-B: Rapid Fire Plasma
Fires quick, non flinching plasma projectiles. Holding it down fires quickly, rapid pressing fires quickest.

Weapon 4: Ballista
Default-B: Ballista Fire
When held down will fire the alternate latching explosive shot.


Grabs would be based on glory kill moves, and a successful grab could perhaps cause a very small amount of health pickups to drop from the enemy, just like a glory kill.

Dodge (tilt+shield) takes the form of his new Quick-Dash/Dodge from Eternal.
Two Charges, then a short cool-down during which his dodge is a standard dodge.
Does not cool down in midair, just like in Doom: Eternal.
Has recovery potential, but the distance moved during the dodge is not much, the Meathook has greater reach than both dashes in a row. Basically good for the last little bit of the distance, like in D:E.

Not 100% sure about all the normal (A button) attacks...

Default A: Offhand Punch
F tilt+A: Backhand Armblade Slash.
Up+A: Uppercut
Down+A: Shoulder Launcher
Fires the grenade from shoulder launcher, flames when charged.
Midair Down+A: Glory Stomp
A stomp drawn from his various midair glory kills.


Final Smash: Crucible Slash into BFG Shot
It would start with a big wide overhead slash from the crucible much like Kirby's Ultra Sword, then Doomguy/slayer pulls out the BFG which fires a shot that flies out, dealing mild proximity damage, zapping anyone who gets close to its flight path. If it hits an enemy or stage part, it explodes and damages an area equivalent to the AoE Final Smashes (ex: Pikachu's). if it doesn't hit anything then it flies off (relatively) harmlessly.

I'm not super versed on movesets or very competitive for that matter, this may be too OP, IDK, so feel free to suggest changes and additions.

Edit: I changed the moveset a bit. Wanted to incorporate run and gun gameplay, so for 3/5 weapons there are no side B attacks, allowing this. Chainsaw also now has its own Side B. This way, in order to make the most of his movement you have to switch to the SSG now and then to use the meathook.

Edit 2: more ideas added (Normal Attacks, dodge).
Anyways as fun as it is to make this (and I do think this would be a good moveset if tuned right), if he even does get added, he may end up totally different. He could just be melee, chainsaw and SSG based stuff with no weapon switching/ammo mechanics, who knows. If he gets in I'll be glad no matter how different or simpler he may end up. I just hope he has the meathook.

 

[jokermelee]

So I decided to finally put some of my ideas down for what I imagine Doomguy/slayer's moveset might be like. Posted it to reddit and thought I'd post it here too if anyone is interested.

Spoiler: My moveset ideas

Doomguy/slayer's default appearance IMO would be a Smashified version of his appearance in Doom Eternal. His alternate costume would be Classic Doomguy, with classic versions of the new features.

Moveset:
In order to emulate the games he hails from, Doomguy/slayer is fast and damaging, emphasizing close range fighting despite his wide variety of guns. To compensate he does not have a ton of weight or defense, and his recovery options are not super amazing and somewhat situational.

Up-B: Rocket Jump
Brings up the rocket launcher and fires it downwards, can be aimed when the B is held down, release B to fire. Press Down+B again to detonate the rocket, crucial to using as a recovery.

Doomguy/slayer has 5 weapons which can be selected from a weapon wheel similar to the Monado arts selection wheel. All weapons run on ammo (except for the chainsaw and pistol).

Down-B: Weapon switch
Down+ hold B to raise wheel, use stick to select weapon, release B to switch.
The wheel is organized thus:
Center: Chainsaw (Weapon 2 if Chainsaw is equipped)
Around the outside (dependant on currently equipped weapon): Weapon 1, Weapon 2, Weapon 3, Weapon 4
Quick-pressing down-B will get you the chainsaw when using any other weapon. Pressing down-B again will get you the Super Shotgun, thus pressing down-B twice while using another gun will get you to the SSG for Meathook capability.
When using a gun weapon other than the Super Shotgun, there are no side-B attacks, facilitating firing and moving simultaneously.

