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clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
Felt like I had a better chance to perform better on hyrule tbh. I knew I wouldn't be able to get inside him and I wanted room to run away and pew pew.

When you play someone who completely outclasses you, hyrule can be the better choice even when character matchups would say otherwise because you have more breathing room against pressure.
 

mixa

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
2,005
Location
Isle of ゆぅ
yeah, i think it's kinda dumb how often congo is played only in the first game but no one really cps it

zebes has great lighting, congo sucks at that department. hard
 

Yobolight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 13, 2012
Messages
1,126
Is it possible to DI Foxes lasers?

Why is it so hard to ledge DI against Kirby's Dtilt?
 

B Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
1,579
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Does anyone else get the following problem?

On emulator, at hyrule, fox rarely does a high enough short hop aerial to get from the left platform to the middle platform when right at the wall. I did it once with fair but it was probably luck. However, on console, my short hop heights vary much more easily, allowing me to get to that middle platform on demand. I was practicing some movement on emulator and I was like wtf when I couldn't get to the middle platform lol

For now I'm going to assume that console has superior sensitivity regarding short hop height control.
 

mixa

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 6, 2012
Messages
2,005
Location
Isle of ゆぅ
To me (kb) this is simply the difference between SHing while holding any horizontal direction (gives low SH) and
just pressing the SH and then moving the joystick (gives high SH).

I've always thought that when players did such movement, that they let go of the stick momentarily.
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Yeah, it's just the difference between the normal (standing) short hop and the lower short hop (inputting a direction the frame the characters leaves the ground).
 

B Link

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 26, 2007
Messages
1,579
Location
Toronto, Ontario
Yeah, it's just the difference between the normal (standing) short hop and the lower short hop (inputting a direction the frame the characters leaves the ground).
Seems like emulator is different though

EDIT: Ok so on emulator I have to wait for my character to go more up before going right, whereas on console I can just hold right-ish and fox will get there easily. Guess it's just a sensitivity difference. It might also be my loose controller stick lol
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
if you are using the c button to shop, pretty sure your jump is going to be the same height on console and on emulator.

What could be different is your stick sensitivity, so maybe your stick sensitivity on emulator is lower than the normal console sensitivity, thus you have to push further
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
Seems like emulator is different though

EDIT: Ok so on emulator I have to wait for my character to go more up before going right, whereas on console I can just hold right-ish and fox will get there easily. Guess it's just a sensitivity difference. It might also be my loose controller stick lol
This probably means your range on emulator is higher.
 

LongDong

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 14, 2012
Messages
13
Whenever you want to jump higher.

edit:nvm the rest
Not quite understanding your edit. Currently the way I play is I use yellow buttons when jumping out of shield, trying to escape a bad situation, or when initiating an attack via short hop. I'll use my joy stick when I'm moving in the same direction as the attack I want to do (i.e. fox uair). There's plenty of other situations to use one of the other and wondered if one was typically more appropriate than the other.
 

breakthrough

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
304
Location
West Chester, PA
Not quite understanding your edit. Currently the way I play is I use yellow buttons when jumping out of shield, trying to escape a bad situation, or when initiating an attack via short hop. I'll use my joy stick when I'm moving in the same direction as the attack I want to do (i.e. fox uair). There's plenty of other situations to use one of the other and wondered if one was typically more appropriate than the other.
The first example of using stick jump often is in Break the Targets and Board the Platforms, they make certain heights easier to achieve. An example is stick jumping for Yoshi's BtT so you reach the 2nd plat at the start. Another is stick jumping for Luigi's BtT off of the yellow/black moving object to get the uair on the target and land for a jab on the very top right target.

When my brother plays as Luigi, he does a running stick jump uair at you to try and get an easy upb because he feels that it comes out faster than a c button jump.
 

Illuminatus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
13
Hi, i'm pretty new here on the forums, but not at all new to smash. I've been playing 64 for a long time and i'm at a decent skill level, having already mastered z-canceling and all that good stuff pretty well.

My dilemma is this: I've developed the odd habit of jumping using the right C-button instead of the left.

As a fox main I have found this to make SHDL's considerably harder, and Multi-shining all but impossible. I can still put out SHDL's about 50% of the time, so its not all that limiting.

