Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[Gardex]

I actually use Falcon, and I consider myself a pretty decent one as well.

G&W is one of my most dreaded matchups.
It's so stupid.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Well... have you played a good jiggs? She nothing to scoff at either lol. Shes basically a bad version of wario and pound is ****ing dumb lol

 

[-LzR-]

Pound is bad.

 

[Shadow the Past]

I feel like Falcon is under represented (at least in my area), which might influence his position on the next tier list.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Well i dunno pound doesnt seem bad to me but i dont really understand jiggs i guess. Still though falcon and jiggs are both bad. Zelda is the worst imo.

But i dont play low tiers so i prefer not to talk about ghings i dont understand.

 

[Damittom]

For Jiggs ive played friendlies with soul pch.
Which isn't really great but better than most people's experiences.

For Falcon I have a large amount of experience with both Lordy's and Ally's Falcons. Seeing as I play Lordy on regular basis and play Ally every couple of months.

So, In my opinion If you guys are saying the matchup is jiggs level easy you probably have not played Falcon's that know the matchup on a higher level of play.

Im not saying its a bad matchup its somthing like +2 for us but its not like Jiggs or Ganon easy

 

[SFA Smiley]

Ganon is harder than Falcon.

They both get ***** for the same reason but ganon kos us at like 40 and has more reliable setups

 

[Damittom]

I disagree Ganon's options are slower and unless your getting hardcore read you shouldn't be hit with moves that can kill you at 40. Also Falcon actually has a jab, has aerials, and can recover.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I disagree Ganon's options are slower and unless your getting hardcore read you shouldn't be hit with moves that can kill you at 40. Also Falcon actually has a jab, has aerials, and can recover.

That's what Ganon mains do though, read.

And they only really need to make one hard read to actually do something. Ganon's Aerials except nair are all useful against our character. Dair is more useful than falcons and is a reliable damage racker, Fair sucks but has good range, His uair is faster than our key and will hit us before key comes out, and bair is basically the same but stronger. Ganon can't recover that's a large reason why we "****" him but Ganon is well suited to deal with us unless we are being gay as hell (like you should be) or playing really basic, but the same stuff we do to beat falcon we're gonna do to ganon but he's gonna make our stocks last shorter.

The matchup is pretty similar on offense, it starts getting bad when you get choked though

 

[Alphicans]

Don't underestimate the power of a good c.falcon dsmash read. It's so strong.

 

[Damittom]

So basically what you're saying is ganon has to start everything out of a read but for some reason Falcon can't.

As Alph said Falcon has hard read options too, not only in his dsmash, but also fsmash.

Falcon's Upair is just as good as Ganon's and he can actually upair us from a grab release and begin to string, Falcon's Bair is just as good as Ganon's and will kill you almost anytime Ganon's will. And if your getting hit by Dair please start using upb.

Falcon's u-tilt can clank with our fsmash and dtilt. Falcon's Fair is wayyyyy better than Ganon's. Falcon also has a usable frame advantage out of throws.

For real any time your getting hit hard by Ganon not only should you not be, but Falcon also has the opportunity to hit just as hard. However, Falcon actually has options (although not good options) from a neutral position unlike Ganon.

The only thing that Ganon has is his Side B tech chases, which you should not get hit by Side B and if you do, guess what, you can still avoid getting punished.

 

[Alphicans]

gr to uair is pretty huge

 

[SFA Smiley]

Didn't know Falcon had a GR on us. Ok well you seem to know what you're talking about, I'll take your word for it. I still personally find Ganon scarier because i'm always on guard playing him. Fox and Ganon are two characters i'm particularly weary of. I think i'm worse against Ganon then falcon though, not that I ever lose to anyone's ganon. Kira's low tier main is ganon and it's pretty good and i've never lost a set to it but i'm still scared of ganon much more than any falcon. Might be a personal thing.

I'm in Jersey =)

But everyone is split up so nothing has really happened yet. Just practicing with my teammate and playing friendlies with with Ripple.

It's just me and Kira now.

 

[Sar]

So this might seem like an overly simplistic question, but what are our main approach options? Dair and Bair work on noobs, but I'm failing to think of any hard-to-punish reliable mixups.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Dair and bair don't just work on noobs, they work on good players you just have to mix it up really hard.

M2K told me he thinks dair is the most difficult to avoid move in the game (lolno) BUT it actually can be pretty difficult on a low shield because the landing hit shieldpokes so even if you see it you'll get hit. Bair is a good approach option on many character when their shields are low as well. I used to never use bair because I always got punished but people here told me to use it more and I have and it's really only helped. You will often get punished but spaced correctly and mixing up the timing by fast falling it on shield and retreating on hit make it pretty annoying to deal with i've realized.

depending on how you know the player or character too, you can running powershield if they character has a predictable option for when you run up (this weekend I double powershielded an ftilt and grabbed a snake I was playing. You have to feel really confident to do it though. And what I learned from neko (the chilean gdubs) this weekend is shorthop fair is a pretty decent mixup too. It seems like we'll get punished a lot but unless you are consistently getting ****ed up for doing things you should just keep on doing it til it works. Not saying it will win you tourneys but I'm starting to see that's how gdubs works. He takes a lot of patience and you can't get discouraged from using the same move twice or even 3 times. Maybe 4 times though lol You don't wanna be predictable but at the same time GW doesn't really have that much going for him as far as approaching goes so sometimes if it doesn't work the first time... just try it again lol.

Some of the other gdubs may disagree though, I generally have pretty weird opinions on what works or not.

Also guys i tried to play a good falcon and DLA this weekend to compare but i never got a chance to play DLA. However I did face the falcon main (JT from Ohio) I still think Ganon is harder. JT did some pretty sweet stuff though.

