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[pulse131]

better then me thats for sure. :3

 

[Choice]

BD is aiiight. i'll start using more nair i guess. however, i think if you need to correct your DI i would say that bair is better because you get to jump earlier. sometimes you NEED the secondary action.

 

[Ishiey]

blaster can be used to momentum cancel if you b-stick it towards the stage. however if you don't do this right you float out more instead.

So wait, a bit more clarification on this. B-sticked as in wavebounced as in press B and then really quickly tap the opposite direction? I've always been unclear as to what B-sticked meant exactly >_>

 

[pulse131]

bsticking is setting the cstick controls to your specials instead of smashes/aerials. neutral is performed by ever so slightly moving the stick in the direction you want to attack. not sure how having a bstick allows the gun to momentum cancel better then just hitting b but whatev. not worth all the other stuff that csticking gives.

 

[Choice]

no b-stick as in wave bouncing, b-reversaling, etc. not setting c-stick controls to special.

 

[pulse131]

not what i heard. plus with certain characters you have to have cstick set to special in order to wavebounce, or at least to do it better and it be easier.

 

[Ishiey]

Okay, so a regular wavebounced blaster does help with momentum cancelling...

I swear I proposed this idea over a year ago, but JJ said it didn't work lol does anyone use it?

 

[Choice]

not what i heard. plus with certain characters you have to have cstick set to special in order to wavebounce, or at least to do it better and it be easier.

Thats why i said "no as in ___" I know that its also defined as switching the c-stick to specials, but thats not the definition i was using in that context. It's how most people in norcal refers to reversing your momentum through special moves and i've started using it caz its just faster to type/say.

Okay, so a regular wavebounced blaster does help with momentum cancelling...

I swear I proposed this idea over a year ago, but JJ said it didn't work lol does anyone use it?

Yea it works for everyone i believe, but if you do it wrong you're sent further out. Someone from japan has put up a video about this but i have not seen anyone do it in any match from anywhere.

 

[pulse131]

ah. well, still not worth it

 

[castorpollux]

Okay, so a regular wavebounced blaster does help with momentum cancelling...

I swear I proposed this idea over a year ago, but JJ said it didn't work lol does anyone use it?

I said it didnt work because i didnt do a reverse blaster. I did a turnaround blaster... A reverse blaster actually reverses the momentum while turnaround blaster shifts the momentum towards the direction ur blastering. I didn't knwo the difference back then because the timing and button inputs are very similar, but IM STILL NOT CONVINCED it's possible to do a "reverse blaster" while getting out of hitstun.

 

[Choice]

hmm, i think it has to be a secondary action, i'm not sure. like jump reverse blaster or bair reverse blaster.

 

[SelfPossessed]

I was under the impression that Bair -> wavebounce Blaster didn't help. If done right it doesn't hurt either (though failing can mean death), but Wolf's Blaster doesn't have the same slowing properties that Zelda Nayru's Love does. If we could wavebounce Shine that would be a candidate for momentum canceling, but we can't.

Unless I'm totally wrong and I should start wavebouncing Blasters when momentum canceling?

 

[Monkley6]

*interrupts discussion*

Is the hitlag already included in the "duration" in the frame data thread? or is that without hitting anything?

 

[Ishiey]

I was under the impression that Bair -> wavebounce Blaster didn't help. If done right it doesn't hurt either (though failing can mean death), but Wolf's Blaster doesn't have the same slowing properties that Zelda Nayru's Love does. If we could wavebounce Shine that would be a candidate for momentum canceling, but we can't.

Unless I'm totally wrong and I should start wavebouncing Blasters when momentum canceling?

This is exactly what I was thinking ;___;

And good question about the hitlag... I don't think it's included though, because then ftilt would be a lot longer

 

[Monkley6]

Alrighty, thanks
New question, since i didn't actually compare the "frame data" thread to the frame data in the guide .... which one has correct frame data @_@ They seem to be different


& howdy wolf boards

 

[Choice]

they should be the same, just one partitions the frames into more variables than the other. i'm almost 100% positive caz i read through the frame data pretty often and haven't seen any discrepancies.

