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Ask VMan about Yoshi Thread (A General Yoshi Discussion)
- Thread starter Taj278
- Start date
Last Saturday (3/29) I went to a tournament and got 9th out of roughly 40-50 something entrants. I've never played so many Falcos in tournament before. I ultimately lost to a close set with Stab in Winner's and Nhat, who used Falco the whole tournament, in Loser's. The latter set was recorded and will probably be up soon.
Yesterday I went to another tournament and got 3rd out of 36 entrants. The only ranked player there was PewPewU. I lost pretty handily to Laudandus, a Sheik player, in Winner's, but I went through Loser's and got a rematch with him in LF. The second set went to Game 5, and I was much more satisfied with my performance in it than in the Winner's set. In the first set I was too concerned about getting chain grabbed, and that led to me playing too cautious. However, in the second set, I realized this mistake so I got rid of any of those thoughts in my head and just played the set. Self-confidence goes a long way!
In any case, my matchups vs. Falco are certainly getting better. I feel FD is a good stage because his best and most common approach options are laser and SH aerial. Once you get in their heads that they can't easily approach you without getting punished thanks to parrying, the match starts leaning in your favor.
Yesterday I went to another tournament and got 3rd out of 36 entrants. The only ranked player there was PewPewU. I lost pretty handily to Laudandus, a Sheik player, in Winner's, but I went through Loser's and got a rematch with him in LF. The second set went to Game 5, and I was much more satisfied with my performance in it than in the Winner's set. In the first set I was too concerned about getting chain grabbed, and that led to me playing too cautious. However, in the second set, I realized this mistake so I got rid of any of those thoughts in my head and just played the set. Self-confidence goes a long way!
In any case, my matchups vs. Falco are certainly getting better. I feel FD is a good stage because his best and most common approach options are laser and SH aerial. Once you get in their heads that they can't easily approach you without getting punished thanks to parrying, the match starts leaning in your favor.
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Dinowulf
Smash Journeyman
I'm glad you posted this. i was just about to ask about falco cause he is my hardest match up to date right now. No matter what i seem to do i can't think how to beat his Dair and his UpSheid combo. I've been having a serious issue with powersheidling and parrying and i'm having a very hard time getting the two down frame perfect as much as Amsa or yourself can do. Kimimaru do you think a topic dedicated to fighting falco's would be recommended? (i'm not going to make it for the sake of posting against forum rules...to be safe)
I'm not nearly as good at parrying as aMSa is, but on good days I can do it well enough to counter most of Falco's approaches. Do you have any footage of you vs. a Falco? How are you positioning yourself onstage in the matchup and which stages are you bringing Falco to? There are a lot of MU-specific threads on SmashBoards, so it shouldn't be a problem to make one specific to Falco.
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
Anyone know what to do against spacing out? Lately, I've been losing focus like midway tournament, where I just zone out and see my char doing stupid ****/not mixing things up/don't care if I get hit.
Some recommended reading or advice on battling this would be appreciated.
Also here's my last recorded set vs Remen's falco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXH7FalNils
Kinda freeze up last stock and went for way more grabs than I should but did pretty ok I guess.
Some recommended reading or advice on battling this would be appreciated.
Also here's my last recorded set vs Remen's falco: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXH7FalNils
Kinda freeze up last stock and went for way more grabs than I should but did pretty ok I guess.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Parrying only shuts down super simple-minded Falcos, so if they have absolutely no idea how to do anything other than randomly mixing up unspaced nair and unspaced laser, then FD will become nice, although if you play a Falco who is actually good (you can usually identify these by their ability to play other characters), they'll quickly find ways to mess up parrying. Most notable workarounds include spaced nair(so that you can reach any of your easy parry punishes) and high/super low lasers(cannot be relected from the parry but still shuts down movement).
Taking Falco to FD has some benefit because he can't mix up his timings of falling onto you with aerials using platforms, but it also takes away your best defensive option against him, a good amount of your movement, and half of your recovery mix ups.
You definitely never will want to strike there (unless you're playing someone worse than you and you feel like comboing), and I don't know what you'd rather ban. . . maybe PS? I still plan on banning FD.
Mind Trick, mindset is a huge deal, I've definitely found myself doing that but I've been getting better at it. I'd say the biggest thing that started helping me in those situations is just once I'm aware of it, taking a deep breath, and telling myself what I need to work on at that particular moment. (ex: I'm down a stock, I need to get an opening and then it is pretty much even, I also need to start grabbing more because he is shielding too much.)
