Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[Shadow the Past]

It really just depends on their di. If they can keep themselves away from the stage, it won't spike.

 

[Gardex]

Dash attack has like 3 different hitboxes though. That might have something to do with it.

Timing- and DI-dependant, in other words.

A well-timed dash attack can hit so many characters out of their recovery(IE all of Metaknight's specials)

 

[SFA Smiley]

Dee eye

fdj.narkjb.rgj

 

[Alphicans]

protip: when running away from MK's nado, try dash attacking while running. I've had it hit a few times, and it looks hot as ****.

 

[Damittom]

Dash attack away from the nado when he's chasing you, or turning around and dash attacking in?

 

[Sar]

Yeah i was a little bit confused about that too =P

 

[Alphicans]

Dash attack away

 

[Gardex]

Probably sets up for a nair string too, amirite?

 

[Patches]

Probably sets up for a nair string too, amirite?

I can see this happening. Or a free bair

 

[Alphicans]

If you hit with the last few frames, then yeah it'll combo.

 

[Sar]

is the 2nd hit of snake's ftilt a shieldpoke or something? All i know is that I (think) i hold down shield when I know it's coming out and i'm in range, but the second hit often (seems to) hit through shield. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I have so much trouble against this move.

Also approaching snake when we're at kill percent is just like a death wish because utilt trades with like everyyyything we have. And it's not even easy to mix in grabs because our grab sucks hard.

 

[UTDZac]

The 2nd hit does seem to punish you for shielding if your shield is low. It's hard to say. I recall having trouble shielding against it. It's frustrating.

Bair is a very safe approach for G&W when at high percents. Just move around a lot horizontally and the snake will have trouble hitting you with utilt.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I've had bair outranged by utilt countless times in that MU. It sucks really hard to get behind and be forced to find a way in past utilt.

 

[UTDZac]

Hooow!? Bair always works for me. I mean, technically it's a possible for utilt to outrage Bair, but that's so rare. I've see it like once... Are you angling your falling Bair wrong? You should be aiming for Snake's knees with the tip of the turtle.

 

[Shadow the Past]

Bair is very unsafe at high percents, especially against people like Snake :/ all he has to do is shield, and in between hits drop shield and utilt.

Soooo much lag on shield

 

[UTDZac]

Bair is very unsafe at high percents, especially against people like Snake :/ all he has to do is shield, and in between hits drop shield and utilt.

Soooo much lag on shield

This is not possible. You can't drop shield in the middle of bair hits, you'd have to wait for it to finish completely... no?

Spacing is important. You don't poke with the full body of bair into his shield. You only touch with the head of the turtle, nothing else. The damage bair deals doesn't matter, you are aiming to get Snake into the air.

Are you not falling away with your bairs as you hit shield, here's a good example.

 

[Shadow the Past]

This is not possible. You can't drop shield in the middle of bair hits, you'd have to wait for it to finish completely... no?

Spacing is important. You don't poke with the full body of bair into his shield. You only touch with the head of the turtle, nothing else. The damage bair deals doesn't matter, you are aiming to get Snake into the air.

Are you not falling away with your bairs as you hit shield, here's a good example.

I don't know the frame data, but I recall being punished rather regularly for hitting bair on shield, regardless of what part of the hitbox was currently out.

I could be entirely wrong, but I just know G&W generally has horrible shield pressure.

 

[UTDZac]

If you have videos of the Snake punish, I'd be impressed. I just can't recall this ever being a problem, even against great snakes like Razer. Once they learned to just take the hit from bair, Smash DI, then bair me... it became a problem.

 

[Gardex]

There are select few options that can punish bair on shield, Snake's utilt is not one of them.

 

[Safaridor]

Has anyone done research into how G&W judgement works. I have tried researching but my resulted returns quite fruitless. I did not know if there was a forum buried somewhere in the character forums or elsewhere. All I know as of now is that judgement can not pull the same number as one pulled two times before it (though I may have even that information wrong).

 

[-LzR-]

And I think you cannot pull a 1 for your first hammer and you cannot pull the last 2 hammers for that stock. The rng behind it is not able to be manipulated, not as far as I know, it would be awesome if we found a way.

 

[Sar]

Can anyone tell me exactly how staling (not to be confused with stalling) works? Or link me to a post/thread that explains it in detail? I want to know the specifics.

 

[Safaridor]

While I believe this to be something that would belong more in the brawl general discussion, I will give a brief explanation, though I'm sure other people here are more familiar with google and will link you to a better definition.

Staling (or stale moves [what I think you are asking about]) occurs from using a move repetively. The designer did not like the idea of spamming in his game, so every X (undetermined by me) times you use a move, it gets reduced damage and knock-back. The main problem with stale moves is when your killing move is stale (it gets less knock-back, thus can not kill anymore).

That should be it.

 

[SFA Smiley]

^it's fine here.

Stale moves counter is 10. Moves only stale if they actually come in contact with a hurtbox. This can be a character, item or stage hazard as long as it has a hurbox (Snake's grenades or Castle Siege statues for example.)

IIRC a move only stales one time per time it comes in contact with a hit box. So if you hit 2 people with an attack it only stales once. Multi hit moves only stale a move one time as well. However multiple attacks of the same move in quick succession are individually staled. So turtle despite hitting 5 times will only stale once because it's a singular multihit move. However Dancing Blade and Pikachu's Jab are singular moves that attack in quick succession so each time an attack comes in contact with a hurtbox they are staling the move overall.

