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[#HBC | ѕoup]

xbox 360 wired

i'll try that

see what's odd is that i can do uair shield-drops and shuairs consistently just slightly holding the stick up but when i ff it just wants to dair

 

[Sangoku]

Oh then I'm not sure. I use a 64 controller and I prefer having deadzone lower, but I know some xbox 360 users have higher deadzone.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

im thinking i was just having bad timing, but im still gonna screw with the deadzone

 

[Sangoku]

You can read part 2 and part 3 of this thread to understand further range, jumps, and other things.

 

[The Star King]

if you dair that means you are pressing A too early, nothing to do with settings

 

[cmu6eh]

The week before Apex I learned that you could Z-cancel with R. I knew about arials and smash attacks with R, but it wasn't until my friend said "Wow it is so much easier to Z cancel with Z than it is to Z cancel with R" that I was like WTF are you saying. Then he said he used R to "Z cancel" and I didn't believe him until I tried it. Blew my mind.

 

[The Star King]

R is just Z + A, so yeah

 

[Timotheus]

is there a manual to get the hitboxmode in pj64k? can anyone give me advice?
and does the invisible frames on a shieldjump work for every character?

 

[B Link]

early morning ssb anyone? go 2 galaxy

EDIT: ggs

 

[KnitePhox]

is there a manual to get the hitboxmode in pj64k? can anyone give me advice?
and does the invisible frames on a shieldjump work for every character?

Look in the important red post of the ssb64 discussion boards, last page I posted the hitbox saves

 

[prisonchild]

doing SH dair>uair with luigi is really easy for me, but it's heaps harder with Mario. do you guys slide from down c to A to get the dair out as fast as possible or do you still have time to press them individually? I've been trying that so far and i'm wondering if I might have to slide...

 

[asianaussie]

i always time it

make sure you're doing a standing short hop and not a running/sideways short hop

 

[AtotheZ]

can it still be done while running/sideways shorthop? I know that if you can the timing is hella tight

 

[asianaussie]

i think you can, but you can't fit a fastfall in there and the timing is indeed hella tight

 

[prisonchild]

silly me, I think I was practising them while running (like you would when you approach).


baby steps, pc. baby steps.

 

[Timotheus]

Look in the important red post of the ssb64 discussion boards, last page I posted the hitbox saves

thank you knitephox. you're the man!

 

[ballin4life]

doing SH dair>uair with luigi is really easy for me, but it's heaps harder with Mario. do you guys slide from down c to A to get the dair out as fast as possible or do you still have time to press them individually? I've been trying that so far and i'm wondering if I might have to slide...

I slide for this. I find it extremely difficult to do without sliding.

And yes, do the first dair ASAP after leaving the ground (hence sliding). Then you time the uair to execute right after the dair finishes (note that this timing is going to be different on air/shield/hit)

i always time it

make sure you're doing a standing short hop and not a running/sideways short hop

it's definitely possible from a sideways short hop but yeah pretty hard

 

[AtotheZ]

so from the ground, how many different heights can you jump? Are full hop c-stick, full hop analog, short hop c-stick, and short hop analog all different? Do running jumps shorten all of these?

Also, if the range of the stick is increased/decreased does it change the full hop height?

 

[The Star King]

so from the ground, how many different heights can you jump?

Based on the tests I just did: you need 53 upwards range minimum for a stick jump, and jump height maxes out at 79 range up (higher values do not yield a higher jump past this point). So if each range yields a different height, that's 15 different jump heights. Then there's a shorthop with a C button (which is shorter than a 53 range stick jump), and a C button shorthop while moving sideways, which totals 17 different jumps heights.

I might have messed up somewhere though.

I am assuming that a full hop with a C button (sideways or not) = some stick jump between 53 and 79.

Note: You can actually jump with a Y input less than 53 if you are going sideways and your X input is high enough (weird, X input affects minimum range needed), but a jump done like this doesn't seem to go any higher than 53 range so I disregarded it.

Are full hop c-stick, full hop analog, short hop c-stick, and short hop analog all different?

Yes. Although, keep in mind that there's no solid barrier between full hop and short hop with the analog stick, because it just goes from 53 to 79, that's all. There only is with the C button, because letting go of the C button within 4 frames (IIRC) is what results in the lower height in that case, so when it comes to the C button it's a concerete yes/no for the question "did I short hop?"

Do running jumps shorten all of these?

Yes... except full hop analog is only sort of. Going sideways naturally reduces your Y input (straight up is higher than diagonally up), BUT if your stick's Y input reaches 79 anyways you will get a full hop regardless (not sure if a N64 controller's range is high enough for this to be possible on console).

Also, if the range of the stick is increased/decreased does it change the full hop height?

Yes, but as I said, only between 53 and 79 range.

 

[Sangoku]

Based on the tests I just did

You're serious? Why did I even bother making a whole stupid thread...

 

[Yobolight]

While DIing, if you are pressing other buttons too will it weaken your DI?

For example if I am mashing A for combo interrupting Nair / Z for a tech / UpB while DIing does it weaken my DI due to the game ignoring simultaneous inputs?