Also, your horizontal movement game to make Falco's vertical control less confining was awesome. You definitely seemed confident in your spacing. Although when you made a mistake, you would let it convert into a loss of momentum too easily. (Your 2nd stock game 2, you just seemed super scared and got hit a bunch) Game three you started out so strong, I was really sad to see you lose it. . . You got a ton of parries but didn't get hardly any follow ups after them. . .
Taking Falco to FD has some benefit because he can't mix up his timings of falling onto you with aerials using platforms, but it also takes away your best defensive option against him, a good amount of your movement, and half of your recovery mix ups.
You definitely never will want to strike there (unless you're playing someone worse than you and you feel like comboing), and I don't know what you'd rather ban. . . maybe PS? I still plan on banning FD.
Mind Trick, mindset is a huge deal, I've definitely found myself doing that but I've been getting better at it. I'd say the biggest thing that started helping me in those situations is just once I'm aware of it, taking a deep breath, and telling myself what I need to work on at that particular moment. (ex: I'm down a stock, I need to get an opening and then it is pretty much even, I also need to start grabbing more because he is shielding too much.)
Also, your horizontal movement game to make Falco's vertical control less confining was awesome. You definitely seemed confident in your spacing. Although when you made a mistake, you would let it convert into a loss of momentum too easily. (Your 2nd stock game 2, you just seemed super scared and got hit a bunch) Game three you started out so strong, I was really sad to see you lose it. . . You got a ton of parries but didn't get hardly any follow ups after them. . .
I'd rather play that matchup on FD than YS. Falco has a much easier time killing you there than on FD, and since I'm not too consistent with techs I get punished pretty hard when missing one on a platform. Overall my favorite stages for that matchup are DL and BF because they give me enough space to work with. They're also two of my favorite stages in general. If I find that I can do better by parrying the Falco's aerials, I'll counterpick FD.
I've played Falcos before that make it hard to parry (Stab and Nhat from the tournament 2 Saturdays ago). In those cases I stopped focusing on parrying and instead limited their movements with eggs.
Mind Trick, I just watched your match. A few notes:
Positives:
-Parrying that shine at 3:09 was insane! Good parries in general
-Great movement in the MU
-Overall good edgeguarding
Negatives:
-Too many grab attempts
-You committed to an option too quickly at times, notably before grabs and during tech chase attempts, allowing him to spotdodge/escape more often than not
-Not enough baits/mixups
Overall you have a good grasp in the matchup. Try not to make yourself vulnerable by staying in Falco's D-air range under him when he's above you. I noticed that Remen would often do a fullhop -> D-air when he knew you were jumping from underneath a platform. That's what some of the other Falcos did to me and I've become more aware of this. As Purpletuce said, it's sad that you lost after doing so well at the start of Game 3.
Since you brought up the mindset topic I'm assuming that's what happened at the end there. I get nervous in competitive events so I'm usually focused, but if I have a good lead I often get overconfident/zone out a little and I have to snap myself out of it. Last tournament, I was up 2 stocks against a Falco who had 1 stock left, and he almost made a comeback. The game count was 1-0 in my favor at that point, but it's always better wrap it up as quickly as possible. Thankfully, I snapped out of it in time and ended the set with a parry -> N-air on my last stock at high percent.
I've played Falcos before that make it hard to parry (Stab and Nhat from the tournament 2 Saturdays ago). In those cases I stopped focusing on parrying and instead limited their movements with eggs.
Mind Trick, I just watched your match. A few notes:
Positives:
-Parrying that shine at 3:09 was insane! Good parries in general
-Great movement in the MU
-Overall good edgeguarding
Negatives:
-Too many grab attempts
-You committed to an option too quickly at times, notably before grabs and during tech chase attempts, allowing him to spotdodge/escape more often than not
-Not enough baits/mixups
Overall you have a good grasp in the matchup. Try not to make yourself vulnerable by staying in Falco's D-air range under him when he's above you. I noticed that Remen would often do a fullhop -> D-air when he knew you were jumping from underneath a platform. That's what some of the other Falcos did to me and I've become more aware of this. As Purpletuce said, it's sad that you lost after doing so well at the start of Game 3.
Since you brought up the mindset topic I'm assuming that's what happened at the end there. I get nervous in competitive events so I'm usually focused, but if I have a good lead I often get overconfident/zone out a little and I have to snap myself out of it. Last tournament, I was up 2 stocks against a Falco who had 1 stock left, and he almost made a comeback. The game count was 1-0 in my favor at that point, but it's always better wrap it up as quickly as possible. Thankfully, I snapped out of it in time and ended the set with a parry -> N-air on my last stock at high percent.
