Q&A Ask about Pikachu! Hosted by Axe and N64! feat. dkuo!

[Boondocker]

So, double post, but I went to a local tourney today, and had a few good sets against s0ft recorded. The recording is at http://www.twitch.tv/typohousegames/b/582234720 winners finals starts around 52:00 and grands starts around 1:56:00. The video stutters a bit at parts, but hopefully that isn't too problematic. They were fun sets, and a good reminder of how much I have to improve on. But, I know I don't have many videos up despite how vocal I am on the forums, so hopefully this helps answer those of you who've asked for vids of me! yeah

Edit: They put it up on youtube if you prefer that.
Winners Finals
Grand Finals

On winners finals:
What do you think about forward tilt after a running jolt? That tends to be my go to move, but i noticed you did some nairs after jolt.
I also noticed that you never uptilted after a nair. I do that if i predict that they will drop their sheild. How safe is uptilt on shield?
Also, that first game was painful to watch, but congrats on winning. Ill comment on grand finals later.

 

[N64]

Forward tilt after running jolt is probably fine. I'm not sure exactly what it covers, but could be a decent option if the jolt hits and you don't really have enough stage to nair through them, so ftilt will hopefully send them offstage and put you in a good position. I generally nair after jolt because if I fullhop it it covers them trying to jump over jolt, or if i shorthop it it covers people shielding (or getting hit by) jolt. If it connects, I can potentially follow with a jc usmash or a techchase (or another nair, whatever makes sense based on their percentage) using my momentum to keep on them. Jolt doesn't have to hit to be good (though that's the main hope with it). Jolt can lock someone down, reducing their viable options and giving them something else to worry about as you approach, which can help with the success of your approach. Ftilt after jolt seems like a safe-but-low reward option most of the time, but I can see it being useful in the situation I mentioned.

I used to uptilt after nair occasionally, but now I don't like it as much. It's probably fine to throw in occasionally, because it has a slightly different timing than your other followups (uair, nair, dashdance usmash/grab). It comes out slightly slower than your immediate aerials, so you can catch people (as you mentioned) who try to jump/wd out of shield slightly delayed (so they shield the likely-rising-uair coming after). In that position (you being right behind them and hitting their shield with the early hitbox of utilt) It's safe against some chars and less safe against others. It doesn't have a lot of shieldstun, so they're likely to be out of shieldstun right as your utilt ends. Against Fox/Falco I'd be pretty weary of this because they can shine out of shield you before utilt comes out. Against Marth I could have maybe done it a couple times, but I was afraid if he shielded it he could dashaway->dashback and threaten grab if I didn't dash away immediately after utilt (and it might still work because Marth's grabrange is bonkers). If I get utilt on Marth I don't think it'd lead to much anyways, probably like utilt->uair->nair or just utilt->nair. Just rising uair after the nair on shield gets me about the same benefit while also being safer. Successful utilt on Fox could lead to some sweet combos, but again it's rather risky and rising uair covers almost all the same stuff while being safer.

Thanks for watching though! I'm always up for constructive criticism/discussion on what I could do better. I haven't gotten to watch my matches much recently, and I'm noticing a lot of things I want to start doing differently (mostly not messing up tech all the goddamn time lol).

 

[The Jets]

Good ish N64! that feekin sheik tho -_- s0ft is mad good. I always pictured you looking like your smashboards avi lmao, like an older gentlesir.

I have another important issue: if I rock Robin Hood green pikachu, will be shunned from the pika community?

 

[N64]

All hats are fine hats. Even no hat is ok! (as long as you're ok being naked in front of everyone).

Went to another tourney last weekend, this one with some more notable players from the greater atlanta area (and some from other parts of GA). The stream recording is at http://www.twitch.tv/ptssbm/b/584309577.
First set is vs Rum(Peach) and starts at 1:55.
Second is vs Nicaboy(Sheik) and starts at 2:11.
Third is vs Tubes(C.Falcon) and starts at 2:42.

Hope you enjoy!

 

[Wreck_94]

Good sh*t on the first set against Rum. I have a hard time with the peach matchup. And that last match against Tubes was hella close. I think you would've had it if you opted for upsmash instead of nair after that last upthrow.

 

[N64]

Thanks. Yeah, I was expecting him to DI to the platform, and had set "i'm going to nair his tech" in my mind, so when he DI'd left I just went for nair anyways. Usmash would have killed.

 

[mattergamer47]

I apologize if you answered this already, but what are your least favorite matchups as Pikachu. I'm guessing Sheik because of the chain grab.

