Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[Shadow the Past]

Dsmash is better to use when you're both grounded, or if the opponent is landing far away and you want to catch them off guard with the sweet spot. I use usmash when the opponent is landing on top of me, either when they're trying to airdodge land or just jump over me in general.

 

[-LzR-]

Usmash problem is that it's only really useful to catch landings against characters with ****ty landing options such as Snake or DK. Most of the time it's just better to go for the nair or grab. Hitting people with Usmash is hard.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Who here is experienced with teaming with Snake as Game and Watch? Maybe the Europeans? Anyone who knows how the team works, can you possibly give me some advice/possible gimmicks for the team? I did this team a while ago for a few events with great results but I was the Snake. Need to know a bit more about what I'm supposed to do as the Game and Watch. Thanks in advance folks.

- TC

 

[SFA Smiley]

Razer and Zac were one of the best teams of the pre 2010 era. Look at some of their vids.

It's outdated but they were playing on a doubles level way above most of the other teams at that time.

 

[Jr555]

I've always avoided Wifi like the plague, mostly because I don't enjoy lag, but lately I've been considering giving it a second change. My question to you guys is, since GaW is a relativelly laggy character, is he someone I can use in Wifi to some success, and do any of you have any tips for learning how to play on wifi or how to play GaW more specifically on Wifi?

 

[Alphicans]

Penta and I have had success with wifi GaW. I've more or less stopped doing serious wifi, but penta still tears it up on ladder. GaW can do work, but imo he's not the best on wifi DESPITE WHAT EVERYONE WILL TELL YOU >_>

 

[PentaSalia]

@jr555
Your spacing on wifi is changed due to the delay which makes approaching safely more difficult. A lot of characters rely on spacing but G&W gets punished pretty hard if he makes even one mistake so it's even more frustrating lol. That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Not much advice i can give you, experiment and figure these things out.One benefit i got from wifi is that it forced me to figure out alternatives because I could not play the way I was used to. At the same time you can develop bad habits because of this so try to be aware of what works and what shouldn't work.

An obvious example of this would be smash spamming.

 

[Gardex]

Don't believe his lies


smash spam is the most effective of strats

 

[PentaSalia]

 

[SFA Smiley]

Yeah everyone tells me GW is crazy good online and while I think he's better, IMO he's not really as great on wifi as people will tel you, they're just salty they run into dsmashes

Alternatively what some people do is pick up wifi exclusive characters. the plus side is that it'll give you another character to use offline.

snakes pretty freaking stupid on wifi

 

[Jr555]

Yeah thanks for mentioning that Smiley, I've heard of several people picking up Snake for wifi, and I'm actually now a bit scared of playing GW in both settings, on the off chance it slows down my GW play or something.

 

[SFA Smiley]

Honestly I won't claim it was the wifi that did it but my offline play is faster now that I do play wifi.

 

[Gardex]

Is anybody here able to do the lagless ledgejump fair onto stage?
The only G&W I've ever seen do it is Vex.

I've been trying to learn how to do it, but the only way I don't get the fair landing lag is when I do the claw-method(which is tiresome).
Is there a trick that makes this easier or something?
It's a mighty useful trick, and makes whiffed fairs safer.(Not to mention sourspot fairs. I know somebody over here who positioned himself within my fair's reach, only to get intentionall sourspotted so that he could just dsmash me right out of it)

 

[-LzR-]

I've also tried to practice that but it's very hard to get consistently for some reason. I heard it's something like 2 frames to get it right.

 

[Jr555]

Is anybody here able to do the lagless ledgejump fair onto stage?
The only G&W I've ever seen do it is Vex.

I've been trying to learn how to do it, but the only way I don't get the fair landing lag is when I do the claw-method(which is tiresome).
Is there a trick that makes this easier or something?
It's a mighty useful trick, and makes whiffed fairs safer.(Not to mention sourspot fairs. I know somebody over here who positioned himself within my fair's reach, only to get intentionall sourspotted so that he could just dsmash me right out of it)

Can you guys link a vid of this? I've never seen it before and was unaware of it as a technique.

 

[Gardex]

I don't know about any videos showcasing it specifically. All I know is that I've seen Vex do it in some matches.

Basically, it's simply tapping away from the ledge(to let go), then jump fair towards the stage.

But timing is incredibly strict if you don't want to get any landing lag. If done successfully, you'll shoot towards the stage with your amazing **** and end the move just in time for the landing(Might even work as a SJR, haven't tested)

 

[Jr555]

I don't know about any videos showcasing it specifically. All I know is that I've seen Vex do it in some matches.

Basically, it's simply tapping away from the ledge(to let go), then jump fair towards the stage.