So my question is, do you guys think it is worth it to re-train myself to use the left C-button instead? Are there any other techniques that switching over will help me with? Help would be appreciated.
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Hmm I think you can simply use the left c only when you need to slide, ie for SHDL and Shine. I know I (and probably others too) use the down c button to jump, except when I need to slide from C to B.
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
Not quite understanding your edit. Currently the way I play is I use yellow buttons when jumping out of shield, trying to escape a bad situation, or when initiating an attack via short hop. I'll use my joy stick when I'm moving in the same direction as the attack I want to do (i.e. fox uair). There's plenty of other situations to use one of the other and wondered if one was typically more appropriate than the other.
Using the stick to do uairs just because it's easier is probably a bad long term strategy. There are many situations in combo's where you would want to do a button shop uair instead, so you should really be able to use both methods and then use whichever is most useful in the situation. Example as falcon off of fthrow, you would want a shop uair, not a full hop uair, so button shop is best.

@illuminatus, YES absolutely stop using right-C. No reason to use it unless you are sliding from right-C to down-C for ness's djc. Use down-C in most situations, except when you are going to use the B button (lasers, shines, etc.).
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
Han that's because you only ever shoot lasers and shine

wutevs, use either left c or down c for sure. Whatever is best for you
 

clubbadubba

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Messages
4,086
More like, how do you shop double uair with falcon using Left C. Go on, somebody do it, I ****ing dare you.
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
uh....the dair lasts forever, the uair is timing

go ahead infract on facts.
The difficult part is being quick between the jump and the dair. Your post doesn't make sense, deserves an infraction.

More like, how do you shop double uair with falcon using Left C. Go on, somebody do it, I ****ing dare you.
I do that with R anyway lol.

NINJA'D BY THE COBRA D:
Deserves an infraction for that too.
 

Illuminatus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
13
@illuminatus, YES absolutely stop using right-C. No reason to use it unless you are sliding from right-C to down-C for ness's djc. Use down-C in most situations, except when you are going to use the B button (lasers, shines, etc.).
Why do you prefer down-C over left-C? Just a matter of taste?
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
Down C or left C doesn't really matter per se. Down C is more useful when you need quick short hops aerial A attacks (Mario's short hop double aerial, pikachu's short hop double aerial, etc.) and left C is more useful when you need quick short hop aerial B attacks (Fox's shdl and laser).
 

Illuminatus

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 12, 2013
Messages
13
So then is it common for people use both buttons depending on whether theyre gonna throw: an aerial or laser? Or do they usually just play with only one button and just deal with it?
 

Sangoku

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
3,931
Location
Geneva, Switzerland
I personally use both, according to the situation. And I use right C when double jumping with Ness (sliding from right C to down C to A).
 

kys

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 17, 2009
Messages
660
Location
World Traveler
There are some people who claim their wifi works just fine (kys I believe), but the I would say most people who play on wifi have this issue.
I've never had a problem with wifi. But to be clear I do have good internet, a good router, and my computer is 3 feet away. A wired connection is obviously better.

Ugh I got to this thread late. Whoever the dude is complaining about the sudden ping spikes and whatnot, it's usually a case of your ISP in heavy traffic hours. That's what they told me because I've had that problem consistently for the last couple of years and contacted them. There's nothing you can do.

I counterpick to Congo. I've hardly ever played in any tournaments but my Falcon has considerable more success on Congo than on any other stage. In some online serious friendlies it's been the difference between me getting 3 stocked and me doing the 4 stocking. Granted it could be an experience thing, because I do better on Congo with everyone, it's just that Falcon is more noticeable.

I've never used stick hopping (range issues with cheap xbox controllers) and I only use down-c for jumping. Don't play a gay character like Fox and you'll never need left-c.
 

SuPeRbOoM

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
4,509
Location
Edmonton, Alberta
it's not good internet if you're having connection conjestion, and this usually only happens with CABLE cause sucks sucks(hub-like system LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL)
 

Roboplodicus

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
36
Location
San Diego, CA, USA, Planet Earth
Can someone walk me through how to play online with pj64 through google chat, I tried watching KniteFox's video but I'm still having trouble. My Google Name is EonOfNeon(@gmail.com) just message me or email me for when we can set up a time to do this.
 