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MiggsYoshi
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2014
- Messages
- 2
This thread helps a lot when it comes to Yoshi a lot of useful information good job guys seriously.
Mind Trick
Smash Ace
Thanks for watching and commenting on it guys, I was feeling a bit demotivated after a disappointing performance this weekend, but watching this and reading your advice I can still see so much that can be worked on. Sadly I will be a bit busy for the coming period, so not a lot of time to invest in smash.
@
Kimimaru
last stock was actually just nerves (first time playing on stream and almost taking a big name 
). In hindsight, I can see myself smiling a lot in this set, which was definitely helping I think. Last tournament I don't think I was doing that as much, and as soon as I got combo'd by falco or grabbed a spotdodge shine or just ****ed up I kinda lost focus and just let it happen and space out. I guess it was mostly my state of mind that should be more positive like amsa lol
@
Kimimaru
last stock was actually just nerves (first time playing on stream and almost taking a big name ). In hindsight, I can see myself smiling a lot in this set, which was definitely helping I think. Last tournament I don't think I was doing that as much, and as soon as I got combo'd by falco or grabbed a spotdodge shine or just ****ed up I kinda lost focus and just let it happen and space out. I guess it was mostly my state of mind that should be more positive like amsa lolMiggsYoshi
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2014
- Messages
- 2
I know how that feels to be unmotivated when things don't go right with yoshi. But after awhile I accept the fact and his limitations for what he can do. One day it will become successful. 
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Stage control with eggs? Are you talking about from neutral? Falco can just go right through them and take control of a lot of stage like that. . . Can you maybe explain a little more what you mean by that?
I've never really had a problem with missing techs against Falco on the platforms, and I usually find I can use the platforms to stop his combos pretty well. I'll try to work on that stage some, we'll see how it goes.
I've never really had a problem with missing techs against Falco on the platforms, and I usually find I can use the platforms to stop his combos pretty well. I'll try to work on that stage some, we'll see how it goes.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I went to a tournament yesterday and got 7th out of 48. 7th is my lucky place I guess. . . I was doing really well in the nuetral game vs Fox, I was implementing lots of Ftilt and Dtilt to beat his approaches, and it was nice. I finally took a set off of the Falco I uploaded my match against earlier. . . Although it was pretty jank and I feel like I still suck at the MU. Still awaiting that critique, vman
BigglesWorth
Smash Apprentice
Just a few quick questions for anyone: How long did take you to get to a tournament competitive state (not getting JV'd at bigger tournaments and being able to make top half) with Yoshi? What bad habits specifically did you have to overcome that really improved your game? How do you personally practice hardshielding and parrying? Also, how many different fair spacings does everyone use and for what contexts (single retreating fair, djc high fair, djc fair low and forward, reverse dj fair that slopes in a nice line, etc.)? Oh and hey other Yoshi mains. Hi. How is it going? XD
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
Hello!
The rule of thumb I hear people say often is that it takes about a year to learn competitive melee and about a year and a half to start placing well. It's different for everyone so take that with a grain of salt.
The number one bad habit I have is going on auto-pilot. Always think about what you're doing, even if it slows you down in the match. The speed will happen on its own as you get more comfortable with tech skill and the pace of the game. The more you think about things, the more you'll notice what's working and what isn't. Recording yourself helps a lot with this because you get to see habits you might not notice while you're playing. For example, teching habits are often easy for other players to notice but aren't obvious to the player who is doing them.
In terms of Fair, the ones you suggested are good, but don't forget to space the Fair so that it's safe on-shield. Having more options is never a bad thing, as long as you're not trying to use them all just for the sake of being technical.
For parrying, I did three things:
1) Trigger trick my controller (hold your parrying button down when you plug in your controller, it basically turns off light shielding) so that I always get a full shield on frame 1. This is not necessary but some people say it helps.
2) Get comfortable with your parry follow-ups. This includes learning all of them and having a "default" one that you can do without worrying about execution (DJC Nair is the one that covers the most options, so this is probably the best choice to start). Know the timing and always try to follow-up after the parry, since you won't have time in a real match to make sure that your parry was successful.
Another useful way to get comfortable with parrying is to incorporate it into all of your jumps. There are downsides to this, but doing it during tech skill practice and friendlies helps make parrying feel as normal as more basic tech like L-cancelling/wavedashing.
