Ask a Question, Get an Answer Thread~[Read Before Asking a Question]

[Sedda]

Yeah I just have problems when a hit I thought was going to land doesn't, so I'll just work at it. Thanks guys

 

[B Link]

How do you do the ultimate glitch? I get to the crate part but the crates only make pathetically small explosions and don't make a black hole

This is a serious post

 

[BlackL1ght]

This has probably been answered before, but I don't have the time to read this 174 page thread.

What is z-cancelling and how is it accomplished? What is it useful for and is it essential to advanced play?

 

[bloodpeach]

This has probably been answered before, but I don't have the time to read this 174 page thread.

What is z-cancelling and how is it accomplished? What is it useful for and is it essential to advanced play?

http://www.smashboards.com/threads/...o-do-something-terms-and-advanced-tech.80690/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=d7B1B5yoHAw#t=48s

It's very important.

 

[Pooncahontas]

What recording devices do people use to capture console Smash?

Anybody know what Isai / Chain-Ace / TANK / Solo / others who record use.

I assume it's just a capture card, but if so which one?

 

[clubbadubba]

I know a few people who just record using blank vhs tapes (tank is one of those). I don't know how to convert from there though

 

[bloodpeach]

I use something like this: http://www.amazon.com/EasyCAP-DC60-Creator-Capture-High-quality/dp/B002H3BSCM
You can use it to convert VHS to digital video too.

 

[Han Solo]

I use this.

http://www.amazon.com/Diamond-VC500...=Diamond+VC500+One+Touch+Video+Capture+Device

It's pretty good as long as you use the default settings. The recording gets messed up if you change the video output format in my experience.

 

[tgn0010]

From The Thread Nobody Reads:

3.3.2 To perform a Uair without jumping, there are several cases.
---On keyboard, your only possibility (except from buffering) is pressing up and "A" on the exact same frame.

Is this actually possible to do on a consistent basis? I have been working on it for a while now and it still only seems to happen about 20% of the time. I'm curious to know how long it took for some of the kb players to master this...

 

[mixa]

If I understand what this is about, it's the kind of tech skill that I'm so far away from getting 50%, that I know I'll never master it / count on it in battle.

 

[KoRoBeNiKi]

When I do need to use a sh u-air, I buffer it instead of the other way

 

[Sangoku]

I have a question I've been wondering for some times and I have never figured it out. What makes Fox turn around at the end of his UpB when doing it completely vertical? I've done it several times on accident, but I haven't been able to reproduce it consciously. It's probably not a weird angle or anything, because I just did it (accidentally, which lead me to finally ask here) on keyboard. I jumped and laser, then UpBed vertically and he turned around at the peak of the jump. I was recovering left (from the right of the stage). I've tried re-doing it and it didn't work.

 

[B Link]

^Yeah I can only do it by accident lol

I have a feeling that it has to do with inputting a direction during the upB but that's all I know

C'mon Sangoku you're the TAS guy you should have solved this easily

 

[Sangoku]

I've also thought it was something about inputting a direction. But I was surprised to see I was holding up all along (and on kb so I'm sure I really was inputting up) and he still turned around.

Yeah maybe I wasn't supposed to ask lol. But I thought if someone could hint me to something I could investigate in more depth. Because I have no idea where to start as of now.

Anyway if nobody knows and I come up with something I'll keep you informed.

 

[MrMarbles]

I have a question I've been wondering for some times and I have never figured it out. What makes Fox turn around at the end of his UpB when doing it completely vertical? I've done it several times on accident, but I haven't been able to reproduce it consciously. It's probably not a weird angle or anything, because I just did it (accidentally, which lead me to finally ask here) on keyboard. I jumped and laser, then UpBed vertically and he turned around at the peak of the jump. I was recovering left (from the right of the stage). I've tried re-doing it and it didn't work.

i feel like if there's a question that you don't know the answer to then all hope is lost

 

[mixa]

wut, you managed to make him turn in the air? o: (edit: nvm you were recovering)

I've always thought it was when you go vertical towards the stage while vertically aligned with the edge. At least with that knowledge I was never surprised when he turned around. I thought everyone thought this too(?)
I made this video on my first try, so it seems to work on DL, on Saffron/Hyrule is a bit weirder I'd guess.

http://youtu.be/Ah4duEmfXXE

first 3 times I let go of the edge with ← (left) = I don't turnaround because I'm not aligned with the edge.

next 3 times I let go of the edge with ↓ (down/fast fall) = I turnaround because I'm aligned with the edge.

last time I let go with ← (left) but tap → to get aligned = I turn around

 

[Sangoku]

i feel like if there's a question that you don't know the answer to then all hope is lost

I don't know more about the game than any decent player.

wut, you managed to make him turn in the air? o: (edit: nvm you were recovering)

You can with a shine anyway.

