Ask a Qusestion. Get an Answer.

[#HBC | ZoZo]

When Falco tries to phantasm to the stage, and you get hit out of it by a projectile such as fireballs or blasters, whats the best way to get back?

DI up and recover, if its a weak projectile you should've considered the situation and saved your DJ

 

[BleachigoZX]

Hitbox Data.

Someone get on it.

 

[jinkogunai]

Falco's reflector is not a projectile, so it can't be "reflected" back at him.

Falco's reflector can multiply the damage of another projectile coming at you if you time it wrong.

Strong melee attacks hitting at the right time can do it too.

But, yeah, it doesn't exactly get "reflected" back at him.

Thanks. I think i got the answer i needed.

 

[swordsaint]

Yo, guys. So I need some help for CP stages, best 3 preferably out of this stage list:
STARTER (3)
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville

Counterpick (10)
Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
Delfino Plaza
Frigate Orpheon
Halberd
Lylat Cruise
Castle Siege
Pictochat
Brinstar
Pokemon Stadium 1

Obviously for Falco. I had trouble picking some stages at the last tournament because of the lack of normal Falco stages. So what's the best 3? (For a best of 5 set) Or would some of them be better in specific matchups?

If some are gonna be more relevant in different matchups, only worry about the ones that are MK, Marth, Wolf and Wario. Thanks peoples!

Also, best 3, not including Final Destination since it's almost always banned.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Pictochat is your best CP, definitely, so much that I hate it being banned in my region :/

Second would be Halberd, but go pictochat against characters that also kill vertically. Go halberd against charas who don't.

PS1 is a good CP stage for Falco, but only if you KNOW THE LEDGE. This takes a while to get used too. Otherwise go for CS, first part you must take the lower side, and if you CG spike go for another aerial while theyre down there and walljump back up. Second part just wait for them to come and watch them approach with spotdodges to avoid chaingrabs. Third part is a pretty nice part, just be sure to never be on the side that's tilted downwards.

 

[Jon?]

How is Pictochat a good counter pick for Falco? The RNG changing stages piss me off when I'm trying to laser camp.

 

[swordsaint]

Pictochat is your best CP, definitely, so much that I hate it being banned in my region :/

Second would be Halberd, but go pictochat against characters that also kill vertically. Go halberd against charas who don't.

PS1 is a good CP stage for Falco, but only if you KNOW THE LEDGE. This takes a while to get used too. Otherwise go for CS, first part you must take the lower side, and if you CG spike go for another aerial while theyre down there and walljump back up. Second part just wait for them to come and watch them approach with spotdodges to avoid chaingrabs. Third part is a pretty nice part, just be sure to never be on the side that's tilted downwards.

Is Smashville still better than these, or do the above ones have some better options?

I don't understand Halberd. The slanted ledges ruin phantasms and the dip lets people go under lasers. You can also go through the stage with you phantasm and die if you misspace it even slightly.

Pictochat I'd pick as the best CP after Smashville in neutrals along with Pokemon Stadium. The ledges don't bother me, cos I'm not noob.

I'd have to practice on Castle Siege, however currently my biggest issue is marth, and that doesn't seem viable against him? Though when you say "just be sure to never be on the side that's tilted downwards." Which part do you mean? Should I be on the lower ground, or the higher ground?

I thought Smashville as the neutral stage. FD get's struck.

Then Pictochat and Pokemon Stadium myself. I feel more comfortable on them personally. Elaborate a bit on what's possible on Halberd, because atm all I see is bad phantasms, bad lasers and a bad recovery.

Most of the match is played in the air, so I think it's fair to consider that floating platform the constant, rather than that Halberd itself.

Thanks anyway. I'll definately have a look in to each stage you suggested myself now though.

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

Upon further thought, I suppose I can laser camp from the centre of Halberds dip. Though where does that leave me with Phantasms? Would you consider Marth a character that can (reliably) kill upwards?

Falco boards need to liven up a little imo.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Is Smashville still better than these, or do the above ones have some better options?
Personally I don't really like smashville, because it doesn't really give us an advantage per sé. Guess I just like counterpicking.. Smashville can be taken though

I don't understand Halberd. The slanted ledges ruin phantasms and the dip lets people go under lasers. You can also go through the stage with you phantasm and die if you misspace it even slightly.
I thought you don't have problems with legdes? So that's no john. The slant is obvious where YOU should be, and seeing as Falco has very good stage control, you shouldn't have that much trouble getting there. The platform is also god tier aerial approach protection.

