At Smash's Gate - The Doom Marine/Doomguy/Doom Slayer Thread

[Davidius]

That's fair, but I won't be beating around the bush far as that. If they ever become full fledged characters, great, but it's also possible they'll remain Mii's.

I can see where you're coming from. It's better to be happy that he at least got the nod as Mr. FPS than expecting too much in the future. I'll never stop wanting the character and I hope the next iteration is as ambitious even if they don't return all the characters. In particular I hope they don't lean so hard into JRPGs.

 

[HARBlNGER]

I love the reference to the mini Doom Slayer toy when gameplay of the mii costume was being shown off (using a mini mushroom to make him look smaller). Reminds me of the DOOM 2016 ending credits with the toy fighting demons.

 

[doomguywhen1993]

Knew something like this was gonna happen, with the giveaway being that comment from Marty Stratton.
To some people, it's a big deal because Smash is the largest video game crossover and Doom is such an important videogame, so it seems like Doomguy could in a way fit like a glove.
But at the same time, the processs of getting to talks with different companies and working around a character's gameplay, assets etc is a difficult process (Specially with COVID happening).
Plus, "Western game, too violent, Dovahkiin is more likely, etc etc" even if they were never the case.
I feel like the least we can say is: Doom is not gonna be forgotten just because Doomguy wasn't a main fighter a Nintendo party game that used to be focused on first party games until Snake was revealed in Brawl.
And if Smash fan reaction means anything, we've seen people not know what Castlevania or SNK is and everyone has their personal interpretation of gaming history's importance when you look at some requested characters (You're probably familiar with the Twitter discourse over "waifu characters" or Scrimblo Bimblos).
Even then, i think even Sakurai knows deep down that Smash isn't the perfect representation of gaming history and he was nice enough to mention Doom as being a kickstarter of the FPS genre and running on every computer.
He's probably even aware of the support behind him.

I assume Doom's worst luck is because Doomguy got into Smash discussion a little too late, specially since it took 2016 and Eternal to enhance that moveset potential.
One nitpick of mine is how 2016/Eternal focused the whole thing is because a well hidden classic Doomguy face would've been neat.
I still think the Praetor suit will only enforce more comparisons between Doomguy and Master Chief, specially for Japanese players.
Also this goes back to me thinking of mixing up different games because of MetaDoom.
Still weird Dante didn't come with his DMCV costume.
Besides, maybe there's obscure characters that could be hurt from being spirits or costumes but Doom is Doom.

Like Devil May Cry, might as well be one of those franchises that "is too good for Smash, anyway", even if that sounds like desperation.
You still have a large legacy, like the fanbase with a whole load of mods, source ports, programs and other subcultures around Doom.
Even something like Crash or Touhou have massive presences that aren't going to be erased just because they're not in Smash in any way whatsoever.
Maybe if Sony makes another PlayStation themed Smash clone or MicroSoft does one, who knows.
I'm not even sure if Nintendo would want to make another one, considering the scope of the series in general and how Ultimate ended up as.
Sakurai deserves a break until he wants to make another game.

In a way, the contrast between Smash and Doom fans would have been interesting, specially because stuff like Isabelle crossovers almost overshadowed portions of the fanbase, so imagine if Japanese players had a greater role in Doom content besides occasional fanart and a wad like JPCP.
Also, Hugo Martin will have a stream where he finally reveals Eternal's Horde Mode, so lol at the chat comments he's gonna recieve.

Sora is still impressive on his own because, you know, Disney but he also had a greater presense with requests and speculation.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

I can sympathize with the more negative and optimist outlooks I see in this thread. Maybe this is as far as we'll see western representation go, maybe it's a good sign for the next entry. Still, even if the Slayer comes next time, there's a good chance the next Smash will severely cut down on the roster, so maybe the dream crossover some might have no longer will happen depending on how things go. But we'll see, I doubt we're getting another Smash game anytime soon, likely with a timegap similar to that of Melee to Brawl.

 

[Warumian]

You still have a large legacy, like the fanbase with a whole load of mods, source ports, programs and other subcultures around Doom.

You are right, it's incredible how the Doom fanbase lasted so many years and is still going strong, similar to the SM64 fanbase.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I was recalling Gunn in’ for Doom. So much so I was half expecting it.

But Doomguy actually got highlighted on by Sakurai! That’s a little something imo. I know it’s for his Japanese audiences but, still, worth noting. Geno, Dante, Shantae, and others didn’t get this distinction. In fact, all of Bethesda content got talked about.

