Ask a Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer Thread

[smashkng]

What's stronger? Up smash or tipper dsmash? Do someone know how often in percent Judge becomes 9?

 

[Publix]

What's stronger? Up smash or tipper dsmash? Do someone know how often in percent Judge becomes 9?

i'ld say upsmash,( its the 3rd strongest usmash in the game), but the dsmash has more range.

as for the the percent of when Judgment comes out and all of that debate; i just finished a statistics class so i'm like hella pro at doing that ****. i'll have data, and numbers and percents and all that. i'm gunna do the same for chef, i starting to use the hell outta chef. last final is wednesday so i'll do it soon after that.

My questions: I think that it would be best to the do 100 or 200 trials in regular brawl mode (not training mode, just because we won't be in a tourny match in training mode.)

Any suggestions to get the most accurate Data?

 

[smashkng]

i'ld say upsmash,( its the 3rd strongest usmash in the game), but the dsmash has more range.

as for the the percent of when Judgment comes out and all of that debate; i just finished a statistics class so i'm like hella pro at doing that ****. i'll have data, and numbers and percents and all that. i'm gunna do the same for chef, i starting to use the hell outta chef. last final is wednesday so i'll do it soon after that.

My questions: I think that it would be best to the do 100 or 200 trials in regular brawl mode (not training mode, just because we won't be in a tourny match in training mode.)

Any suggestions to get the most accurate Data?

Where can I see the stats of top knockback smash attacks? I want to know about that.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Where can I see the stats of top knockback smash attacks? I want to know about that.

As of now, that's a do it yourself. F-Smash has good knock-back, you can start from there.

 

[UTDZac]

http://www.fileshaker.com/rp0904271802


Proof. I win.

I need to know 3 things:
What music was playing during the replay? (Default FD music)
What stage was this on? (FD)
Can you watch this replay without going through the homebrew channel? (Yes)

Get back to me and I'll tell you what I have. I can watch replays frame-by-frame with a new code of mine.

EDIT: I got it working. Here's what happened:

The first side-B you did was a 9.
The second side-B was interrupted by an attack. No number was shown, but this still counts as using Side-B.
The third side-B was you falling off the end, it was a 6.
The fourth side-B was another 9.

I had this happen to me here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkZOmQLQbk8
Watch the light-blue G&W. It's a lot harder to tell that I'm using Side-B twice in-between the throws.

 

[Zerosyko]

Wow, so much fail. I can't believe I didn't notice that. Sorry, guys :/

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Just curious.

Anybody else B-Air with G&W's feet instead of the Turtle?

 

[napZzz]

does it actually have a hitbox down there? o_o

And whats the best option after using GnW's up+b? Should I always do a certain aerial? Float away? Or does it depend on the situation, this is something that always confuses me

 

[UTDZac]

Some UpB options I like to use:

* Buffer an aerial so it will auto-fastall. Usually I user nair.
* Just fall back down and airdodge.
* Use an aerial after the UpB finishes (make sure not to buffer). You'll fall down at your normal rate. Then jump after your aerial finish. This is a good mind game. Most people don't know that G&W can jump after his UpB.
* And on rare occasions, buffer a judgment. But that's just me =)

 

[¤Vivi Orunitia¤]

I have a question, how should a G&W fight in matches? Should he be aggressive, defensive, or something like that? >_>

 

[Gates]

Generally Game & Watch is the aggressor and the one who approaches, but that doesn't mean you should blindly rush in like an idiot. Knowing how to play safe and play a punishing game with Game & Watch is very important too.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

As your Turtle says, "Slow and steady, wins the race."

 

[BBQ°]

imo, G&W is a better defender than aggressor. He shuts down approaches so well and in many cases forces his opponent to approach because of his bucket.

downtilt is good for beating ground approaches
nair/bair/upb/fair is good for beating aerial approaches

against Snake and MK it's more of a mix of defending and aggressing(?), but more importantly to be realllllly patient to wait for openings.

 

[lou4222]

I have been a Game and Watch main for several months now and the main thing I have realized is that I need to sometimes play aggressive and sometimes play defensive in certain matchups. I regularly get to play against Quivo ( one of the best Toon Links around) and I have to be unbelievably aggressive here or I will just get pummeled with projectiles. It is important to be the aggressor with Turtles, Nair etc. I also always get to play against Alphazealot ( a very good Diddy) and I am defensive to the point where it is almost boring.

But as some of the other players said it is a fine mix. Play defensively until you find your openning. Once you attack attack hard and get off some combos. The more you play and the more matchup experience you gain, you will quickly understand which characters call for aggressive and defensive styles of play.