3) Practise it with real people. In my opinion this is the only way you can get consistent at doing it in real matches. Have a friend SHFFL aerials at you, and be sure to try it in real matches. You'll get used to knowing what situations are good times to parry, as well as being able to do it under pressure. If anyone tells you parrying is too difficult to do consistently, don't get discouraged.
The number one bad habit I have is going on auto-pilot. Always think about what you're doing, even if it slows you down in the match. The speed will happen on its own as you get more comfortable with tech skill and the pace of the game. The more you think about things, the more you'll notice what's working and what isn't. Recording yourself helps a lot with this because you get to see habits you might not notice while you're playing. For example, teching habits are often easy for other players to notice but aren't obvious to the player who is doing them.
In terms of Fair, the ones you suggested are good, but don't forget to space the Fair so that it's safe on-shield. Having more options is never a bad thing, as long as you're not trying to use them all just for the sake of being technical.
For parrying, I did three things:
1) Trigger trick my controller (hold your parrying button down when you plug in your controller, it basically turns off light shielding) so that I always get a full shield on frame 1. This is not necessary but some people say it helps.
2) Get comfortable with your parry follow-ups. This includes learning all of them and having a "default" one that you can do without worrying about execution (DJC Nair is the one that covers the most options, so this is probably the best choice to start). Know the timing and always try to follow-up after the parry, since you won't have time in a real match to make sure that your parry was successful.
Another useful way to get comfortable with parrying is to incorporate it into all of your jumps. There are downsides to this, but doing it during tech skill practice and friendlies helps make parrying feel as normal as more basic tech like L-cancelling/wavedashing.
3) Practise it with real people. In my opinion this is the only way you can get consistent at doing it in real matches. Have a friend SHFFL aerials at you, and be sure to try it in real matches. You'll get used to knowing what situations are good times to parry, as well as being able to do it under pressure. If anyone tells you parrying is too difficult to do consistently, don't get discouraged.
I'm starting to think that Egg Lay is generally better to use against floaties like Samus than a grab, unless you want to get them offstage. Egg Lay has less lag and allows you to tack on more damage, unlike a throw which usually doesn't get you much against floaties and is easier to punish if missed. Thoughts?
Yeah, Egg Lay + Egg Toss is great for getting floaties in the air and juggling them. On mid-weight floaties like Marth and Sheik you can get more mileage out of D-throw since it leads into U-air at kill percents, but I think from now on I'm going to be primarily using Egg Lay against shield on "super floaties" like Peach, Samus, and Jigglypuff.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I don't really feel like it is good against puff, since she is so strong in the air with all of her air mobility and priority. . . I mainly use it to get in against characters that are susceptable to juggling such as Peach or Luigi. . .
What do you usually get on Puff after egg lay (or just in general after you put her in the air?) Also, what are some things you use to beat her SH bair? Common kill setups? (I feel like my puff MU is pretty lackluster. . .)
What do you usually get on Puff after egg lay (or just in general after you put her in the air?) Also, what are some things you use to beat her SH bair? Common kill setups? (I feel like my puff MU is pretty lackluster. . .)
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
I'm very campy in the Puff MU because Eggs do 12% fresh and rest setups are scary (mainly because I haven't learned the DI for them haha). My main priority is to get her far enough away that Egg Toss is safe, so I mainly use Egg Lay to do that. It's hit or miss, because Puff can beat the eggs with aerials, but I find that if I get one hit, it's safe to throw more because of how much Puff gets hit upwards by them. If I miss, I move to centre stage and let Puff start doing her thing again so I can get another Egg Lay/something else if I want the KO.
SH Bair doesn't bother me much though. If I know it's coming I'll parry it, but if the Puff is mixing up the timing I just dashdance a lot and either catch them with Egg Lay or DJC Nair / a well-timed Bair. Crouch Cancelling also helps sometimes but I don't always get a lot from it.
Killing Puff is kind of weird because she's got so much mobility, but Fsmash will beat a "properly spaced" Bair. Dsmash also beats late Bairs if the Puff tries that. I tend to do a lot of damage with the eggs so I get KOs off of moves like Nair and Uair pretty often too. If Puff is ever above me I just dashdance > JC Usmash and it should beat any attempt at landing.
because Eggs do 12% fresh and rest setups are scary (mainly because I haven't learned the DI for them haha). My main priority is to get her far enough away that Egg Toss is safe, so I mainly use Egg Lay to do that. It's hit or miss, because Puff can beat the eggs with aerials, but I find that if I get one hit, it's safe to throw more because of how much Puff gets hit upwards by them. If I miss, I move to centre stage and let Puff start doing her thing again so I can get another Egg Lay/something else if I want the KO.SH Bair doesn't bother me much though. If I know it's coming I'll parry it, but if the Puff is mixing up the timing I just dashdance a lot and either catch them with Egg Lay or DJC Nair / a well-timed Bair. Crouch Cancelling also helps sometimes but I don't always get a lot from it.