 

[N64]

top 4 least favorite, in approximate order
ICs
Jiggs
Peach
Sheik

ICs kill you off a grab, and have a pretty good ground game combined with good ground mobility. They force you to fight on the ground a lot, where they excel. You can't combo or kill Jiggs or Peach if they know what they're doing. You play an attrition war that you aren't good at. Sheik has good normals and a chainthrow, but you can at least do things if you catch her or put her on the defensive. She's comboable and edgeguardable.

 

[Wreck_94]

So how does everyone here feel about the falco matchup? That what I'm struggling with the most in my area. Honestly I have an easier time fighting the sheik and peach mains here than getting falcomastered.

 

[The Jets]

They say the hardest part is getting around the lasers, that's why falco loves final destination. You have to use platforms and pikachu movement to get in and punish hard. Throw or knock em off then end it with an edgeguard or off stage hit.

My problem with falco is that he combos me super hard and I have bad combo DI and ability to tech. Another trouble spot is shine pressure that can destroy pikas little shield. I think you can make it so you get as many openings as him you just have to be able to punish hard too.

Hard but not impossible. I think it just comes down to the better player.

What I should have asked: what part do you find the hardest? Getting in during neutral? Or is everything just too overwhelming

 

[Wreck_94]

Shine pressure is really what kills me. Pikachu's little baby shield gets stabbed so easy. Between that and just how hard Falco punishes, it just makes the matchup overwhelming.

Lasers aren't as big of a deal as they use to be for me. I actually like FD against Falco since I can consistently chaingrab. If that gets banned then I usually either end up taking it to FoD or Dreamland depending on how the Falco is playing.

 

[Comet7]

sooooo i was messing around with cpus with pikachu and came across some sort of glitch. it was on final destination where i quick attacked upwards and then diagonally to the left, and the second part hit marth's shield and then i was teleported to the other side of the stage. has this happened to anybody else?

 

[Wreck_94]

If pikachu did a slide and zipped to the other side of the stage then you probably got his superwavedash. Does that sound like what happened?

 

[Comet7]

yeah, that's probably it. i actually thought it looked like a super wavedash, except i thought only samus could do that. perfect agility > this.

 

[Wreck_94]

Yeah, if the second part of pika's up-b clanks with something it will cancel the animation, but he'll retain all of his momentum. You'll usually see this when it clanks with a projectile.
This gif shows it: http://gfycat.com/EvenAnxiousIndianpangolin

 

[PonderousSealion]

Hello pikas, long time lurker, first time poster. I currently double main pikachu and Ganon, so i was wondering what everyone's opinions are as to who i should pick up as a tertiary character? I'm guessing something that does reasonably well against sheik, but Idk. Preferably lowish tier because i dislike high tier characters but I'm willing to listen to any opinions. I was looking at doc and samus but i don't know about those matchups. Thoughts from fellow pikas?

 

[mynameisdog4]

Yeah, if the second part of pika's up-b clanks with something it will cancel the animation, but he'll retain all of his momentum. You'll usually see this when it clanks with a projectile.
This gif shows it: http://gfycat.com/EvenAnxiousIndianpangolin

I think that happens when it clanks with something that has equal priority. I'm not sure what Marth would have that would trigger it. I know it can happen with Fox's uptilt sometimes.

 

[PonderousSealion]

Oh and a cool mind game i sorta invented (though you guys may already do this) is jumping, short hop or regular (since you won't reach the peak of the jump anyways on either) then immediately up b-ing into the ground so you barely lift off the ground and have little landing lag. It works well vs people who like to spam dash dance as they might be baited in,thinking you're gonna try something. What are y'all's thoughts?

 

[AXE 09]

Oh and a cool mind game i sorta invented (though you guys may already do this) is jumping, short hop or regular (since you won't reach the peak of the jump anyways on either) then immediately up b-ing into the ground so you barely lift off the ground and have little landing lag. It works well vs people who like to spam dash dance as they might be baited in,thinking you're gonna try something. What are y'all's thoughts?

I'm probably not understanding it right. I'm imagining jumping and then doing your up-b straight downwards, which gives you a ton of landing lag

 

[PonderousSealion]

I'm probably not understanding it right. I'm imagining jumping and then doing your up-b straight downwards, which gives you a ton of landing lag

Actually scrap that my friends are just really bad lol

EDIT: Hard to test things when their main strategy is sitting in the corner and spamming Link arrows. Probably why the punish was so slow and it was actually working

 

[Maximusdödus]

Yo dudes, edgeguarding people in general isnt all that difficult however i tend to struggle against Marths recovering low. Takeing the edge seems like one option and punish landing lag but im bad and im not fast enough fundamentally yet, so is there any other ways to edgeguard Marth? Like drop off double jump N-air to hit him comeing upwards?