I've always thought it was when you go vertical towards the stage while vertically aligned with the edge. At least with that knowledge I was never surprised when he turned around. I thought everyone thought this too(?)
I made this video on my first try, so it seems to work on DL, on Saffron/Hyrule is a bit weirder I'd guess.

http://youtu.be/Ah4duEmfXXE

first 3 times I let go of the edge with ← (left) = I don't turnaround because I'm not aligned with the edge.

next 3 times I let go of the edge with ↓ (down/fast fall) = I turnaround because I'm aligned with the edge.

last time I let go with ← (left) but tap → to get aligned = I turn around

Thanks a lot, that's what I was talking about. It's really a weird thing because it doesn't really work if you let go with left, double jump toward the wall, then UpB.

 

[mixa]

Does anyone know if there are other consequences of those slightly slanted surfaces (right side of Hyrule, Saffron's heliport) besides Fox not being able to get the hitbox out of his shine cancel when running?

 

[breakthrough]

So I'm not 100% sure about all these but I've heard there are a few aerial attacks which don't need to be z-cancelled. The ones I've heard of so far are Pikachu's Uair, and Ness' Uair and Dair. Does anybody have a list of the moves that dont need to be cancelled? For Ness' aerial attacks to auto cancel, does it have to be after the 2nd jump like from a DJC? Why don't you have to z-cancel some of these moves? (Especially Pikachu's uair)

 

[Sangoku]

There's also Jigglypuff's Dair, but that's for another reason.

Pikachu's Uair, Ness' Uair and Dair are aerial attacks that have no lag (don't ask me why though), therefore it is useless to z-cancel them. It also means DJCing or not doesn't matter, it's really a property of these attacks.

Jigglypuff's Dair, if not z-cancelled provides an extra hit which pops the opponent in the air a little and the extra hitstun from that hit is longer than the lag of the move, so it's overall better. That's why it shouldn't be cancelled either.

 

[mixa]

I was suspicious of Jiggs' Dair. But I can't frame advance, so thanks for that. And lol that's why I never got the pop-up hit.

By the way, if you fast fall -> Dair and don't z-cancel, will you get the same result in terms of lag?

 

[breakthrough]

There's also Jigglypuff's Dair, but that's for another reason.

Pikachu's Uair, Ness' Uair and Dair are aerial attacks that have no lag (don't ask me why though), therefore it is useless to z-cancel them. It also means DJCing or not doesn't matter, it's really a property of these attacks.

Jigglypuff's Dair, if not z-cancelled provides an extra hit which pops the opponent in the air a little and the extra hitstun from that hit is longer than the lag of the move, so it's overall better. That's why it shouldn't be cancelled either.

Great reply and explanation. As long as it's confirmed that they don't require z-cancelling I don't really need to know why, although it would be interesting. Very cool bit about Jigg's dair, awesome how we have so much access to frame by frame data which can tell us things like that.

 

[Battlecow]

That doesn't come from frame data that's just something you notice when you miss the z-cancel

but yeah

 

[breakthrough]

Jigglypuff's Dair, if not z-cancelled provides an extra hit which pops the opponent in the air a little and the extra hitstun from that hit is longer than the lag of the move, so it's overall better. That's why it shouldn't be cancelled either.

Assuming Sangoku has tested this out, it sounds like without the frame data you wouldn't know whether the extra hitstun is longer than the lag of the move with 100% certainty if you weren't watching frame data.

 

[Sangoku]

Well you can be sure by the fact you feel you have an easier time comboing/can link more attacks. I could also test it out frame by frame if you still have a doubt, but I'm sure everybody knows it by experience.

