Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[DarkRunner00]

okay... so.

I seriously, since DS out of shield is really important now.

What is so great about have it "out of" shield, rather than shield drop -> DS.

I'm aware of the slight extra jump out of the shield, but doesn't the shield drop just the same?

EDIT: I aplogize, this is my 2nd double post in like a day. didn't know that.

 

[Steel]

So you can stay invincible the whole time. Shield protection -> invincibility frames = can't get hit. Take rob's dsmash or GW's bair for an example on how this would work.

 

[Pierce7d]

okay... so.

I seriously, since DS out of shield is really important now.

What is so great about have it "out of" shield, rather than shield drop -> DS.

I'm aware of the slight extra jump out of the shield, but doesn't the shield drop just the same?

Picture this. Dolphin Slash begins with 4 frames of of invincibility. Nothing can hit you. During those 4 frames, attacks and grabs will go right through Marth. On Frame 5, a hitbox appears, so your opponent is hit, and you are not.

Now, if you do this out of shield, you just went from a state where only grabs affect you, to a state where nothing affects you, and then you blow your opponent away. If done on reaction, any time anything hits your shield with less range than Marth's dtilt, they're eating 13% if fresh, and suffering moderate knockback. It's my primary method of K.O.ing.

During Shield drop, you can get hit, by something like a jab. You're open for a brief time, and it's not as quick, because with Tap Jump on, you jump cancel your shield when you Dolphin Slash.

In conclusion, Dolphin Slash out of shield is safe and faster than Dolphin Slash after shield drop.

So turn on that tap jump!

If there's anything you didn't understand in my explanation, feel free to let me know, and I'll try to clarify.

 

[DarkRunner00]

gotcha... its just... gah... i'm afraid of messing up utilts and accidently wasting my second jump =/...

of course those are reduced through practice...

 

[Pierce7d]

Precisely. Plus, it helps you do all sorts of cool stuffs by accident, like footstool, etc.

 

[VietGeek]

Precisely. Plus, it helps you do all sorts of cool stuffs by accident, like footstool, etc.

Brawl is a fluke.

 

[Steel]

Brawl is a fluke.

viet did you know i have more posts than you

im pro at spamming tbh

 

[Nibbity]

Accidentally footstooling makes me feel awful.

 

[Pierce7d]

viet did you know i have more posts than you

im pro at spamming tbh

Did you know I feel behind when school started?

 

[Steel]

Did you know I feel behind when school started?

johns tbqh

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Did you know, i have more posts than all of you tbqh.

 

[Punishment Divine]

Would you guys say the best way to beat GnW's turtle is DS OoS? I've been having a little trouble with him lately, namely the turtle, and I'm just wondering if it's best to wh0re DS and only wait for him to mess up to actually use other moves lol

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Just counter or ds oos.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Get at me, most posts right now bros!

As for Bair, yeah you probably won't be using it for killing, so go ahead and punish him with DS every time. Free damage, and overused DS can refresh your other moves as well.

Counter works too.

 

[Pierce7d]

I just take the turtle like a man!

Just kidding. Counter if you can, Dolphin Slash if not.

 

[misterbushido01]

is there any tips playing against dk
im having quite a lot of trouble against him

 

[Pierce7d]

is there any tips playing against dk
im having quite a lot of trouble against him

Sure. Try reading that thread, and then asking more specific questions here, if you have anymore.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5347904

 

[misterbushido01]

Sure. Try reading that thread, and then asking more specific questions here, if you have anymore.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5347904

thanks i didnt know they discussed DK
any tips on preventing DK gimping me because bair ***** me and i have no clue what to do

 

[DarkRunner00]

Air dodge. Don't waste your second jump until below stage (then use DB to raise yourself) and then you have your DS.

Does his bair more priority than Marth's fair.

 

[misterbushido01]

Air dodge. Don't waste your second jump until below stage (then use DB to raise yourself) and then you have your DS.

Does his bair more priority than Marth's fair.

hmm ill try to fair him but wen i airdodge he still gets me
my friends is too good T-T

 

[3xSwords]

Aerials have no "priority" but bair does have more "range" than Marth's fair IIRC. However, Marth's fair would beat out a bair, if it hits DK's legs, because the bair's hitbox is also the hurtbox while Marth's sword is just a hurtbox. I'm pretty sure this is the correct way to explain "priority" but I don't have too much experience in that area.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Ok I got a new one, now I've learned a great deal here, you guys taught me to edgegaurd properly, adv techs, and to dair meteor the right way.