 

[Moonfire]

I'm nowhere near as disappointed as I thought I'd be - I'm a step above being not disappointed at all. Even though Doomguy is by far my most wanted, with only one slot left it went to the rightful character, Sora. I'm thrilled they were finally able to get him in; absolutely deserved.

The costume looks great, though the choice of 2016's pistol is unfortunate, but understandable - I was hoping for Eternal's classic-throwback Plasma Gun or SSG, but they probably would have looked off wielded one-handed and at the necessary scale.

I'm also in the camp who probably would have preferred classic Doomguy, but I love Eternal's suit almost as much so it's not a huge deal to me. I'm just glad the father of FPS is finally in Smash. I've been playing near-exclusively as Mii Gunner for a few weeks now just in case, so that seemed to pay off. I can't wait to use the costume!

Also, to have had Sakurai talk about DOOM and acknowledge its legacy, even briefly, was really awesome. He even referred to him as "Doomguy"! I still can't wipe the smile off my face.

I assume Doom's worst luck is because Doomguy got into Smash discussion a little too late, specially since it took 2016 and Eternal to enhance that moveset potential.

That's what I feel too. It'll be interesting to see what they do with the next Smash, what happens with DOOM in the meantime, and what his chances are there.

But for now, I'm going to cherish the heck out of Doomguy finally being in.

 

[GalacticPetey]

Doomguy was a character I always really, really wanted in Smash despite not having much experience with his actual games. He's just such a strong pop culture figure that I learned a lot about through osmosis and also TFS' hilarious lets play of 2016. While I'm sad he wasn't a full fighter, I'm very happy he at least got a Mii costume. Doom deserves a place in the biggest gaming crossover of all time and I'm glad he could squeeze his way in at the very end. I think that's at least in some part due to the dedication of his fans. He's become a much bigger name in speculation over the course of Ultimate, and he'll definitely be someone to keep an eye on going forward.

 

[KillerCage]

It was thanks to Smash that I got into the Doom series.
I think I'll buying that Doom Slayer costume to repay my debt to Smash.

 

[Holphino]

As someone whose been speculating and just generally talking about Doomguy and Smash since the 5chan leak a few years back, I personally feel like I got closure. I'm actually okay with the way things turned out, but I probably would've been had there've been no Doom content anyways. I'm a lifelong Smash fan, so seeing picks like K. Rool, Ridley, Steve, and all the vets returning which included Snake who was my previous most wanted make it into this game was absolutely insane. The final character being Sora is fitting and just makes sense, and despite not being a KH fan, I'm happy that it ended with him. The fact that Doom is represented at all is something I'm really happy about(especially since the mii costume itself actually looks good)and it was cathartic to hear Sakurai talk about Doom, and it's influence. He also got to sneak a Doom runs on everything joke in there, ABSOLUTE MADLAD! I also just want to add it was nice to talk about Doom and Smash Bros with you all, and considering the fact that Doomguy's chances for next game are actually looking pretty decent, I'll be seeing some of you again when that game's announced. Thanks guys, it's been fun.

 

[cybersai]

Doom Slayer getting a Mii outfit is the best thing that could have happened with only one character left open. If Microsoft doesn't put a tight leash on Bethesda going forward, I do think he's the best shot for a playable character from them in the future.

 

[AmphabulouSnake]

At first I was mad that he was just a mii costume, but after reflecting a bit on it, that definitely bodes well for the future of Doom Slayer in Smash.
It was a nice run while it lasted Doom bros.

Before I leave this site for a long long while, I wanted to thank all of you for supporting Doom Slayer for Smash and spreading the Doom love.
Thanks to all of you, I tried DOOM and through sheer luck became a huge fan of the whole series despite me having reservations about the FPS genre as a whole and M rated games for the entirety of my childhood until early 2 years ago.
I now have played every DOOM games, love the Doom Slayer and intends to buy a wonderful figma of him ^^
So I hope all of you will continue to support the cause until the dream hopefully finally happens in the future <3

 

[Geassguy]

Also keep in mind, costumes HAVE been promoted to fighters before, Chrom was a costume in SSB 3DS/Wii U.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

K Rool's the only example I tend to remember far as that, but fair enough.

 

[GalacticPetey]

Inkling, Chrom, Isabelle, and K. Rool were all costumes in Smash 4. All very popular characters who just had to wait a bit longer. I can see history repeating.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

People were certain of others like Lloyd Irving becoming a full character and he was sold as a Mii again, so just be prepared for either scenario, is all I’m saying.

