Ask a quick question, get a quick answer (The Marth FAQ's)

[Odigo]

Sonic didn't jump and Diddy didn't take damage.
Don't the initial grab frames have super armor or invincibility frames?
Even if they do, this happened when sonic (apparently) let go of Diddy, not as he grabbed him.

EDIT: My mistake, Diddy DID take damage. That whole faux super armor thing is weird though...

 

[garrR]

do you need tap jump on to use dolphin slash out of shield effectively? i have tap jump off and whenever i try to DS, it doesn't seem to come out fast enough. do i need the jump to cancel the shield?? thanks.

 

[Punishment Divine]

do you need tap jump on to use dolphin slash out of shield effectively? i have tap jump off and whenever i try to DS, it doesn't seem to come out fast enough. do i need the jump to cancel the shield?? thanks.

Yes, in order to get full effect of DS's invincibility frames, that is, to go straight from shielding to being invincible, you must have tap jump on. Unless you have the most amazing timing in the world, in which case you don't need it. I'd take the easy way, though

 

[Odigo]

I don't have the time to check this weekend, but can you DS out of Ike's jab combo?

 

[Punishment Divine]

I don't have the time to check this weekend, but can you DS out of Ike's jab combo?

I'm going to say yes.

 

[3xSwords]

I don't have the time to check this weekend, but can you DS out of Ike's jab combo?

Yes you can with appropriate SDI and whatnot. However, if Ike just shields or you SDI'd too far away from him and you miss, could = death.

 

[Daedatheus]

Hey guys. Quick question.
What is a list of projectiles that Marth can safely swat while standing or moving, and that are actually practical to do so to? (As in, you can consistently do it without worry and maybe even do so progressively)

Thanks! This list will be helpful to others too, I'm sure. I know a bunch from real matches, but haven't tested all projectiles in real matches. I say real matches because the practicality is more important than just the possibility.

 

[Steel]

Anything that is solid or lucario's aura sphere.

 

[3xSwords]

Perfect shielding is a better option and will help you out in the long run, but yes if you want to swat projectiles then what Steel said is correct.

 

[garrR]

Yes, in order to get full effect of DS's invincibility frames, that is, to go straight from shielding to being invincible, you must have tap jump on. Unless you have the most amazing timing in the world, in which case you don't need it. I'd take the easy way, though

hmmm. this is going to take some adjusting for me. i'm using to playing with tap jump off and using the up tilt alot. i tried turning it off so i could DS out of shield effectively, but i keep accidentally jumping and screwing up my uptilt. oh well, i'll keep practicing. it'll be worth it in the long run.

 

[l3lue2ain]

haha well I was going to start a new topic but I have this "habit" of reading stickies or things close to the top alot...

Anyway a brief history about me I was a marth main in melee. But I could not accept him the way he was with the whole nerfing of his spike. I actually was playing metaknight up until the point I realized that everyone gradually hates you when you play metaknight and although wining ins alot of fun I don't think my skills where developing as they should because I would have a poor to -average stage metagame then my whole tactic was to try to get them off the stage just to gimp them. But although I have been losing alot with marth I think that its more gradtifying to win with him.

Anyway... my question is this how does marth deal with projectiles people that I would be 3-stocking with metakngiht easily are beating marths *** I am sick and tired of chasing people so many people just run away... from marth its like I hate playing pit they just run away and shoot arrows pits forward smash is like canceling out me tipping him WHAT THE HELL is that? please advise... Although I am jumping dodging and sheilding envitably will take damage..

 

[feardragon64]

haha well I was going to start a new topic but I have this "habit" of reading stickies or things close to the top alot...

Can I have your babies?
Let's make offspring that do the same. There are clearly not enough in the world.

Anyway... my question is this how does marth deal with projectiles people that I would be 3-stocking with metakngiht easily are beating marths *** I am sick and tired of chasing people so many people just run away... from marth its like I hate playing pit they just run away and shoot arrows pits forward smash is like canceling out me tipping him WHAT THE HELL is that? please advise... Although I am jumping dodging and sheilding envitably will take damage..

-Power shield
-Swat them
-SHAD(short hop air dodge)

In my opinion, in order of what I think you should do ideally. Those are basically your main ways to deal with them. Close the distance and if they're camping like that stay in their face(with your hitboxes not your hurtboxes >>)

 

[l3lue2ain]

Can I have your babies?
Let's make offspring that do the same. There are clearly not enough in the world.



-Power shield
-Swat them
-SHAD(short hop air dodge)

In my opinion, in order of what I think you should do ideally. Those are basically your main ways to deal with them. Close the distance and if they're camping like that stay in their face(with your hitboxes not your hurtboxes >>)

God and the next thing that is killing me is my approach I feel like I am just doing fair ,fair , fair forward smash and the ocasional shield breaker and b strings.. Where is the mixup.. I feel predictable.

 

[feardragon64]

^Dtilt is love my friend
Show the world your love

10dtilthippies

 

[Pr0phetic]

How do you record the frames for characters, such as those in Steel's thread?
I need to learn that, among other things.