Now, I just need help on one more aspect: zoning and walls. Now, I know camping with fair's are viable, but I seem to mess up occasionally, throwing me off. And, I wonder if I can use retreating nair's to wall sometimes.

Help?

 

[3xSwords]

What works, works. If you can use nair in your wall then do it. You see we only say fair wall b/c that is the simplest and most obvious example. However, you can do any type of wall as long as it serves the purpose of keeping people out, so just mix it up and experiment.

For example a wall could be double fair, or single fair>FF> dtilt, ftilt or DB, or it could be retreating nair or bair. There are many others, try one that suits your style. And remember you don't have to stick to just one type of move to wall.

 

[Pr0phetic]

k, thanks for the input, its kinda hard to zone like VietGeek, NEO, and other vids I saw when im only playing my little brother to practice for now.

 

[feardragon64]

What works, works. If you can use nair in your wall then do it. You see we only say fair wall b/c that is the simplest and most obvious example. However, you can do any type of wall as long as it serves the purpose of keeping people out, so just mix it up and experiment.

And you have to be able to pull it off. That's just a little important =]

I DUB THEE THE FSMASH WALL....it depressing because too many people think that's a legitimate wall....

 

[3xSwords]

working means you pulled it off.... >_>

too many people are noobs, seriously though we got to go away from these vague generalizations and try to stay within the community so it won't be "too many people are noobs" just "many people are noobs" XP

 

[DarkRunner00]

Walls...

ftilt and dtilt. Fair and DI properly and accordingly. Retreating fairs are probably more effective than retreating nairs, but you may correct me.

too close, pull out jabs to space and then run off and camp.

Zone...

SB and Fsmash. Keep them at tip range. If they penetrate bring shield, Dsmash, DB, DS.

SB will keep them at your distance.

 

[Pr0phetic]

I know enough to keep distance with FTilt, DTilt. And, to use Fari, to wall and zone and camp. However, when I ask a question, it isn't for a how-to, its for a pinpoint improvement, so I ask for practice advice.

But, you guys are always helpful, I thank you =]

 

[feardragon64]

It's really situational to know when to use what. But it's something you can't really practice against computers....just grab a friend and play some friendlies. To be honest, I forced a friend to play with me in special brawl slow mo until I could get spacing down. Just realize when each move should be used in theory at least and you'll slowly understand when to decide between ftilt and jab, or fair and dtilt, etc. I'm not breaking down the how-to for you since you say you already know the how-to and just want practice advice. But honestly, just practice, and if you can grab a friend to go slow-mo until you can get a general hang of it, go for it.

 

[Pr0phetic]

sounds like a plan, thanks.

 

[Steel]

So i'm curious

If simple question threads are getting locked because this thread exists... why isn't this thread stickied?

 

[Pr0phetic]

I think the mods agreed with that dudes comment on the first page, about how its truely effective only if its constantly on the first page, w/o sticky.

Just a picky guess...

 

[DUB]

So... I heard Marth was a good secondary for Diddy because he matches up well against Diddy's bad matchups. Amirite?

 

[TheRazaman]

OK, i posted in here awhile back with a question about Fox.

I had trouble with my friends Fox back then, and I still do now. We've both evolved how we play our chars (me w/Marth him w/Fox) but he still beats me with like 30% on his last life.
Its really annoying because I go pretty much even with his DK and everything else, but when he wants a Marth-killer he brings out Fox.

Typically I need to watch a good match involving Marth and other characters in order to understand how it is to go about Marths matchups. So, could someone perhaps post (or just link) me to a good Marth vs Fox video? The Marth video archive doesnt have any new/good ones.

I suppose the worst part about this whole thing is that everyone on the Marth boards seems to agree that the matchup is at least 65:35 in Marths favor yet I still lose pretty consistently.
I'd say my biggest issue (in all matchups tbh) is Marth off the stage. I'm pretty much terribad at finishing the opponent when he's offstage.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

So... I heard Marth was a good secondary for Diddy because he matches up well against Diddy's bad matchups. Amirite?