 

[GalacticPetey]

People were certain of others like Lloyd Irving becoming a full character and he was sold as a Mii again, so just be prepared for either scenario, is all I’m saying.

Oh but of course. Not everyone can make it. Just like last time it will be a toss up. But some for sure will likely make it, especially with Sakurai straight up acknowledging that the Miis included in kazuya's wave were highly requested fighters.

It's just a question of whether or not Doomguy would go the route of K. Rool and Chrom, or Geno and Lloyd.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Hey..
Might as well say something as well.
I couldn't just come back out of nowhere to congratulate Sora fans and not stop here for a bit.

TBH I never expected Doomguy/slayer to come this far in speculation cycle. Nor that he'd have this much support.
I grew up with Doom even though there were PC games on the market with much better graphics by the time I played them. It meant and means that much to me.

But hey, I'm glad we took this journey together. We at least got one of the best looking Mii costumes out there.

Never say never. Even if this is the last smash game ever made, it doesn't mean they won't port this game to a future console and perhaps, add a fighter pass #3 and #4.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Congrats for the Mii costume, everyone! It may not have been what you were hoping for, but this and Sak's acknowledgement of Doom's contribution to the medium will get Slayer's foot in the door, at least.

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Gotta say, it's all sorts of silly that the Doom logo is a no go if you want to keep the trailers E rated, but adding a Slayer right below it makes it a-ok.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Gotta say, it's all sorts of silly that the Doom logo is a no go if you want to keep the trailers E rated, but adding a Slayer right below it makes it a-ok.

It's like the AVGN scene about "asshole" being censored on TV but in reverse.

"****. Slayer? Doom Slayer. The ESRB makes a lotta sense."

 

[Davidius]

Gotta say, it's all sorts of silly that the Doom logo is a no go if you want to keep the trailers E rated, but adding a Slayer right below it makes it a-ok.

It's disappointing that the European streams just started censoring logos too with Kazuya's presentation, at least we can make do with this.

Spoiler

 

[Geassguy]

We may have gotten a costume and not a full fighter, but IMO there was still a ton of care and respect in that costume debut. They went to the effort of recreating an FPS shot and referencing demons with Bowser and Samus. Slayer even got to push Mario around (with the 2016 reverse/switch cover pose recreated to boot) as is Smash Ultimate tradition.

I dunno but It feels like they really cared and wanted to make him as legit as they could make a costume. The costume itself looks amazing, almost like they got the model from id themselves.

Def aware this is not really based on much, but I feel pretty optimistic about the future.

 

[Warumian]

tbh the new logo is lame so I'm cool with them not showing it. (Look how they massacred my boy)

 

[Davidius]

We may have gotten a costume and not a full fighter, but IMO there was still a ton of care and respect in that costume debut. They went to the effort of recreating an FPS shot and referencing demons with Bowser and Samus. Slayer even got to push Mario around (with the 2016 reverse/switch cover pose recreated to boot) as is Smash Ultimate tradition.

I dunno but It feels like they really cared and wanted to make him as legit as they could make a costume. The costume itself looks amazing, almost like they got the model from id themselves.

Def aware this is not really based on much, but I feel pretty optimistic about the future.

At a glance the model likely is based off assets supplied by id which does help with the authenticity. There's a couple of things that make me think the Doom Slayer costume was a later decision because I find him coming at the very end in such a sparse wave conspicuous. What that would mean for Doomguy as an actual fighter I don't know but I'd like to think they noticed the character's popularity to think it worth following up on at the 11th hour. All speculation of course but I'd love to hear how and when Doom made it in.

 

[Keeshu]

Since he's a Mii Gunner now, what movesets are you guys going to be giving him? Trying to be faithful to the character or stick to the meta? Or are you not going to care whatsoever?

For me I'm trying to keep the moveset close to the character. Giving him Charge Shot + Missile like the trailer. Charge Shot = BFG and Missile = Rockets. Makes too much sense

The Up+B and Down +B is where I am having troubles with.
Up B 1 Lunar Launch - Definitely very reminiscent of Rocket Jumping, especially with how high it goes and hitting stuff below him.

Spoiler

While writing this comment I was shocked to find out that the newer games do not have rocket jumping. I didn't play Doom as much as I wanted but I assumed it was a thing in the doom games since I played Doom's brother series, the Quake series. Also the only Doom game I have played all the way through is the VR game funnily enough. I only played a little bit of the original old school Doom at a friend's house.

