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[Annex]

^ I don't know where that came from originally, but it isn't true.

Oh.
Well I heard it from Solo, and then I started using it a lot and it's been working.

 

[Han Solo]

I heard it from meowmeowrainbowkitty, and likewise, it seemed to work.

 

[mixa]

It didn't work for me because I suck at frame wars. You can jab with Fox all day that I won't ever win.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Not sure I follow you, are you having trouble Z-canceling Mario's Uair, or are you asking if the move has different properties regarding the Z-cancelling + shield buffer process?

Yes, this.

I can SH Dair Uair but it feels like I have the most success when I make a conscious effort to take my finger of the Z-trigger quickly. Also, it feels like I can't platform drop (Uairing very very close to the platform) using the conventional method, i.e. Z-cancel but keep the trigger pressed when you land and then shield drop.

An additional but related question: is there 'minimum height' at which you have to perform the aerial to be able to Z-cancel it (for any move) or is there theoretically no lower bound?

 

[Madao]

Is there 'minimum height' at which you have to perform the aerial to be able to Z-cancel it (for any move) or is there theoretically no lower bound?

The only scenario where you can't Z cancel is if you land on frame 1 of the aerial attack. Maybe frame 2 as well (can't remember sorry lol). It only matters on the timing of the landing, not necessarily the height (since different characters have different falling speeds).

 

[Tom Bombadil]

The only scenario where you can't Z cancel is if you land on frame 1 of the aerial attack. Maybe frame 2 as well (can't remember sorry lol). It only matters on the timing of the landing, not necessarily the height (since different characters have different falling speeds).

Excellent, thanks man.

What about my other question: does Mario's Uair in particular have different properties regarding the Z-cancelling and shield buffering process (compared to another aerial, Falcon's Bair, for example)?

 

[Madao]

Does Mario's Uair in particular have different properties regarding the Z-cancelling and shield buffering process (compared to another aerial, Falcon's Bair, for example)?

What differences are you looking for? I don't notice any difference in the z cancelling for Mario's Uair vs Falcon's Bair. The only real difference in each aerial attack afaik is the auto cancel frames. Attacks where the hitbox duration is short generally have a bigger auto cancel frame window, which means you don't need to Z cancel as often for quick aerial attacks.

 

[The Star King]

I've heard a lot of people express difficulty z-canceling Mario's uair, and I used to have that problem myself, before I got used to it. If people are having the same problem I had, it just seems like you have to press it a bit more in advance than usual, or no z-cancel will happen.

I kind of doubt it is different in terms of game mechanics, though. It's probably just an appearance thing. Like, it lands earlier than it appears it will.

 

[mixa]

It seems like there's something weird about Mario's Uair, but I didn't find anything with my tests. It's probably all in our heads.

About what Madao said, the reason you can't Z-cancel an aerial on its first frame is because there is no frame room for you to Z-cancel, or, the attack didn't come out. At least for Mario's Uair, that also means there won't be any lag [see (A) below], but if there's time for the attack's animation to start, then that means you are able to Z-cancel and that not Z-cancelling will cause lag.

Numbers below represent a countdown to landing in frames. Frame 0 is when you land:

(A)

2. <input Uair>​

1. frame delay​

0. ----------land = normal landing lag​

(B)

3. <input Uair>​

2. frame delay (Z-cancel window is 1 frame; this frame)​

1. Uair animation 1​

0. ----------land​

(C)

4. <input Uair>​

3. frame delay (Z-cancel #1)​

2. Uair animation 1 (Z-cancel #2)​

1. Uair animation 2​

0. ----------land​

Here is two pics of Mario, one falling normally, no inputs, and the other with a Uair. They will both land on the next frame.

[collapse=1, 2]

[/collapse]

I had taken this pics before when Bombadil first asked the question, but I didn't find them counterintuitive. Here they are anyway.

 

[Madao]

I don't think Mario's Uair is unusual (aside from maybe the animation?). I have no problem Z cancelling Mario's Uair, but maybe it's because I have a habit of randomly practicing Z cancelling whenever I'm testing stuff or even when my opponent is dead. My guess is that the animation can cause you to land at an irregular time. It is actually possible that this is the case.

 

[MCG]

An additional but related question: is there 'minimum height' at which you have to perform the aerial to be able to Z-cancel it (for any move) or is there theoretically no lower bound?

If you are using R for aerials, see this. It was the major reason why I couldn't Z-cancel Up-Airs.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Okay thanks for the info guys. This clears some things up. I'm just going to accept that Mario's Uair animation is awkward and that's where my difficulty lies. I feel like I can Bair very very close to the ground and still get the Z-cancel every time but with Mario's Uair I feel like some scrub who only learned to Z-cancel last week.