 

[The Star King]

I have a question I've been wondering for some times and I have never figured it out. What makes Fox turn around at the end of his UpB when doing it completely vertical? I've done it several times on accident, but I haven't been able to reproduce it consciously. It's probably not a weird angle or anything, because I just did it (accidentally, which lead me to finally ask here) on keyboard. I jumped and laser, then UpBed vertically and he turned around at the peak of the jump. I was recovering left (from the right of the stage). I've tried re-doing it and it didn't work.

It happens when you hit a wall.

 

[gettysburg11]

Hi everyone,

First of all I'm sorry if anything I ask has already been said, but I don't have the time right now to sift through 174 pages of info. I'll probably be able to at some point, but not right now.

I've got a bunch of questions, so if you can answer any of them I'd greatly appreciate it.

1. I'm pretty much brand new to playing this game with any kind of competitive aspect, and I'm not really that great at the series in general. I want to know what basics I should get down before I try to do anything advanced. What kind of things should I work on?

2. How can I properly practice on my own? None of my friends play this game and I'd rather not do anything illegal to play online.

3. I have Mario set as my main character for under my posts, but I also like playing with Pikachu, Kirby, and Captain Falcon. Should I make up my mind and go for one of them or can I try to learn a couple different characters?

4. Why is the stage list the way it is? I thought Yoshi's Island would be an option, not that I'm mad that it isn't but I'm just curious as to the reasoning. Is it the clouds or something else?

Again, sorry for the possible repeats, but I'd be grateful for any help you could give me!

 

[Olikus]

1. Well the basics you should do first is a bit advanced unfortunately. z-cancel, shorthop, fastfall, pivot, dashdance, stop rolling allot etc.

2. Its not to reccomend not playing with friends or online. Its really hard to get good without playing humans. Cpus are stupid. Your best shot would be practising techskill in training mode, but it will only take you to some level.

3. To begin with its good to play several caractehrs. That will get you a better understanding about the game. When you know all the caracthers hitboxes, advantages, and disadvantages, you might want to focus on 1-3 caracthers. Many try to pick caracthers theyr best at, and same time have fun with, but its up to you which one of those you will focus on.

4. The stage list is under discussion atm. However yoshi is not considered. And yeah its becasue of the clouds that makes camping a big problem on that stage.

 

[gettysburg11]

1. Well the basics you should do first is a bit advanced unfortunately. z-cancel, shorthop, fastfall, pivot, dashdance, stop rolling allot etc.

2. Its not to reccomend not playing with friends or online. Its really hard to get good without playing humans. Cpus are stupid. Your best shot would be practising techskill in training mode, but it will only take you to some level.

3. To begin with its good to play several caractehrs. That will get you a better understanding about the game. When you know all the caracthers hitboxes, advantages, and disadvantages, you might want to focus on 1-3 caracthers. Many try to pick caracthers theyr best at, and same time have fun with, but its up to you which one of those you will focus on.

4. The stage list is under discussion atm. However yoshi is not considered. And yeah its becasue of the clouds that makes camping a big problem on that stage.

OK, thanks for the response! Is there a topic around here somewhere that talks about all those techniques? And maybe I just have to get some friends into this, they play Melee and Brawl but not the original.

 

[Olikus]

I think you might find something here http://smashboards.com/threads/smas...lay-etc-star-king-more-like-dirk-king.262536/

basically z-canceling is to cancel your lag from aerial moves. You just press z-before you land on the ground and the lag will disapear. Its easiest to see on link downair.(press A and joystick downards at the same time).

shorthop is either tap the c-buttons very lightly, or slide it without pressing it all the way down. And then you jump shorter than if you press the c-buttons all the way.

I think you should start with those two, and see if you manage them after a while.

 

[gettysburg11]

I think you might find something here http://smashboards.com/threads/smas...lay-etc-star-king-more-like-dirk-king.262536/

basically z-canceling is to cancel your lag from aerial moves. You just press z-before you land on the ground and the lag will disapear. Its easiest to see on link downair.(press A and joystick downards at the same time).

shorthop is either tap the c-buttons very lightly, or slide it without pressing it all the way down. And then you jump shorter than if you press the c-buttons all the way.