 

[Ishiey]

The frame data thread is our verified frame data, I'm not sure if we updated the frame data in the guide >___________>

So basically, go with the specific frame data thread lol

 

[Monkley6]

Heh, ok thanks

 

[Laem]

for some light on the subject of recovering with blaster
wavebouncing would be double reversing your blaster
When you get launched offstage, you will face the stage
If only you would be facing away, so you could just b-reversal it
solution? reversing your b reversal(=wavebouncing) : stick away from stage > immediately neutral B afterwards > immediately stick towards stage
Im guessing the fastest way would be bair > wavebounced blaster
but maybe its just wavebounce blaster, idk

Also, i have no idea if wavebouncing blaster is actually better :D

 

[VK-137]

I've been told to incorporate the jumpshine into my game. Is that just shorthop shine? When/why would you use it over, say, general shining?

Also which characters does shine spiking work on? I know it works on fox and falco so I assume it's characters whose recoveries physically move in straight lines, but sometimes I find myself getting hit by Link on the way back up...

Obviously I'm quite a shine-happy wolf

 

[Luminoth64]

I've been told to incorporate the jumpshine into my game. Is that just shorthop shine? When/why would you use it over, say, general shining?

Also which characters does shine spiking work on? I know it works on fox and falco so I assume it's characters whose recoveries physically move in straight lines, but sometimes I find myself getting hit by Link on the way back up...

Obviously I'm quite a shine-happy wolf

fullhop shine is safer than shorthop shine like 90% of the time. the only time you want to shorthop shine really is to catch someone out of the air so you can AAA right after it. and jumpshining is used most as a mix-up and to get out undesirable situations (like getting out of grab range of someone), at least for me.

it really depends on the character, not so much if it goes straight. it works really well on diddy. it works well on pretty much any character that has a little lagtime before they can up b again. you can use it on any character, really, but it'll only work on most characters if you push them under the stage or something though.

i have a question of my own now XD which way do you guys usually DI during sheik's tilt-a-whirl?

 

[Goldenadept]

you di into death -_-

in all seriousness i'd like to know that too, i've heard down and closer to her

 

[Monkley6]

I'd have to disagree with down, because the trajectory is actually up, I think. Sooo i'd say something like up and into her? But if you go over her she can still turn-around and do it i think?

Just my 2 cents

 

[Luminoth64]

the reason you'd go into her is because it could make them screw up haha. up is a very bad idea depending on what percent you're at. that tipper usmash = death >.>

 

[SelfPossessed]

Guessing here against Sheik.

If she doesn't lift you too high, SDI down and shield. Punish.

If she lifts you a little bit too high to SDI down but not in tipper Usmash height, SDI up and either towards/away to try and mess them up with turnarounds.

If she lifts you high, DI away to survive Usmash and reduce followup options.

 

[Luminoth64]

that's good thinking, but i don't think it works >< sheik's tilt-a-whirl has so little knockback that sdi hardly affects it

 

[SelfPossessed]

SDI does affect it, but to a lower degree. Again, it is possible to SDI down and shield based on Ftilt's freshness, the percent Wolf is at, and how high he was when he was hit. At lower percents, Sheik can only Ftilt -> Jab if you SDI down. At higher percents, she'll only get 1-2 hits in before she has to finish the combo.

Good Sheiks know the percents when the Ftilt lock starts, which is when you should be camping hardcore.

 

[Luminoth64]

so you can SDI out of it at the beginning pretty much? beginning meaning lower percents (0-30ish) haha

 

[MidnightAsaph]

What percents should we know? I honestly forget. It's been almost a year since I had to deal with it.

 

[VK-137]

Out of curiosity, what is it about Yoshi's and Lylat Wolf's best and worst stages?

I know Yoshi's makes recovery easier but is there anything else I should be making use of? I find the platform gets in the way of my aerials a bit =_=.

On the other hand recovering on Lylat is kinda annoying but you get used to it don't you? It'd be worse for characters that can't aim their recoveries like marth, right? What else is there? Is there any matchup where you'd consider picking this?