KnitePhox

Smash Lord
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
1,838
Location
Chicago, IL
Can someone walk me through how to play online with pj64 through google chat, I tried watching KniteFox's video but I'm still having trouble. My Google Name is EonOfNeon(@gmail.com) just message me or email me for when we can set up a time to do this.
everyone is on skype, add me on skype name search: knitephox

i tried setting up google chat like 2 weeks ago at a crucial moment that was time sensitive but it was a huge pain in the ass and i never got it to work then lost the info i needed at the moment; i have nothing to do at the moment for about 20mins so ill see if i can set it up.

though you should know, MANY smash64 players are in a huge skype group chat where we setup games and talk about life
 

breakthrough

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 12, 2013
Messages
304
Location
West Chester, PA
I don't really know how to best explain this question, but, how do you read other people's play and punish it? Like, what is the thought process behind some of the top players in the community when reading their opponents? I've worked on my tech really hard recently but the biggest thing I lack at the moment is reading my opponent and learning how to punish it. I'm too aggressive and get punished because I don't read and change up my playstyle mid game.

Some stuff I've heard when asking this question:
Cobr said to watch how your opponent recovers (i.e. a pikachu constantly upb'ing to the top plat on DL, so he would run at them towards the stage to fake it then go to where they usually recover)
When playing Weedwack in some friendlies before Thanks for Playing 2 he noticed that I would do the same move repeatedly as a way to space and he would adjust and punish accordingly.
Lastly, when playing Shears in friendlies he told me how he changed his playstyle mid-match and began to use dtilt as a way to space an aggressive approach at him last night, and it worked.

Not sure if my question is too broad to be answered or not but some serious responses would be appreciated.
 

The Star King

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 6, 2007
Messages
9,681
All the people you talked to are correct in their piece of the puzzle. It's simply just watching your opponent and taking mental notes on what sort of things they like to do. How they recover, how they tech, how they escape danger, how they DI, how they edgeguard, what they do in neutral game (this one is big IMO - take a look at what weedwack said), etc. And as you notice them doing a certain thing, you can try to punish it, and you will learn what works against certain actions and what does not. So not only do you have to learn to notice people's patterns, but you have to learn how to defeat the patterns that you observe, which will come with experience and experimentation. Sometimes it may be difficult to punish a certain action even if you know exactly what they're going to do.

This next part is talking more about how to improve reading opposed to how to read, but...

Bear with me, but if you've ever taken a Psychology class, you may have learned about the "hidden observer" of your mind. An example is driving. A lot of times your "conscious" mind will be thinking about things completely unrelated, and you aren't even consciously paying attention to the road, and yet you can drive just fine. It's like another person is doing it for you. Your autopilot.

Well, you can come to the point where your "hidden observer" automatically takes in information about your opponent without you even thinking about it. For me, I often know what my opponent is going to do a lot of the time after a game or two (especially worse players), even if it feels like I barely payed attention.

But you will probably have to consciously observe at first. Don't be lazy, and consciously force yourself to take mental notes on your opponent's habits in as many friendlies as possible, especially vs people nearish to your skill level. And the more you go out of your way to do it consciously, the better you'll be at it automatically (I have gotten pretty lazy with this and play on autopilot most of the time these days, but I used to make myself do this a lot).

And when I consciously read these days, it's like, my hidden observer is still helpful - because I consciously notice some things, but my hidden observer notices some other things without my realizing. They work in conjunction to take in more information than I could just consciously. Kind of sounds weird when I put it in words but yeah.

OK I probably went a little overboard there because the bottom line is "practice reading consciously", which seems pretty obvious. Didn't really need to explain the result. But IDK, as obvious as it seems, there's a lot of people in this community, where I literally punish the same thing over and over the same way and they keep doing it. So it feels like a lot of people play on autopilot all the time and never improve their reading ability. They try to improve their combos, edgeguards, tech skill, whatever, but not their reading. Reading is a skill like any other and requires practice to improve.

Dunno how helpful this will be but I tried, so yeah, good luck.
 
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