Weapon 0: Chainsaw
Default-B: Rip and Tear
Tap to quick slash, Hold to stab into an enemy. When doing so, ammo pickups will fall from said enemy, the longer it's held down, the more ammo will drop up to a certain point. Vulnerable to attack while harvesting ammo.
Side-B: Heavy Chainsaw Slash
Doomguy/slayer does a big, heavy, overhead diagonal slash with the chainsaw, leaping forward a small distance at the same time.
The only non-ranged weapon. The chainsaw is unique in that when it is equipped, most of the standard (A button) attacks become chainsaw attacks.

Weapon 1: Pistol
Default-B: Energy Shot
Automatically changes to this when you run out of ammo for the other weapons. No ammo use, can be charged. Not much damage but does cause flinching like Falco's pistol.

Weapon 2: Slayer's Super Shotgun (default starting weapon)
Default-B: Super Shotgun Blast
Has a small wait every two presses while DG/S reloads the shotgun.
Side-B: Meathook
Grappling hook that carries Doomguy/slayer to the enemy fighters, unlike Toon/Young Link's Hookshot grab. Also unlike the Hookshot, it only attaches to enemy fighters. At the end of the grapple Doomguy/slayer automatically stabs with the armblade in one quick motion. Recovery potential if enemy fighters are near the ledge.
Basic combo: >B+B
Meathook toward enemy, fire the blast at the end of the grapple attack at point blank range.

Weapon 3: Plasma Rifle
Default-B: Rapid Fire Plasma
Fires quick, non flinching plasma projectiles. Holding it down fires quickly, rapid pressing fires quickest.

Weapon 4: Ballista
Default-B: Ballista Fire
When held down will fire the alternate latching explosive shot.


Grabs would be based on glory kill moves, and a successful grab could perhaps cause a very small amount of health pickups to drop from the enemy, just like a glory kill.

Dodge (tilt+shield) takes the form of his new Quick-Dash/Dodge from Eternal.
Two Charges, then a short cool-down during which his dodge is a standard dodge.
Does not cool down in midair, just like in Doom: Eternal.
Has recovery potential, but the distance moved during the dodge is not much, the Meathook has greater reach than both dashes in a row. Basically good for the last little bit of the distance, like in D:E.

Not 100% sure about all the normal (A button) attacks...

Default A: Offhand Punch
F tilt+A: Backhand Armblade Slash.
Up+A: Uppercut
Down+A: Shoulder Launcher
Fires the grenade from shoulder launcher, flames when charged.
Midair Down+A: Glory Stomp
A stomp drawn from his various midair glory kills.


Final Smash: Crucible Slash into BFG Shot
It would start with a big wide overhead slash from the crucible much like Kirby's Ultra Sword, then Doomguy/slayer pulls out the BFG which fires a shot that flies out, dealing mild proximity damage, zapping anyone who gets close to its flight path. If it hits an enemy or stage part, it explodes and damages an area equivalent to the AoE Final Smashes (ex: Pikachu's). if it doesn't hit anything then it flies off (relatively) harmlessly.

I'm not super versed on movesets or very competitive for that matter, this may be too OP, IDK, so feel free to suggest changes and additions.

Edit: I changed the moveset a bit. Wanted to incorporate run and gun gameplay, so for 3/5 weapons there are no side B attacks, allowing this. Chainsaw also now has its own Side B. This way, in order to make the most of his movement you have to switch to the SSG now and then to use the meathook.

Edit 2: more ideas added (Normal Attacks, dodge).
Anyways as fun as it is to make this (and I do think this would be a good moveset if tuned right), if he even does get added, he may end up totally different. He could just be melee, chainsaw and SSG based stuff with no weapon switching/ammo mechanics, who knows. If he gets in I'll be glad no matter how different or simpler he may end up. I just hope he has the meathook.

I really like your moveset idea! alot of it i was thinking of myself for a Doomslayer (2016)/Doomguy moveset, but this actually features alot of what i had in mind with it. although i would make some changes to balance it out:

1: remove the Chainsaw from the weapon wheel, make that his Smash attacks instead
2: remove the ammo/health drops, Snake doesn't rely on ammo, so i feel Doomguy shouldn't either. plus health pickups might be alittle broken if chained grabs are chained into eachother

other than those 2 i feel yours can be a pretty good Doom Eternal moveset! the rest of my moveset was centered around making DoomSlayer and Doomguy compatible with their movesets, like making his moveset Pistol, Shotgun, Plasma gun, SSG, then Rocket Launcher and BFG Final Smash so it's connected between the 2 games. having something like the Gauss Cannon or Heavy Assault Rifle on the classic Doomguy would look out of place, so that's why i tried to center it around weapons that have appeared in both the original games and 2016. Although some of the weapons from Eternal would be fine being used on Doomslayer/Guy, like his new SSG with Meathook and the updated Plasma gun design.