Staling is important to understand as Game&Watch because our power lies in our moves being fresh and we are a character that does well at keeping our moves fresh because we have 2 windbox moves. Every Uair landed on a hurtbox (whether it's a character or a Balloon on smashville) will stale uair however it will unstale another move. Also the windbox on Up-B does the same so generally if you Up-B OOS a close range attack you will be unstaling your attacks. Also this is VERY important and a lot of people don't know this about Gdubs but Bucket stales when it absorbs. Which means if you have a full bucket you want to make sure it's fresh before you just throw it out. With the more broken buckets (Like ZSS's Dsmash) it's not as important but with weaker buckets like Falcos it's very important because it can mean the difference between getting the KO off or not.

Edit: @ LZR up there: You can't pull a 1 or 2 on the first hammer.

 

[Sar]

Thanks Smiley. The stale move counter was what I was forgetting. But the mechanic is still a little foggy to me. Lets say i land 10 nairs in a row, nair should be staled as far as it can go, right? Now, what if I hit with another attack, like dair. Does that mean that nair is now only 9/10 as staled as it was before? Or what if I land 5 dairs? Is it only staled 1/2 as much as it was before? Or does it stay staled until i hit with ten different hitboxes, at which point it goes back to being fresh?

EDIT: Nvm, This article has everything i wanted. Worthwhile read if anyone is interested.
http://www.ssbwiki.com/Stale-move_negation

 

[-LzR-]

Edit: @ LZR up there: You can't pull a 1 or 2 on the first hammer.

Are you sure? I used to think this was the case too, but when some people around here had a hammer money match (where they just sideB and who gets the best hammer wins money) and players have gotten 2 as their first one.

 

[Sar]

Are you sure? I used to think this was the case too, but when some people around here had a hammer money match (where they just sideB and who gets the best hammer wins money) and players have gotten 2 as their first one.

No i think you're right. IIRC its that you can't pull a 1 on either of the first two hammers.

 

[UTDZac]

You are correct. You cannot pull a 1 on the first or second SideB.

For more fun facts about G&W, check out Little known facts about Mr. Game & Watch

 

[mars16]

How do we destroy wolf?

I went to a tourney and got knocked out of brackets because of wolf..

 

[-LzR-]

I don't really know anything about the MU, but bucket all of his lasers unless you are at kill %, it's totally worth it. And do not challenge his bair, it's crazy good.

 

[mars16]

Yea I noticed! His bair **** the crap out of me

 

[UTDZac]

Focus more on spacing/zoning his bair while you are in the air. Don't worry so much about doing damage with aerials; care more about avoiding that bair sweetspot of his. Once you get the hang of it, your bair should be able to do work on him.

I don't know that much about the matchup. I just know that wolf is fairly mobile in the air and can surprise you with his smashes or his downB. Just keep those things in mind and don't let your guard down.

 

[Sar]

With really conservative rulesets being the norm now, what do you think are out best stages? I personally like BF and Lylatt, but i just love platforms. Some stages to consider are BF, FD, SV, YI, Fino, Halberd, Frigate, Castle Seige, PS1

 

[Gardex]

Lylat is so amazing. It's the new Rainbow for me. Nobody lets me pick it anymore B)

Frigate is also love.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I suck on lylat. I generally just play smashville over and over nowadays.

Wolf's hard for me, one of my worst matchups. Probably my 3rd worst actually. Although at apex I MM'd Lycan and both games were close. Surprisingly, to me, because i suck at fighting wolf.

 

[-LzR-]

Depends on how conservative. If something like Halberd is legal then it's awesome, super mega early kills, great ledge options and some sharking included.
Delfino is also decent, but our lack of a throw that kills people at the walkoffs is kinda lame, we are most likely the worst character at doing that.

Frigate is my pick if those 2 are for some wicked reason banned. It has a low ceiling and I think the layouts are useful for us. On the 2nd transformation your recoveries are made easier when you can upB into the side platforms instead of the ledge. And the sloped floor also buffs Dtilt greatly and the platform above makes it really hard to get past it.
Though the right side without the ledge hurts us, it's not a big issues really as with good DI we never even need to touch a ledge and it allows us to land retardedly easy smashes on characters with recoveries that really need that sweetspot.

Aside from FD being bad (depending on MU) we are great on all the stages out there. Battlefield is probably my favorite of the starter stages. I don't know what Gardex knows about Lylat that I don't, but I guess it's not bad.

 

[Sar]

What's the best way to deal with diddy's bananas in general? Picking them up/what to do after tripping on them in particular. Is getup to upB the best way to recover after slipping?

 

[-LzR-]

When you slip, you lose. GW has the worst tripping animation in the game. I heard Diddy might be able to infinite us by simple jumping over us, throwing a banana down and repeat. Personally I think the MU is borderline unbeatable, Diddy has the ultimate defense in this game. If you still feel like trying, try to kill him early on. A simple dsmash at the right time could decide the match, Diddy can't really kill us early as his upwards killers are weak and so are his sideways killers. I wouldn't recommend doing much with the bananas except just making the unreachable for Diddy. GW doesn't have a good banana game really, but if you manage to somehow land a banana next to Diddy, it's a free smash, but that's about it.

 

[Damittom]

Finally people are starting to see how bad we lose this matchup especially if the diddy can do the infinite. And yes we are one of the easiest ones to be set up into the infinite due to our slow trip animation and overall poor options against diddy in general. I don't think he can infinite without the footstool but our trip does make the infinite relatively easy to perform

 

[SFA Smiley]

Don't think it's THAT bad. Catch-land bananas, reserve your jumps so you don't get frametrapped (Also using a lot of up-b jump mixups help), don't attack diddy when he's in his shield, and keep positive control of a banana at all times. I'm not even that good at the matchup but it's a lot easier when you play with these things in mind. Diddy is mainly SUPER gay when he has 2 nanas but with one it's much easier to compete with him.