Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[-LzR-]

All of those things you mentioned are extremely limiting and hard to deal with.

 

[UTDZac]

Don't think it's THAT bad. Catch-land bananas, reserve your jumps so you don't get frametrapped (Also using a lot of up-b jump mixups help), don't attack diddy when he's in his shield, and keep positive control of a banana at all times. I'm not even that good at the matchup but it's a lot easier when you play with these things in mind. Diddy is mainly SUPER gay when he has 2 nanas but with one it's much easier to compete with him.

I agree with this advice. The only difference is I attack Diddys in shield as long as they don't also have a banana in hand.

How to beat Diddy:
1. Control the bananas
2. Kill the monkey

 

[Damittom]

I love how everyone's best advice for beating diddy is to control his bannas. No self respecting diddy main is going to let you control his bananas for any significant amount of time. That control the banana advice only works if you are at a higher skill level than the diddy

 

[Sar]

I love how everyone's best advice for beating diddy is to control his bannas. No self respecting diddy main is going to let you control his bananas for any significant amount of time. That control the banana advice only works if you are at a higher skill level than the diddy

This.

Is it just better to throw his bananas off the stage?

 

[-LzR-]

No, use the banana if an opportunity rises, but generally throwing them off the stage is just telling Diddy to pluck another one. Better throw them away from Diddy so he has to go and pick it up or wait for it to disappear. I also agree that you can't really use the bananas against a good Diddy, they know everything about the naners, they won't fall for your dumb glidetoss.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Don't throw the bananas away. Just hold them (You can attack with bananas in your hand out of Up-B, it won't be your main way of attacking but you can use it to stay safe while keeping control of a nana. Also I keep bananas behind me where I have better access to them than diddy, if you're catchlanding them and catching the ones thrown at you it shouldn't be hard to get your hands on them, honest. You won't ever be able to control bananas better than a diddy (that is of equal skill level) because of the design of his character but you don't need to to win, you just have to not get ****ed up by them.

Honestly peanuts annoy me more in the matchup than the bananas do, but this is one of those things that makes me weird and different than everyone else again. It's so dumb he can cancel that move, i'm hella jelly, why can't we cancel bacon?

edit: never throw them away. Just keep positive control of one, the longer you have it or you just throw it up the longer he cant pull a second. He's wayyy more manageable with just one.

 

[Alphicans]

You can aerial with bananas really easily. Z drop then aerial. I bet you could play an entire match with a banana in your hand pretty much standard if you're good enough at doing it.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah because that totally isn't predictable or slow as **** to do.

 

[SFA Smiley]

No.

Hfsyfsvyjysbyixj

 

[UTDZac]

I love how everyone's best advice for beating diddy is to control his bannas. No self respecting diddy main is going to let you control his bananas for any significant amount of time. That control the banana advice only works if you are at a higher skill level than the diddy

What?

I've had success with this strategy against great Diddy mains, including ADHD and Gnes. I don't consider myself a more highly skilled player than either of them... If you let Diddy Kong players do whatever they want with bananas, you will lose everytime. Bananas cut your options, which cuts your defensive and offensive play significantly. If instead, you focus on preventing Diddy's control of his bananas (aka. controlling them yourself) then you will be much better off.

Imagine if Diddy couldn't spawn bananas... what type of match-up would that be now?

Here are some games against Gnes in no particular order. These are from 2010. Sadly I have nothing recently:

• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzCCv3DrKc0 (Battlefield)
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2wiJy_NTWk (Smashville)
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRgMQLHkQEw (Smashville)
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WDRK_4XHCE (Rainbow Cruise)
• http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHhW0nOvho8 (Frigate)

 

[Damittom]

There is a difference between controlling the bananas and keeping Diddy from using them. One has to do with pressure and one has to do with being a better item player than the Diddy main, the later of which will almost never happen. When you said control the bananas I assumed you meant use the bananas to your advantage. What you stated and provided examples of in your second statement was to keep Diddy from using the bananas. But, what I responded to was not to "prevent Diddy's control of the bananas" but instead "control the bananas", which I still argue will never happen when you play a player of equal or greater skill level.

 

[UTDZac]

That's fair. My primary goal when I tell people to "control bananas" is to think while playing against a Diddy. You can't mindlessly fight 1v1. You have to recognize the fact that the bananas are gonna screw with you. You have to be able to manipulate them. Ignoring the bananas, whether that's by not touching them or forgetting where they are, will result in a loss.

 

[Damittom]

True but due to this fact its also fair to assume that to achieve success in this match up we must outplay the Diddy and I would argue that the better the Diddy player is the more difficult it is to succeed with your strategy. I still hold that this match-up is one of our most difficult (second in my opinion) and people continuously over simplify it on the boards.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Nobody is oversimplifying it. It's a bad matchup. You generally have to outplay your opponent to win those. I don't get what you and LzR are arguing. It's not impossible.

Edit: Control bananas does not mean throw them at diddy.

 

[UTDZac]

I'm not oversimplifying it either. I personally think this match-up isn't in the top 5 worst matchups for G&W.

EDIT: and at the same time, I have yet to meet another G&W who feels as comfortable as I do playing against Diddy.

 

[Gardex]

I'm getting there, UTDzac, but not quiiite yet.

Diddy isn't that bad guys, it just takes a lot of practice.

