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[SFA Smiley]

When all of our moves basically make spotdodging useless? I would shield instead since we can't do much against shields from the air.

Yeah that.

 

[Alphicans]

When all of our moves basically make spotdodging useless? I would shield instead since we can't do much against shields from the air.

Again this depends on how low his shield is.

 

[Gardex]

We can sit here and imagine all situations, but truth is, it happens a lot.(Have you never gotten a Snake to spotdodge before? Those guys love to do that stuff)

I've done it to top European Snakes. It's pretty damn rewarding.

BTW, spotdodging a G&W fair would be better than shielding it, just as it is against all other single-hit moves(as Snake. MK, Marth and the likes are a different story).

 

[LinkinHand]

I never tried it but it's worth it unless you're at kill % cause then you'll eat an utilt. Anyway also we can erase his dsmash with our bucket remember that and it's pretty safe in addition. pushing the nades in the air is a lot of fun, but one of our Snake's (Tay) will let the nade fall down by pulling out another nade. he used that against me, when i camped the edge and tried to push away all of his nades. And of course you can erase their d smash with the uair, when you're under it

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@LinkinHand: The lag on the bucket takes forever. Just dash over to the thing and powershield it. If on a platform, fine.

@Gardex: I would disagree about spot dodge against a Fair. Fair lasts way too ****ing long and would outlast the spot dodge most of the time. Its better to shield the hit, then punish G&W in the infinite about of lag he has on that move. Its a very bad move to use when low to the ground where Snake can punish with his 4 frame Ftilt or 6 frame dash attack. Its a different matter if G&W is rising in the air when he uses Fair.

But, my impression of Snake vs G&W is that G&W doesn't want to be in the air a lot above Snake as Snake can maneuver around him and his aerials. Reposition himself near G&Ws landing lag and attack. Or, position himself so that if G&W uses an attack, Snake can retaliate. I think G&W is a lot more dangerous on the ground where he is holding stage position rather than giving it up by going to the ledge or being in the air a ton. Then again, I seem to only ever play G&Ws which prefer to take to the sky or stay near the ledge.

 

[mars16]

So basicly be unpredictable (like all match ups) Get Snake in the air, Uiar is good I take it.

Trying to attack him on the ground With Fair, would be a bad Idea because of the lag, and the frame advantage of Snakes Utilt and/or Ftilt. Or if he spotdodges it, with a 50% chance of the fair hitting late, if it does not hit my cause ah ftilt or utilt, if the late does not hit.

Bair is good in this match if you cancel it out with a fast fall to nock snake in the air, It would be better to Bair fast fall because doing a full hope Bair, and the snake sheilding it would cause for a......ftilt....

...Fish bow is out ranged by his Utilt....


Nades stops grab

He defeats us on the ground

We kinda win in the air.
_____

Thanks I got alot out of this!!

 

[Gardex]

You never approach a standing Snake with a nair. You're asking to get tilted.
If he's occupied with something, then it's a different story.

We don't kinda win in the air. We win so hard in the air it's not even funny. He's the only character I actually spike as G&W B)

Nades don't stop grabs, nades stop everything else(which is why you should try to go for grabs more, nades shut down G&W otherwise).
But Gardex, trying to grab Snake as G&W is scary!
Indeed it is! Luckily players are human, and they are bound to give you some kind of opening sooner or later. It's a game of cat and mouse. Trick that mofo

 

[mars16]

Ok!!!!

Must say tho I do like spiking with Big key its so Epic!!

 

[Damittom]

real talk though upair is the most underrated move in the game

 

[SFA Smiley]

real talk though upair is the most underrated move in the game

This x50

mother****ers always gimme funny looks when I say our Uair is better than MKs

I think we have the best Uair in the game.

 

[mars16]

Has any one ever took a stock by blowing there opponont over the upper blast line with Uiar? I can never do it..

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yeah, there's rules to it though, I think they have to be in certain hitstun or something.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

I took a stock off a kirby. All he did was jump near he blast line.

 

[Gardex]

You can go beyond the blastzone upwards, but if any kind of hitbox or windbox touches you, you die.

 

[-LzR-]

Killing someone with uairs windbox is extremely unreliable though. They will only be sent that high if they double jump when the 2nd winbox appears or if they are like Wario who farts. I don't think our uair is better thank MKs, his is ridiculous. He can just uair twice and if the opponent isn't hit they can just pick a move to hit the opponent for free. Who the hell designed that move?