But timing is incredibly strict if you don't want to get any landing lag. If done successfully, you'll shoot towards the stage with your amazing **** and end the move just in time for the landing(Might even work as a SJR, haven't tested)

Ok no worries on the replay. But I do have some questions so I can practice it, do you throw it out so that if you're hitting someone who's grounded it'll pretty much always be a sourspot (i.e. do you throw out the move really early in the jump)? And I'm guessing since you're trying to get through all the lag, you don't fast fall ?

 

[Gardex]

No fastfall, indeed.

However, if you manage to go back>forward fast enough on your controlstick, then you should be above the stage very quickly. That means that hitting with the sweetspot is very possible. But if you whiff, you can actually try going for that sourspot hit afterwards, and still be safe because of no landing lag. With landing lag, the sourspot is unsafe, even on hit.

 

[Jr555]

No fastfall, indeed.

However, if you manage to go back>forward fast enough on your controlstick, then you should be above the stage very quickly. That means that hitting with the sweetspot is very possible. But if you whiff, you can actually try going for that sourspot hit afterwards, and still be safe because of no landing lag. With landing lag, the sourspot is unsafe, even on hit.

Yeah Alphicans was telling me to learn how to fair and go back to the ledge, since I was doing the onstage fair with landing lag. Having the mixup and being able to pull of both would be excellent though, especially right now where the majority of what I need to focus on is growing with the match. Almost every match I played recently with a replay, shows me doing pretty excellent on the first stock or first match, and then I just hit a mental block on how to keep mixing it up intelligently.

Exhibit A (Most recent match): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDSZ6U7J_dw

 

[Sar]

That video reminded me, is it actually worth it to bucket break when being hit up? I thought I read somewhere that it isn't any better than a traditional momentum cancel, and that seems to be right from my experience. I think somebody was testing the % that falco's usmash killed all characters at and they said that with/without bucket break was the same.

 

[Jr555]

That video reminded me, is it actually worth it to bucket break when being hit up? I thought I read somewhere that it isn't any better than a traditional momentum cancel, and that seems to be right from my experience. I think somebody was testing the % that falco's usmash killed all characters at and they said that with/without bucket break was the same.

It doesn't help survive unless you DI perfectly into the corner, but I like to use it when I'm off screen anyways, just to give me a minute to see what the other player is doing, sort of like peach's float in melee. Sometimes people have habits regarding how they approach game and watch when his bucket is out (I have a lot of matches against a Pit main from here and he usually tries to bait bucket, and with often approach in the air if he sees the bucket, so if he isn't approaching when I pull out the bucket it says something about what he's thinking in the match). I try to avoid vertical KO moves at all costs usually anyways, so even though I do use it as a tactic, there are times when it's habit.

 

[Sar]

What's the best way to cover your opponents' landings? SH nair usually works for a while for me, but eventually my opponents seem to catch on and airdodge through. After that I have trouble finding mixups. I try charged smash attacks but a lot of the time they airdodge through and then shield the smash. Am I doing something wrong? Are there other ways to punish an opponent who is reading SH nair?

 

[Gardex]

You can use uair to stall their descent and then punish the airdodge with w/e you feel like.

In theory you should be able to smash them as they're landing because they'll have a couple of frames of downtime before the shield gets up, but the timing is incredibly strict.
Mix it up with grab, because you know they'll be grabbing.

I also personally go for dair if they airdodge, because the long lasting hitbox will hit them sooner or later, but uair and sometimes grab are your go-to options to make opponents hate landing.

 

[Triforce Of Chozo]

I used to go for the lagless fair from the ledge but it was really inconsistent because of how small the frame window is and I would always mess it up in crucial situations so I just generally use nair because it is worlds easier and almost always safer, even if it is very predictable. Also I kept having the fair get beaten out by Falco fsmash and Meta Knight anything.

 

[AlanHaTe]

Hello G&Ws, I was wondering if I could get some input on the MK vs G&W MU, because I'm pretty bad at it... there are like no G&Ws near to me, and I only play them in tourney like once every 4 or 6 months, and they generally beat me badly ._. I already know GSL beats like everything, but I have noticed that many times even on hit I can be Uair'd and well, after that comes a retarde heavy punish :/

I couldn't find either a somewhat updated MU thread where I could at least read something that could help me.

Hope to get some advice on this, thanks

 

[-LzR-]

The MU is actually very hard. When people stop doing dumb **** that gets then uair'd to a free move you realize it's impossible to get in without taking heavy risks while he is generally safe.
I would say the MU is something like -2. It's beatable once you know how to play it. Don't jump in blindly for no reason. There is no spacing move for this MU. You wait for MK to move and counter whatever he throws at you. In the ground you lose dashgrab badly. Everything you do is quite free to dashgrab and whatever isn't is not a threat to MK.