Killing Puff is kind of weird because she's got so much mobility, but Fsmash will beat a "properly spaced" Bair. Dsmash also beats late Bairs if the Puff tries that. I tend to do a lot of damage with the eggs so I get KOs off of moves like Nair and Uair pretty often too. If Puff is ever above me I just dashdance > JC Usmash and it should beat any attempt at landing.
You can try and hit Puff right after she gets out of the egg by lobbing one above it. It's also a bit of extra damage. Just watch out for a potential Rest out of the egg if you're too close.
Egg Toss is amazing in this matchup because it racks up so much damage so quickly. Puff also has a hard time dealing with them if you're far from her. B-air is good a low percents and can lead into a couple of U-airs. The only rest setup that I know of on Yoshi, aside from potential low % U-airs, is U-tilt -> Rest. To avoid this it's best to keep your distance and zone Puff out. Throwing eggs enables you to do so and gives her something to worry about aside from yourself. As with all matchups, don't leave yourself in the air long without your jump. If she hits you offstage, she's more than capable of going out and hitting you again, so generally opt for recovering high but mix up your recovery options occasionally.
Egg Toss is amazing in this matchup because it racks up so much damage so quickly. Puff also has a hard time dealing with them if you're far from her. B-air is good a low percents and can lead into a couple of U-airs. The only rest setup that I know of on Yoshi, aside from potential low % U-airs, is U-tilt -> Rest. To avoid this it's best to keep your distance and zone Puff out. Throwing eggs enables you to do so and gives her something to worry about aside from yourself. As with all matchups, don't leave yourself in the air long without your jump. If she hits you offstage, she's more than capable of going out and hitting you again, so generally opt for recovering high but mix up your recovery options occasionally.
aMSa
Smash Rookie
Hi guys^^
What do you think about this?
Jab reset ->Fair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4uc6_bxyDQ&feature=youtu.be
This video is unlisted.
For Yoshi players
It seems very useful for me.
What do you think about this?
Jab reset ->Fair
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4uc6_bxyDQ&feature=youtu.be
This video is unlisted.
For Yoshi players
It seems very useful for me.
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Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I haven't had much success with parrying against puff, and I feel like dashdancing just causes me to forfeit a ton of stage to puff. . .
I've tried jab reset Fair before, but I for some reason never really took to it, I've definitely failed at getting it in fast enough some times. . . I usually go for DJC Uair, Dsmash, or Ftilt. . . relatedly, I've been missing lots of jab -> djc uair. . . is it not a thing?
I've tried jab reset Fair before, but I for some reason never really took to it, I've definitely failed at getting it in fast enough some times. . . I usually go for DJC Uair, Dsmash, or Ftilt. . . relatedly, I've been missing lots of jab -> djc uair. . . is it not a thing?
I use Jab Reset -> DJC U-air a lot. I think F-air is a good substitute if they're at a lower percent so they can't CC it. aMSa, what is the frame window for it on Fox? It looked like you were able to F-air a few frames late and it would've still hit before he was able to act.
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
Jab reset > Uair is definitely a thing, but against certain characters the timing is tough because they're low to the ground. If I'm not playing at my best I miss this sometimes. For this reason I like to do Jab reset > Down-Throw > Uair against spacies, and if they DI the throw I just techchase until they miss their DI.
aMSa, that Jab reset > Fair is cool. I will try it!
_
I had two ideas recently:
The first is Nair > run forward > DJL > Jab reset. I have yet to apply it in actual games yet, but I can do it consistently after only a day and I think it has potential since Nair doesn't normally lead to jab resets. It seems to cover more ground than Wavedash > Jab as well as just being faster (15 frames for the wavedash and only 7 for the DJL).
The second is related to Fair: I noticed that at certain %s my opponents have a lot of time to react to the Fair and tech. I'm wondering if throwing in an Ftilt or some other move as a mixup right before they land will mess up their timing on the tech.
aMSa, that Jab reset > Fair is cool. I will try it!