I think you should start with those two, and see if you manage them after a while.

Is that with a Gamecube controller or a classic controller? I use Gamecube, so I just want to make sure I'm getting it right.

 

[Sangoku]

In addition to what Olikus said:

1) You can watch tutorials for advanced techniques, for example these:
-part 1
-part 2
-part 3
-part 4

Concerning the basic stuff, as long as you understand all the moveset and you know how to recover (understand the second jump+Upb) you'll be fine. Oh and if you're not familiar with the terminology, you can read this old thread. Some things might be outdated (like who says "ANA" nowadays?), but the basis is there.

Once you get passed that point, there are a few more things, some character specific, some general, like DI. Concerning the latter you can watch a video I made. I'd recommend you forget about DI in the beginning though. And if you have questions about specific characters, ask in here if you don't find the info in other threads linked in the smash index.

2) You can practice on your own, as Olikus said with training mode combos, but you'll never get so good by yourself. The best way to improve is to play online and I don't see why you have a problem with the legality of it. The only illegal part is finding the ROM (depending on the country, in Switzerland it's legal to download thing as long as you don't share) and I'm sure Nintendo/Sakurai/whoever don't give a **** about dudes downloading the ROM to play such an old game online. On the contrary, they'd probably be happy to know we're still playing this game with so much dedication. Playing CPU is not too recommended either, because things that work against real player don't work against them and things that work against CPU don't work against real player. Conclusion is you'll most likely only acquire bad habits. You can however practice some things such as combos/DI/z-cancel/other advanced techs, but don't try to win by every mean possible. Some good way to improve as a beginner is watching vids of pros and trying to do what they do (not too pro, because they'll often go for flashy stuff which is too hard to start off with).

3) I agree with Olikus that playing a lot of characters will help you have a better feel about the game's mechanics, however, if you're already familiar with the game, focusing on one char will help you improve faster in the beginning (doesn't mean playing only said char). That's my opinion, I know others may think otherwise.

4) Yeah the clouds allow too much camping.

5) All the terms and buttons refer to the original n64 controller. So if we say "Z", we mean the shield button, whatever that is for your controller.

 

[gettysburg11]

The best way to improve is to play online and I don't see why you have a problem with the legality of it. The only illegal part is finding the ROM (depending on the country, in Switzerland it's legal to download thing as long as you don't share) and I'm sure Nintendo/Sakurai/whoever don't give a **** about dudes downloading the ROM to play such an old game online.

I don't know, it just wouldn't feel right to me. Probably sounds pretty stupid, but I don't know. Thanks for everything else though!

 

[rjgbadger]

i thought if you owned the game itself in WASN'T illegal to emulate it?

 

[Sangoku]

Depends on the country, once again. But in countries where downloading is illegal, I'd say it's still illegal to download the game. You should make your own copy of the ROM.

Anyway, it is very bizarre not to play on emulator for that reason, but we'll respect gettysburg's decision.

 

[Battlecow]

Yeah, it's technically illegal

If that's all that's stopping you learn how to rip your own ROM and you're good

 

[mixa]

Very bizarre.
Do you guys think 24 hours is enough to hook someone up in competitive smash 4ever?
We could use that You need to delete your ROM in 24h made up rule to try that.

 

[Battlecow]

This guy better not ****ing jaywalk

HE BETTER NOT

 

[gettysburg11]

Yeah, I'm just weird I guess. I don't know, I'll do some more reading around over the next couple weeks and think on it if that's OK.

 

[jimmyjoe]

So I'm not 100% sure about all these but I've heard there are a few aerial attacks which don't need to be z-cancelled. The ones I've heard of so far are Pikachu's Uair, and Ness' Uair and Dair. Does anybody have a list of the moves that dont need to be cancelled? For Ness' aerial attacks to auto cancel, does it have to be after the 2nd jump like from a DJC? Why don't you have to z-cancel some of these moves? (Especially Pikachu's uair)

Besides the ones people already mentioned, it's worth noting that kirby's DAir has an extra hit with some slight horizontal knockback if you don't z-cancel it. You end up with a trade-off, maybe for the worse in most situations, because it has a bunch of ending lag(unlike jiggly's), but you may find that it has some practical applications.