I do have some replays of me playing one of the better Diddies in Europe(Schwa). It's not quite Zac-level, but it's fairly recent. If you guys want, then I could probably upload it.

I also played with Istudy and River this past weekend, but sadly didn't save replays. I won 3-1 vs River and lost a very close 3-2 to Istudy. For those of you who don't know, Istudying is one of the better players in Europe, and easily a top 5 Diddy Kong in Europe

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah and Marth isn't too bad either, it just takes a lot of practice, riiiiight?

 

[Gardex]

No that guy is simply hard

 

[SFA Smiley]

Marth is ACTUALLY full on **** we just can't stop lol.

 

[Gardex]

He's MK, except his aerial mobility is scary, his ledgetrapping is even scarier, hard to techchase out of dthrow and has a grab that kills at 120-130

 

[-LzR-]

Marth isn't really much harder than MK. They are on kinda similar level, but the upB from Marth is what does the stuff.
Also I played against Schwa today and to my surprise I didn't get *****, instead it was kinda evenish. I even won matches. Hooray for optimal ownage.

 

[Gardex]

That's what happens when you start using the c-stick

 

[-LzR-]

It was all about that totally new controller I was using. Aww yeaaah. My Icies have also become better without any effort. It's interesting how you improve better by not playing so much.

 

[Sar]

I've realized that I have problems punishing snake's dacus, a lot more trouble than I should have. Too often I either let it hit me or I shield it and let it fly by, and when I drop my shield after snake is out of range of any of my moves. I've noticed that it loses when it just runs into an active hitbox I have out, is the best way to punish to just get better at predicting it and then learn to throw out fsmash or dtilt?

 

[SFA Smiley]

I just stopped trying to punish it. The snakes I play mix it up too well and I always botch the punish too. Although 2 years ago I 9'd a vegas snake out of his when a crowd was watching me. It was hype ****

 

[-LzR-]

I would just try to Dtilt when you expect a Dacus. It's not too laggy so you won't overcommit to punishing it. And the trajectory is great too and allows you to jump at Snake after it hits. As most of the time Snakes won't really Dacus in the center of the stage it means at like mid % Snake will be sent over the edge where he kinda sucks so you can abuse it.

 

[Gardex]

The way I do it is that I use an empty smash which will bait the dacus. Now, the dacus would actually hit me before my next smash, so it's actually well timed(considering I'm facing a decent snake). But I'll just shield instead, and then punish with fair/bair.

That's just how I do it because my luck is rotten when it comes to stopping the dacus directly, unless I'm just doing bair. Retreating bair works.

While we're talking about Snake, did I ever tell you guys how amazing usmash is in this matchup?
It has probably become one of my main killers.

 

[-LzR-]

I do not understand how usmash could hit snake. Why not just dsmash instead?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Usmash on snakes landing if you space it correctly im assuming.

 

[Gardex]

When he's in the air. It beats all of his options except airdodge, but you can just charge and wait. Dsmash covers a larger area, but they can bair you fairly easily.

Creates guessing scenario with odds in your favor.
Of course, you have to actually set it up. Snake's b-reversal is a pretty nice landing tool he has, so you gotta uair him until you see a chance where he can't get away.

Works on the top 3 snakes in Europe(Unless you count Ramin, I haven't played his Snake), so idk, you be the judges

 

[-LzR-]

Well yeah Snake is one of the few characters you can actually Usmash now that I think of it. You just have to first take his jumps and make him not use nades just like you said. And then usmash with good timing too, but I guess it's worth it.

 

[Sar]

If snake airdodges through our usmash does he have the advantage on the ground or do we?

 

[Gardex]

Usmash has like no ending lag(read: little)

 

[Sar]

I've heard multiple sources say that it's better to practice on level 8 CPUs than on level 9s. Is this true? Apparently playing against level 9s will cause you to develop habits that are really impractical in player vs. player matches?

 

[SFA Smiley]

I practice on level 3s. It's like fighting a dummy but they act random enough to make it a little better than juggling a complete sandbag. And I don't use Gdubs on CPUs because it's pointless there's like nothing for me to gain from doing that except getting **** judgement strings that I can never show anyone because it's on a CPU (lol)

Wifi is better. I am a big advocate of using Wifi as a training tool. I don't wifi much but i used to back in 08 and 09. It sucks but it teaches habits that aren't as detrimental to gameplay as fighting computers. Mainly rolling. That's a terribly difficult habit to break and it took me FOREVER to break that one way back when.

 

[-LzR-]

Playing against CPU doesn't do **** unless you are practicing like ICs or MK. They just suck and you can't learn ****. If trying to learn some advanced chaingrabs or techs, it's better to not have the CPU at all to interrupt you.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I think it's a playstyle thing. M2K practices against CPUs

I don't take CPU practice seriously I just practice buffering and stuff

 

[-LzR-]

M2K plays MK who is more about technical ability than most characters so it actually helps. In a case like GW it's a huge waste of your time you could use to do something awesome.

 

[Sar]

The what other ways are there to practice if you don't have someone to play against regularly?

 

[SFA Smiley]

M2K plays MK who is more about technical ability than most characters so it actually helps. In a case like GW it's a huge waste of your time you could use to do something awesome.

Yeah I do the same, only MK and Peach, Gdubs is pretty pointless.

@sar: Wifi, possible?