 

[l3lue2ain]

thats another thing with the whole short hop air dodge and chase tatic this does not include what they roll past you is the best you can do is down smash... where is the punishment..

 

[3xSwords]

How do you record the frames for characters, such as those in Steel's thread?
I need to learn that, among other things.

He goes and buys a 60 fps recording Camera, does an action and records it, shouts it to the computer and goes frame by frame to see what happens.
Quoted from Shaya

thats another thing with the whole short hop air dodge and chase tatic this does not include what they roll past you is the best you can do is down smash... where is the punishment..

Ummmm..... sorry I really don't understand your question, you are missing words here and there. If you are asking how D-smash doesn't punish rolls, it does if they roll behind you.

 

[garrR]

Yes, in order to get full effect of DS's invincibility frames, that is, to go straight from shielding to being invincible, you must have tap jump on. Unless you have the most amazing timing in the world, in which case you don't need it. I'd take the easy way, though

my 2nd reply to this. i don't think i can live with tap jump on since i love my uptilt, so instead, i changed my R button to B and just press X+R+up in order to DS oos. it seems to work fine so far...

 

[Pr0phetic]

my 2nd reply to this. i don't think i can live with tap jump on since i love my uptilt, so instead, i changed my R button to B and just press X+R+up in order to DS oos. it seems to work fine so far...

Eh, it sounds to complicated, just tilt the **** stick lazy *****.

 

[Ayen]

Theres a way to escape Ice Climber chain grab with Marth?

 

[Odigo]

Theres a way to escape Ice Climber chain grab with Marth?

I think you can dolphin slash out of a non perfect chaingrab, although I don't think a perfectly executed IC cg is escapable.

But not many people can cg with IC's well. That **** is hard.

 

[Semmick]

What is the best way to get a kill as Marth?

 

[illinialex24]

I think you can dolphin slash out of a non perfect chaingrab, although I don't think a perfectly executed IC cg is escapable.

But not many people can cg with IC's well. That **** is hard.

You can't if they use alternating grabs period. And thats expected in the tournaments, what wasn't expected in melee was how amazing ChuDat was with IC.

 

[Pr0phetic]

What is the best way to get a kill as Marth?

DS OoS
10dolphinsplashes

 

[Ayen]

I think you can dolphin slash out of a non perfect chaingrab, although I don't think a perfectly executed IC cg is escapable.

But not many people can cg with IC's well. That **** is hard.

I try to dolphin slash, but i cant.

Yesterday i play with a guy that play Ice climber so cool, he do that chain grab perfect.

 

[Odigo]

Oh. Well that sucks.

Don't get grabbed.

 

[Ayen]

I need to get a option to escape from that grab.

Well, always thanks.

 

[illinialex24]

I need to get a option to escape from that grab.

Well, always thanks.

There is none, thats what the IC's are, good chain-grabs.

This is Chudat's combo video from melee and this is when the danger comes in: when the IC can beat you if he's not grabbing, which made ChuDat so good. The same thing is with Lain in Brawl, I've seen him with 1 IC and he is sick with 1 IC and he can do more than just chain-grabs to win, but hes amazing with those too.

 

[3xSwords]

my 2nd reply to this. i don't think i can live with tap jump on since i love my uptilt, so instead, i changed my R button to B and just press X+R+up in order to DS oos. it seems to work fine so far...

Just do u-tilt with tap jump on. Oh well whatever works for you.... however, u-tilt isn't that big of a part in Marth's game. Just saying...

 

[Coda]

has pivot grab been proven to have the greatest grab range for marth?

i have seen it. but is it possible that it has the same range but due to the dash momentum the grab also dashes too..

much like the sleeping phantasm?

 

[3xSwords]

Idk what you are talking about but yes pivot grab has the most range for Marth IIRC

 

[illinialex24]

Oh 3x. The tip on C-sticking my aerials has improved my Marth a lot, I'm still pretty bad with him compared to most of my guys but I'm working on it.

That and I'm funning Ganondorf just for fun.

 

[Coda]

Idk what you are talking about but yes pivot grab has the most range for Marth IIRC

i'm talking about that... everyone is 100% sure that pivot grab has magical range...

i'm saying that pivot grabbing creates momentum and causes the grabbing to initiate, while "warping" or sliding to another destination.

Therefore, how is it sure that the grab range has been defined since... on a stationary opponent, i tested. that there is a certain range that the pivot grab will grab, and versus a dash from approximate distants (of course a few millimeters can make a difference)

but I've only seen a very little if not even a distance.

The sleeping phantasm is when "sing" is initiated at the beginning of Falco's or Fox's side b. After the animation of their respective attacks they land, sleeping.

...

like when Marth misses the pivot grab, he slides backwards a helluvalot.

Sometimes a pivot grab occurs and no motion is animated (or I did it wrong and just turned and did a standing grab) and other times it does the whole animation and at the end of the animation the opponent is grabbed.

But that's not the point of this question anymore. What purposes is pivot grabbing used for. That out weighs Shield -> Grab...

...?

 

[Punishment Divine]

i'm talking about that... everyone is 100% sure that pivot grab has magical range...

i'm saying that pivot grabbing creates momentum and causes the grabbing to initiate, while "warping" or sliding to another destination.