Pictochat I'd pick as the best CP after Smashville in neutrals along with Pokemon Stadium. The ledges don't bother me, cos I'm not noob.

I'd have to practice on Castle Siege, however currently my biggest issue is marth, and that doesn't seem viable against him? Though when you say "just be sure to never be on the side that's tilted downwards." Which part do you mean? Should I be on the lower ground, or the higher ground?
Be on the lower ground, if you do SHDL you can hit both lasers, and your phantasm won't get screwed up, and the platform is high tier aerial approach protection, against marth just go smashville or pictochat

I thought Smashville as the neutral stage. FD get's struck.
Tru

Then Pictochat and Pokemon Stadium myself. I feel more comfortable on them personally. Elaborate a bit on what's possible on Halberd, because atm all I see is bad phantasms, bad lasers and a bad recovery.
Bad recovery no, bad phantasms partially but you shouldn't really use it that much on that part anyway, and lasers are excellent if you are in the lower part if you get hit by marth's 0-death (which people who don't know the MU often do) you can survive it here by firebirding through the stage (halleluja)

Most of the match is played in the air, so I think it's fair to consider that floating platform the constant, rather than that Halberd itself.

Thanks anyway. I'll definately have a look in to each stage you suggested myself now though.

Replies in red

also to Jon, Pictochat helps us abuse our knockbacks (they somehow always connect to the stage with me, haha), makes laser spam + avoiding hazards that much more irritating and our GRAB GAME IS GOD TIIIEEEEER

 

[swordsaint]

The Halberd problem, as you can see dawned on me after posting. ^_^
And what you're saying Pictochat, is that when you knock them up and through the hazards, they stick and allow for comboes? That happened to me at my last tournament, and so I can see how Pictochat can be used well if I practice on it a bit.

I like Smashville in match-ups where the opponent might think they get gimped. Oftentimes to avoid a gimp, they'll recover to the moving platform while you're hogging the ledge. Though Falco can back off the ledge, jump and back air quick enough to punish. (At least on Marth.) And since I haven't practiced on many counterpick stages, (since the usual are banned in this series of tournaments) the flat, no hindrance stage was just what I needed.

As for the stage-edge on Halberd, I usually won't mis-space it for sure. I'm just saying it can happen. Also when I said I'm good with ledges, I should've said I'm good with lips.

Xonar, obviously you really know your stuff, but don't expect me not to question it unless I see the proper reasoning. ^_^

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

The Halberd problem, as you can see dawned on me after posting. ^_^
And what you're saying Pictochat, is that when you knock them up and through the hazards, they stick and allow for comboes? That happened to me at my last tournament, and so I can see how Pictochat can be used well if I practice on it a bit.

Well I mean that the position of Falco in combination with the knockback of his attacks often allow us to throw our enemies into the hazards. The most simplest method here is obviously a BPG

I like Smashville in match-ups where the opponent might think they get gimped. Oftentimes to avoid a gimp, they'll recover to the moving platform while you're hogging the ledge. Though Falco can back off the ledge, jump and back air quick enough to punish. (At least on Marth.) And since I haven't practiced on many counterpick stages, (since the usual are banned in this series of tournaments) the flat, no hindrance stage was just what I needed.
That's true, Smashville is considered a nice CP for falco, but so is BF. If FD is banned and you just won on neutral smashville, he won on his CP you still need a CP

As for the stage-edge on Halberd, I usually won't mis-space it for sure. I'm just saying it can happen. Also when I said I'm good with ledges, I should've said I'm good with lips.
Ok, ok. I never miss delfino and halberd anymore anyways, only PS1, it's REALLY SMALL

Xonar, obviously you really know your stuff, but don't expect me not to question it unless I see the proper reasoning. ^_^
Wouldn't want anything less

Just ask I'll try to answer

 

[swordsaint]

I'ma have to ask what a BPG is?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

I'ma have to ask what a BPG is?

Boost pivot grab

 

[swordsaint]

Ah, I always just call it a boost pivot. Never abbreviated it before.

 

[Jon?]

A question regarding Picto Chat.

Occasionally, when someone other than MK is sitting on the ledge, I tend to step back and charge Fsmash (hit box on that attack is stupid good). Does the ledges on Picto Chat make charged Fsmash at the side easier to hit or is it no recommended? I don't have much Picto Chat experience with Falco. If I go Picto Chat, I usually go as Kirby (lols at rock glitch and infinite locks).

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

A question regarding Picto Chat.

