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[Yung Mei]

also, who do you main in smash64? that way i can link you to the correct character section.



He's not kidding, if you think melee is hard wait until you're getting wall chained with tilts and grabs in the rapetent, getting shine canceled and shine gaurded, getting ***** by utilting kirbys, getting stuck in infinite congo holds, etc.

If i were you, i would first start off and use fox, he has a simple learning curve.

thanks for the help everyone, i really appreciate it

@ the moment, im trying to get used to the feel of Captain Falcon and Fox

 

[Sempiternity]

Do NOT purchase a gamepad or adapter for Mac. Gamepad support for all emulators is monopolized by this one guy who developed the software for it, and you will need to pay $30 to be able to use gamepads with emulators.

I learned this the hard way when getting a Genesis controller and emulators for my girlfriend...

However, the quick fix was installing Windows on a partition!

 

[Blade689]

@Ballin: I would say that fox can be a hard match up for jiggy if you are aggressive....... but the flaw is the gap in speed on approach and retreat you could always abuse. If a jiggy player camps up high........ just get outside of its drill range. Force it to lean on its attack while it approaches and you'll be able to read it better. I'm not saying to camp..... I'm just saying don't run forward when they have a favorable position against fox, because I know how powerful a jiggy is when its on top. lolz. grapist. lolz. Anyway, I think that people normally run into problems against a jiggy player because its approach on attacks are so limited that the few it has is strong....... so people don't read the momentary gaps in power jiggy can create with its multi-jumping. When you take the power away from its float...... you've already stopped a jiggy player, now you just gotta kill it........... sigh......... why do I say such things........... now jiggy is less fun in my eyes.......... luckily none of my friends read what i say here ever =)............... slightly pathetic...... but keeps this **** a trade secret know what I mean? lolz.

Follow up towards Suri: The U-air in reverse? Does that out distance a Puff punch/F-air on jiggy? Normally I just do a drop down bellow pikachu if he gets in ma face with U-airs and do the same back.......... I know its a strong attack, but I think the B-air just shuts down a jiggy sssssoooooo much more....... it looks like a switch blade..... range of a shotgun. Both don't sound nice towards a balloon at any moment. lolz

 

[Dsc]

Ok im so ****ing curious about this but

Johnny=captainblowjob=s2j???

 

[asianaussie]

johnny is not s2j

s2j is captainblowjob

i think

 

[ballin4life]

Ok im so ****ing curious about this but

Johnny=captainblowjob=s2j???

Yes, but the johnny that you see playing isai on youtube is actually smashthugz on smashboards, and John on kaillera.

 

[Surri-Sama]

johnny is not s2j

s2j is captainblowjob

i think

This is the Truth of it. S2J might be named johnny...but he is not PARK, and thats who you are talking about, i assume anyways.

NOW who can tell me who DullahanHeartless is?!

 

[NixxxoN]

lolwut johhny, s2j and park are all 3 different players

 

[dandan]

lolwut johhny, s2j and park are all 3 different players

s2j's name is johnny though, iirc.

 

[Surri-Sama]

yea thats what i ment

S2J = Capitan BlowJob...who is named Johnny
Park = Smashthug ...who is also named Johnny

I think thats correct lol

 

[Dsc]

So park=johnny in those isai matches?

 

[Surri-Sama]

I thought so...I feel like someone is gonna come here and say OMG NO WRONG STFU though.

So I'll put

IIRC

 

[dch111]

yea thats what i ment

S2J = Capitan BlowJob...who is named Johnny
Park = Smashthug ...who is also named Johnny

I think thats correct lol

No, Nixxxon is correct. Park is not Johnny. Johnny is the Johnny from old Isai vs. Johnny videos. His account here is Smashthugz. But his player name is Johnny. I don't know who Park is beyond the old videos.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Lol alright.

Could Isai come and clear this up?

I bet he is laughing at us secretly, or at least laughing at me!