 

[Geassguy]

1: remove the Chainsaw from the weapon wheel, make that his Smash attacks instead
2: remove the ammo/health drops, Snake doesn't rely on ammo, so i feel Doomguy shouldn't either. plus health pickups might be alittle broken if chained grabs are chained into eachother

As I've said, I'm not that versed in the competitive, technical side, so unless I'm mistaken aren't smash attacks essentially tilt attacks with different properties?
Yes they are technically their own separate set of moves, but they are always very similar to their corresponding tilts from my experience (I haven't actually played every character thoroughly tho) to the point where I don't really see having punches and armblade slashes on tilts and chainsaw stuff on smashes, it would just be chainsaw tilts as well unless I'm mistaken.

I kinda felt having basic, non chainsaw melee attacks (aside from the shoulder launcher) like the punch and armblade on A and weapon attacks on B to be ideal. The ammo system gives a reason for the Pistol to even be there IMO, and more reason for more chainsaw stuff. Having the chainsaw change up the normal attacks was also a fun idea I thought.

BUT I do admit some of these ideas may make him overly complex/a lot of work, he'd probably almost be as complicated as Pokemon Trainer with all my ideas. I could easily see a simpler but similar moveset with most of these ideas, but like you said no ammo/health mechanic and the chainsaw incorporated into normal attacks (and anywhere else they fit).

I DO though really like having multiple weapons with a wheel, a side B on the SSG only (the Meathook), and run and gun on the rest of the guns. Hope that makes it into any potential, real moveset.

Although some of the weapons from Eternal would be fine being used on Doomslayer/Guy, like his new SSG with Meathook and the updated Plasma gun design.

Yeah I'm not super set on the Ballista, it could easily be replaced with something else or maybe even dropped IMO. The new retro inspired Plasma rifle has to be there tho, it fits both new and classic perfectly.

 

[jokermelee]

As I've said, I'm not that versed in the competitive, technical side, so unless I'm mistaken aren't smash attacks essentially tilt attacks with different properties?
Yes they are technically their own separate set of moves, but they are always very similar to their corresponding tilts from my experience (I haven't actually played every character thoroughly tho) to the point where I don't really see having punches and armblade slashes on tilts and chainsaw stuff on smashes, it would just be chainsaw tilts as well unless I'm mistaken..

there's a difference between tilt attacks and Smash attacks, Smash attacks you can charge up for more damage, while tilt attacks are just you pressing A plus a direction. for example, Marios regular A is a regular punch jab, his side tilt is a kick to the side, and his side smash is a blast of fire to the side.

I just thought since you didn't have Smash attacks listed it would be a cool idea to have the Chainsaw as the smash attacks since it's usually for "heavy hitting" enemies (can't have "shredding" enemies in Smash's case)

also yeah i think the weapon wheel idea is a cool concept, i even had that in my moveset idea lol. i think replacing the Ballista with the Rocket Launcher might be a better idea though since it's featured in basically every Doom game, and is most likely returning for Eternal (i don't know if it has been seen yet in gameplay though, hopefully soon)

 

[Geassguy]

there's a difference between tilt attacks and Smash attacks, Smash attacks you can charge up for more damage, while tilt attacks are just you pressing A plus a direction. for example, Marios regular A is a regular punch jab, his side tilt is a kick to the side, and his side smash is a blast of fire to the side.