 

[Sar]

The MU is actually very hard. When people stop doing dumb **** that gets then uair'd to a free move you realize it's impossible to get in without taking heavy risks while he is generally safe.
I would say the MU is something like -2. It's beatable once you know how to play it. Don't jump in blindly for no reason. There is no spacing move for this MU. You wait for MK to move and counter whatever he throws at you. In the ground you lose dashgrab badly. Everything you do is quite free to dashgrab and whatever isn't is not a threat to MK.

I think he's asking for advice from the MK perspective. To which I reply: you play Metagay, you don't need any help.

 

[MEOW1337KITTEH]

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/game-and-watch-matchup-export-meta-knight.321161/
This thread is pretty recent for us. We haven't found too much to add to the matchup to be honest, though there are probably some more high level GnW matches that have occurred since then.

Basically the only advantage GnW has in this mu is his superior air mobility and strong juggling capability because of it (and our beautiful nair/uar) To win, you have to realize where your moves have superior range over GnW's (ex. You know that your Uair loses to our nair unless you can dodge and use your wider hitbox, so instead of coming straight up, come up while moving to the side, but still getting in range to uair.

 

[Sar]

You can use uair to stall their descent and then punish the airdodge with w/e you feel like.

Is this really true? I only find uair to be useful for punishing a character who's trying to fastfall aerial/fastfall airdodge through you.
Maybe I'm doing uair wrong? But usually if the opponent is trying to airdodge to the side, or is just doing a regular airdodge the uair pushes them to a location where I can't hit them with other aerials (or maybe just upB). I think sometimes I fullhop uair, and I might even be doing midair jump > uair. Would it make sense for those to be less successful? Should I ONLY be doing SH uair?
Also, by "anything" are we only talking aerials? Or is common/possible to stall them with uair close enough to the ground to hit with smash attacks/dtilt?

 

[SFA Smiley]

I use both characters, guy so I may be able to give some insight when I get off work

 

[SFA Smiley]

Tilts though

Nvm my phone is being annoying right now so I don't wanna make a long post.

What part of the matchup did you find so difficult. Its hard for mk if you don't know it.

Priority is don't get hit and don't get grabbed. Use tilts and superior ground game to get a sizeable lead then force him to to take all the risks. Up b OOS shuts down everything, and use tilts so you don't get grabbed. Don't use ftilt3 on shield because you'll get grabbed and probably die.

I'd give you a full rundown if my comp worked

 

[Gardex]

Is this really true? I only find uair to be useful for punishing a character who's trying to fastfall aerial/fastfall airdodge through you.
Maybe I'm doing uair wrong? But usually if the opponent is trying to airdodge to the side, or is just doing a regular airdodge the uair pushes them to a location where I can't hit them with other aerials (or maybe just upB). I think sometimes I fullhop uair, and I might even be doing midair jump > uair. Would it make sense for those to be less successful? Should I ONLY be doing SH uair?
Also, by "anything" are we only talking aerials? Or is common/possible to stall them with uair close enough to the ground to hit with smash attacks/dtilt?

A midair-jump uair doesn't leave you with a lot to hit them. Unless they are in perfect falling conditions and fastfalling, all you can get out of it is an up b.

First-jump uair though, that's where the money is. When people airdodge, they don't affected by the uair windbox, and will just fall while we can plot our next move. Our uair is fast enough that we'll have time to jump in with nair, bair, fair, another uair, up b and even judgement and dair in some cases.

Sometimes they will recover from the airdodge quickly enough to either be able to dodge our attack or get blown up in the air again by the 2nd uair windbox. In that case, reset the situation with more uairs and condition them to airdodge if they want to get down(or anticipate their landing option and go for a smash).

Of course, nothing is ever as easy as theory makes it sound, but it IS one of my main damagerackers vs characters with slow aerial mobility like MK and Snake.

My flowchart vs MK, Snake, Falco and the likes:
Game starts
I get hit a bunch of times
Get one hit in to launch them in the air
Make it even again
Repeat

 

[Atlas Usagi]

i use that strategy very often, i usually go for the smash tho.

 

[Atlas Usagi]

I am having trouble dealing with marth, meta, and peach. How do I approach and what moves are best aganist them?

 

[PEPESPAIN]

It is known that G&W Meteor smash only works on the first frames..... but can anyone tell me what happend here?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVPDIolMe7o

 

[Gardex]

You stage spiked him, most likely

 

[PEPESPAIN]

Ok!!!! Thanks!!!

 

[Custom]

So Omegablackmage's guide has the bucket highest percent at 60, but I got it at 62% with pikachu's down b. Also would this be the most powerful move at least by % in SSBB?

 

[Gardex]

Yup, both in knockback and damage. It's prett much the best move in the game when filled up

 

[-LzR-]

The move is completely unmatched when the bucket is full.