 

[th3kuzinator]

sorry to derail this johnny chain.

But how are people saying that smash64 is more difficult than melee?

I am fairly competent in smash64, but melee is way too technical for me.

 

[NixxxoN]

surri how can confuse park to the great johnny, watch the videos again =P

 

[Surri-Sama]

I think this same thing came up YEARS ago too. And I ended up still not knowing either way lol

 

[NixxxoN]

almost all the johnny vs isai vids, johnny can kinda keep up with isai and you notice that hes a very good player, while park gets ***** every game, its obvious that they are different players

 

[ballin4life]

Johnny = smashthugz = John

s2j's name is also johnny

park is totally different

 

[Surri-Sama]

lol alright. thanks

This better not ever come up again!

 

[Sempiternity]

Melee is definitely harder than 64. It's just so fast...

I like to be able to take a quick second to sip my tea after forward throwing with Falcon and then proceeding to continue my combo.

 

[Blade689]

I agree with Sempiternity. Melee is fast.... but my complaint is that the distance that you appear to be, doesn't have to be correct...... and with all the different ways to move, it adds complications and division of line-o-sight. Like.... if someone approaches from the left side, they can either roll down, or around, or back...... giving the potential to eliminate any sort of positioning in an instant....... I just don't like that.

 

[Sempiternity]

It's ridiculously complicated and technical, which is fantastic for a competitive scene, where you will get tons of different and unique styles. Like you said, there are also way more options than in the other Smash games in terms of movement, which makes it even more competitive. It's basically the perfect game for competition.

Which is what makes it harder and more aggravating to play...

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

all I do is grab in melee, SEEMS TO WORK.

 

[ballin4life]

Melee is not the perfect competitive game. Too tech skill heavy. Maybe if you eliminated l cancels or something.

I know this is kinda hypocritical on tech skill but QUAKE is the perfect competitive game.

 

[Sempiternity]

Melee is not the perfect competitive game. Too tech skill heavy. Maybe if you eliminated l cancels or something.

I know this is kinda hypocritical on tech skill but QUAKE is the perfect competitive game.

Well, I guess it depends on your definition of competitive. All that tech skill makes it competitive, because it makes it harder to get "good". I don't know how pros don't get carpal tunnel after playing a few games...

 

[NixxxoN]

melee is not the perfect competitive game, it takes waaay too much finger skills that some people would need a million years to learn properly... too fast paced in general

 

[ballin4life]

Competitive = competing against others. What makes a competitive game good is the competition with others, not the tech skill. Tech skill is just a barrier between you and the game (and thus your opponent).

More tech skill makes it harder to get good, but really, would melee be a better game if l cancels or wavedashes were harder to time? If instead of upB sideB etc you had to do quarter circle B (or worse) like in street fighter?

All these increase tech skill, but don't make the game better. If tech skill increases, it should be a byproduct of increasing options, not just for the sake of it. In many ways melee satisfies this, but it's not the tech skill that makes it good, and things like l cancels are totally ridiculous.

I will say that it seems like many people like tech skill because they can get good by practicing alone. Sure, the best players have great tech skill and great mindgames/knowledge/etc, but I think for a lot of the mid level players tech skill is a crutch. They like tech skill because it makes them think that they are good at the game because they can beat lower level players just by overwhelming them technically.

 

[DMoogle]

all I do is grab in melee, SEEMS TO WORK.

How ironic that Melee players always seem to complain about N64 grabs being too ridiculous.

 

[Surri-Sama]

The people who main marth dont complain about grabs in any game

 

[Sempiternity]

Competitive = competing against others. What makes a competitive game good is the competition with others, not the tech skill. Tech skill is just a barrier between you and the game (and thus your opponent).

More tech skill makes it harder to get good, but really, would melee be a better game if l cancels or wavedashes were harder to time? If instead of upB sideB etc you had to do quarter circle B (or worse) like in street fighter?