Therefore, how is it sure that the grab range has been defined since... on a stationary opponent, i tested. that there is a certain range that the pivot grab will grab, and versus a dash from approximate distants (of course a few millimeters can make a difference)

but I've only seen a very little if not even a distance.

The sleeping phantasm is when "sing" is initiated at the beginning of Falco's or Fox's side b. After the animation of their respective attacks they land, sleeping.

...

like when Marth misses the pivot grab, he slides backwards a helluvalot.

Sometimes a pivot grab occurs and no motion is animated (or I did it wrong and just turned and did a standing grab) and other times it does the whole animation and at the end of the animation the opponent is grabbed.

But that's not the point of this question anymore. What purposes is pivot grabbing used for. That out weighs Shield -> Grab...

...?

I don't see why he would slide back a lot unless you're boost pivoting, Shieldgrabbing is more useful than running grab, because Marth's standing grab>his running grab. His pivot has much more range, but is more situational. For instance, your opponent is moving towards you and as they approach, you do a boost pivot to grab them out of it because Marth's has such smexy range.

 

[3xSwords]

Oh 3x. The tip on C-sticking my aerials has improved my Marth a lot, I'm still pretty bad with him compared to most of my guys but I'm working on it.

That and I'm funning Ganondorf just for fun.

good for you. If you are going to fun Ganon you should just fun C. Falcon instead

i'm talking about that... everyone is 100% sure that pivot grab has magical range...

i'm saying that pivot grabbing creates momentum and causes the grabbing to initiate, while "warping" or sliding to another destination.

Therefore, how is it sure that the grab range has been defined since... on a stationary opponent, i tested. that there is a certain range that the pivot grab will grab, and versus a dash from approximate distants (of course a few millimeters can make a difference)

but I've only seen a very little if not even a distance.

The sleeping phantasm is when "sing" is initiated at the beginning of Falco's or Fox's side b. After the animation of their respective attacks they land, sleeping.

...

like when Marth misses the pivot grab, he slides backwards a helluvalot.

Sometimes a pivot grab occurs and no motion is animated (or I did it wrong and just turned and did a standing grab) and other times it does the whole animation and at the end of the animation the opponent is grabbed.

But that's not the point of this question anymore. What purposes is pivot grabbing used for. That out weighs Shield -> Grab...

...?

lol Only ppl that have seen it for the first time think that it has a "magical" range. But yes the grabbing hit box moves as Marth moves.

Now technically when you pivot grab you aren't supposed to slide at all. That's the reverse dash grab. Reverse dash grab allows you to move forwards while grabbing behind yourself. Pivot grab is you just turn around and grab behind you and you don't continue sliding and is done after your initial dash.

Reverse dash grabbing or pivot grabbing is mainly used to counter head on approaches. Dash attacks get easily countered by this, and if you time it correctly you can even catch MK out of his tornado. Only used to punish an obvious approach though, and offensively uses are kinda more as a surprise/mindgame tactic. Ex. Common one is run at opponent, they spot dodge, the reverse dash grab catches them out of their animation.

This type of grabbing is not "crucial" to Marth's game but it is a very useful thing to know.

I don't see why he would slide back a lot unless you're boost pivoting, Shieldgrabbing is more useful than running grab, because Marth's standing grab>his running grab. His pivot has much more range, but is more situational. For instance, your opponent is moving towards you and as they approach, you do a boost pivot to grab them out of it because Marth's has such smexy range.

Marth doesn't have a boost pivot grab . However, his reverse dash grab does make him slide quite a bit

 

[Punishment Divine]

Marth doesn't have a boost pivot grab . However, his reverse dash grab does make him slide quite a bit

Really? Then what have i been doing this entire time?! NOOOO! MY LIFE IS A LIE!!!

 

[Darxmarth23]

i'm talking about that... everyone is 100% sure that pivot grab has magical range...

i'm saying that pivot grabbing creates momentum and causes the grabbing to initiate, while "warping" or sliding to another destination.

Therefore, how is it sure that the grab range has been defined since... on a stationary opponent, i tested. that there is a certain range that the pivot grab will grab, and versus a dash from approximate distants (of course a few millimeters can make a difference)

but I've only seen a very little if not even a distance.

The sleeping phantasm is when "sing" is initiated at the beginning of Falco's or Fox's side b. After the animation of their respective attacks they land, sleeping.

...

like when Marth misses the pivot grab, he slides backwards a helluvalot.

Sometimes a pivot grab occurs and no motion is animated (or I did it wrong and just turned and did a standing grab) and other times it does the whole animation and at the end of the animation the opponent is grabbed.

But that's not the point of this question anymore. What purposes is pivot grabbing used for. That out weighs Shield -> Grab...

...?

Dude, you have the wierdest vocab ever.

 

[Semmick]

Dude, you have the wierdest vocab ever.

Incredibly random

 

[Darxmarth23]

Incredibly random

Yeah, thats pretty much me.

 

[Semmick]

Yeah, thats pretty much me.

randomftw.