Up B 2 Cannon Jump Kick - It's like the more aggressive part of Doom Guy/Doom Slayer. Also has more aggressive uses onstage in sacrifice for a good recovery.
Up B 3 Arm Rocket - I know Doom Guy/Doom Slayer is fast, but this seems a bit too passive for him since it doesn't deal damage, and he has plenty of other ways to close the distance.
Probably gonna swap between Lunar Launch and Cannon Jump Kick.

Down B 1 Echo Reflector - He does get a forcefield in at least one of the games, but this is more so he can get up close and personal with the opponent.
Down B 2 Bomb Launcher - Similar to the grenades he uses? Also can allow more aggressive gameplay by comboing off of it.
Down B 3 Absorb - More of the newer versions of Doom where he gets health/ammo back from enemies, also it's another movement option and Doom Guy/ Doom Slayer is quite mobile.
Probably gonna be using Bomb Launcher because I can't think of a character that has something similar off the top of my head, and the other two seem like a stretch to fit Doom Guy/Doom Slayer's style.

Of course, I don't know a whole lot about this. Planning on playing all the Doom Games at some point, at least the 2016 one since I have it, and I am learning Mii Gunner while waiting for Sora. So I'm curious what other people would want their Doom Slayer Mii moveset to be.

 

[Room100]

Since he's a Mii Gunner now, what movesets are you guys going to be giving him? Trying to be faithful to the character or stick to the meta? Or are you not going to care whatsoever?

For me I'm trying to keep the moveset close to the character. Giving him Charge Shot + Missile like the trailer. Charge Shot = BFG and Missile = Rockets. Makes too much sense

The Up+B and Down +B is where I am having troubles with.
Up B 1 Lunar Launch - Definitely very reminiscent of Rocket Jumping, especially with how high it goes and hitting stuff below him.

Spoiler

While writing this comment I was shocked to find out that the newer games do not have rocket jumping. I didn't play Doom as much as I wanted but I assumed it was a thing in the doom games since I played Doom's brother series, the Quake series. Also the only Doom game I have played all the way through is the VR game funnily enough. I only played a little bit of the original old school Doom at a friend's house.

Up B 2 Cannon Jump Kick - It's like the more aggressive part of Doom Guy/Doom Slayer. Also has more aggressive uses onstage in sacrifice for a good recovery.
Up B 3 Arm Rocket - I know Doom Guy/Doom Slayer is fast, but this seems a bit too passive for him since it doesn't deal damage, and he has plenty of other ways to close the distance.
Probably gonna swap between Lunar Launch and Cannon Jump Kick.

Down B 1 Echo Reflector - He does get a forcefield in at least one of the games, but this is more so he can get up close and personal with the opponent.
Down B 2 Bomb Launcher - Similar to the grenades he uses? Also can allow more aggressive gameplay by comboing off of it.
Down B 3 Absorb - More of the newer versions of Doom where he gets health/ammo back from enemies, also it's another movement option and Doom Guy/ Doom Slayer is quite mobile.
Probably gonna be using Bomb Launcher because I can't think of a character that has something similar off the top of my head, and the other two seem like a stretch to fit Doom Guy/Doom Slayer's style.

Of course, I don't know a whole lot about this. Planning on playing all the Doom Games at some point, at least the 2016 one since I have it, and I am learning Mii Gunner while waiting for Sora. So I'm curious what other people would want their Doom Slayer Mii moveset to be.

This is a lovely conversation!

So for me any B works perfectly fine. Charge Blast is good for BFG, Laser Blaze visually matches the 2016 pistol best (which was a lame gun to give him but w/e), and Grenade Launch is reminiscent of his grenades (obv) but more specifically his Equipment Launcher in Eternal. Personally I think I'm going with Grenade but part of my choices involve how the CPU plays with each Special too and I saw them do some sick combos catching foes trapped in the explosion.

Side B has Missiles (like Rocket Launcher), Flame Pillar and Stealth Burst. Missiles is the obvious choice but Flame does kinda work with his Flamethrower in Eternal (and feels similar as supporting damage during kills), and Stealth is kiiiiinda like BFG flying before exploding? Stealth is weakest thematically and I'll probably go Missiles.

Up B has to be Lunar Launch. That's honestly the only one I ever use but it also feels best as a rocket jump (or Gauss Cannon jump in the new ones I guess).