_
I had two ideas recently:
The first is Nair > run forward > DJL > Jab reset. I have yet to apply it in actual games yet, but I can do it consistently after only a day and I think it has potential since Nair doesn't normally lead to jab resets. It seems to cover more ground than Wavedash > Jab as well as just being faster (15 frames for the wavedash and only 7 for the DJL).
The second is related to Fair: I noticed that at certain %s my opponents have a lot of time to react to the Fair and tech. I'm wondering if throwing in an Ftilt or some other move as a mixup right before they land will mess up their timing on the tech.
aMSa
Smash Rookie
Yes. When you did jab reset -> SJFair,fox couldn't act.
It's OK you late about 4 flames.
And Today,I try to do it with my friend.
As a result,I think it is NOT difficult and is very useful, although I need to have a conscious about this.
Please look at this
28:20~28:30
http://www.twitch.tv/amsayoshi/b/520600461
aMSa
Smash Rookie
And I found new metagame about Yoshi vs Peach matchup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9qx_QXOM7s&feature=youtu.be
This is why it is really difficult for Peach to grab Yoshi's SJ Bair , wavedash etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9qx_QXOM7s&feature=youtu.be
This is why it is really difficult for Peach to grab Yoshi's SJ Bair , wavedash etc.
aMSa's so smart I can't even. He's advancing Yoshi's meta before our eyes and I'm just over here... practicing waveland on stage>egg lay on my friends. Wave land egg lay is so silly but it works too well sometimes. Gotta get dat stage control, it also covers like half of Yoshi's, maybe more.
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MrHazuki
Smash Ace
An easier option out-of-run is to crouch-jab. You can't really mess it up like a DJL. I do it a lot more with Sheik/Fox/Ganon but it works fine with Yoshi as well.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
or you could run -> WD jab.
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
That would be more demanding than both crouching and DJL, IMO.
So I can get this on Fox and a few other characters pretty consistently, but sometimes I just... can't. How much leniency is the for timing this for characters other than Fox? Also, I've been playing against a bunch of my friend's low tiers, so I'm getting all sorts of different timings.
Since I've started trolling with neutral b I've found it's sometimes a really powerful mix up, especially if someone expects Yoshi to be as strong against shields as he is. It doesn't kill, doesn't give a ton of damage, hardly leads in to ****, but it allows you to control the stage, the game's pace, and how your opponent thinks you're going to approach pretty well.
And the grab box is really consistent, it's almost a guaranteed catch on some recoveries. Maybe against Falcon/Ganon it'll always work.
Sadly wave land on stage>neutral b isn't as good as I wished it was, it's just too slow. Oh well, still learned a lot about the move. Yay more options!
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
Once your opponent realizes they can act out of it immediately, they'll either punish you most of the time it lands, or they'll give you to forfeit stage stage when it lands.
The only exception I can think of is on floaties where it gives them airborne at high to medium percent. Then you can punish their landings.
Also, if you neutral b a falcon or Ganon recovery, you're almost certainly losing a great position. The only advantage I can think of is they won't be able to tech it... So you might use it if you are forced to be so close to the ledge that you can't space a d tilt or d smash, nor do you have time to grab ledge and rising nair.
The only exception I can think of is on floaties where it gives them airborne at high to medium percent. Then you can punish their landings.
Also, if you neutral b a falcon or Ganon recovery, you're almost certainly losing a great position. The only advantage I can think of is they won't be able to tech it... So you might use it if you are forced to be so close to the ledge that you can't space a d tilt or d smash, nor do you have time to grab ledge and rising nair.
MrHazuki
Smash Ace
The only reason I use neutral B is to tell my opponent that they are my poop.
Purpletuce
Smash Lord
I like calling it the slurp. Try adding loud slurping noises when they shield.
Sashimi
Smash Ace
- Joined
- May 25, 2013
- Messages
- 704
I think Egg Lay is a pretty good tool.
The follow-ups are not guaranteed, obviously. But it's pretty easy to not get punished for using this move. Most people mash out of it in the same way every time, and if you get them to land on a platform with it (pretty easy on anyone who isn't a fastfaller) you can't really get punished. Even without follow-ups it has value as something you can use in the air to beat shields.
I'd never use it on a recovering opponent, though.
The follow-ups are not guaranteed, obviously. But it's pretty easy to not get punished for using this move. Most people mash out of it in the same way every time, and if you get them to land on a platform with it (pretty easy on anyone who isn't a fastfaller) you can't really get punished. Even without follow-ups it has value as something you can use in the air to beat shields.
I'd never use it on a recovering opponent, though.