Also shameless fanboying, Axe you are awsome <3

 

[N64]

Drop off double jump dair would probably be better, more likely to kill. Really, though, there's no replacement for edgehogging in this matchup. It is incredibly useful and just hard for marth to deal with.

 

[N64]

Double post, but my guide from 2011 is finally done done done. I finished the matchup section over the course of the past few weeks, and did a final passover this past week, making some minor edits and adding movedata and stuff. As such, I added it to smashboards guide section, so go check that out and upvote/like/groovypoints it and whatever. But yeah, it's done! woooo.

 

[Palmerfan]

Does pika have any good options out of jab that aren't another jab?

 

[dkuo]

jab takes 21 frames to finish and is only interruptable with another jab by frame 5. so pika actually has a super laggy jab that youre stuck in unless you want to jab again

so...outside of specific uses (team wobble multijabs, edgeguard multijabs, jab reset, etc) i think youll be hard-pressed to find good options after pika's jab

interesting note - jab cooldown is the same as dtilt cooldown, except you can interrupt dtilt at frame 19 with anything...so technically its even faster unless compared to jab > jab

 

[voorhese]

Can I get some advice on my doubles? before you critique me, know that I am fully aware of my awful downsmashes, that was an uncharacteristic habit I apparently developed right before these sets. and if you notice I clean them up a bit in GF. Thanks a bunch!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-tbfEaIcFU - WF
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-ypYw_NPMo - GF

 

[JemTheScrub101]

Hi fellow Pikamains, can you give me some of your thoughts on Quick Attack Out of Shield? Thanks in advance

 

[voorhese]

Hi fellow Pikamains, can you give me some of your thoughts on Quick Attack Out of Shield? Thanks in advance

I've thought about it, when I can retreat to the ledge, or ledge cancel on a platform (into a lightshield).

 

[Mittenz]

Hi fellow Pikamains, can you give me some of your thoughts on Quick Attack Out of Shield? Thanks in advance

You have better OoS options since QA has quite a lot of start up time and low priority. You shouldn't really be stuck in shield unless you're being pressured, and if your opponent is applying pressure properly it'll be hard to get QA off between your opponents attacks. Even if you do get the hit box out, with its low priority you may still end up eating an opponents attack. Also you don't really gain the offensive if you QA away. Rising u-air, grab, jump cancel up-smash, or wavedash are much better options OoS.

 

[soju]

So like I just saw a recent video with Anther's(who like inspired my pika way back) pikachu like 5 minutes ago... And my bud A Rookie has been nagging me to start playing again... I have feels.

 

[Kuralesache]

I discovered this tech the other day, any idea whether this is useful or not?
http://twitch.tv/yokatsu_makuo/c/5735856

To explain, I'm doing a quick-attack directly sideways on the frame that I leave the ground, so that it cancels part of the landing lag, and using that to reset bowser off the ground.
It's risky, cause if you mess up you're stuck in a lot of lag, but interestingly, you can't do a second quick-attack if do it perfectly, so you can option-select a different escape direction when doing it, and if you mess up, you'll get out to relative safety, and if you don't mess up, you can follow up.

The reset is the only place I could think of to apply it, but I'm wondering if there's anything else you can do with it.

 

[soju]

In theory that would work, say certain conditions are met, but more often then not you'll be in jab range if someone misses their tech which is almost always going to be better for the reset. Quick Attacks on stage, from what I know, are generally frowned on if you don't have a way to remove the landing lag, via ledge grab or cancel. But it's all about risk-reward, if I was in that situation I'd rather try to jab reset or go after where he gets up, since if you do mess up your options would be QA back to your original spot or to an upper ledge, and as a Pika I'd prefer not to be on a ledge above someone, just not his strong suit. Also the time it takes to get the QA started is more then enough for your opponent to roll away or get up.

But I could be wrong, that's theory-crafting for ya.

 

[foxygrandpa182]

I have a big problem with my friend who plays marth. His playstyle is shield by the edge->grab->back throw->aerials or forward smash. I find it very difficult to sweetspot the ledge so he can just forward smash me to my death, but I am getting better at that. So I have a couple questions:

If he's shielding right next to the ledge, what do I do to pressure? Just throw out thunderjolts? Usually I like to nair through shields and follow up with rising up air or something while I'm behind them. But I can't do that if he's on the ledge.