Occasionally, when someone other than MK is sitting on the ledge, I tend to step back and charge Fsmash (hit box on that attack is stupid good). Does the ledges on Picto Chat make charged Fsmash at the side easier to hit or is it no recommended? I don't have much Picto Chat experience with Falco. If I go Picto Chat, I usually go as Kirby (lols at rock glitch and infinite locks).

nah, the slanted edges only work if you place ur fsmash so that once you take your step (in the fsmash animation) you go to the slanted part.

btw we should make a list of people we can usmash while they're on the ledge, it makes dacus so much more fun ^^

 

[swordsaint]

With bad DI, could up smashing people on the ledge stage spike them?

Also, on moderate weight/heavies, if we're too close to the ledge to chain grab anymore, or BPG (lol), does down throw, jab > grab work, repeat, work? And what about down throw > jab (one hit only to cancel their momentum ) > dtilt > jab > dtilt until a about 45%ish? I haven't tried the jabtilt combo in a real game yet, too scared to, but I know when I muck around with cpus it does work.

Just a thought tbh.

What about Angling your ftilt, are there any benefits for doing so? Or is it better to not angle it?

Does FAIR have any use AT ALL? I know I don't use it, but since I haven't frequented the Falco boards often, something awesome might have been found with it. (lol asif.)

And what throws are ideal in what situations? Obviously the down throw is the best throw, but how do the fthrow, uthrow and bthrow rank up after it?

Does Falco have any GOOD grab releases on Ness? I have trouble with a local Ness player. (He's really good.) I beat him most of the time, but he handles lasers well with the psi magnet and handles the phantasm well with pk fire/fair. Which usually leads to grabs, or powerful comboes.

 

[Denzi]

There aren't any tricks link can pull on us, right?

A link main decided to money match me, and he seems so confident, so I'm a bit unsettled...

 

[swordsaint]

Denzi, it's funny you should mention that, since there is a local Link player in my region who's extremely good and is able to make the final bracket using only Link.

I don't know about Link having anything specifically on Falco, but he does have some good tricks that can really make it awkward for Falco.

If he's good with his Bomb techniques, he's obviously going to be interrupting your chain grab.

He'll probably kill you early than you will him, unless you gimp him. One tactic that can be employed is, bomb > footstool > dair.

That being said, he can also fast fall the nair after the footstool, and JAB LOCK YOU.

Lasers CAN be less effective against a Link who is patient, and willing to use the Hylian Shield.

IMO, Link is an incredibly underrated character, and if this Link main is any good, he might be able to pull off some gimps.

Of course, even with all those things considered, it's still our advantage. We're Faster, and have better attacks all around. Though be wary if he's good at DI as well.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@swordsaint: Fair has an occasional use. Rising Fair is a really large hitbox area, so you can use that in place of Dair, Bair or Nair at times if you just want to get damage. Although, that really is the only usage, but very rarely. Use it often and people will DI it like they do Snake's Nair.

There aren't any tricks link can pull on us, right?

A link main decided to money match me, and he seems so confident, so I'm a bit unsettled...

I've played plenty of Links. And I mean a lot . . . 3 dozen at least. Most aren't exceptional, but I feel there isn't anything I have not seen already with them.

 

[WaterTails]

Hitbox Data.

Someone get on it.

I've started on it, but it's so tedious. I'll probably do a few more moves this weekend.

There aren't any tricks link can pull on us, right?

A link main decided to money match me, and he seems so confident, so I'm a bit unsettled...

I hate this matchup so much. Maybe this is because I end up playing Blubba at almost every tournament I go to, but watch out for his zair. Also, don't get bombstooled.

Additionally, Link mains are arrogant as all get-out, so he might just be a scrub.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

With bad DI, could up smashing people on the ledge stage spike them?

yeah if they DI towards the stage
Also, on moderate weight/heavies, if we're too close to the ledge to chain grab anymore, or BPG (lol), does down throw, jab > grab work, repeat, work? And what about down throw > jab (one hit only to cancel their momentum ) > dtilt > jab > dtilt until a about 45%ish? I haven't tried the jabtilt combo in a real game yet, too scared to, but I know when I muck around with cpus it does work.

Just a thought tbh.
All a no

What about Angling your ftilt, are there any benefits for doing so? Or is it better to not angle it?
Angle it up for better anti air

Does FAIR have any use AT ALL? I know I don't use it, but since I haven't frequented the Falco boards often, something awesome might have been found with it. (lol asif.)