From my experience I think it does, but maybe I just don't DI as hard while I am pressing other buttons.

 

[Sangoku]

No, it's the same.

 

[rjgbadger]

should i always shield drop to go through platforms? is the shield drop better than the normal drop? i'm really bad at it so far due to not practicing it

 

[Battlecow]

It's super easy (I mean it, I suck at everything and it's easy for me) and yes, you should always do it although sometimes it doesn't matter and a lot of people don't ALWAYS do it and are fine.

 

[ballin4life]

The primary benefit of shield drop is that you can do it out of a dash

People have claimed that it is faster (not sure if that is confirmed?) but if so it's not THAT much of a difference

Also if your opponent is attacking near you then it's a tactical decision between whether you'd rather get hit by their attack or shield it.

 

[The Star King]

It's 2 frames faster. Everyone made fun of me for not noticing a 1/30 second difference that only occurs if you're frame perfect (if you drop on frame 3 of shield it's the same). I guess people need some way to one-up me

 

[rjgbadger]

lol at it being 2 frames faster, melee was made the same

so perks
1 you can dash and drop
2 you dont have to crouch


cons
1 its harder to do than normal plat drop
2?

another question: you can shield drop after shield being attacked, so in theory you could counter attack from a platform if say, a falcon usmashed you through the DL plat?

 

[cmu6eh]

Isn't there also an invincibility frame when you shield drop?

 

[SuPeRbOoM]

the main reason to regular shield dropping in-place is so you don't crouch on the platform

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Maybe I'm missing something here. What is the reason that crouching is bad?

 

[C.SDK]

Maybe I'm missing something here. What is the reason that crouching is bad?

Uh, what? If you crouch first before going through the platform, you're vulnerable and it just makes your movement more slow. By shield dropping, you can fall through the platform out of a dash, and you go through the platform more quickly if you shield drop while standing. There's really no reason to not shield drop. Has anyone seen Isai do aerials with Link on the 3 platforms on Hyrule? He does them incredibly fast thanks to shield dropping.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Uh, what? If you crouch first before going through the platform, you're vulnerable and it just makes your movement more slow. By shield dropping, you can fall through the platform out of a dash, and you go through the platform more quickly if you shield drop while standing. There's really no reason to not shield drop. Has anyone seen Isai do aerials with Link on the 3 platforms on Hyrule? He does them incredibly fast thanks to shield dropping.

I understand why shield dropping is better for falling through platforms. But I don't understand why crouching is inherently bad.

Just to clear things up: Mario and Luigi are standing on the same platform. At the exact same instant, Mario shield drops and Luigi holds down to fall through the platform. Does Mario make it through the platform only 3 frames faster than Luigi? If so, I'm confused as to what makes crouching bad. Once again, I understand why shield dropping is a preferable strategy, I'm just unsure why crouching is the thing we are trying to avoid. Unless the 3 frames thing is the time it take to actually do the falling animation and there is a much larger difference in the actual time it takes from standing up for Mario and Luigi to fall through with their respective techniques.

For the record, I try to shield drop every time. I'm only trying understand this aspect of the game better

 

[TANK64]

1 you can dash and drop
2 you dont have to crouch

^^This.

another question: you can shield drop after shield being attacked, so in theory you could counter attack from a platform if say, a falcon usmashed you through the DL plat?

Too much shield stun for the proper "counter" you have in mind. If they push you off you can lol.

Of course this is with a properly angled shield, or else yo *** gettin' stabbed poked.

Isn't there also an invincibility frame when you shield drop?

For Yoshi lol. It's cool .

I understand why shield dropping is a preferable strategy, I'm just unsure why crouching is the thing we are trying to avoid.

Crouching is slow.

Also, dropping at anytime is a BIG deal, and makes shield dropping a >>> strat just by that alone.

 

[Sangoku]

For Yoshi lol. It's cool .

Only during the first frames of shield, like a normal parry.

On another note wtf is this head doing:

edit: oh and shielddrop gives a period of invincibility (might be a couple of frames, or only one I don't know), so cmu6eh is right.

 

[cmu6eh]

If you ledge cancel a shield and you get hit on the last frame the shield is out, what happens? will your shield stay out in the air?

 

[Cobrevolution]

^ i've been wondering something like that. i'll occasionally ledge cancel a shield and i'll see it pop up on my character for a split second in the air. curious if you can be hit during it.

 

[Sangoku]

If you ledge cancel a shield and you get hit on the last frame the shield is out, what happens? will your shield stay out in the air?

Why would it? It's the same as if you're shielding on a platform and you slide off from the hit (especially with Luigi). The shield is simply gone and you're in the air, without having to suffer from shieldstun. Ledge cancelling doesn't change anything. In fact ledge cancel is just a normal landing + horizontal momentum carried on that makes you fall off the platform.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Do you do single hit uairs with Fox by z-cancelling right after the first hit? I feel like someone told me that once but I'm having a hard time getting it

 

[The Star King]

Do uair right before you land so the second hit doesn't come out in time, or make it so that the second hitbox misses

 

[cmu6eh]

If i threw a chicken out of an airplane 10,000ft in the air, would it survive the fall?