 

[Sar]

This is more of a smash theory-in-general question, but what tend to be the best times to grab?

Or maybe grab setups? For some reason i find bair-dash grab at lower %s works a lot, as long as the person doesn't expect it.

 

[-LzR-]

You grab whenever they try to block your attacks. This of course is only in theory, but that's how it usually works. Grabs in general are awesome as you have the opponent under your control and you will usually be able to refresh 2 moves with a combination of pummel + throw. Especially with out ability to take a stock with any grab if we make amazing reads.
And remember that a random dashgrab is one of the most unsafe things you can do universally. Only do it if you have a good read or you have it guaranteed, from example a whiffed or blocked move with enough lag.

 

[SFA Smiley]

This is more of a smash theory-in-general question, but what tend to be the best times to grab?

Or maybe grab setups? For some reason i find bair-dash grab at lower %s works a lot, as long as the person doesn't expect it.

When the opponent is scared. Scared opponents (depending on their playstyle) may block more. That's when you start pushing for more grabs because they'll sit in their shield more when you have a momentum advantage.

There's the classic run and jump at them backwards and then turn around grab but it'll have to be a really hard mix-up or the opponent will have to really scared because otherwise they'll react to it.

I know I know some decent set-ups but my brain isn't working at the moment

 

[Gardex]

Autocanceled nair > grab
Landing hitbox of dair at low % > skid canceled shield grab
First hit of uair(lol) > grab
Jab > grab

Or just simply run up, shield, grab. I prefer that one B))))

 

[Flame Hyenard]

When I grab, I always mix up like this : Grab -> Dthrow -> Jab -> Grab

or sometimes : Grab -> Dthrow -> Dtilt

Some other times after Dthrow I just spam the Jab for more damages. Of course I adapt if my opponent ends up behind me after the Dthrow.

 

[Sar]

How "Worth it" is up-B as a juggling/aerial tool? Against some characters i feel like it's not actually a good option. For example, it can be pretty easy to hit an aerial snake with it, but it puts him horizontal to us, only does like 6 damage, and essentially lets him get back to the ground.

 

[Shadow the Past]

I noticed it kind of "ends" your juggle against an opponent, as it knocks them horizontal to you and usually lets them land. It especially sucks when they airdodge and you miss them entirely.

I usually only use it if they're close to the edge and it can be used to knock them offstage. Otherwise mixing up uairs and nairs is a better option.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Its boss vertical to the ledge. Otherwise continuing the jiggle is generally better. If i get sick or bored or annoyed of reading them in the air ill do it over the stage but thats a personal thing: im lazy

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

In a lot of situations it's the only option for finishing the juggle imo. After you've hit them with nairs and exhausted your jumps, why not upb them? They have so much hitstun from it it's ridiculous, and it puts you in perfect position to just fair them. For Lucario I find it to be the only possible follow up to anything but a rising nair. Trying to do anything else will just get you a dair to the face.

 

[Gardex]

It can also kill

 

[-LzR-]

The trajectory is quite awesome. I use it mainly as a combo finisher. When people expect it they might start airdodging so you can get even more nairs in.

 

[Damittom]

It's also good against characters that we have a difficult time juggling or character's that can approach us from the air such as Marth, Lucario, or Wario.

 

[Sar]

It's also good against characters that we have a difficult time juggling or character's that can approach us from the air such as Marth, Lucario, or Wario.

I thought using up-B against Wario was generally a bad idea? doesn't his clap trade with dair, and it does more knockback and damage.

 

[Damittom]

up-b stuffs all of his approaches, just don't use it until he commits and you shouldn't be punished for it.

 

[-LzR-]

It's very hard for him to trade with dair using clap. And no one is forcing you to dair. GWs need to learn that.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I disagree with the first part but agree with the second.

 

[-LzR-]

Well I personally have never really traded with clap. I've always solidly beaten it. It requires very good spacing from Wario to do that.

 

[SFA Smiley]

I dunno. The wario I play knows Gdubs super well because all his friends and perm partners have been Gdubs and it's one of his most familiar characters and he makes it look fairly easy so I just assumed it must not be that hard to trade with.

I suck against that character though, he forced me to play defensively and i'm not the best defensive player. I'm getting better at it though, considering I play Brawl.

 

[Alphicans]

I thought using up-B against Wario was generally a bad idea? doesn't his clap trade with dair, and it does more knockback and damage.

UpB ***** wario hard

It's very hard for him to trade with dair using clap. And no one is forcing you to dair. GWs need to learn that.

yup

I disagree with the first part but agree with the second.

The spacing for clap is pretty specific, so the dair usually has to be obvious.

 

[-LzR-]

The spacing for clap is pretty specific, so the dair usually has to be obvious.

Well I guess you're screwed. 100% of all dairs are always obvious

 

[Sar]

Ahh ok, thanks for that alph. I have like 0 matchup experience against wario and i felt like I read that somewhere a while ago but i guess not.

 

[Sar]

Why, sometimes, when I go for the dash attack edge spike, does it shoot my opponent up instead of spiking them? I'm talking stages like battlefield/smashville/FD ofc

 

[Flame Hyenard]

Maybe you're hitting your opponent with a different hitbox ? I don't know if Dash Attack has different hitboxes though.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

It could be a weird DI on their part, or SDI could do it as well.

 

[Sar]

idk. Like here's an example from one of alph's sets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOn2MKe8JPk&t=954

And i know it should work if the opponent is hanging on the ledge (and in this video he isn't), but shouldn't it also work if your opponent is just approaching the ledge? I'm 99% sure I've seen the stage spike when the opponent isn't hanging on the ledge yet.