For the most part yes, and Diddy does well against MK IMO, so this is a good 1-2 punch.

 

[feardragon64]

For the most part yes, and Diddy does well against MK IMO, so this is a good 1-2 punch.

On final destination. It's arguable on other stages.

In my opinion, if you're up against an mk and the player has the skill(lol whatever skill is needed) to beat you with him, you're already screwed. You can't change your character, even though you can pick the stage. Unless you pick diddy the first match AND get final d in the random(25% chance) it's still a disadvantage. If you don't get final d the first match, you're still at a disadvantage, but now you can cp final d and have a slight advantage. Only now presuming you win that match, mk can pick any stage he wants minus the first stage and you're at a disadvantage no matter what since it won't be on final d. But you still have the option of a character switch so you can switch to your presumable primary which is Marth and have a disadvantage still, even though you're presumably more skilled with him as your main.

But long story short, 25% chance of picking diddy vs MK actually working out for you for that one match. But after that, you have to figure out how to beat mk without final d. I don't think diddy has an advantage on any other stage. =\

 

[DarkRunner00]

OK, i posted in here awhile back with a question about Fox.

I had trouble with my friends Fox back then, and I still do now. We've both evolved how we play our chars (me w/Marth him w/Fox) but he still beats me with like 30% on his last life.
Its really annoying because I go pretty much even with his DK and everything else, but when he wants a Marth-killer he brings out Fox.

Typically I need to watch a good match involving Marth and other characters in order to understand how it is to go about Marths matchups. So, could someone perhaps post (or just link) me to a good Marth vs Fox video? The Marth video archive doesnt have any new/good ones.

I suppose the worst part about this whole thing is that everyone on the Marth boards seems to agree that the matchup is at least 65:35 in Marths favor yet I still lose pretty consistently.
I'd say my biggest issue (in all matchups tbh) is Marth off the stage. I'm pretty much terribad at finishing the opponent when he's offstage.

Bair off stage... Bair -> Dair or Bair -> FF Fair

I don't understand how you can be goofing up too much versus fox.

Let him approach. And he won't be able to, so then you punish. Repeat this process until he won't approach, spamming lasers.

Keep him at tip range when on the ground. Zone with SB and Fsmash. If they approach via anything, just shield -> grab or shield -> DS or shield -> DB. If he approaches with Dair, shield the whole thing. (I don't believe it is DS able)

Keep him in the air, but don't let him below you (and in control, since his uair is still killer) You out range him and out priority him in the air.

When he stops approaching, just space out tips and wreck him.

Off stage, just edgehog them. Illusions are easily punishable.

Someone correct me?

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

On final destination. It's arguable on other stages.

In my opinion, if you're up against an mk and the player has the skill(lol whatever skill is needed) to beat you with him, you're already screwed. You can't change your character, even though you can pick the stage. Unless you pick diddy the first match AND get final d in the random(25% chance) it's still a disadvantage. If you don't get final d the first match, you're still at a disadvantage, but now you can cp final d and have a slight advantage. Only now presuming you win that match, mk can pick any stage he wants minus the first stage and you're at a disadvantage no matter what since it won't be on final d. But you still have the option of a character switch so you can switch to your presumable primary which is Marth and have a disadvantage still, even though you're presumably more skilled with him as your main.

But long story short, 25% chance of picking diddy vs MK actually working out for you for that one match. But after that, you have to figure out how to beat mk without final d. I don't think diddy has an advantage on any other stage. =\

It works for me because my marth is not very good vs. MK.

 

[DUB]

But long story short, 25% chance of picking diddy vs MK actually working out for you for that one match. But after that, you have to figure out how to beat mk without final d. I don't think diddy has an advantage on any other stage. =\

Yeah there are a lot of people on the Diddy boards who second Marth. At the tourney i usually go to I end up playing the MK every-time. Smashville is good for Diddy, and I don't mind BF that much against the MK's. I'd much rather play a MK with my Diddy rather then Marth.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Ok, guys do you think we should do a Marth stage discussion like the character discussion and then instead of like 60-40 and so on, we could do like a usability ranking out of 10. If you guys like the idea, I'll do them if you want.