Anyways, thanks. I'll keep practicing.

EDIT: TO MCG, thanks man, I use Z but this was interesting

 

[Han Solo]

Is there some kind of precedence for button presses at the same time? For example when I'm Fox, and I'm going for a FF jumping nair off the ledge, sometimes the jump is not registered and I'll just nair to my death. It's not something I can reproduce easily on console, but it happens enough that I want to know if it's just me or the game.

 

[mixa]

I think there has to be, a priori, kinda like port priority

how do you press C and A at the same time anyway, don't you slide your thumb from C to A?

after tests:

B > A > C

so

A + C = A wins

disclaimer: maybe this is because of my keyboard, like how the arrow → has priority over ←

edit: B > A > C works for Hori too.

 

[HarryTheChin]

Is there any possible way to play 64 online off of Wii VC?

I recently purchased it and would like to put it to good use...

EDIT: Also because I prefer playing on a GC controller.

 

[Cobrevolution]

i don't believe so? could be wrong, though.

should've spent the money on a raphnet or something so you could play on your computer via kaillera

 

[Han Solo]

mixa, I use R to aerial.

 

[Sangoku]

Then press it after "c" with the same timing as a jab grab, that way it's really fast, but never on the same frame and you will jump everytime.

 

[mixa]

mixa, I use R to aerial.

It always escapes me that possibility.

Well then, to answer your question: R takes precedence over C as well.

 

[mixa]

I'm having a recurring problem with Mupen rr. Can anyone think of anything?

Every now and then -- and nowadays every 10 minutes -- I'll load the emulator and it won't pop up, instead it will stay on the taskbar, as if minimized. I'll click it and it does nothing.

I delete everything but the save files and joystick inputs, unzip it again from the original zip file, transfer the folders I kept. It works.
Then all of a sudden the problem I described takes place again. What the hell?

 

[Sangoku]

Are you using a second screen sometimes?

 

[mixa]

I'm gonna guess second screen is having two monitors connected to the same computer. If that's correct, no, I'm not.

 

[M!nt]

when it does that can you get to it with alt tab?

also it might be offscreen try rightclicking it in the task bar and clicking move, dont move your mouse and moving it with arrow keys.

 

[Sangoku]

I'm gonna guess second screen is having two monitors connected to the same computer. If that's correct, no, I'm not.

Oh "second screen" is not correct?

And yeah I used to have that systematically once, I had to do what M!nt said everytime (right click -> move).

 

[Madao]

I'm having a recurring problem with Mupen rr. Can anyone think of anything?

Every now and then -- and nowadays every 10 minutes -- I'll load the emulator and it won't pop up, instead it will stay on the taskbar, as if minimized. I'll click it and it does nothing.

I delete everything but the save files and joystick inputs, unzip it again from the original zip file, transfer the folders I kept. It works.
Then all of a sudden the problem I described takes place again. What the hell?

I believe this happens to me as well. Sometimes out of nowhere it won't open, and is stuck minimized. The fix for it is to edit the cfg file. If I remember correctly, for me the width and height would be the wrong number.

 

[mixa]

Thanks for the response.

Well, I had used my old fix to finish something earlier and now I'm trying to trigger the problem again to test the stuff you guys are proposing lol.

Sangoku, I have no idea if that's incorrect or not. I know nothing about that stuff. Sorry if I came off as entitled or something.

Alt + Tab didn't work at the time. I remember right-clicking it on the taskbar and I don't remember any "move" option... huh

While we're at it,
Madao, do you know what do I have to change to make in the cfg file to make it so when I load the game, the default save state is some other than 0? I don't know how save stating in slot 0 is useful, I can't load slot 0.

 

[Madao]

While we're at it,
Madao, do you know what do I have to change to make in the cfg file to make it so when I load the game, the default save state is some other than 0? I don't know how save stating in slot 0 is useful, I can't load slot 0.

I didn't see anything on save state settings unfortunately. Why can't you load slot 0? The only time I had save state issues was when I switched roms (due to the old one making Falcon's leg look messed up). Maybe you could try renaming a different save state as slot 0? To see if slot 0 was corrupted or something.

 

[mixa]

Why can't you load slot 0?

I load save states hitting F1 for save state 1, F2 for save state 2, etc. And there isn't an F0 for save state 0. It's not even in the menu for me to select: http://gyazo.com/3cbebf4dda9bf16578adb7dea9600fdd.png

 

[Madao]

I think Save state 1 is st0, at least for me it is. In my save folder I only see st0 and st7 lol.