All these increase tech skill, but don't make the game better. If tech skill increases, it should be a byproduct of increasing options, not just for the sake of it. In many ways melee satisfies this, but it's not the tech skill that makes it good, and things like l cancels are totally ridiculous.

I will say that it seems like many people like tech skill because they can get good by practicing alone. Sure, the best players have great tech skill and great mindgames/knowledge/etc, but I think for a lot of the mid level players tech skill is a crutch. They like tech skill because it makes them think that they are good at the game because they can beat lower level players just by overwhelming them technically.

Never said tech makes Melee a better game. Just said it makes it more competitive. In one sense, competition derives from a game with set (simple?) conditions to abide by, making the game "fair" to all players. Brawl! It is easy to master the techniques given, and the rest of the competitive nature lies in players outwitting and outplaying each other.

Melee has all of this, but is competitive in a different sense in that there are so many skills to master (they don't necessarily make you good, but they can). This possibility allows players to come up with myriad different options and styles of play, making the game more diverse and forcing players to recognize new techniques and keep pace with them as other players learn and exploit them.

All I'm saying is that there are just so many facets to what should be a simple fighting game, making it much more complex.

Huh. Okay, I've realized what my definition of competitive is. It's all relative to skill level. Compare Melee to an Olympic sport or something that only the world's top athletes can get good at. There is a huge skill gap between these guys and everybody else, even if those other people are considered "very good" at the sport. Not just anybody can waltz in and compete, because they will be destroyed. To get to this level of Melee is an astounding feat.

I definitely do not see these skill gaps in games like Brawl because they're so dumbed down.

Bottom line: like you said, tech skill does make you better in some respects, allowing you to compete in higher levels of play. One should always strive toward the highest level, like working your way up the ladder. To me, that's competition.

I feel like this isn't making sense, because I can't think of a way to close it out. Oh well, I need to go learn Thermodynamics or something.

 

[ballin4life]

There is a pretty serious skill gap in brawl or m2k wouldn't win all those tournaments.

Melee's skill gap may be higher, but regardless I am saying that having a large skill gap for the wrong reasons (ridiculous tech skill) is a bad thing.

 

[asianaussie]

I once beat a competitive brawl player by spacing F-Airs and jabs with Ike. That was like my fourth time playing the game.

 

[The Star King]

In middle school, I beat a High School Senior who played competetive Brawl in a MK ditto after not touching the game for 8 months, and he claimed he "didn't warm up today".

 

[WOTG]

Does being a competitive player make you good or one of the best???

 

[Battlecow]

Do NOT purchase a gamepad or adapter for Mac. Gamepad support for all emulators is monopolized by this one guy who developed the software for it, and you will need to pay $30 to be able to use gamepads with emulators.

I learned this the hard way when getting a Genesis controller and emulators for my girlfriend...

However, the quick fix was installing Windows on a partition!

The mayflash adapter (The main one that people use that has 2 ports, is black and which, ironically enough, says "for PC USB" on the front) works on my old PowerPC.

 

[linkoninja]

I will say that it seems like many people like tech skill because they can get good by practicing alone. Sure, the best players have great tech skill and great mindgames/knowledge/etc, but I think for a lot of the mid level players tech skill is a crutch. They like tech skill because it makes them think that they are good at the game because they can beat lower level players just by overwhelming them technically.

Tech skill doesn't exactly make you good but tech skill is a MUST to be good. There is no such thing as good spacing and mindgames if you can't even short hop and l-cancel.

 

[asianaussie]

I can mindgame people using a wiimote in brawl, and I most certainly can't short hop consistently with a wiimote.

 

[Surri-Sama]

Lol dont use Brawl as an example

Use Smash64.

Say you can beat someone respectable without SH or Cancel

 

[linkoninja]

Lol dont use Brawl as an example

Use Smash64.

Say you can beat someone respectable without SH or Cancel

Agreed.
Cause I seriously don't see it happening. All the stages basically need SH and L-Cancel