I just thought since you didn't have Smash attacks listed it would be a cool idea to have the Chainsaw as the smash attacks since it's usually for "heavy hitting" enemies (can't have "shredding" enemies in Smash's case)

I'm used to smash attacks like Link's, which is essentially the same slashing motion as his tilt move but slower and harder hitting. What I'm getting at is aesthetically and content wise from what im used to, tilts and smashes are usually very similar. It's been forever since I played though, untill just recently when Ultimate dropped of course, and even back when I played 4 and Brawl and such I never really played everyone enough to know these things.

i think replacing the Ballista with the Rocket Launcher might be a better idea though since it's featured in basically every Doom game, and is most likely returning for Eternal (i don't know if it has been seen yet in gameplay though, hopefully soon)

That might work pretty well, but in that case the up special would probably be different. The Rocket Jump recovery could be exclusive to when you have the rocket launcher out, and up special would be something else when using other weapons? *shrug* idk.

 

[PublicServant]

So I decided to finally put some of my ideas down for what I imagine Doomguy/slayer's moveset might be like. Posted it to reddit and thought I'd post it here too if anyone is interested.

Spoiler: My moveset ideas

Doomguy/slayer's default appearance IMO would be a Smashified version of his appearance in Doom Eternal. His alternate costume would be Classic Doomguy, with classic versions of the new features.

Moveset:
In order to emulate the games he hails from, Doomguy/slayer is fast and damaging, emphasizing close range fighting despite his wide variety of guns. To compensate he does not have a ton of weight or defense, and his recovery options are not super amazing and somewhat situational.

Up-B: Rocket Jump
Brings up the rocket launcher and fires it downwards, can be aimed when the B is held down, release B to fire. Press Down+B again to detonate the rocket, crucial to using as a recovery.

Doomguy/slayer has 5 weapons which can be selected from a weapon wheel similar to the Monado arts selection wheel. All weapons run on ammo (except for the chainsaw and pistol).

Down-B: Weapon switch
Down+ hold B to raise wheel, use stick to select weapon, release B to switch.
The wheel is organized thus:
Center: Chainsaw (Weapon 2 if Chainsaw is equipped)
Around the outside (dependant on currently equipped weapon): Weapon 1, Weapon 2, Weapon 3, Weapon 4
Quick-pressing down-B will get you the chainsaw when using any other weapon. Pressing down-B again will get you the Super Shotgun, thus pressing down-B twice while using another gun will get you to the SSG for Meathook capability.
When using a gun weapon other than the Super Shotgun, there are no side-B attacks, facilitating firing and moving simultaneously.

Weapon 0: Chainsaw
Default-B: Rip and Tear
Tap to quick slash, Hold to stab into an enemy. When doing so, ammo pickups will fall from said enemy, the longer it's held down, the more ammo will drop up to a certain point. Vulnerable to attack while harvesting ammo.
Side-B: Heavy Chainsaw Slash
Doomguy/slayer does a big, heavy, overhead diagonal slash with the chainsaw, leaping forward a small distance at the same time.
The only non-ranged weapon. The chainsaw is unique in that when it is equipped, most of the standard (A button) attacks become chainsaw attacks.

Weapon 1: Pistol
Default-B: Energy Shot
Automatically changes to this when you run out of ammo for the other weapons. No ammo use, can be charged. Not much damage but does cause flinching like Falco's pistol.

Weapon 2: Slayer's Super Shotgun (default starting weapon)
Default-B: Super Shotgun Blast
Has a small wait every two presses while DG/S reloads the shotgun.
Side-B: Meathook
Grappling hook that carries Doomguy/slayer to the enemy fighters, unlike Toon/Young Link's Hookshot grab. Also unlike the Hookshot, it only attaches to enemy fighters. At the end of the grapple Doomguy/slayer automatically stabs with the armblade in one quick motion. Recovery potential if enemy fighters are near the ledge.
Basic combo: >B+B
Meathook toward enemy, fire the blast at the end of the grapple attack at point blank range.

Weapon 3: Plasma Rifle
Default-B: Rapid Fire Plasma
Fires quick, non flinching plasma projectiles. Holding it down fires quickly, rapid pressing fires quickest.

Weapon 4: Ballista
Default-B: Ballista Fire
When held down will fire the alternate latching explosive shot.


Grabs would be based on glory kill moves, and a successful grab could perhaps cause a very small amount of health pickups to drop from the enemy, just like a glory kill.