 

[UTDZac]

We need a list of characters that you should play aggressive against vs. those you should play defensive against. As well as ones where it doesn't matter.

 

[Gates]

We could probably integrate it into the matchup thread.

I've never actually tried playing the Diddy matchup defensively before. Maybe I should, I always have trouble trying to play it aggressively.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

We could probably integrate it into the matchup thread.

I've never actually tried playing the Diddy matchup defensively before. Maybe I should, I always have trouble trying to play it aggressively.

Diddy mains want you to play aggressive, it's easier to throw Bananas at you and set you up for Glide-Tossed Smashes

As for defensive match-ups....

Diddy

Marth

Snake 50/50

DDD 50/50

Wario

Falco

Donkey Kong?

Lucario?

Toon Link?

With the whole 50/50 thing, it can go either or. I personally love rushing down DDD, unless they know how to grab, rushing down Snake unless they know how to Shield Drop Grenades, And Falco unless they know how to Grab and Laser -> Smash you in any situation

The ?, are sometimes it's okay, sometimes, you have to play aggressive, at least IMO. I would explain, but I'm crazy sleepy

Everyone okay with that list of mine?

 

[Gates]

Your reasoning is flawed.

1. There are no Dededes who do not know how to grab.
2. There are no Snakes who do not know how to sheild drop grenades.
3. ...Actually, that's all I can think of lol.

 

[cutter]

I honestly don't know how you can play against DDD and not get grabbed.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Your reasoning is flawed.

1. There are no Dededes who do not know how to grab.
2. There are no Snakes who do not know how to sheild drop grenades.
3. ...Actually, that's all I can think of lol.

It was just a rough sketch, and I still can't sleep

But all joking aside, I personally fell like it could go 50/50. You just have to know when to play aggressive, and when to play defensive against said character.

 

[Gates]

Yeah, I can agree with that I guess.

 

[lou4222]

When I play Diddys I seriously sit on plats until they lose one of their bananas. When they try to throw another one I usually try t intercept it and throw it off the stage. If they have one banana out that is when you go aggressive. Otherwise you will get banana locked to oblivion

IMO other defensive matchups should be

Marth
ICs(for obvious reasons) until you split them up and then you absolute go crazy
Falco( Chain grab is 0-40) and its a good bucket, I enjoy baiting Falco lasers.
Snake 50-50
DK( if your not careful he kills you at like 30%
MK
Kirby 50 50( just dont get forward smashed)
Wario
Lucario 50 50

Agressive
Toon Link(otherwise projectiles destroy you)
DDD
Bowser(every move you have destroys him)
Olimar( Its good to pressure,especially when you kill some of those Pikman)
Ike

This list probably has some flaws and im sure people will disagree. I just think since we have the lightest character in the game we HAVE to play defensively a great amount of the time. Every percent we rack up means so much more to GW mains than heavies.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

When I play Diddys I seriously sit on plats until they lose one of their bananas. When they try to throw another one I usually try t intercept it and throw it off the stage. If they have one banana out that is when you go aggressive. Otherwise you will get banana locked to oblivion

IMO other defensive matchups should be

Marth
ICs(for obvious reasons) until you split them up and then you absolute go crazy
Falco( Chain grab is 0-40) and its a good bucket, I enjoy baiting Falco lasers.
Snake 50-50
DK( if your not careful he kills you at like 30%
MK
Kirby 50 50( just dont get forward smashed)
Wario
Lucario 50 50

Agressive
Toon Link(otherwise projectiles destroy you)
DDD
Bowser(every move you have destroys him)
Olimar( Its good to pressure,especially when you kill some of those Pikman)
Ike

This list probably has some flaws and im sure people will disagree. I just think since we have the lightest character in the game we HAVE to play defensively a great amount of the time. Every percent we rack up means so much more to GW mains than heavies.

I want to say Ike is a 50/50, solely because of Ike's Tilts, and how much prioty U-Smash has over D-Air. In other words, a heavier Marth. But then again, most Ike mains are idiots so you can rush them down.

Other than that, seems okay for now.

 

[Noa.]

We also need to come up with more definite definitions of playstyles.

A defensive playstyle to you may mean something completely different to me. Same with aggressive. It's important that we're all on the same page here. We should know what moves a playstyle mostly focuses on, how we use those moves and why we use those moves.

To me, these are the major playstyles:

Aggressive; this style is just basically approaching with bair and just ******. Apply the constant pressure until your opponent dies. This is a very easy style to play, IMO.

Defensive; only works on very few characters, and when you have the lead. You play using dtilt, shield and bacon. G&W's defensive game isn't that bad against some characters.

Patient; this is the style I use most. This mostly deal with jumping around the oponent and using parachute until your opoennt makes a mistake. When you get in, you **** them hard and combo them.