 

[SFA Smiley]

Killing someone with uairs windbox is extremely unreliable though. They will only be sent that high if they double jump when the 2nd winbox appears or if they are like Wario who farts. I don't think our uair is better thank MKs, his is ridiculous. He can just uair twice and if the opponent isn't hit they can just pick a move to hit the opponent for free. Who the hell designed that move?

I think Gdubs's barely edges out MK's for it's huge easy to land hitbox that refreshes already ridiculously powerful moves for free, as well as it's use in teams, and frustrating opponents.

MK's Uair is amazing and I still think our's is better. But like I've said before I have weird opinions that not many people will agree with.

 

[-LzR-]

Sure our uair is amazing, but it isn't broken or anything.

 

[Gardex]

I wouldn't call MK's uair broken either.

His up b is what keeps him from having bad MUs, imo

 

[-LzR-]

Yes, his upB is the the last piece of the puzzle that adds up to him being too good. On the ground it's a dragon punch that is very hard to punish and you can mixups even on shield and hit or whiff (wtf), it's moderately strong too. On the air though, it covers everything except and airdodge, which gets glideattacked or something else because he can just cancel it, it kills you at 60% offstage even with good DI and if you challenge it you trade hits, die at 60% and he doesn't care.
But his uair though. Just do it a couple times when your opponent is somewhere above you. There is nothing to lose, if they don't get hit, they just frametrapped themselves for something worse, like a nair. I mean they don't even need to read ****, just uair -> if it doesn't hit -> stuff.

 

[Alphicans]

But GaW's dair will **** uair.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

You can go beyond the blastzone upwards, but if any kind of hitbox or windbox touches you, you die.

I either this changed in Brawl, or its still there. But the luigi ladder is possible because you knock a luigi out of hitstun, but its not enough kill them off the blastzone on the top. So, its something else that cause you to get KO'd.

real talk though upair is the most underrated move in the game

I still don't get what makes Uair any good. The only times I ever see it useful over attacking someone in lag is by pushing away characters like Snake in recovery.

But GaW's dair will **** uair.

Keyblade

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Luigi ladder kills one of them.

 

[-LzR-]

I still don't get what makes Uair any good. The only times I ever see it useful over attacking someone in lag is by pushing away characters like Snake in recovery.

It has probably the single biggest hitbox in the game. It resets the juggle situation for free while refreshing your moves, especially important ones being dair and fair. The 2nd hit is also pretty strong if you manage to hit with it.
It can also mess up opponents recoveries making them go high in the air while helpless, setting them up for a free kill.
What's there not to love about this move?

 

[Gardex]

Fun fact: Your opponents can attack while being blown by your uair. This will also refresh THEIR moves.

 

[-LzR-]

Huh? Attack the windbow? That shouldn't be possible...

 

[Gardex]

I mean attacking the windbox will refresh their movesets as well, so it can also benefit them.

 

[Alphicans]

Is it confirmed that attacking the windbox refreshes moves?

 

[Gardex]

That's what I've been reading, at least. I can't confirm 100%

 

[-LzR-]

I can't believe that unless someone tests it out. It just doesn't make sense really as there is no sense as clashing hitboxes don't stale moves.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Mind=blown. Although i'm not so quick to accept that as fact either.

Will be crazy if true though, never even considered something like that.

 

[Shadow the Past]

I'll test this out with my roommate really quick. I'll tell you what we see.

Alright so a stale U-air from Meta Knight does 3% damage, sometimes 2% under some pattern I'm too lazy to check, while a fresh one does 6%.

After u-airing the **** out of MK and having him spam moves besides u-air, it still does only 2-3%. Having MK use other moves on me does refresh it back up to doing 6%

So, U-air does NOT refresh your opponents moves.

 

[Gardex]

Was he airborne, or did he stand on the ground and do stuff like smashes?

 

[-LzR-]

Don't test this with MK. He is an exception as his aerials are transcedent or however it's spelled. It means they don't interact with hitboxes, which is exactly what our uair is. This proves nothing. Try it with Dedede bair for example.

 

[Metmetm3t]

uair doesn't refresh the opponents moves. The moves would have to clank for that to be the truth.

Except Olimar's dair, which does clank with uair; so it might be the one exception.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't think clanking has any effect on the move. It just cancels the hitbox, like a shield, which doesn't stale the move.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Aren't all aerials transcendent?

 

[Alphicans]

They certainly are not.

 

[Gardex]

Oh man, transcended G&W aerials

 

[-LzR-]

Actually being transcended is only a curse for an aerial. I can't think of anything positive they would provide.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

Well they all collide with eachother, and they collide with grounded moves too. Have you ever clanked in the air?

EDIT: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=327828

A video in there shows the hitboxes clashing. But it isn't mentioned in the thread.