Dodge (tilt+shield) takes the form of his new Quick-Dash/Dodge from Eternal.
Two Charges, then a short cool-down during which his dodge is a standard dodge.
Does not cool down in midair, just like in Doom: Eternal.
Has recovery potential, but the distance moved during the dodge is not much, the Meathook has greater reach than both dashes in a row. Basically good for the last little bit of the distance, like in D:E.

Not 100% sure about all the normal (A button) attacks...

Default A: Offhand Punch
F tilt+A: Backhand Armblade Slash.
Up+A: Uppercut
Down+A: Shoulder Launcher
Fires the grenade from shoulder launcher, flames when charged.
Midair Down+A: Glory Stomp
A stomp drawn from his various midair glory kills.


Final Smash: Crucible Slash into BFG Shot
It would start with a big wide overhead slash from the crucible much like Kirby's Ultra Sword, then Doomguy/slayer pulls out the BFG which fires a shot that flies out, dealing mild proximity damage, zapping anyone who gets close to its flight path. If it hits an enemy or stage part, it explodes and damages an area equivalent to the AoE Final Smashes (ex: Pikachu's). if it doesn't hit anything then it flies off (relatively) harmlessly.

I'm not super versed on movesets or very competitive for that matter, this may be too OP, IDK, so feel free to suggest changes and additions.

Edit: I changed the moveset a bit. Wanted to incorporate run and gun gameplay, so for 3/5 weapons there are no side B attacks, allowing this. Chainsaw also now has its own Side B. This way, in order to make the most of his movement you have to switch to the SSG now and then to use the meathook.

Edit 2: more ideas added (Normal Attacks, dodge).
Anyways as fun as it is to make this (and I do think this would be a good moveset if tuned right), if he even does get added, he may end up totally different. He could just be melee, chainsaw and SSG based stuff with no weapon switching/ammo mechanics, who knows. If he gets in I'll be glad no matter how different or simpler he may end up. I just hope he has the meathook.

It's always interesting to see different interpretations of movesets for the Doom Slayer and how they would all work.

The Monado-arts-style weapon wheel is a baller way of incorporating a lot of his weapons. I tried to do the same with my own moveset by having the Doom Slayer be an almost projectile-only character (outside of his throws, which emulates the glory kills) and, like Ryu and Ken, having him fire either the Shotgun or the Plasma Rifle depending on how long the button is pressed for (tap and hold respectively).

I didn't incorporate many Eternal things into the moveset since we practically have no idea how these things are going to work until they release. In regards to the Crucible in particular, I felt that we've got enough Swordfighters as is and that it'd detract somewhat from the Doom philosophy (firearms always, with Melee as an emergency option).

It's funny how all the Doom Slayer movesets I've seen have Rocket Jump as the Up-B. Mine is more or less the same besides the Rocket Detonation being an automated process, since I felt that'd be too harsh on top of ammo management and self-damage.

If you haven't already, I encourage you to have a quick squiz at it. Who knows, might inspire some stuff for your own moveset: https://www.reddit.com/r/SmashBrosU...nto_battle_moveset/?utm_source=reddit-android

 

[Geassguy]

I didn't incorporate many Eternal things into the moveset since we practically have no idea how these things are going to work until they release. In regards to the Crucible in particular, I felt that we've got enough Swordfighters as is and that it'd detract somewhat from the Doom philosophy (firearms always, with Melee as an emergency option).

I feel like the possibilities of the meathook are just too good to pass up, one of the first things I wanted to include.

The rest of the Eternal stuff I used was more basic and all drawn from the released gameplay video, such as the quick dash dodge, the backhand armblade slash and the offhand punch, all of which are used multiple times in that footage.

The Crucible slash can also be inferred from that video seeing as it ends with him winding up to do a big, overhead crucible slash. Definitely wanted to keep it to the FS tho, I agree that he shouldn't have any crucible based regular attacks. The chainsaw already skirts the line of a sword enough.

Smash IS a fighting game, so I do feel some of his moveset should be melee, and glory kills + the armblade gives him a good amount of justification to feature them. His focus on weapons IMO would take the form of multiple different gun options (as opposed to most other gun user's single gun) and the ability to run and gun (with the exception of the SSG, which would be close range anyways).