 

[UTDZac]

I think we need to start a new thread about "Aggressive vs. Defensive playstyles of G&W" that way we can move this discussion to somewhere else that G&W can actually read and learn about. I think this is a very important topic.

I'll make a thread in a second and edit a link in here when I'm done. Need to compile a good list of all this info first.

 

[Hylian]

Yeah.

I don't really know how I would classify my new style though. Zac and I play like...polar opposites haha.

I uh...just bait people a lot while staying close to them the whole match >_>.

 

[cutter]

I just play instinctively doing what I feel I should be doing in a given situation lol.

 

[Gates]

I just bair a lot.

 

[UTDZac]

Here's the topic for G&W Playstyle Discussion:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=232940

Let's get this thing built! I think it can really help a lot of people. So many people fall victim the natural aggressive nature of G&W that they lose some easy matchups. (Myself included)

 

[studly]

alright i have a question...
my friend is borrowing my wii so i have no way to test this currently...i saw hylian cancel his B-air ... is it just autocanceling or is there a specific tech

 

[UTDZac]

bair cancelling is an interesting AT for G&W.

To do it: you just use bair right before you land on the ground. This allows for the initial animation frames of the attack to come out. However you will land before the hitbox actually comes out. This technique can't hurt the opponent and doesn't slow down or speed up G&W's landing lag. It technically does nothing.

However, it turns out this is quite useful at tricking your opponents who try to punish you bair spams. You can bair cancel into fsmash, or grab and usually end up hitting your opponent he drops his shield to punish the landing lag from your attack.

EDIT: Here's a video of Hylian doing it effectively. Take note, I did: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j1ATOAoEdc

 

[studly]

ah thanks.... i saw it it several of his vids and was wondering

it seems like a very affective mindgame

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

I spam C-Stick, makes me win 92.6426789% of the time.

I coined a phrase on AiB called "Nipsies" which is a lot like Footsies in SF. It's a guide I made that's a couple months old, but I thought I should keep a reference to myself on how I should play "defensive" against said character.

Here's the link...
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=59929

 

[UTDZac]

Here's the link...
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=59929

Dang this looks really useful. I'm going to add some of it to the new thread if you don't mind.

 

[Motel Vacaville of the West]

Dang this looks really useful. I'm going to add some of it to the new thread if you don't mind.

Go right ahead, and fell free to add.

EDIT : I got the idea from this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0DZEbzdqpk&feature=related

 

[GRiP]

for G&W's bucket, what's the best way to stop or slow down lag time?

 

[1nconspikuous]

bair canceling looks interesting...

i saw hylian talking about it in the thread about his matches against kprime. i didn't, however, see a thread of it. afaik it is just landing ur bair before the turtle head comes out. (idk the specific frames though). it kinda feels like a waveland from melee -- unless i'm doing it wrong.

anyway, is there an 'optimal' way to bair cancel? i've been trying 2 SHFF it, but i don't think it works with a FF. i can only SH it.

oh the other thing is, i'm not sure what kinda state you're in when u cancel it (while you're sliding). i'm thinking it's a walk, which is why you can fsmash out of it, but i'm not sure because i'm having trouble dsmashing out of it quickly. are inputs available the frame that you land or is there some sort of landing lag associated with it? (which would obviously make it less useful)

EDIT: after a bair cancel you land in a walk. still, idk if there's landing lag though. i don't think there is.

EDIT 2: during a full tilt SH, i've been using 'a' and then down on the cstick at it gives a sliding dsmash effect. kinda cool, but probably very situational.

 

[1nconspikuous]

on another tip, while i've been trying 2 do the dsmash out of a bair cancel, i've discovered you can end up in a dash upon landing if you time your cstick down just as you land... i'm not sure how useful that is, but i've been experimenting with upsmashes out of the dash. it's a surprising little boost. might also help with surprise dash attacks at the ledge.

(just in case: usually you just land in a walk, even if you were dashing before your jump. here, you land in a dash, which is a little quicker than landing and then dashing)

EDIT: it seems like this 'dash land thing' works with _every character_. i don't think it'll be a 'huge' discovery, but one thing i've noticed -- i haven't tripped yet! =) that said, the timing is pretty frame-specific for each char. if you do it correctly you'll land and start running. if you do it incorrectly, you'll either walk in the direction you're holding or do your dsmash.
(chars that worked: bowser, ganon, ike, meta, rob, kirby, gaw, falco, sheik, zelda, snake)

 

[Noa.]

That sounds pretty useful. I'm going to experiment with it today and see if it works during a tourney.

 

[Lightning Tiger]

When airwalking with GaW will the key actually meteor/spike?