 

[Sangoku]

I believe this happens to me as well. Sometimes out of nowhere it won't open, and is stuck minimized. The fix for it is to edit the cfg file. If I remember correctly, for me the width and height would be the wrong number.

Oh now that you mention it, I remember having to change that cfg file back then.

Sangoku, I have no idea if that's incorrect or not. I know nothing about that stuff. Sorry if I came off as entitled or something.

Nah don't worry. A lot of things I say are translated directly from French, so I wouldn't be too surprised if I make many mistakes (like malus haha).

 

[SSBPete]

a few things I'm curious about:

does yoshis shield hurtbox extend past his normal standing hurtbox? if so could I dash towards the pirhana on mk and parry with the edge of my shield before the pirhana hits me?

and does yoshis dash shield slide? it's quite noticable on faster characters such as falcon but does it happen on a miniscule scale for yoshi?

 

[Sangoku]

1) The egg is slightly larger than Yoshi's body.

2) However, Yoshi's most forward point is his head, not his body. So to know if you can run and parry the piranha you'd need to know if Yoshi's head goes forward from the last frame of dash and the first frame of parry (green invincible frame, not shield), which is not the case (even a bit the contrary, he slightly retracts his head).

3) He does side slightly. From the first green frame (which would correspond to the first frame of shield for other characters in terms of timing, ie 2 frames after z is input) to his final shielding position, he travels a distance of 128. In comparison, Captain Falcon travels 286 (same timing, from his first shield frame to his final position).

 

[greenblob]

I'm thinking of coming back after 5(?) years of hiatus. So I went on Kaillera and tried to get a few matches going. Except everyone has a different connection type now? I remember everyone using "good" back when I played ... Speaking of everyone, where did they all go? I'd expect more than 25 people on the most crowded NA Smash server. For the most part it seems like the people who are still there kinda suck, too. And it seems like desynchs and lag-outs are happening quite more frequently than I remember.

Is there anything I'm missing? Does everyone use P2P now (it just started gaining popularity when I quit)? How do people find P2P matches (I kinda avoided them because I just wanted to hop on and play a few games)?

 

[Cobrevolution]

use LAN. go to smash FU. if you want p2p then join the skype group where a lot of people ask for matches (though depending on who's talking you may or may not get one)

uhhh add me i guess on skype (facebook:robstone or something like that) and i'll invite you to the group

 

[SSBPete]

thanks for the amazingly detailed response sangoku!

 

[Cobrevolution]

when it comes to reverse knockback, how much stronger is it? is there some kind of a formula? we know for a fact, for instance, that falcon's reverse uair (the horizontal tipper, i call it reverse because **** off) has more knockback than the regular one as well as the weird 45 degree angle that occurs when you're facing them and they go forward instead of up.

i looked at mixa's thing about samus's hi fsmash killing pika when pika's at 61 under the middle plat on dL going right, and i was wondering if i hit him with a dair when he was at like 56 instead of 61, but i hit a reverse hi angled fsmash, would it kill?

this is the most difficult thing to pull off, probably, but i find reverse bair easier, though i sometimes opt for the regular one because of where i am on the map.

 

[Sangoku]

I don't think a reverse attack has any difference in knockback. Falcon's uair is weird and maybe 1) it's a different hitbox or 2) it's only an impression that the opponent has more knockback, due to the fact he goes horizontally. Anyway I'm almost sure you wouldn't gain anything from doing a reverse fsmash with Samus.

 

[The Star King]

Yeah Falcon tipper uair isn't a normal reverse attack like a reverse Samus FSmash is, dude. It's a different hitbox during a different part of the attack.

Reverse attacks just reflect the angle of knockback. Like, if you compare Samus FSmash to reverse Samus FSmash, they're gonna have the same angle to the ground, but just opposite directions. Falcon tipper uair clearly doesn't do that compared to normal Falcon uair.

*actual* reverse Falcon uair (angle points slightly behind him instead of slightly in front of him):

 

[Madao]

I don't think a reverse attack has any difference in knockback. Falcon's uair is weird and maybe 1) it's a different hitbox or 2) it's only an impression that the opponent has more knockback, due to the fact he goes horizontally. Anyway I'm almost sure you wouldn't gain anything from doing a reverse fsmash with Samus.

You're right, Falcon's uair just has different angles.

Lol why don't you guys use that spreadsheet Toomai made? It's quite useful to compare things. Like I didn't know Falcon's aerial falcon punch has a bigger hitbox. Also it has a lot of valuable frame data on there.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

That first image star king, wat