Nope, no use at all xD
And what throws are ideal in what situations? Obviously the down throw is the best throw, but how do the fthrow, uthrow and bthrow rank up after it?
Bthrow is a killing setup, follow it up with a uair, punish airdodge with bair.
Uthrow is only for getting people upwards, i.e. against marth this might be good.
Dthrow is a nice kill setup, especially with DACUS, best setup, best hitstun, best position.
Fthrow is just a mixup with dthrow, and if you want to play around with move staling n stuff use it. i.e. you want them further away, but dthrow is stale, use fthrow

Does Falco have any GOOD grab releases on Ness? I have trouble with a local Ness player. (He's really good.) I beat him most of the time, but he handles lasers well with the psi magnet and handles the phantasm well with pk fire/fair. Which usually leads to grabs, or powerful comboes.
You shouldn't even laser that much in this mu, you need to laser like you do against most reflect/absorb characters, do it in midrange, then if they use their move you can punish it. Grab release usmash is our best I think or it is gatling combo, but i never tried that. Also, a while ago 2 chaps in the FBRoom said we have an infinite op Ness with BPG, but nothing ever came from that

Glad I could help

@ Denzi
If the Link is any good, he's gonna be pressuring your shield like a mother****er, if he Fsmashes ROLL THE SECOND HIT. That thing eats like 70% of your shield lol and if he got some bomb momentum going you won't have any shield left. Errr, don't get bomb footstooled, play extremely safe, don't go for followups (Dair might just kill you at 60%). Don't use lasers in the start, bait a bomb and chaingrab him

 

[swordsaint]

Thanks for the throw info. Definately need to improve my throw game and actually understand WHY I'm using certain throws, not just doing different ones as mixups. So that's really good to hear.

Are you sure grab release to up smash works? I'm pretty sure I've tried that and got shielded...

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Thanks for the throw info. Definately need to improve my throw game and actually understand WHY I'm using certain throws, not just doing different ones as mixups. So that's really good to hear.

Are you sure grab release to up smash works? I'm pretty sure I've tried that and got shielded...

not 100%, but you can also cg till the edge the dthrow and follow him, he'll probably or jump or airdodge, if he jumps interrupt it with dair if you airdodges just wait, now he has to jump and you can interrupt it. Dthrow is a nice gimp against ness, if they DI it upwards just wait for the AD and fsmash

 

[swordsaint]

by CG, do you mean grab release walk forward/dash grab? or normal cg, because if you're saying anything about a normal cg it's all the normal stuff I'd already be doing tbh

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

by CG, do you mean grab release walk forward/dash grab? or normal cg, because if you're saying anything about a normal cg it's all the normal stuff I'd already be doing tbh

I mean a grab release chaingrab

 

[gopobox]

So similar to marths grab release cg on ness?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So similar to marths grab release cg on ness?

with a dash or walk, im not sure.

Not even 100% sure it's possible, but it seems possible.

 

[swordsaint]

I just tested it, it quite obvious that nothing <useful> can be done out of Falco's grab release on Ness, and it's much more advantageous to just throw.

 

[gopobox]

Would that mean other characters than falco could have a grab release cg on ness too?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Would that mean other characters than falco could have a grab release cg on ness too?

Some characters grab release CG Ness over the whole stage

 

[gopobox]

Some characters grab release CG Ness over the whole stage

Oh noes IC's

Edit: OH RIGHT MARFZ

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Oh noes IC's

Edit: OH RIGHT MARFZ

Also sheik and a few others whom i forgot

 

[swordsaint]

zard

10zards

 

[nvus]

what are falcos kill moves? usmash, dair, bair, fsmash?

 

[gopobox]

dair isnt a great killer unless if its a spike. but it is a good move to setup some kill moves.
you might want to add the up air..
otherwise usmash, bair, fsmash all kill nicely.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Dash attack utilt..

 

[J4pu]

ground grab release > ftilt is all we got on Ness, I play one pretty often.

 

[swordsaint]

better to throw then, how boring lol

What's a suitable way to use the reflector? I don't mean just simply to reflect, characters that it's useful to use on as a spacing tool, or to trip. Things like that.

 

[J4pu]

SH retreating reflector, or even better: never

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Well I use it once in a whole against spacing characters.

If they are like diagonally above you, you can come from below and do a fullhop shine (from below), this way you're safe from their spacers and it resets their aerial momentum. Somehow it's better then laser tbh lol.

Also J4, have you ever tried a buffered BPG?