 

[Luminoth64]

depending on who you're finding, the platform is great on yoshi's. against falco (and others with threatening grabs) it pretty much makes you ungrabbable if you play right. plus wolf's great aerials make landing lag easy to punish on some characters when they land on the platform.

as for lylat, his recovery is pretty much what makes this stage the worst. wolf really doesn't have any terrible stages, at least in my opinion. so the tilting stage is pretty much the only thing that makes it bad for him. personally, i hate that stage with a passion because of the recovery threat. it makes wolf's easily gimped recovery even worse >.> however i do like it against other characters that can't gimp as well because i <3 platforms.

i feel like i just rambled there, but hopefully that helps! XD

 

[Semifer]

SDI does affect it, but to a lower degree. Again, it is possible to SDI down and shield based on Ftilt's freshness, the percent Wolf is at, and how high he was when he was hit. At lower percents, Sheik can only Ftilt -> Jab if you SDI down. At higher percents, she'll only get 1-2 hits in before she has to finish the combo.

Good Sheiks know the percents when the Ftilt lock starts, which is when you should be camping hardcore.

I made the experience that you can shine out of the Usmash finisher after an Ftilt, could you test this?

Nice input anyways.

 

[Luminoth64]

i don't think you can shine out of it. i've tried everything it seems >.> i might be timing it wrong though.

i've figured out that if i'm going to improve my game more, i need to stop dodge rolling. any tips from those that have broken that habit? :/ aside, of course, from the obvious 'stop doing it' XD

 

[MidnightAsaph]

i don't think you can shine out of it. i've tried everything it seems >.> i might be timing it wrong though.

i've figured out that if i'm going to improve my game more, i need to stop dodge rolling. any tips from those that have broken that habit? :/ aside, of course, from the obvious 'stop doing it' XD

You mean like, rolling around an opponent?

Simply don't put yourself in that position. I'm not sure how I broke the habit. In fact, the only thing I can tell you is that I stopped doing it when I began watching others do it.

My advice to you is, while playing people, to assume they will roll behind you. Simply wait for it. When it does, and you punish them, it'll feel like magic. You might never roll again, because you're too busy waiting for everyone else to do it.

Better yet, run behind yourself, and they'll roll directly behind you. Then, turn and do a pivot grab. You'll feel extra sexy.

 

[Luminoth64]

hahaha great advice man, thanks. :D i already sorta wait for others to dodge now and punish, but i still need to break the habit myself. >< i think i just go into auto-pilot too much in friendlies. i should start working on it >.>

 

[MidnightAsaph]

hahaha great advice man, thanks. :D i already sorta wait for others to dodge now and punish, but i still need to break the habit myself. >< i think i just go into auto-pilot too much in friendlies. i should start working on it >.>

Put your pride on the line. It really makes a difference when you really want to win. I recently told a friend, after he made a comment that I wasn't good, that I could three stock him. He said I couldn't and that I just wasn't good enough. That insulted my pride. Next thing?

Three stocked him. This is someone that I usually just one stock.

I am ALWAYS playing lazily. But when I have reason, I really try hard enough to pull pretty good plays out my ***.

Just give yourself motivation. Mine is my pride.

 

[Luminoth64]

i suppose my motivation could be to prove to people that wolf isn't as bad as everyone thinks due to his recovery and inability to escape combos/cgs XD

i think i've got a pretty good wolf as is, but little habits like rolling are slaying me. i played m2k in a few friendlies yesterday at the showdown, and he was wrecking me because of rolling. not JUST because of that obviously XD but he was getting kills/easy % that were easily avoidable.

 

[SelfPossessed]

No clue on the Shine vs Usmash finisher or the Ftilt %. I don't play good Sheiks. I just occasionally lurk on other forums for useful information.

If you really want to get rid of a rolling habit, you can try modifying your controller settings so that you can't shield (replace it with something like grab so you can still airdodge). Play the CPU a bunch on these settings, relying on basic movement (walk/dash/SH/FH/jumpshine) to space yourself. Focus more on not getting hit than beating the computer as the CPU has some easily abusable habits when you're aggressive. Just react to the CPU, spacing Bairs (CAMP), instead of attacking all out.

If you also want additional motive to improve DI, you can set your handicap to kill percent as well. Don't get hit.

 

[castorpollux]

if u spam shine, sheik can't usmash finish you.

 

[Luminoth64]

thanks for the idea self :D i might just try that with my controls.

and how sure are you about the shine thing? i play a sheik player almost everyday and i can never seem to stop it