The Monado-arts-style weapon wheel is a baller way of incorporating a lot of his weapons.

Yeah I kno rite? I got that idea from jokermelee's moveset.

 

[Kzinssie]

Oh hey, this is a thread.

My proposal: Doomslayer's pummel is very powerful, but his throws are relatively weak.

This is because his grab is just impaling the opponent on his chainsaw.

(Any interest in a Doomslayer support discord, btw?)

 

[PublicServant]

Oh hey, this is a thread.

My proposal: Doomslayer's pummel is very powerful, but his throws are relatively weak.

This is because his grab is just impaling the opponent on his chainsaw.

(Any interest in a Doomslayer support discord, btw?)

Probably something more along the lines of a general character support Discord server with a channel for Doom Slayer and other characters could work, since having a server for each character might make things a bit complicated.

 

[Kzinssie]

Probably something more along the lines of a general character support Discord server with a channel for Doom Slayer and other characters could work, since having a server for each character might make things a bit complicated.

Oh, there's already character support discords - I'm only in the one for Geno, but I hear Isaac and Bandana Dee have them too, if no one else

 

[PublicServant]

Oh, there's already character support discords - I'm only in the one for Geno, but I hear Isaac and Bandana Dee have them too, if no one else

There isn't an all-encompassing server with individual channels for each character (I.e. Geno channel, BWD channel, Doom Slayer channel, etc.)?

 

[Kzinssie]

There isn't an all-encompassing server with individual channels for each character (I.e. Geno channel, BWD channel, Doom Slayer channel, etc.)?

Not that I'm aware of, no.

 

[Gazorpazorpfield]

You all may be interested in hearing that Master Chief is out of the running. If there were any concerns about him competing for Doomguy's spot, then it's one less thing to worry about.

I'm all in on this guy, now

 

[Geassguy]

At least until the next game/wave of DLC...
A shame, I was pulling for him as well, but if it makes Doomguy more possible/likely then so be it.

 

[PublicServant]

You all may be interested in hearing that Master Chief is out of the running. If there were any concerns about him competing for Doomguy's spot, then it's one less thing to worry about.

I'm all in on this guy, now

At least until the next game/wave of DLC...
A shame, I was pulling for him as well, but if it makes Doomguy more possible/likely then so be it.

Both a shame and a relief. While I was also a proponent, it's still one more obstacle off the list.

 

[Red Dead Redeemed]

You all may be interested in hearing that Master Chief is out of the running. If there were any concerns about him competing for Doomguy's spot, then it's one less thing to worry about.

I'm all in on this guy, now

Master Chief was always an extreme longshot anyways and had zero Nintendo history. Not gonna say that Master Chief wouldn't get me hype as hell, as I've been a Halo fan for much longer than I've been a Doom fan, but as a FPS representative for Smash I feel that spot should be reserved for someone both Iconic and has a long history with Nintendo, and the best fit for that is unquestionably Doom Guy.

I'm all in for Doom Guy now. Time to make him the Smash FPS representative.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

Doomguy was the only 3rd party classic Nintendo character I wanted to see in Ultimate. I would be SO excited to hear "BFG Division" in Smash.

 

[Geassguy]

Doomguy was the only 3rd party classic Nintendo character I wanted to see in Ultimate. I would be SO excited to hear "BFG Division" in Smash.

Ooooohhhh yeah.

For me, the ideal music list would include:
CLASSIC:
At Doom's Gate
The Imp's Song
I Sawed the Demons
Running from Evil
DOOM
Doom 64:
Main Theme
Doom 3:
Main Theme
MODERN:
BFG Division, of course
Rip and Tear
Hellwalker
Harbinger
Damnation
Mastermind
Victory Theme: At DOOM's Gate
(emphasis on "ideal")
Edit: forgot Hellwalker, had Flesh and Metal and Harbinger mixed up, added Doom 3 Main Theme.

 

[Glowsquid]

Ooooohhhh yeah.

snip

i'd add Quake 2's Descent into Cerberon

 

[Geassguy]

i'd add Quake 2's Descent into Cerberon

oooo, yeah, the main theme for Quake 1 and some tracks from Quake 2 would also be excellent inclusions.