If I grab the ledge and he's shielding on stage ready to fsmash me, what's my best option? I like to use the last hitbox of the uair to flip him offstage but lately he's caught on and we tend to trade a lot, which doesn't favor me.

Also, unrelated, what's the best way to DI out of a sheik chaingrab? Thank you guys so much.

 

[soju]

If he's shielding right next to the ledge, what do I do to pressure? Just throw out thunderjolts? Usually I like to nair through shields and follow up with rising up air or something while I'm behind them. But I can't do that if he's on the ledge.

If he is right on the ledge and won't budge just throw out a thunderjolt that's in the air and it should push him off the stage, remember it'll do slightly more knockback if it's still in the air, it'll increase your options by a lot. If there's a bit of space behind him go for an aerial that'll land behind him and do your uairs. You can still do that also without having to land on the stage if you pre-buffer the aerial a bit before it lands so the animation ends as soon as you're behind him.

If I grab the ledge and he's shielding on stage ready to fsmash me, what's my best option? I like to use the last hitbox of the uair to flip him offstage but lately he's caught on and we tend to trade a lot, which doesn't favor me.

Just mix up your recovery, QAing onto platforms, fair works nicely sometimes, even a roll is great if they're not expecting it. Now if the problem is when you're getting back to the ledge, you're two best options is to learn to sweetspot better or avoid FD, platforms=goodness.

Also, unrelated, what's the best way to DI out of a sheik chaingrab? Thank you guys so much.

Towards a platform on low platform stages or the ledge

 

[dkuo]

just a small addendum to @ soju 's post

If he's shielding right next to the ledge, what do I do to pressure? Just throw out thunderjolts? Usually I like to nair through shields and follow up with rising up air or something while I'm behind them. But I can't do that if he's on the ledge.

you could also just move around outside his oos range until he throws something out

feel free to throw in some grab occasionally .-. just remember that if you punish his ledge shielding with grab he'll be more inclined to leave that position in the future. but remember that every time you grab marth by ledge = another opportunity for a throw offstage > gimp

keep in mind that...the danger of aerial jolt vs ledge shielding is that if marth reads you correctly he can just wdoos back in and now youre above him. if you play patiently while staying grounded and he wd's in he'll still take back some stage but you wont be in as bad of a position from it

similarly, any other committal options are easily punished with a good read (nair, running grab, etc) or at the very least you risk losing some stage. on the other hand, it can land you some strong rewards that playing patiently with movement might not give you

If I grab the ledge and he's shielding on stage ready to fsmash me, what's my best option? I like to use the last hitbox of the uair to flip him offstage but lately he's caught on and we tend to trade a lot, which doesn't favor me.

learn invincible ledgedash

almost always the best option from ledge for most scenarios

ledgedash > shield will work most of the time vs marth's fsmash by the ledge

if you want a counterattack off his fsmash you can do ledgedash > slight dash in > shield so that it doesnt tipper your shield and you can wdoos punish the sourspot fsmash. this depends on marths spacing/timing though

Also, unrelated, what's the best way to DI out of a sheik chaingrab? Thank you guys so much.

what soju said is good

remember that some sheiks dont know how to regrab ambiguous di behind

 

[JemTheScrub101]

Out of curiosity, are there any Pika mains out there who play bald or hatless Chu like myself or am I the only one

 

[soju]

I play naked chu when I'm practicing. I also believe hat privileges are earned by the number of space animals you gimp.

 

[JemTheScrub101]

I also believe hat privileges are earned by the number of space animals you gimp.

Well if this true, I might be playing naked chu for a while

 

[The Jets]

Hi pika friends! Went to a tournament in my friends basement this Saturday and had almost 60 people sign up for melee! I ended up winning it was a lot of fun. Anyway I have a few matches from the tournament if you want to check them out. Feel free to ignore this or watch it and tell me that my combos suck. Enjoy!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITwbJkxv_38
pika vs. fox

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BQKOrgEQRQ
pika vs. my good friend who is a marth

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icLj7y2U7Dw
pika vs. marth/falco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEwqvB-lCc
pika vs. puff WF

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xEwqvB-lCc
pika vs. puff GF

both puff games I used mario a bit

*DISCLAIMER a lot of these folks have not been playing competitively long

 

[The Jets]

going to repost my previous post in its own thread to keep clutter away