Like you said Down B is a little tricky. I think if you're not using Grenade as B then Bomb Drop is another good reference to the grenades without doubling up. However, the fact that bomb is easily sent back at you sucks, and the CPU seems to get very distracted by using that move. Neither Reflector or Absorb REALLY make sense, I guess you could say there's plenty of times Doomguy is near invisible / turning damage into health is a core part of new Doom's gameplay loop respectively. I find Reflector much more applicable so that's what I have on but none of Up/Down B are as fitting as Neutral/Side B.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Question, what was the song that was played when the Mii Costume showed up?

Is it from Doom? And if it is, do we get it as a bonus track?

 

[ThunderSageNun]

Question, what was the song that was played when the Mii Costume showed up?

Is it from Doom? And if it is, do we get it as a bonus track?

Pretty sure it's not a bonus track as it wasn't specified as such in the reveal, unlike with Sans or Cuphead.

 

[Giga Kaiju]

A little late due to life and work but I am glad to see the run of Ultimate end with a bang in the form of Sora. I was dreading a Pokemon or Fire Emblem but we did not get any of the two, instead a character that was supposed to be improbable due to licensing and the company that owns him but Sakurai and co managed to make a deal with it.

And on the other hand, our hellish boy made it into a Smash game, technically. The Mii Costume looked fantastic and fitting due to the action figures you can obtain in the games. Hopefully in the future this means that he has a chance after getting some attention in such a way in the Smash presentation. As of now, I'll consider this a victory. We got him, somehow, and it shows that Bethesda/Microsoft are willing to play ball.

.

 

[Warumian]

A little late due to life and work but I am glad to see the run of Ultimate end with a bang in the form of Sora. I was dreading a Pokemon or Fire Emblem but we did not get any of the two, instead a character that was supposed to be improbable due to licensing and the company that owns him but Sakurai and co managed to make a deal with it.

And on the other hand, our hellish boy made it into a Smash game, technically. The Mii Costume looked fantastic and fitting due to the action figures you can obtain in the games. Hopefully in the future this means that he has a chance after getting some attention in such a way in the Smash presentation. As of now, I'll consider this a victory. We got him, somehow, and it shows that Bethesda/Microsoft are willing to play ball.

.

Yeah, at the end of the day, we won, and the Mii boosts doomguy's probabilities to get into smash 6 because Sakurai and Nintendo aknowledge there is a demand for the character, of course there is nothing 100% confirmed, I mean Geno and Lloyd were too in smash 4, but now there's no balloot to compete with and Doom support came early at the beginning of the game so I can dream.

 

[Wonder Smash]

You know, it's something that before the reveal, I kept on insisting that Doom Slayer could still be a Mii costume even after that fake leak. So glad that that actually happened.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I'm still in bliss that Doomguy made it in before Master Chief. Even if at least as a Mii.

Not sure if it was Sakurai's decision, Bethesda stepping in first, or Microsoft.
But I'm glad someone has their priorities straight. :D (sorry MC fans)

 

[Room100]

I'm still in bliss that Doomguy made it in before Master Chief. Even if at least as a Mii.

Not sure if it was Sakurai's decision, Bethesda stepping in first, or Microsoft.
But I'm glad someone has their priorities straight. :D (sorry MC fans)

The lack of Chief really surprises me tbh. Like I agree Doom should be THE shooter to get this kind of highlight, but Microsoft helped get two full fighters into the game. You'd think a Chief Mii Gunner would've happened, but maybe Microsoft is more willing to put subsidiary characters in before their own?

 

[Warumian]

The lack of Chief really surprises me tbh. Like I agree Doom should be THE shooter to get this kind of highlight, but Microsoft helped get two full fighters into the game. You'd think a Chief Mii Gunner would've happened, but maybe Microsoft is more willing to put subsidiary characters in before their own?

I mean, MS got paid for those two characters, that should be it right?

 

[Wonder Smash]

Neither Master Chief or the Halo games have ever been on Nintendo consoles, so I'm not surprised at that.

 

[Room100]

Neither Master Chief or the Halo games have ever been on Nintendo consoles, so I'm not surprised at that.

I was gonna bring up Vault Boy but even he has the mobile game so you got me.

 

[PublicServant]

Neither Master Chief or the Halo games have ever been on Nintendo consoles, so I'm not surprised at that.

I mean, there was this: Halo DS - Halopedia, the Halo wiki

 

[Wonder Smash]

I mean, there was this: Halo DS - Halopedia, the Halo wiki

That was never even released, though.

 

[Warumian]

Neither Master Chief or the Halo games have ever been on Nintendo consoles, so I'm not surprised at that.

The closest thing he had going for were two skins in fortnite and minecraft, a canceled game and I think that's it.